# Hardware for 4k recommendation please



## mefizto (Mar 10, 2021)

Greetings all,

it appears that after my main monitor died, and I have been using a secondary one, my video card is dying too.  As I am using the computer for writing and drafting, I would like to upgrade both the video card and the monitor to 4k.

Regarding the combination, I do not play or plan to play any games, but I do watch high-resolution, high data rate movies.   I would also prefer a monitor with the least eye strain, I understand that this is achieve by high refresh rate and flicker free technology.

Any advice in this regards, including a specific card and monitor recommendation would be appreciated.  

Kindest regards,

M


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## Phishfry (Mar 10, 2021)

Do you prefer AMD or NVidia. Two different camps.

I can say for a monitor I use a 32" Vizio TV. I think TV has reached parity with computer monitors.
That is subjective.

What is your budget? I don't care but it usually guides my choices.
You want 100 dollar video card or 300 dollar card? Maybe top end at $800?

Need more details.


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## mefizto (Mar 10, 2021)

Hi Phishfry,

regarding the video card brand,I have had both.  My understanding is that Nvidia has better drivers, the problem as I see it is that the drivers are closed, thus if/when Nvidia decides that the market is not worth it, . . ..  The AMD drivers do not appear to be as good, but AMD is more open with providing information to developers.  So I really do not know.

Regarding the budget, again my understanding is that for the card, one is paying for speed needed for gaming.  As this is not my issue, any card that will satisfy the resolution and high refresh rate will be fine.  Consequently, I would shift the budget to a nice monitor.  So let us say $700-$1200 for a 27"-32" monitor.

Kindest regards,

M


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## SirDice (Mar 11, 2021)

mefizto said:


> thus if/when Nvidia decides that the market is not worth it


I've used NVidia FreeBSD drivers for the past 20 or so years. FreeBSD even has a bigger market share now. So I don't think you have to worry about this.


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## shkhln (Mar 11, 2021)

Phishfry said:


> What is your budget? I don't care but it usually guides my choices.
> You want 100 dollar video card or 300 dollar card? Maybe top end at $800?


Right now $100 cards for $800 is all you get.


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## Phishfry (Mar 11, 2021)

I can't comment any more. I do not run at 4K.

I think the question has to be asked:
Is anybody running a 4K FreeBSD desktop?


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## olli@ (Mar 11, 2021)

I've got a curved UWQHD monitor (3440 × 1440) connected to an Nvidia GeForce GT 1030 card. Works perfectly fine with FreeBSD. This is not exactly 4k, but 4k is also supported, of course (the card even has two connectors and supports 2 × 4k).

There are several vendors that offer GT 1030-based cards, mine is from MSI. They are low-power,  available with a small fan or even fanless. These are office-grade cards that also work perfectly well for video applications. Of course they decode common video codecs like h.264 and h.265 in hardware, and also scaling is done in hardware. I can play videos full-screen while the processor is nearly idle. However, these cards are _not_ suitable for high-end 3D gaming stuff (although games/crack-attack works fine in highest resolution, but I wouldn’t call this high-end).

As for the monitor, I opted for 34” UWQHD because I have limited space. I wanted the width of a 4k monitor, but I didn’t want its height, so UWQHD is perfect for me. It can display cinema movies (21:9) without any black bands. The model I have is a Samsung CF791, but there are many others.


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## mefizto (Mar 11, 2021)

Hi SirDice,

thank you for the comment re card brand.

Hi shkhln,

could you please clarify your, rather cryptic comment?

Hi olli@,

thank you for the detailed reply.  I will look for that card.

Kindest regards,

M


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## shkhln (Mar 11, 2021)

mefizto said:


> Hi shkhln,
> 
> could you please clarify your, rather cryptic comment?


What do you mean "cryptic"?


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## mefizto (Mar 11, 2021)

Hi shkhln,

the term cryptic means "having a meaning that is mysterious or obscure".  Since I am asking for an advice, it follows that I do not have much knowledge in this area.

I am not quite sure how your link showing a ~$900 clarifies your previous post.   I can post a link to a $70 card.

So, I wonder why are you responding if you are unwilling to help.

Kindest regards,

M


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## shkhln (Mar 11, 2021)

Honestly, I don't think it's possible to help you. Stay away from hardware purchases. (I wasn't even talking to you in the first place. Your question was answered previously anyway.)


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## ct85711 (Mar 11, 2021)

Well, what shkhln was meaning, is that right now graphics cards are overinflated on prices right now, due to shortages and a high demand from bitcoin miners buying the newer cards.  The ones that are available, are often sold at a over inflated prices.  As with anything, consider what kind of budget are you looking to spend around, and what are your needs.

I personally considered 4k before, but chose to go with 2k instead.  The downside of 4k that I didn't want to deal with, is that by default everything is super small (as the resolution goes up everything gets smaller).  Sure, there is the HiDPI setting, but that isn't a good solution.  The reason, is that it does not work the same way on everything; some programs it doesn't work at all.


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## mefizto (Mar 11, 2021)

Hi shklhn,

In my linked post, where do you see 4k mentioned?  And, if you were not talking to me, why post in the thread I initiated?

Hi ct85711,

thank you for the explanation.  Even considering, _arguendo_, that your interpretation is correct, how does it help me?  I need the card now or in a near future.

Kindest regards,

M


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## Argentum (Mar 11, 2021)

mefizto said:


> Any advice in this regards, including a specific card and monitor recommendation would be appreciated.


I have RX 570 card with maximum resolutions by specification DP: 7680 x 4320 and HDMI: 4096 x 3112. I do not have 4K monitor, but works fine with two HD monitors. Should be good for you. Few steps behind the latest series and not expensive these days.

Personally I prefer AMD, however used Nvidia for 10 years.


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## shkhln (Mar 11, 2021)

mefizto said:


> In my linked post, where do you see 4k mentioned?  And, if you were not talking to me, why post in the thread I initiated?


Let me spell it for you: the thread is relevant because it shows that you still haven't bought the damn card in 2 years. Otherwise you would know that any modern GPU is perfectly capable of UHD output. They also have public specs that you can read on the internet.


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## ct85711 (Mar 11, 2021)

Like Argentum mention, it just depends on how set you are on having a 4k monitor.  You could get 1-2 generation older than the newest set of cards considerably cheaper, and have 2-3 monitors for less than a newer card is going to set you back.  Like I am running a 1070 with 2 2k monitors without any difficulty (I could have ran a 3rd 2k monitor if I had desk space).  Just a quick search, if your target budget is about $1k (US) for both the card and monitor; you'll easily exceed that budget quickly to get the card alone.


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## Phishfry (Mar 11, 2021)

mefizto said:


> thank you for the detailed reply. I will look for that card.


I don't think the MSI brand is so important as they all use an NVidia reference design.
Sure some overclocked boards do deviate but most follow the reference design.
So any GT 1030 is probably OK. Do make sure it has GDDR5 as there is some cheapened versions out there with GDDR4.

Looking at newegg there does not seem to be many GT 1030 in stock. These are around 3-4 years old release.
I don't see a successor model. The next series is GT2xxx and they are costly. Heck even jump to GT 1050 is high.

So these cards do support HDMI 2.0 and should provide 4K@60FPS if I am reading the literature right.

And my old advice from that old thread still stands true.
You need to consider the VGA power connectors needed before buying.
Otherwise a power supply may be needed too. There are Molex to 6 pins commonly available though.


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## Argentum (Mar 11, 2021)

ct85711 said:


> Like Argentum mention, it just depends on how set you are on having a 4k monitor.  You could get 1-2 generation older than the newest set of cards considerably cheaper, and have 2-3 monitors for less than a newer card is going to set you back.  Like I am running a 1070 with 2 2k monitors without any difficulty (I could have ran a 3rd 2k monitor if I had desk space).  Just a quick search, if your target budget is about $1k (US) for both the card and monitor; you'll easily exceed that budget quickly to get the card alone.


And I was just looking that a brand new RX 550 with warranty is on sale for EUR 95 in the nearest computer shop. It supports 5120 x 2880 maximum resolution. I use to keep one RX 550 as a backup in my drawer. In fact it is a very good card, stable and not power hungry. There are even low profile models of RX 550 available (and passive cooling models also).


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## Phishfry (Mar 11, 2021)

ct85711 said:


> Well, what shkhln was meaning, is that right now graphics cards are overinflated on prices right now, due to shortages and a high demand from bitcoin miners buying the newer cards. The ones that are available, are often sold at a over inflated prices. As with anything, consider what kind of budget are you looking to spend around, and what are your needs.


This is right on.

I would even consider upgrading everything and use On-CPU video. AMD has a radeon right on chip.


			https://www.amd.com/en/processors/ryzen-with-graphics
		


I have no idea if the FreeBSD radeon drivers work at 4K


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## mefizto (Mar 11, 2021)

Hi shklhn,



shkhln said:


> Let me spell it for you: the thread is relevant because it shows that you still haven't bought the damn card in 2 years. Otherwise you would know that any modern GPU is perfectly capable of UHD output. They also have public specs that you can read on the internet.



Did you even read what I wrote: ". . .my video card is dying too"?  So, if I did not buy a damn card, why is it dying?

In any event, have a last word.

Hi Argentum, ct85711,

thank you for the recommendation to look at a different resolution monitor.  I was contemplating 4K monitor because I experience it at my landlord, and both the movies (blu-ray) and drafting is much nicer than my Acer AL2216W.

Hi Phisfry,

thank you for the memory recommendation.  I can always look on e-bay.

Regarding On-CPU video, this does not appear to be an option, I have a nice Supermicro/Xeon combination that works great.

Kindest regards,

M


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## shkhln (Mar 11, 2021)

mefizto said:


> Did you even read what I wrote: ". . .my video card is dying too"?  So, if I did not buy a damn card, why is it dying?


I did in fact read a few of your threads (I always do) and, _no_, "RS780 Radeon 3000" doesn't match my recommendation of < 10 years old video card (counting from 2019, of course). It doesn't match any other recommendations in the thread for that matter. You seem to take a lot of pride in having no idea what you are doing.


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## mefizto (Mar 11, 2021)

Hi shkhln,

First, I do not understand your animosity and need to use invective.

Second, the Radeon is a card a friend gave me for the interim replacement of the dying card.

Kindest regards,

M


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## olli@ (Mar 11, 2021)

Yes, indeed, prices have gone up somewhat. When I bought my GT 1030, I spent around 80 €. Right now the prices start at 100 €; I just checked some online shops in my country (Germany) that have GT 1030 based cards in stock. I have no idea how much that would be in US$ these days, though.


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## mefizto (Mar 11, 2021)

Hi olli@,

I have checked several places that allegedly have new card in stock, and the prices range from about $115 to $240.

e-bay from $34 to $300.

Kindest regards,

M


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## olli@ (Mar 12, 2021)

mefizto said:


> I have checked several places that allegedly have new card in stock, and the prices range from about $115 to $240.
> 
> e-bay from $34 to $300.


If you can get a used card for $50 or less, that would be a bargain, I think.

Make sure that the card that you buy has the appropriate connectors that you need. These cards come with different combinations of connectors. For example, some have HDMI + DVI, some have HDMI + DisplayPort, some have 2 × HDMI. There are even variants with three or just one connector, but these are rare.


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## mefizto (Mar 12, 2021)

Hi olli@,

thank you for the comment on the connectors.  I have discovered that when I was browsing the different pictures.

Kindest regards,

M


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## pi@ (Jan 1, 2022)

Phishfry said:


> Is anybody running a 4K FreeBSD desktop?


I do, using this hardware:

vgapci0@pci0:65:0:0:    class=0x030000 card=0x05211043 chip=0x67df1002 rev=0xe7 hdr=0x00
    vendor     = 'Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]'
    device     = 'Ellesmere [Radeon RX 470/480/570/570X/580/580X/590]'
    class      = display
    subclass   = VGA
    bar   [10] = type Prefetchable Memory, range 64, base 0x80000000, size 268435456, enabled
    bar   [18] = type Prefetchable Memory, range 64, base 0x90000000, size 2097152, enabled
    bar   [20] = type I/O Port, range 32, base 0x2000, size 256, enabled
    bar   [24] = type Memory, range 32, base 0x9ed00000, size 262144, enabled

and a DELL P4317Q 40" monitor with a 3840x2160 resolution.

There's one gotcha: I run it with FreeBSD 12.2 as I have not yet found a GPU that is supported with 13.0 8-(


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## Zare (Jan 1, 2022)

mefizto said:


> regarding the video card brand,I have had both.  My understanding is that Nvidia has better drivers, the problem as I see it is that the drivers are closed, thus if/when Nvidia decides that the market is not worth it



The only time nvidia let me down is when they dropped their logo display on X11 boot.

It is not that nvidia has better drivers, it does, but its not about that. It's about primary support from a hardware vendor. That relationship will soon be 20 years old.

Their effort is minimal. They have a proprietary blob, platform agnostic. The kernel module itself is just a loader (and open source). FreeBSD effort is on the kernel loader. The rest - meaning firmware and userland (X11 driver, libgl module, vulkan, nvidia-settings, etc.) are not FreeBSD specific effort. That means that a tiny fragment of the FreeBSD release is actually a FreeBSD primary effort. Which means as long as the graphics stacks of Linux and FreeBSD stay near compatible, there will be no foreseeable support issues with nvidia on FreeBSD.

So yes, if you want cutting edge discreet graphics, you can be sure that nvidia supports it here. 

However be warned that large DPI on average X11 environment is very problematic. You may have software issues and therefore I do not believe you should be asking hardware questions. Go and check out every desktop application you're using and does it honour DPI desktop settings and can it redraw itself correctly with high DPI. A lot of desktop programs from ports are unreadable on 2K and while a lot of them can scale up either by manual settings or by environment, they don't look good. 

So recheck your software and be sure that nvidia can drive any kind of monitor on FreeBSD.


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## astyle (Jan 2, 2022)

Phishfry said:


> I don't think the MSI brand is so important as they all use an NVidia reference design


Not true, MSI has plenty of AMD cards.
As for monitors, TV's are getting cheaper and cheaper, but GPU prices are only climbing up. These days, you can get a 40 inch TV for about $300 USD (and even cheaper if you shop around). But for a decent GPU - $500 USD is rock bottom, even for used/old ones. An unfortunate reality of the GPU market. 
pi@ : Given the class of your GPU:
[QUOTE user=pi@]
vendor     = 'Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI]'
device     = 'Ellesmere [Radeon RX 470/480/570/570X/580/580X/590]'
[/QUOTE]
I'd think that it's not impossible to upgrade to 13-RELEASE - I have a Radeon RX 550 4 GB card running 13-RELEASE.


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## shkhln (Jan 2, 2022)

Zare said:


> Their effort is minimal. They have a proprietary blob, platform agnostic. The kernel module itself is just a loader (and open source).


This is neither technically correct nor close to the ground truth.



Zare said:


> Which means as long as the graphics stacks of Linux and FreeBSD stay near compatible, there will be no foreseeable support issues with nvidia on FreeBSD.


Well, in common usage "the Linux graphics stack" means things Nvidia doesn't want to implement, like DRI.


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## Zare (Jan 2, 2022)

shkhln said:


> This is neither technically correct nor close to the ground truth.



Of course a kmod needs to do more than that. It's not meant to be technically correct, it to provide info to poster in simple format who believes that nvidia could drop support for FreeBSD. It's meant to be hyperbole, which I believe conveys the ground truth - there's 15k LOC in nvidia-driver src as opposed to 90 MB of delivered libs.

The point isn't what it does or doesn't, its about the size of platform specific part and the effort needed to maintain it. 

My theory is that nvidia's FreeBSD marked might be small in absolute numbers but the effort behind it is even smaller. So one should not bother with "low market share" predictions of doom.



shkhln said:


> Well, in common usage "the Linux graphics stack" means things Nvidia doesn't want to implement, like DRI.



You are correct. It's about userspace libs developed mostly for GNU/Linux environment. I don't think Xorg or Mesa guys care what happens with FreeBSD per se, their reference platform is GNU/Linux.


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## shkhln (Jan 2, 2022)

Zare said:


> It's meant to be hyperbole, which I believe conveys the ground truth - there's 15k LOC in nvidia-driver src as opposed to 90 MB of delivered libs.


And what about src/nvidia/nvidia.ko?


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## Zare (Jan 2, 2022)

I don't understand why the question. If you're steering into discussing about what nv-kernel.o does than I don't know and I'm not sure it has been fully reversed. The analysis several years old had compared Windows, Linux and Solaris stub and the claim was that the kernel blob is largely the same thus the platform agnostic part.


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## shkhln (Jan 2, 2022)

Analysis? I don't the think the Windows driver is that similar, actually. Anyway, the point is that the driver is not open-source, it's not at all minimal and while the shim part is rather small, we don't know for sure there isn't any OS-specific conditional logic in the blob (there bound to be at least a few fallbacks here and there), so it's not appropriate for us to speculate how difficult or easy would be for Nvidia to keep the FreeBSD support in shape.


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