# Can Linux keep growing?



## kr651129 (Jun 22, 2012)

The older Linux gets the more popular it has become but it's been getting slower from what I've seen.  Do you think that Linux can continue the direction it's been headed without turning into Microsoft v2?


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## vermaden (Jun 22, 2012)

Yes.


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## kr651129 (Jun 22, 2012)

I don't think it can, there is way to much software from way to many sources and I think sooner or later we'll see a break down of linux.


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## gkontos (Jun 22, 2012)

It has already taken the Microsoft avenue...


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## kr651129 (Jun 22, 2012)

gkontos said:
			
		

> It has already taken the Microsoft avenue...



Explain, I'd like to know why you feel this way.


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## Grell (Jun 23, 2012)

I see Linux and open source in general growing by leaps and bounds in the years to come.  Whether it be Linux (most likely, especially for those straight from Windows) in the form of Ubuntu or Fedora or some of the BSDs.  I think more and more people continue to be fed up with windows.  The thing is though that so many of them turn to Apple and Apple's kernel is BSD-based.  I think as Linux gets easier to use, more people will discover it.  Word of mouth will be how Linux grows obviously not through advertisements.  The newer distros coming out these days make the learning curve from windows to Linux much less substantial.


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## gkontos (Jun 23, 2012)

kr651129 said:
			
		

> Explain, I'd like to know why you feel this way.



First let me clarify that I am talking about server tailored OS. Unlike FreeBSD, Linux is being distributed as either Desktop or Server version. Desktop versions are carrying bleeding edge kernels and software, which eventually will mature and move on to production. Desktop versions IMHO are far less stable than FreeBSD CURRENT.  

Currently there are 2 major players in Linux. RedHat and Canonical. 

RedHat has a very clear policy, pay and you get the software. Canonical is a bit more flexible but still you can see that for enterprise usage you will eventually need a license.

The other distributions are just following the lead.


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## hitest (Jun 23, 2012)

Yes.


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## drhowarddrfine (Jun 24, 2012)

Since it is Unix like, and Unix is designed for professionals, it must develop an interface for the average user if it wants to attract them, much like Macs have done.


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## asapilu (Jun 24, 2012)

Not in the desktop market.


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## Crivens (Jun 24, 2012)

I think it will diverge some more, and someday the friction between the distros will be similar to the friction we now have between Linux and other Unix (like)-OSes. We have seen the Linux-only development way, now some things start being specific for one distro (upstart .vs. systemd f.e.) and since packages of applications need to interface with it in some cases we may see the applications diverge as we see the drivers for Xorg today.

Then someday will come the day when there are real forks from the kernel, and they will diverge until no code can be shared easily. There will always be something there to continue, but it will no more be Linux-as-we-know-it as the modern man is the same as the version from 1 million years ago, or will be in one million years.

This is evolution, but sometimes evolution creates things which cannot continue (see sabre tooth tiger), and then it is time to re-format and re-install.


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## anomie (Jun 24, 2012)

kr651129 said:
			
		

> The older Linux gets the more popular it has become but it's been getting slower from what I've seen.



Does Android count? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)



> For the first quarter of 2012, Android had a 59% smartphone market share worldwide, with a 331 million devices installed base and 85 million activations or 934,000 per day.


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## throAU (Jun 25, 2012)

anomie said:
			
		

> Does Android count?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)




Nope, Android isn't exactly Linux.

For what it's worth, I think eventually someone in the Linux camp will realise what OS X is and attempt to replicate it properly (not just the graphical fluff).  The Gnome/KDE stuff is just a diversion.  Someone needs to kick-start GNUStep development in a big way.


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## expl (Jun 25, 2012)

When at least 99% of game developers start releasing native ports of their games for Linux (not Wine wrappers), Linux can and probably will overtake Windows in the desktop market. Until then I don't see it happening, Microsoft knows it and supports/encourages graphic engine developers to use DirectX that is not portable to Linux unless ran through Wine translator. Also high-end gaming hardware is lagging months behind Windows drivers, that does not improve the situation.

P.S.
A lot of new games are written entirely or partly in .NET 3.0<. Parts of it will never be ported or will take very long time to be ported to Mono, particularly graphic APIs tiesd to DirectX features.


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## throAU (Jun 25, 2012)

^^ by the same token, there are plenty of games being written for Nintendo, PS3, and also ported to Mac lately that are not DirectX or .NET based, but use OpenGL.  These could be ported.


But Linus' refusal to have a stable driver ABI is only killing 3d hardware support.


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## UNIXgod (Jun 25, 2012)

When steam has a port it will be interesting. It will be left to the game developers to deal with creating portable software or not. 

Here is left 4 dead running on linux with steam:

http://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=valve_linux_dampfnudeln&image=valve_linux_l4d24_show&w=1920


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## sossego (Jun 26, 2012)

kr651129 said:
			
		

> The older Linux gets the more popular it has become but it's been getting slower from what I've seen.  Do you think that Linux can continue the direction it's been headed without turning into Microsoft v2?



The reasons that Linux distributions are slow are:

The system has a kernel with a low hertz rate.
Installing multiple desktops will result in applications for one- say KDE4- to be running while you are logged in to another- say GNOME2.
With Redhat's Fedora and Canonical's Ubuntu, one is given an instant yet bloated system complete with Desktop.
Linux is an option that frees many companies from dependency on Microsoft.


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## throAU (Jun 26, 2012)

The other reason Linux is getting slower and more on par with Windows, etc. is because it is becoming feature comparable.

Features don't come for free, and if you compare the feature set of say, a 1995 distribution running FVWM to a 2012 distribution running KDE, the feature set is vastly different.  Ditto for comparing the 1995 distribution to Windows 95.


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## SR_Ind (Jul 1, 2012)

expl said:
			
		

> When at least 99% of game developers start releasing native ports of their games for Linux



Would game developers write their applications for a broken graphical system?  



			
				throAU said:
			
		

> The other reason Linux is getting slower and more on par with Windows, etc. is because it is becoming feature comparable.


Windows deliver*s* more features (in order of magnitudes) per LOC. The chief culprits are: 

the GPL license of the Linux -  It*'*s not possible to incorporate code from another library to cover the last 5% features of your application. You have to use it as a whole at the minimum (provided it is LGPL). If your app has many such 5% chunks, it is a sure way to bloatware. Alternatively, write a from the ground up implementation which requires funding
Lack of software development discipline - Why should I share my disk space with Perl and Python just to get the xserver running? This happened because some genius thought it to be a smart move to get some string parsing done via Perl. My reading of xorg sources tell me that Perl is only required during the first time configuration. Any developer with some semblance of professionalism would write that routine in plain C inside the xserver code itself
Non-existent package management - In every Linux distro there's some kind of meta package (xorg drivers for example) which would install stuff that you don't need. If you remove useless stuff the package manager do*es*n't take it too kindly, it will remove the meta package itself along with a host of other components.

There are many more.

[*] [*] [*]


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## FIlIPy65 (Jul 1, 2012)

I think that not so much, for many reasons (some posted here).

Linux has grown and can keep growing in the enterprise world. Small businesses saving with software, corporations wanting their own system or a secure and trusted system, and so on.

In the desktop world it's a little complicated. I think Haiku can grow so much than Linux on soon future. _[What? -- Mod]_

Some thoughts. :x


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