# What you've all been waiting for: UbuntuBSD



## cbrace (Mar 20, 2016)

UbuntuBSD Brings Ubuntu Atop The FreeBSD Kernel

OK, let's have a show of hands:


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## MarcoB (Mar 20, 2016)

The big question is why?


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## cbrace (Mar 20, 2016)

I was wondering the same thing.

To run Unity?

LOL


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## MarcoB (Mar 20, 2016)

Could be, but then better port just Unity (I actually quite like Unity).


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## getopt (Mar 20, 2016)

> What you've all been waiting for: UbuntuBSD


I do not like this kind of infringing marketing approach. I'm not "all" and I do not wait for anything like Ubuntu.



> How many of you will be deleting FreeBSD and installing this?


I'm not that insane jumping on everything in front of me. 

The FreeBSD kernel we are proud of. But the kernel is only a part of FreeBSD. FreeBSD is more than the sum of its parts.

But there might be a reason deleting FreeBSD: If once upon a time FreeBSD gets a systemd, which I do not hope that this will happen.

See also this, when an OS becomes an adversary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_(operating_system)#Amazon_controversy No one is waiting for such.


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## scottro (Mar 20, 2016)

It's running XFCE if you follow the link a bit
I don't think the OP thinks anyone will be deleting FreeBSD, but it looks a bit interesting. I doubt it will have any more success than the other ones mentioned.


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## ronaldlees (Mar 20, 2016)

getopt said:


> I do not like this kind of infringing marketing approach. I'm not "all" and I do not wait for anything like Ubuntu.



+1

Is the BSD part trademarked by itself? Or not? I dunno.  But "Ubuntu" is the whole word (or acronym).   I don't know how a certain university in South Cali or Ubuntu might view that sort of thing. Can parts of other's TM be combined with other stuff and then it doesn't matter?  Again - I've no clue.  Maybe the TM holders don't care if it's completely non-commercial.


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## ronaldlees (Mar 20, 2016)

My view is US centric.  That could play a part, I suppose.


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## sidetone (Mar 20, 2016)

I almost thought it was trolling or a flamewar, until I noticed it was a BSD. This is good, actually. GNU programs need it's own BSD to focus on, because it has different goals from FreeBSD. However, I don't like the implication that we would rush out of here, from one of the BSD's that started the basis for a type of good Operating System.


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## scottro (Mar 20, 2016)

Do you honestly think the OP really thought that was a serious option--that someone will see this, say woo-hoo in a Homer Simpson tone, then delete their current BSD installs to install this? I  really feel they were phrasingg it that way to be a bit tongue-in-cheek.  (If there are any non-native English speakers missing any of these references, my point is just that I don't think the original poster really thinks that people will abandon FreeBSD for this.)

I wish them luck. I don't know if Ubuntu will ask them to call it something else, but it might.  I think there are restrictions on the use of the name, which is reasonable, IMHO. 
(The joke for those who haven't heard it, is that Ubuntu is an African word--I forget which language--that translates as, "I can't configure Debian." )

Which is an unfair joke, especially considering that its accessibility has helped, IMHO, hardware  and software vendors start paying more attention to open source, which should, generally, help the BSDs as well.


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## sidetone (Mar 20, 2016)

scottro said:


> Do you honestly think the OP really thought that was a serious option--that someone will see this, say woo-hoo in a Homer Simpson tone, then delete their current BSD installs to install this?



There are eccentric users from the GNU or Linux community who do act like that, and there are many in the forums recently, who behave like that. No serious FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, DragonFlyBSD, Minix user would do that, and of course I know this. Your tone is condescending and an insult that doesn't have relevance. Furthermore, you've already admitted you're unsure of the person's reason for posting it, possibly unless you search their user history, which I look at the posts' content. So if that's the case, it's still a troll or a flamewar.


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## Crivens (Mar 20, 2016)

I'll wait a bit and see if this is some serious project. Or maybe it's an Aprils Fools Prank, launched a bit early? Time will tell. And if it is an earnest project, it may well absorb the Linux-systemd-expats. Who knows?


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## hitest (Mar 20, 2016)

Interesting.  I will wait and see if it gains traction.


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## scottro (Mar 20, 2016)

sidetone, if you thought I was attempting to flame, I most sincerely apologize. I thought that putting in a smiling emoticon type thing would have been patronizing.  If you thought that my comments to non-native speakers were nasty or sarcastic, I am married to a non-native speaker who will sometimes misunderstand things, just as I do in her language.   Therefore, I added that part.  

So, if I did anger you, in this case, I most sincerely apologize, it was not meant to be anything but lighthearted, and quite honestly, it never occurred to me that the OP meant the whole get rid of FreeBSD and jump on the band wagon aspect thing could be considered as a serious possibility. 
That apology goes to anyone else who felt that I was writing to insult anyone.


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## sidetone (Mar 20, 2016)

I thought the top thread was a flame war, trolling, or Ubuntu fanaticism. I also thought you were insulting me, for taking the post and poll seriously.


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## forquare (Mar 20, 2016)

It's an interesting experiment, but as the article states it has been done before and has slowly been left to die before…

I wish them luck, perhaps the Ubuntu brand will sway a few Linux kernel users to switch to the FreeBSD kernel.
If that entices people to write more BSD friendly drivers, etc, that might be beneficial to existing FreeBSD users too!
That said, I shan't be switching


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## zspider (Mar 20, 2016)

Crivens said:


> And if it is an earnest project, it may well absorb the Linux-systemd-expats. Who knows?



Exactly what I was thinking and hope it is. A veritable pleasure island(see Pinocchio)  of sorts for them.


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## tingo (Mar 20, 2016)

Crivens said:


> I'll wait a bit and see if this is some serious project. Or maybe it's an Aprils Fools Prank, launched a bit early? Time will tell. And if it is an earnest project, it may well absorb the Linux-systemd-expats. Who knows?


That was my thought too - early April Fools prank. We'll just have to wait and see.


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## ctaranotte (Mar 21, 2016)

The first and compelling question is if this OS has systemd (seemingly no)

The second compelling question is why they have ditched the Linux kernel notwithstanding some phobia of systemd or Linus Torvalds.

The third compelling question is why Ubuntu has taken Debian further in that direction notwithstanding some phobia of systemd or Linus Torvalds.

The fourth compelling question is what´s next. Ubuntu/Debian based on FreeBSD kernel plus FreeBSD userland less FreeBSD doc?


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## da1 (Mar 21, 2016)

My initial reaction is reflected by the current stats of the polls.


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## Maxnix (Mar 21, 2016)

> What you've all been waiting for: UbuntuBSD


Blasphemy... Pure blasphemy. 
I switched to FreeBSD because I didn't want to use such bloated monsters! 



Crivens said:


> I'll wait a bit and see if this is some serious project. Or maybe it's an Aprils Fools Prank, launched a bit early? Time will tell.


Indeed. It's plausible.



Crivens said:


> And if it is an earnest project, it may well absorb the Linux-systemd-expats. Who knows?


I would have some reserves about this. Usually people that cares about the Init system used are experts that prefer more "advanced" OSes.

EDIT: And let's consider that the average user don't care too much about OS internals, and the lack of drivers for new devices not yet supported by the FreeBSD kernel could slow down the adoption of this OS . Or, and I want to be optimistic, more people will care about porting/writing drivers for FreeBSD.


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## Maxnix (Mar 21, 2016)

According to the project page on SourceForge:


> _Features_
> 
> Versatile text based installer
> Xfce desktop included
> ...


So, Unity should not be included at the moment. Seems just a porting of Ubuntu userland on FreeBSD kernel, just like Debian/kFreeBSD. Notihing more, nothing less.


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## sk8harddiefast (Mar 21, 2016)

Ha ha. This is a nice joke. Another useless "distro" that believes that FreeBSD user is Ubuntu user and tries to do things simpler by doing them more complex combining Ubuntu, Debian, FreeBSD and zfs all in one? WTF???? Are you serious? Why do that?


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## scottro (Mar 21, 2016)

I suppose that question could be asked of a bunch of open source projects.  They're describing it as escape from systemd, so perhaps that's their motive. 

It's just interesting that this one is getting a lot of press for some reason, I've seen mention on Distrowatch, Slashdot, and I think the OP linked to Phoronix.  I don't recollect any of the other ones generating a lot of attention.


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## Maxnix (Mar 21, 2016)

scottro said:


> I suppose that question could be asked of a bunch of open source projects.  They're describing it as escape from systemd, so perhaps that's their motive.
> 
> It's just interesting that this one is getting a lot of press for some reason, I've seen mention on Distrowatch, Slashdot, and I think the OP linked to Phoronix.  I don't recollect any of the other ones generating a lot of attention.


IMHO it's because, instead of being the usual Linux-based fork, it is based on a BSD kernel. A lot of people seem to consider BSDs as strange exotic stuff. And, being Ubuntu involved, this attracts even the attention of a lot of Linux newbies/zealots (always IMHO).


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## SirDice (Mar 21, 2016)

All I can think about is an influx of UbuntuBSD users asking for support here


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## drhowarddrfine (Mar 21, 2016)

Aw, crap. Hadn't thought about that.


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## kpedersen (Mar 21, 2016)

Maybe, just maybe there could be a benefit here.

Perhaps some pretty standard software but with a very badly written (ubuntu only) build system could be built on UbuntuBSD but then the binaries copied to a FreeBSD host?

... Nah


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## wblock@ (Mar 21, 2016)

We would handle this the same was as with other FreeBSD-derived systems.  Even better, "no, we can't help with questions about the package management on UbuntuBSD, but have you considered the many advantages of running native FreeBSD?"


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## MarcoB (Mar 21, 2016)

scottro said:


> I suppose that question could be asked of a bunch of open source projects.  They're describing it as escape from systemd, so perhaps that's their motive.


That's understandable, but I'd expect these projects to look at something like Slackware first. Switching to a BSD seems a lot harder to me.


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## roddierod (Mar 22, 2016)

kpedersen said:


> Maybe, just maybe there could be a benefit here.
> 
> Perhaps some pretty standard software but with a very badly written (ubuntu only) build system could be built on UbuntuBSD but then the binaries copied to a FreeBSD host?
> 
> ... Nah



It briefly crossed my mind (and I was just waking up) but could Canonical have the name recognition or power to get vendor to create FreeBSD specific drivers?


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## protocelt (Mar 22, 2016)

roddierod said:


> It briefly crossed my mind (and I was just waking up) but could Canonical have the name recognition or power to get vendor to create FreeBSD specific drivers?


Possibly, but since this isn't a Canonical project I can't see that happening here. 

If Canonical were to become interested in this though for whatever reason, that could be a possibility I would think.


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## Crivens (Mar 22, 2016)

If Canonical becomes interested enough into *BSD (as "any" BSD) to supply it with manpower to have the latest gimmicks ported, provide steering personel and enrich the user experience then the day will come closer where we need to decide if we want this to happen or if we need flaming torches and pitchforks.


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## DutchDaemon (Mar 22, 2016)

I have updated the information in Thread 7290.


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## zspider (Mar 23, 2016)

Crivens said:


> If Canonical becomes interested enough into *BSD (as "any" BSD) to supply it with manpower to have the latest gimmicks ported, provide steering personel and enrich the user experience then the day will come closer where we need to decide if we want this to happen or if we need flaming torches and pitchforks.



We will have to revolt for sure. There's plenty of projects out there that already do those things. This doesn't need to be another one.




DutchDaemon said:


> I have updated the information in Thread 7290.



Basically, "UbuntuBSD" is not allowed in the house, leave it outside! Fine by me.


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## PacketMan (Mar 23, 2016)

wblock@ said:


> We would handle this the same was as with other FreeBSD-derived systems.  Even better, "no, we can't help with questions about the package management on UbuntuBSD, but have you considered the many advantages of running native FreeBSD?"



Exactly.  When the questions and asks for help land on this forum I would say "you're on the bridge and have come half way, why not complete the journey and come all the way over". 

Seriously, I think this can be a great opportunity for FreeBSD and its community, if the community handles and 'markets' it the right way.


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## Maxnix (Mar 23, 2016)

zspider said:


> Basically, "UbuntuBSD" is not allowed in the house, leave it outside! Fine by me.


Exactly. This is *Free*BSD, not *Ubuntu*BSD (or any other FreeBSD derivative). I think (or, at least, hope) Ubuntu Linux folks don't ask for support on Debian forums, so why they should ask here for UbuntuBSD?
Even wanting to help, if someone can't solve his problems due to the different implementations, could even blame and criticize us to not being helpful. No, thanks; this is a reason to address problems to the right support channels.


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## drhowarddrfine (Mar 23, 2016)

Agree. Leave them that note but it's considered off topic here and should be closed.


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## hitest (Mar 23, 2016)

drhowarddrfine said:


> Agree. Leave them that note but it's considered off topic here and should be closed.


If an ubuntuBSD user posts technical questions about how to solve problems with their operating system then it should indeed be closed.  However, a general discussion about a BSD should be permitted in the off topic section in my opinion.


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## SirDice (Mar 23, 2016)

Maxnix said:


> I think (or, at least, hope) Ubuntu Linux folks don't ask for support on Debian forums, so why they should ask here for UbuntuBSD?


Because we've already had quite a few people asking for help on Debian GNU/kFreeBSD. So it's not unthinkable it's going to happen.


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## DutchDaemon (Mar 23, 2016)

hitest said:


> If an ubuntuBSD user posts technical questions about how to solve problems with their operating system then it should indeed be closed.  However, a general discussion about a BSD should be permitted in the off topic section in my opinion.



That is not a problem, of course.


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## Maxnix (Mar 23, 2016)

SirDice said:


> Because we've already had quite a few people asking for help on Debian GNU/kFreeBSD. So it's not unthinkable it's going to happen.


Yup, I know.  What I meant was: if they are not allowed to post Ubuntu specific topics on Debian forums, then why they should be allowed to do it here?


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## cbrace (Mar 23, 2016)

Hi all,

I didn't mean to post this as either flamebait or trolling. Obviously I was being sarcastic when I suggested in the poll that anyone would simply "delete" FreeBSD 

I love FreeBSD, but I also like Linux Mint a lot, which is based, as you all know, on Ubuntu. I installed Mint a few days ago on a 2nd hand MacBook Air and the process was flawless. Everything. Just. Worked.

What might UbuntuFreeBSD have to offer that the main Ubuntu distro doesn't? That's what I haven't quite figured out yet. Your thoughts?


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## Maxnix (Mar 23, 2016)

Well, it should offer everything that FreeBSD can. The first that come in mind is ZFS... I don't know about jails and bhyve, hovewer.
EDIT. Apart being a rock solid unix system, you know.


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## ANOKNUSA (Mar 24, 2016)

Maxnix said:


> Well, it should offer everything that FreeBSD can.



How can it do that if they're only swapping out the stuff necessary to get the kernel working? It's still the GNU userland, with the system constructed in the GNU way. And since we're talking about Ubuntu here, how long will anyone stick with it after realizing they can't get complete EXT4 or LVM or dmcrypt support? Ubuntu is designed to be the Linux distro for the non-technical to moderately technical user. It's users aren't liable to learn a whole bunch of new stuff just to get away from systemd. I'd bet the majority of them don't really care about systemd.

What's more, it seems to me that it's a disservice to basically market *BSD as "Linux with a different kernel and no systemd." It's free code---you can do whatever you want with it. I encourage people to do cool stuff with it. But a project like UbuntuBSD can't give anyone an accurate impression of what *BSD actually is.


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## Maxnix (Mar 24, 2016)

ANOKNUSA said:


> How can it do that if they're only swapping out the stuff necessary to get the kernel working?


According to the project page there is "ZFS support completely integrated", I hope that is not a ZFS-on-Linux implementation. However, I don't know how many things they could have removed.



ANOKNUSA said:


> And since we're talking about Ubuntu here, how long will anyone stick with it after realizing they can't get complete EXT4 or LVM or dmcrypt support?


Personally I would not care of EXT4 with ZFS (I don't know dmcrypt, but if GELI has not been removed could replace it?). Moreover, I would consider this: how long will anyone stick with it after realizing they can't get all the drivers for the latest hardware they had with Linux?



ANOKNUSA said:


> Ubuntu is designed to be the Linux distro for the non-technical to moderately technical user.


Moderately technical? The last time I looked at Ubuntu, it seemed all but targeted to more experienced users.



ANOKNUSA said:


> I'd bet the majority of them don't really care about systemd.


IMHO you'd win. The majority of them probably not even know what generally an Init system is.



ANOKNUSA said:


> What's more, it seems to me that it's a disservice to basically market *BSD as "Linux with a different kernel and no systemd."


These would just be marketing BSs, in case. I would not pay too much attention to them. Serious and competent people (or serious newcomers) know (or will learn) what really *BSD OSes are.



ANOKNUSA said:


> But a project like UbuntuBSD can't give anyone an accurate impression of what *BSD actually is.


This is few but sure! Such an "hybrid" OS, can't give the idea of what a real, pure Unix system is.


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## RJVB (May 27, 2016)

Maxnix said:


> According to the project page there is "ZFS support completely integrated", I hope that is not a ZFS-on-Linux implementation.



Unlikely as ZoL is for Linux (= the linux kernel).



> Such an "hybrid" OS, can't give the idea of what a real, pure Unix system is.



What's a "real, pure Unix system", nowadays?

I think the project could lead to an interesting alternative OS/distribution. Not to start any flame wars, but it kind of evokes the Mac OS X background for me, esp. supposing it's straightforward to install a full-fledged KDE desktop environment on UbuntuBSD.

I presume that having a GNU userland should make it easier to install applications that exist for Linux but not *BSD (Google Chrome ...  ) while possibly still reaping the benefits of better performance and memory management that you're supposed to get with FreeBSD (no overcommit/OOK killers)?

I've been wondering myself how feasible it would be to install Debian's kFreeBSD kernel as an alternative boot option on a Kubuntu system for which I have quite a few PPAs of my own by now (and which runs off a ZFS pool).


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