# FreeBSD as replacement for Android for devices?



## Spartrekus (May 28, 2019)

Hello,

I am surprised that free OS are choosing Android, and sometimes they make the adaptation.
Android is cheap, simple and available.

However FreeBSD is just better and also, it has an enormous advantage: it respects user data and their privacy (without spying).

example:



> *Android Open Source Project*
> Wait? AOSP? I thought the device is run by an OS called KaiOS. If you take a look at the Gonk layer of the KaiOS Architecture, you will recognize that there is indeed a lot of Android build into it. This is actually no surprize as the SoCs manufacturer qualcomm basically provides Android systems for their devices via Codeaurora.
> Using some of the Android functionalities saves a lot of money, as KaiOS can just reuse existing hardware bindings and just wrap those.
> I do not know, how exactly KaiOS is compiled but I would also guess that it is build from a AOSP alike source tree, as Google basically provides a somewhat messy but quite function build environment that does a lot of things like packing and signing images on its own and I would say that it does it quite well, if you know what you are doing and are reading the documentation.


ex: kaios




_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ark1mMUWniE_


What about FreeBSD as a replacement for Android, to be intended to mobile devices ? Would you be happy to have FreeBSD instead of Android?

Best regards


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## tingo (May 31, 2019)

Where would you find all the people required for the multi-year effort required only for the hardware and driver part of such a project?
As you know, FreeBSD barely has enough developers to support current efforts on the currently supported hardware platforms.
Wishing is fun, but it doesn't magically turn into real projects.


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## Lamia (May 31, 2019)

Long live component-based Linux like Android.
Best phone remains Nokia N900. We don't the manpower yet.


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## BSD User (May 31, 2019)

I'm happy with my iPhone which contains elements borrowed from FreeBSD


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## ShelLuser (May 31, 2019)

Don't think this would ever become a liable alternative. The competition is simply too solid and the demand too great.

At best you would have to be Android compatible so that users can continue using the apps they're used to. But...  then I have to ask myself: why would I want to run a clone when the real deal does everything I need?

Even if you don't like Google...  I am _very_ sceptic about Google and have very little trust in them. But I also have to admit that they're providing a lot of good stuff on Android. Heck, I basically replaced most system apps with (mostly Microsoft) alternatives and as a result my phone could be considered to be a "Windows Phone clone".  My launcher, my mail app, the browser, my office apps... It's all Microsoft and fully compatible (and connectible) with my Windows 10 setup.

Why would I want to switch to another OS? Just because it's FreeBSD? I love FreeBSD, but no way that I would put it on my phone if that also means that I'd have to say goodbye to all the stuff I currently use here. I need access to online banking, my stocks portfolio, OneNote and all the other apps I'm using. And something tells me they won't support a new OS "just like that".


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## xtremae (May 31, 2019)

Although i don't have/use a smartphone (I just use a dumb phone), I do use a tablet. It runs AOSP with F-droid and there are no google services, apps, playstore, micro-g, etc installed on the device. At this point, I'm mostly concerned about the proprietary firmware that ships with the device, which is also the case with any desktop/laptop that runs FreeBSD or any other OS.


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## Spartrekus (May 31, 2019)

tingo said:


> Where would you find all the people required for the multi-year effort required only for the hardware and driver part of such a project?
> As you know, FreeBSD barely has enough developers to support current efforts on the currently supported hardware platforms.
> Wishing is fun, but it doesn't magically turn into real projects.



By big companies, starting thinking of important ideas and using these logos on their OS products or software's :
1) respect of freedom,
2) respect of opensource usage, using only open source free software only,
3) respect of data and privacy of users, without google spying and data usage, without any kind of spying and login requirements, respect of being anonymous, without login obligation.

thus, 3 logos, at least:

1) Live Free or Die : Rule #1, respect freedom.






2) Open Source, with code : Rule #2, respect of source code transparency.
    "Open source will be always a win."




3) Anti ads and anti spying: Rule #3, respect of user privacy.
anti login, anti ads, anti location tracking, anti audio listening, anti user picture analysis,... anti google, facebook,... user data spying and stealing.


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## aragats (May 31, 2019)

ShelLuser said:


> Don't think this would ever become a liable alternative. The competition is simply too solid and the demand too great.


Exactly! Blackberry is a good example. It died, couldn't compete, although they implemented Android player in QNX. I used it for several years, but then they simply weren't able to support new features Android added, thus less and less supported applications and people turned away from it. Blackberry is officially discontinued, the brand name is licensed to a Chinese Android phone manufacturer.


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## tingo (May 31, 2019)

Big companies with altruistic motives - no, that is another (unrealistic) dream. All big companies started out small, and some of todays biggest companies started with some really good ideas and motives; yet all we read about today is how they struggle to keep themselves on the (very narrow) right path.
Why is that?
Once a company becomes big enough, the only important goals are:
1) preserve or grow their position in the market (or expand to more markets)
2) to achieve goal number 1, earn more money

Sad, but true.


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## Spartrekus (May 31, 2019)

tingo said:


> Big companies with altruistic motives - no, that is another (unrealistic) dream. All big companies started out small, and some of todays biggest companies started with some really good ideas and motives; yet all we read about today is how they struggle to keep themselves on the (very narrow) right path.
> Why is that?
> Once a company becomes big enough, the only important goals are:
> 1) preserve or grow their position in the market (or expand to more markets)
> ...


this principle is a short term practice ; for a long term, it can destabilize our society and it does not allow economic stability and growth, better education, more knowledge, more funds for scientific e.g. medical research,... (i.e. for a long term), happiness and more freedom. A short term goal funded on profit only, supported by govs, is not what our society should first aim.


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## kpedersen (May 31, 2019)

I must admit, I don't quite get this thread. I am using FreeBSD as an alternative to Android on this device to write this very post. The device is pretty good, has a large screen and a keyboard attached to it.

I am assuming you are referring to a specific device known as a smart phone. The term smart phone is now being a bit misused like the term PC means "Windows PC". Smart phones these days specifically means Android or iOS; so no, I do not expect to see FreeBSD running on these platforms.

Basically, to solve your problem, buy a decent small form factor laptop like a Thinkpad x-series, install FreeBSD on it and call it a smart phone.


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## Spartrekus (May 31, 2019)

kpedersen said:


> I must admit, I don't quite get this thread. I am using FreeBSD as an alternative to Android on this device to write this very post. The device is pretty good, has a large screen and a keyboard attached to it.
> 
> I am assuming you are referring to a specific device known as a smart phone. The term smart phone is now being a bit misused like the term PC means "Windows PC". Smart phones these days specifically means Android or iOS; so no, I do not expect to see FreeBSD on a platform that explicitly states a specific operating system.
> 
> Basically, to solve your problem, buy a decent small form factor laptop like a Thinkpad x-series, install FreeBSD on it and call it a smart phone.



the small device is good, actually there are fair smarphones, that could work with FreeBSD, instead of a google android stuff/pain again.

https://www.fairphone.com/


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## unitrunker (Jun 1, 2019)

The link above points to a device with all Qualcomm parts. Qualcomm would need to be willing to disclose enough information to make it work. The other alternative would be Huawei. 

If a reputable kernel dev (or devs) offered to do the work, I'd gladly contribute to crowdfund the effort. It would need clear goals - like raise X dollars to support Y chipset by vendor Z who has signed off on providing the details - possibly under NDA. As a compromise, you might have to accept a binary blob as part of the release. For this to work - you need the right people and go about it in pragmatic (rather than dogmatic) way.


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## Spartrekus (Jun 1, 2019)

unitrunker said:


> The link above points to a device with all Qualcomm parts. Qualcomm would need to be willing to disclose enough information to make it work. The other alternative would be Huawei.
> 
> If a reputable kernel dev (or devs) offered to do the work, I'd gladly contribute to crowdfund the effort. It would need clear goals - like raise X dollars to support Y chipset by vendor Z who has signed off on providing the details - possibly under NDA. As a compromise, you might have to accept a binary blob as part of the release. For this to work - you need the right people and go about it in pragmatic (rather than dogmatic) way.



Maybe we can contact them, and tell them in an nice, gentle email, that they would benefit of a logo - stating that they support opensource community and FreeBSD. We can easily make a logo.
They can significantly increase their marketing potential, with this logo, and stick it on they boxing.

Besides, they would not have Android, which looks actually not coherent at all. Android != Fair, whatever it is ;  They make good Joke !


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## CoTones (Jun 1, 2019)

There is already iPhone. What part of "FreeBSD is for servers..." you didn't understand?


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## Spartrekus (Jun 1, 2019)

CoTones said:


> There is already iPhone. What part of "FreeBSD is for servers..." you didn't understand?



I do understand that iPhone has BSD in it.
Doubts about iPhone, although it has Freebsd, it is only with providing your CB bank account nbr, right during the first use...

Unix - it is fair for all, not only users, but I guess that it could be fair for hardware makers and money makers. If it contributes to education, there is just fair in it, because users will be happy and they will *freely* like the product and buy it for a good cause.


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## fernandel (Jun 1, 2019)

Spartrekus said:


> I do understand that iPhone has BSD in it.
> Doubts about iPhone, although it has Freebsd, it is only with providing your CB bank account nbr, right during the first use...
> 
> Unix - it is fair for all, not only users, but I guess that it could be fair for hardware makers and money makers. If it contributes to education, there is just fair in it, because users will be happy and they will *freely* like the product and buy it for a good cause.
> View attachment 6539


"Live free or die...UNIX" or whatever OS you put there and my question is: Are we free with all of those computers and computerized phones and everything else, free because we have Internet? IMO, we are NOT.
In mine students days and later too I saw all European countries by autostoping and train, met many people, made frenships and with some we are still friends and visit which other and TALKS. I saw all Africa and Middle East, India the same way and I know how countries looks in real...
And now people going in the pubs, sit, each one phone in their hands and enjoying the freedom.
Or I am too old for this kind of world but I am happy that I am not young.


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## johnblue (Jun 5, 2019)

Spartrekus said:
			
		

> What about FreeBSD as a replacement for Android, to be intended to mobile devices?


Given the structure of your question leads me to believe that you have not complied an AOSP ROM directly from source.  If you have, then you have somehow managed to abstract the vast complexities of AOSP down to a simple "What about FreeBSD .. " question.

While it is a mildly interesting topic of conversation, there are too many moving parts.  I was actually going to comment about Qualcomm but unitrunker beat me to it.



(and for the record .. you are not going to find an better RF software engineer than unitrunker)


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## unitrunker (Jun 5, 2019)

Thanks John. We should ask Steve H. who actually works for Qualcomm. I think I know his answer.


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