# PlayStation 4 and FreeBSD



## jrm@ (Nov 16, 2013)

Sony's new PlayStation 4 and open-source FreeBSD: THE TRUTH


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## cpm@ (Nov 17, 2013)

Check it out: Sony PS4 Debuts on Jimmy Fallon. See also, PS4 Teardown and Disassembly.


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## markbsd (Nov 18, 2013)

cpm said:
			
		

> Check it out: Sony PS4 Debuts on Jimmy Fallon.



That was pretty cool!


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## nrgmilk (Nov 18, 2013)

PS4 sold one million units in 24 hours.
That means that FreeBSD embedded machine has sold one million units.


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## usdmatt (Nov 18, 2013)

I always take stories like these with a grain of salt. FreeBSD is an outstanding, well designed system, and may be an overall better choice than Linux for a system where you're using your own hardware drivers anyway. Of course a big part of the reason is that they can make any changes to the system they need without releasing that information (which may contain too much valuable information about their architecture) back to the public.

The computer market is so powerful these days that there's no way a console could compete with top of the range PC hardware (Just think of the years and billions that Intel/AMD/nVidia have put into their R&D). So it makes sense to just use the latest off the shelf components to make a console - Makes it easier for devs as well. If you're using standard components, then again, it makes sense to use a rock solid existing OS for all the boring bits than try and write from scratch.

Of course, with Linux driving the new SteamOS, it's nice to think that FreeBSD is behind one of the big two consoles of this generation; And we all know the other one isn't running Windows because it's a better choice


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## Martillo1 (Nov 18, 2013)

^^^ Well, Windows 8/8.1 is not that bad.


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## tzoi516 (Nov 18, 2013)

I might have to switch sides now.


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## igorino (Nov 18, 2013)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I thought that the original Xbox uses a modified Windows XP highly tweaked for gaming, not an OS written from scratch.


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## nrgmilk (Nov 19, 2013)

Xbox is modified version of the Windows 2000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_(console)


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## xibo (Nov 20, 2013)

This, and bHyVe, should really be a motivation for nVidia to provide CUDA support on FreeBSD I hope.


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## ShelLuser (Nov 21, 2013)

Well, just because it uses FreeBSD (which is my favourite Unix (-like) environment) doesn't automatically make the PS4 just as great as the operating system it uses   I really like my PS3 but from what I've read about the PS4 so far I don't think I'll be upgrading anytime soon.

Sure, the specifications look interesting and it is of course quite obvious that the platform will provide more resources for game developers to enhance their games even further, no arguments there.

But when looking at this thing with my PS3 in mind I can't say I'm very excited about the new lock-ins they are introducing. For example; on the new environment Playstation users will now have to get a subscription (Playstation Plus; approx. E 50,- / year) before they'll be able to play multiplayer games. With the PS3 you don't need that.

And well, last time I discussed this model with a friend of mine (note; we're both casual players) he was convinced that the subscription entitled you to a lot of free game titles. Unfortunately not so much; those titles are only free during your subscription period; when the subscription ends so will your privilege of playing those games. Ergo; you don't get free games with Playstation plus, you only get a variable batch of games which you're basically renting.

I can see how this might still appeal to more veteran players, but for me it's most certainly not a good argument to get me interested because I don't see the "extra value" 

Another big no no was learning that the PS4 wouldn't be able to play PS3 games. Now, this is something you could have seen coming considering that the PS3 also seems to have issues with PS2 games, but in the mean time they did provide some kind of emulator / rom kind of thing (iirc) which makes PS2 games more accessible.

Even so it strikes me as odd. If your console really is so much more powerful then why can't it emulate older stuff? Virtualisation (to mention one technique) has become quite common these days. And although I fully agree that playing games requires a lot more resources than average use, I can't help think that it should have been doable to be downwards compatible.

Better yet; any comments about it being too resource hungry would make more sense if the PS4 didn't continuously record all your game play no matter what. All 15 minutes of it. From what I've read so far there's no way to turn that off. Now; it might be a specific technique they're using for this which won't make this as resource hungry as I think it'll be, but even so.. Looks a bit weird.

And although I don't often use it any more (it was why I got my PS3 in the first place) you can no longer access other devices in your network. SO watching pictures from my PC on the Playstation will no longer be possible with the PS4.

Now, the last isn't a realistic argument since if Sony would want to move away from the "family media entertainment" options. But the thing is; they don't. They simply don't want you to have the freedom to use your own media resources / contents.

Instead they prefer that you use their own online media libraries (or associated libraries) to look at your stuff. Pictures? My guess is that you should upload those to Facebook or something and then your PS4 can also access these. Films? Just browse through Sony's own movie library. When you want to watch something there's most likely some extra costs involved, but who cares?

Which brings me to my main concern.. When I look at the next-gen consoles (both Xbox One and PS4) I see too much lockdown for my liking. We can no longer use our own media, instead they slowly, but steadily, try to persuade people to use their own online services.

In other words: trying to limit your options and make you dependant on whatever they have to provide.

And I think that could be a pretty disturbing move in the end. It starts slowly (just look at the app store on Windows 8 or the "BIOS boot protection" which can currently be turned off), but if you're not careful then that could change in an instant.


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## sossego (Nov 21, 2013)

Now all the neo-nerds will have to learn a new system.


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## tzoi516 (Nov 21, 2013)

The early PS3 (with the 60GB HDD) had the Emotion Engine that allowed backwards compatibility - and backwards compatibility is a niche thing; a small segment play old games. I don't think the Playstation Plus subscription is going to be hardware-based, I think there will be a PS3 update to make it consistent with the PS4.


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## TiberiusDuval (Nov 21, 2013)

ShelLuser said:
			
		

> Another big no no was learning that the PS4 wouldn't be able to play PS3 games. Now, this is something you could have seen coming considering that the PS3 also seems to have issues with PS2 games, but in the mean time they did provide some kind of emulator / rom kind of thing (iirc) which makes PS2 games more accessible.
> 
> Even so it strikes me as odd. If your console really is so much more powerful then why can't it emulate older stuff? Virtualisation (to mention one technique) has become quite common these days. And although I fully agree that playing games requires a lot more resources than average use, I can't help think that it should have been doable to be downwards compatible.



I think the main reason for no backward compatibility is that PS3, and PS4 have completely different processor architectures. PS3 had Sony's own processor design, which was pretty much non-standard, and PS4 has an x86-based processor. So to run a PS3 game you would need to emulate a completely different machine. And the PS4 simply does not have that much power to run anything as fast as PS3 can do it natively. 

Good example about emulation and how much it needs processing power: I used many years ago a Pentium MMX machine running at 225 MHz. I tried to run in an emulator some Amiga games with it. Nothing worked properly, some games barely functioned, some did not work at all. Then I loaded the OS disk and ran some test software to see how fast my emulated machine was. It was way slower than a real Amiga 500. 

Some years later I tested with a PentiumIII 500 MHz, it could run with an emulator somewhat faster than a native Amiga 500. Even later I finally could run with an AthlonXP 1500+ emulator about as fast as the fastest Commodore produced Amigas ever produced were. 

Amiga 500 had 8 MHz Motorola 68000, and quite a bunch of some special hardware that also needed emulation. Even that old Pentium had quite much more raw power, but emulation is hard work to do...


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## tzoi516 (Nov 21, 2013)

The PS3 and Xbox 360 both used IBM PowerPC CPUs. When Sony found out Microsoft was using the same processor Sony wanted something different and was pitched the PowerPC Cell CPU. The first-gen PS3 was only able to play PS2 games because of the Emotion Engine chip, which was removed from the updated console design.


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## tzoi516 (Nov 21, 2013)

> The CPUs at the heart of these two consoles are very different in architecture approach, despite sharing some common parts.  The Xbox 360â€™s CPU, codenamed Xenon, takes a general purpose approach to microprocessor design and implements three general purpose PowerPC cores, meaning they can execute any type of code and will do it relatively well.
> 
> The PlayStation 3â€™s CPU, the Cell processor, pairs a general purpose PowerPC Processing Element (PPE, very similar to one core from Xenon) with 7 working Synergistic Processing Elements (SPEs) that are more specialized hardware designed to execute certain types of code.


Click here to read ...



> The Emotion Engine is a CPU developed and manufactured by Sony Computer Entertainment and Toshiba for use in the Sony PlayStation 2 video game console, as well as early PlayStation 3 models sold in Japan and North America


Click here to read ...


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## saxon3049 (Nov 22, 2013)

I feel BOTH are just low end gaming PC's, I will own both eventually but I am in now rush to go out and buy them like some people I know. Three guys I know were both at the midnight release of the Xbox One, last night. One of them is an indie games developer so I can understand why he has run out and got it, but the other two are a chef and a professional photographer. Not so much, but each to their own, it's their hobby.

But I am glad Sony are giving FreeBSD some loving.


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