# Non amd or intel desktop



## azathoth (Dec 7, 2017)

Can anyone recommend another chip type that competes on price with amd and intel?

Or is the duopoly pretty unbeatable?

I heard of octeon and loonsong chips.

I need to run ideally usb3 and ssd.


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## rigoletto@ (Dec 7, 2017)

You could try some ARM stuff like Pine64 or Raspberry Pi, but both would be for very light usage, and I do know what would be the practical limitations.

EDIT: You also have to take in account if that particular silicon is supported.

There are some high powered ThunderX based WORKSTATION but those are on the expensive side. But, FreeBSD it self use a ThunderX server to build the FreeBSD ARM packages.


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## azathoth (Dec 7, 2017)

lebarondemerde said:


> You could try some ARM stuff like Pine64 or Raspberry Pi, but both would be for very light usage, and I do know what would be the practical limitations.
> 
> EDIT: You also have to take in account if that particular silicon is supported.
> 
> There are some high powered ThunderX based WORKSTATION but those are on the expensive side. But, FreeBSD it self use a ThunderX server to build the FreeBSD ARM packages.




so for power for price amd n intel just cant b beat?
none of these octeon things can do it?
will nvidia make a move to selling servers n desktops?  i forget if freebsd will run on nvidia..?


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## rigoletto@ (Dec 7, 2017)

I do not know octeon but a quick look on the Cavium site says they are ARM and MIPS64.

The big point is  even if you find a amazing processor it still have to have the OS support and the only architecture widely support are x86, and ARM at some extent.

So, as far I know only AMD and Intel do x86 processor. Via used to make but I not know if they still make, and they always had some problems related to OS support.


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## shepper (Dec 7, 2017)

Via is producing a a Dual Core x86_64 but I believe the usb spec is still 2.0
Via Nano
I've used Via C3 and Via C7 based mobo's - they were functional, power efficient and durable.  The performance was mediocre and I have no personal experience running the latest Via Nano.


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## Gray Jack (Dec 7, 2017)

I don't think so... the only company that still make x86 processors other than AMD and Intel is Via, but their processors are kinda mediocre...
ARM processors are the only option other than x86 ones, but one as powerful as a x86 desktop are expansive


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## ralphbsz (Dec 7, 2017)

Within the x86 and x86-64 instruction set, I think we're down to Intel, AMD and Via.  National Semiconductor used to make embedded x86, no idea what happened to them.  There was also a small player called "SiS", again they've dropped off my radar.

Arm is obvious.  The vendors that make ARM servers probably have some desktop-class machines available, as development workstations for their server product line.  I think you can also still get embedded MIPS CPUs (not IP for putting them on an ASIC or FPGA, but discrete chips), although I haven't seen any in form factors that would lend themselves to desktop use.

You can still get PowerPC desktop machines, from IBM.  With the "OpenPower" initiative, you can also get that instruction set from other vendors, but I have only seen rackmount form factors, not desktop.  I don't know about "price competitive" ... that depends on your viewpoint.

I don't think you can get Sparc desktop machines any longer.  Nor Itanium from HP; I think those are all either blades or rackmount up to supercomputers.

I still have two microVAXes at home ... those make good desktop machines.


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## james122333 (Jan 7, 2018)

MIPS64 and ARM/ARM64 seem to lack support...


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## Crivens (Jan 7, 2018)

Sadly, the old HP-PA in my basement has no support either. But I already had made the decision to go off-mainroad in case my hardware is failing next time and check for some ARM based laptop, get a loongson one or roll my own altogether. In the meanwhile, use up the old hardware in the attic and enjoy the fireworks to come. Damn, given some play money I would have done put orders on Intel in december when I saw the b*tchslapping to come over their ME on the CCC in Leipzig. But with kids in the house, play money is going other directions


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## diizzy (Jan 7, 2018)

Gray Jack 
Not quite, http://www.compactpc.com.tw/default.aspx these guys are still around but don't expect any type of "decent" performance for desktop usage ;-)


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## rigoletto@ (Jan 7, 2018)

HERE and HERE.


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## ralphbsz (Jan 7, 2018)

Sorry for necroposting ...

For several months, I had a Raspberry Pi 3 on my electronics workbench in the basement, with an old 15" LCD panel and keyboard attached, for debugging and initial setup.  Ran FreeBSD for a while, then switched to Raspbian (=Debian =Linux).  Amazingly enough, under Raspbian it worked well enough, I could just say "startx", and get XWindows up on the screen.  There was a functioning web browser in Chromium; emacs and gcc worked (so I was able to compile small bits of software).  I plugged some speakers into the headphone connector, and used the browser to find find music, and it just worked.  Things are slow, in particular file system operations, but perfectly usable.  In particular if you grew up with graphical user interfaces on microVAXes and early Sparcstations: We used to think that the VAX 4000/60 or a Sparcstation 4 were both giant leaps compared to the VAXstation 3100 or Sun 3/50 (each of which ran at single-digit MIPS); yet we were able to do productive work on those older machines.

I'm thinking of ordering one extra RPi3 to keep around on the electronics workbench, as a spare desktop machine.  For $35 (I have a case already), it's a really cheap way of computing.


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## azathoth (Jan 7, 2018)

I ma talking for 20 tab firefox open and transmission-qt5 running an ddecent performacen for youtube


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## azathoth (Jan 7, 2018)

lebarondemerde said:


> HERE and HERE.


https://www.raptorcs.com/content/TL2DS1/intro.html
how much?
I got my 965 amd 6 core 3.2hz 16g ram system for like 600 on pricewatch.com

http://pricewatch.com/computer_systems_no_os/  some great deals
I know not server class hardware but wow mine been running 3 years, onyl thing I hate is usb3 expansion card not work and 2 sas drives in zfs are so so compared to even poopy ssd.


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## azathoth (Jan 7, 2018)

https://www.avantek.co.uk/store/avantek-32-core-cavium-thunderx-arm-desktop.html

This would be better if 1/4 price even if 1/4 the cpu power!! 32 x 1.8 57.6ghz  total when my 6 core 3.2 ghz 19.2ghz total is mostly idle as my desktop even with 40 tabs open and youtubes n music playing.
Need about 6ghz maybe 10 and more importanly usb3!!
I love the 40gb nic holy crap but where would I use that?
lol
$1,800 is a LOT for a desktop   is this meant to compete with gaming desktops?

big question: how well would freebsd 11.1 run on it?   as easily as on my amd?


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## azathoth (Jan 7, 2018)

http://www.pricewatch.com/price/computer_systems_no_os/fx_6300


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## azathoth (Jan 8, 2018)

https://www.raptorcs.com/content/TL2DS1/intro.html how much?


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## rigoletto@ (Jan 8, 2018)

azathoth

The Talos II POWER9 hardware have no price tag yet BUT should vary from 2K to 6K+, depending on model/options.

About the Cavium ThunderX, I am also wondering but I won't buy one just for testing. However, (apparently) FreeBSD uses a Cavium ThunderX 48 cores to build the ARM official packages. Look HERE and HERE.

Btw. I am willing to get some (12?) hours in Packet.net to test it.

Cheers!


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## Sensucht94 (Jan 8, 2018)

lebarondemerde said:


> azathoth
> The Talos II POWER9 hardware have no price tag yet BUT should vary from 2K to 6K+, depending on model/options.


At the cost of appearing ignorant...what OS is this POWER9 supposed to run, AIX?


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## azathoth (Jan 8, 2018)

Sensucht94 said:


> At the cost of appearing ignorant...what OS is this POWER9 supposed to run, AIX?



Good question, I had thought that since he mentioned it, it was a freebsd supported chip?


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## rigoletto@ (Jan 8, 2018)

FreeBSD does support PPC as Tier 2 (not fully supported) but one probably would have issues with POWER9, I guess. IBM is supporting Linux, and I believe it should already do relatively well in there.

IBM seem to be trying to push POWER9, and probably should (I hope) start pushing it harder after the Meltdown. Would be great if they actually do support ($$$$$) FreeBSD on POWER9.

Ah, you can also get used SPARC64 hardware yet.


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## ralphbsz (Jan 8, 2018)

lebarondemerde said:


> IBM is supporting Linux, ...


Linux definitely runs on Power9.  Because IBM doesn't want to be tied to one distribution, it will probably support two, for example RHEL and SUSE.  In my recollection, it even runs in little-endian mode these days (it does on Power8, and I think LE has either become the default or even mandatory for Power9).  I presume AIX is supported, although I've not personally seen it run, and presumably it will run BE.  Don't know about the iSeries (a.k.a. "i" or AS-400) operating system; it would probably be supported, since there is still demand for higher-power iSeries machines.

I am a bit surprised that Raptor ships a deskside workstation with Power9; I would have thought the only form-factor would be rackmount, designed for stacking many of them for a compute cluster.

Given that the power instruction set is backwards compatible to the one used on Power7 and Power8, FreeBSD should work on it as well as on those machines.  The hardware-specific setup code at the earliest boot phase might have to be tuned a little bit for the new memory interface and such, but that shouldn't be too hard for a competent kernel developer (in particular since the Linux code can be inspected to learn how to do things).

But note that while the Meltdown problem seems to be Intel-specific, Power9 doesn't get one away from the Spectre vulnerability.


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## rigoletto@ (Jan 8, 2018)

ralphbsz

It seems just RISC-V, CHERI, SPARC64(?) and Raspi (they gave a explanation of why since it is ARM) are not affected by Spectre.

If someone manage to get something CHERI based (very, very unlikely), there is CheriBSD. 

Btw, I didn't see a leak from Cavium (ThunderX) about Spectre (I am hoping my next "workstation" will be a ThunderX2).

EDIT:

About POWER9 and Linux, I think I saw RHEL, SuSe and Ubuntu.

Actually, Raptor is also selling a mobo + processor bundle too.


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## azathoth (Jan 8, 2018)

so huge hole in the market

if someone can get a pc together with usb3 and video card and non amd or intel chips  just 6gz speed total probly plenty

they would compete for massive desktop and server market 

why is not some mega conglomerate funding say forth g144 chip and forth version of freebsd or a project to port freebsd to the g144?

could really aid whole industry with better hardware options!

http://www.greenarraychips.com/home/products/index.html


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## ronaldlees (Jan 8, 2018)

Depends if your requirements are for personal use or for server farm.  For me, the only SBC that comes close to fulfilling this role on a personal level is the XU4, but - alas - no FreeBSD yet.  This is a device to put on your follow list IMO.  There's work ongoing in the NetBSD camp for this SoC, and the next iteration of it has been rumored/leaked to be a lot better with a bunch more memory (now only 2G).  They make them in 15,000 batches, and the last batch sold out in a few weeks, so currently hard to get.


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## rigoletto@ (Jan 8, 2018)

A never used any of those small ARM boards, but some devs are using BananaPIs clusters to build ARM ports for development purposes.

In a budget situation a "Banana Pi M3" may be interesting for a light desktop usage.


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