# Nothing can go wrong



## drhowarddrfine (May 15, 2013)

I own some fast food restaurants. Our franchisor touted their new POS system as the best thing since sliced bread (and we're experts on sliced bread). Built with Microsoft Windows, .NET, and every MS product you can think of!! Easy to convert, upgrade, control, track, change the menu and prices from your bedroom!

It crashed.

They started the conversion at 5AM. It's now 10AM and the system is still down. The software won't let them reload the previous installation either. The inside division* is working on it remotely but they can't figure out what's wrong. 

One hour to lunch rush.

* Written by The Miracle Software Company. If it works, it's a Miracle!


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## SirDice (May 15, 2013)

drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> One hour to lunch rush.


I hope you didn't chuck out your old cash registers


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## drhowarddrfine (May 15, 2013)

This was supposed to be an easy upgrade to the current system. The POS at this store is only a year old. We did buy a new system for one of the other stores but won't install that till next week.

I went over there at 10:30 and got the thumbs up just as I walked in. It seems to be working now but haven't heard if there are any issues.


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## jackp (May 15, 2013)

.NET developer here. IMO, Windows and/or .NET aren't to blame -- it's more likely the franchising company outsourced the development to the cheapest (read: least competent) developers possible, then pushed them to finish it in an unrealistically short timeframe.

Glad to hear they got it fixed (or reverted) though.


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## drhowarddrfine (May 15, 2013)

It was developed in-house but they've used outside sources before and we have always had problems with updates/revisions/interoperability/databases/networking/etc. This software was years in the making but so was the one before this and the one before that. It doesn't integrate as they always claim it will. The franchisee web site doesn't work like they always say it will. Networking/interfacing with the web site doesn't work like they say it will. Nothing is as easy as they say it will be.

I've forgotten the reason but we are still using Windows XP cause the new software won't run on Win 7 for reasons I can't get a straight answer for.

Operationally, for example, we own more than one store. Since they use the same menu and prices, you would think we'd be able to use the "group" feature to set up just one menu but no. The tax rates are different so we must enter each menu item and price, by hand, separately.


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## DutchDaemon (May 15, 2013)

I guess POS has multiple meanings.


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## drhowarddrfine (May 15, 2013)

I'm told that the last thing they did to make it work was "reinstall the SQL stuff".


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## nekoexmachina (May 16, 2013)

LOL. I remember at my previous work admins (thanks God I was not one of them) wrote an e-mail that "Exchange e-mail system must be updated to current version, which would be done on Friday starting from 7 PM. E-mail system would be unavailable for 3 hours."

And Exchange was only back and kicking on the next Friday (on Saturday evening admins just switched MX-records to a temporary Postfix solution).


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## NewGuy (May 16, 2013)

drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> It was developed in-house but they've used outside sources before and we have always had problems with updates/revisions/interoperability/databases/networking/etc. This software was years in the making but so was the one before this and the one before that. It doesn't integrate as they always claim it will. The franchisee web site doesn't work like they always say it will. Networking/interfacing with the web site doesn't work like they say it will. Nothing is as easy as they say it will be.
> 
> I've forgotten the reason but we are still using Windows XP cause the new software won't run on Win 7 for reasons I can't get a straight answer for.
> 
> Operationally, for example, we own more than one store. Since they use the same menu and prices, you would think we'd be able to use the "group" feature to set up just one menu but no. The tax rates are different so we must enter each menu item and price, by hand, separately.



Forgive me if this seems flip, but why are you still using these guys for your POS software? They don't deliver a good product, you're experiencing prolonged down time and you are stuck on an operating system which will soon be obsolete. These all strike me as being indicators you should be shopping around for a replacement.


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## drhowarddrfine (May 16, 2013)

I have no say in this. I have no control. I shake my head in wonder all the time and no longer contribute. It's a Microsoft shop.

In the 1980s I wanted to build a cash register that had a removable, snap on/off front panel containing the keyboard and fluorescent display that we could carry in the backroom to do inventory and would tabulate all the data to send to the home office but didn't have the time to mess with it. It would have looked like an iPad.

I'm a genius and no one listens to me.


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## jackp (May 16, 2013)

drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> It's a Microsoft shop.



You should point them to this post: F# on FreeBSD


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## kpedersen (May 16, 2013)

I would be much more interested in seeing a C++/clr compiler running on FreeBSD. After all, C++/clr is the link between .NET developers and actual software developers.


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## _martin (May 16, 2013)

jackp said:
			
		

> .NET developer here. IMO, Windows and/or .NET aren't to blame -- it's more likely the franchising company outsourced the development to the cheapest (read: least competent) developers possible, then pushed them to finish it in an unrealistically short timeframe.
> 
> Glad to hear they got it fixed (or reverted) though.



I second that. 

It depends how good your infrastructure is set. It's all about the backup and team work (OS, backup, SAN, stoage, etc.) One of our customer is possible to restore 50 TB in < 5 hrs (p9500 as a storage backend). 
As you spoke about Windows, I've seen bunch of very quick OS restores of this system too.

And speaking about commercial OS, the worst recovery procedure I've seen is one for Linux (mondo rescue, backupedge, ...).


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## ShelLuser (May 17, 2013)

My company is a Microsoft reseller / developer as well and quite frankly I'm baffled to read this. If a company sells you an XP powered solution because the software involved can't run on Windows 7 then they're showing their own ignorance and (in my very personal opinion): sheer incompetence.

Because of issues like these Microsoft has introduced Windows XP mode, which is available with Windows 7 Professional and up. It's basically a full version of Windows XP which runs in a virtual machine, powered by Microsoft's Virtual PC.

The beauty of this system, in my opinion of course, is that the XP software can fully "blend in" with your Windows 7 environment. You can actually run and use XP programs as if they were native Windows 7 programs, the main noticeable difference is the border around the window; that will clearly show an XP "look and feel". Also; during the first time you start such a program it will take longer to start than a regular program, that's because you're not starting one single program but a whole operating system as well.

Then there's the simply issue of XP being outdated. Just for fun I checked with my supplier but the only client licenses I could sell right now are for Windows 7 and Windows 8, XP isn't available any more. Not even as a single Client Access License ("CAL"), so basically the company involved also sold outdated software. Hopefully for you they didn't charge the full price for it.

Even so; this really tells us more about the company involved than the infrastructure this was build upon. Just because it's Microsoft doesn't mean it will fail per definition.


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## kpa (May 17, 2013)

The company that still sells solutions for Windows XP is doing so because there's a market for them. Don't you think it tells quite a story about the people who want to buy such solutions?


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## drhowarddrfine (May 17, 2013)

The issue is there are about 40,000 stores using XP and few of them care about being on the frontline of tech so trying to convince them they need to get Windows 7 would be a battle. Why the new units have XP, I don't know.


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## phoenix (May 17, 2013)

Note:  as a franchisee, @drhowarddrfine doesn't really have a say in what OS or PoS equipment is used inside his stores.  It's one of the benefits of being a franchisee (you don't have to worry about a lot of the little things as it's taken care of by the franchise), but can also be one of the biggest frustrations (as you don't have control over every little thing).  

Not much point ragging on him directly.


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## ShelLuser (May 18, 2013)

kpa said:
			
		

> The company that still sells solutions for Windows XP is doing so because there's a market for them. Don't you think it tells quite a story about the people who want to buy such solutions?


Well, in this case I think its a bit different but in general I fully agree with you. There is most certainly a demand, but even so I think that after having maintained XP for nearly 13 years it's also not that uncommon for a developer to move on.

But yes, I fully agree that Microsoft would probably be able to generate a lot more revenue if they would stop trying to "steer the market" and instead continue to sell their products as long as those are still being maintained, especially if there's still a demand for it.

Even so, this seems to be an issue of all times. Right now I still have a few Office 2010 licenses in stock (I bought those when Office 2013 was moving on and well... Didn't quite look that appealing to me) and the same issue applies.


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## drhowarddrfine (May 22, 2013)

It's 12:45AM my time but I feel like clearing some things up. We just finished installing the new cash register I mentioned earlier. They didn't pre-install the POS software even though we ordered it that way..........**sigh** So they'll be installing it themselves remotely overnight. We have people coming in at 7AM for training and they promised it will be done. Just like last week.

But one thing I did find out. The new system is Windows 7 Professional and not XP like I thought. I think I had read that it ran in XP mode but I don't know if that's still true or not. Anyway, I'm going to bed.


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## drhowarddrfine (May 22, 2013)

More things that can't go wrong. Tech support tried to fix it but didn't do anything. Without calling us, they now say it's "not our job, man". The people who have to support it is a contracted firm who says we dropped the ball cause we didn't fill out the pre-qualification paperwork (we did). So even though we did, the local development agent was supposed to verify it all, approve it, process their own order and send that in, along with showing up for the install. Of course, our DA was never told we even ordered a new system in the first place but that doesn't seem to bother anybody.

Oh and, BTW, all of this is our fault for not following that procedure which isn't published anywhere and our agent isn't even aware of any documentation for it.

As of 9:30 AM, the register is working but not for taking credit cards.

Sorry for the personal rant. I probably shouldn't be talking about this here but it makes me feel better.


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## Crivens (May 22, 2013)

You are welcome to rant here. We all do, sometimes.

What bugs me, is there no coverage for losses they produce with this?


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## kpa (May 22, 2013)

drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> Oh and, BTW, all of this is our fault for not following that procedure which isn't published anywhere and our agent isn't even aware of any documentation for it.



The documentation of this procedure is in someone's basement on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.


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## drhowarddrfine (May 22, 2013)

Crivens said:
			
		

> What bugs me, is there no coverage for losses they produce with this?



And if the train should jump the track, let's see who catches hell.

A lot of people may be shocked at what franchisees have to put up with.


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## Crivens (May 22, 2013)

drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> And if the train should jump the track, let's see who catches hell.
> 
> A lot of people may be shocked at what franchisees have to put up with.



You mean like having to have a smooth tile floor in the kitchen area for cleaness and having certified rough grip style tiles in the kitchen floor for work security, and then being fined two times a year for violating one of these rules? 

Goedel, sadly, is no required reading for lawmakers. So, now that you know where the bar is, try to shock us


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## drhowarddrfine (May 22, 2013)

Those are health inspector rules but...having to patch the holes where the electrical conduit goes into the ceiling but the same conduit goes through same size holes into the back wall three feet below it.


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