# Linux to BSD



## mooreted (Sep 5, 2009)

I have been using Linux for 8 or 9 years. I tried FreeBSD several years ago, but it didn't seem like a good OS for a regular desktop user. I would like to try it again, but have a few concerns:

a. Could I play Second Life with it?
b. Can I install drivers for an 8800GT and get full speed?
c. Can I play movies, DVD's, music flash videos, etc.?

Essentially, can I do all the things I do on Linux with FreeBSD or will I find that it's lacking a lot of the things a normal user would want to do?


----------



## dennylin93 (Sep 5, 2009)

No idea, but there is Wine for Windows emulation. Linux emulation also works.
There are ports of Nvidia drivers (x11/nvidia-driver), so the graphic cards should work fine.
Yes, DVDs, movies, and videos can all be played.

Just pick i386 instead of amd64 since Wine and the Nvidia only work on i386. Support for amd64 should come in later releases.

Most applications that run on Linux also work on FreeBSD. GNOME, KDE, Xfce, OpenOffice.org, Firefox, etc. They just need to be installed.

It's a different concept. Linux stuffs your system with a lot of useless stuff by default while FreeBSD just installs the base system. Users are free to decide what they wish to install later. It does take more time, but it leaves a greater room for customization.

There's always PC-BSD for those who want to use BSD but are too lazy to install all the necessary ports for a desktop.


----------



## mooreted (Sep 5, 2009)

That depends on the distro. Slackware and Archlinux, for instance, do not install anything you don't want. The bigger distros are trying to cater to "Joe Sixpack" for some strange reason.

Anyway, I have run into one problem: no guest additions for FreeBSD as a guest in Virtualbox. It makes me wonder how much is out there that is only made for Linux. It seems like the BSD's lag behind Linux when it comes to the desktop.

I guess I'll see what I can do in VB before I decide to actually switch.

I know the big distros are not catering to someone like me. Pulseaudio installed without my consent, for instance. Hundreds of apps installed that I'll never use. I would like something cleaner.


----------



## CodeBlock (Sep 5, 2009)

Few things:
1) The nvidia driver currently works for non-64-bit machines. Been there, tried that, and am currently losing about a gig of my 4gb /ram, on my desktop, due to having to run 32-bit.

2) Some driver stuff (UVC Webcam driver, for example) doesn't work on BSD, so for example, on my laptop install, I can not use my webcam. This is a bit of a disappointment, but the positive aspects of FreeBSD overwhelmingly outweigh the need for this.

3) Flash is a bit unstable/evil. It runs in the Linux compatibility layer, and while I'm not sure this is the issue, I think that if/when Adobe makes us a native flash player, this will be fixed.

4) VirtualBox *does* work with a BSD host, but acts up a bit. It is a very new project in the BSD community, and I expect to see it improve. I'd like to possibly even get involved and help test some stuff, and be a part of making this work for everyone, that would be pretty neat.

Overall the positive stuff that comes with BSD (The community, Ports, Documentation, etc, etc) really make BSD the great OS that it is. Without all the developers, users, PR-submitters, Committers, etc.. BSD would not be what it is. Keep that in mind .


----------



## dennylin93 (Sep 5, 2009)

mooreted said:
			
		

> That depends on the distro. Slackware and Archlinux, for instance, do not install anything you don't want.



Oops. I forgot about Slackware, Arch, and Gentoo.



> Flash is a bit unstable/evil. It runs in the Linux compatibility layer, and while I'm not sure this is the issue, I think that if/when Adobe makes us a native flash player, this will be fixed.



Flash seems to work fine for me (using www/linux-f10-flashplugin10). I haven't really run into problems yet.

I'd say that FreeBSD does make a fine desktop. There are some limitations, but it doesn't lag behind Linux a lot. There aren't a lot of programs that can run on Linux but not on FreeBSD (there are over 20000 ports available right now).


----------



## CodeBlock (Sep 5, 2009)

dennylin93 said:
			
		

> Oops. I forgot about Slackware, Arch, and Gentoo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Right, and I agree with this, but for a while, flash10 was...non-trivial to set up, and every now and then I have to `killall npviewer.bin`... I still blame that on adobe


----------



## dennylin93 (Sep 5, 2009)

CodeBlock said:
			
		

> Right, and I agree with this, but for a while, flash10 was...non-trivial to set up, and every now and then I have to `killall npviewer.bin`... I still blame that on adobe



I even have a script for `$ killall npviewer.bin` . Every time I need it, I just type `$ killall-flash.sh`.


----------



## SirDice (Sep 5, 2009)

Try not to use killall. If you're ever on Solaris killall does something completely different. Use pgrep(1) and pkill(1).


----------



## CodeBlock (Sep 5, 2009)

hah, alias time! `kf` (kill flash) or similar ...
I know - the alias stinks, then again I have `pfu` for `portsnap fetch update`, and `pb` for `portmaster -Bad`


----------



## Ole (Sep 5, 2009)

Also 'hot' key is good way for killing nspluginwrrapper 

 On AMD64, you can try x11-drivers/xf86-video-nouveau port for NVIDIA. Its get good speed for me


----------



## CodeBlock (Sep 5, 2009)

Ole said:
			
		

> Also 'hot' key is good way for killing nspluginwrrapper
> 
> On AMD64, you can try x11-drivers/xf86-video-nouveau port for NVIDIA. Its get good speed for me



Yeah I might make a ctrl-<something> hotkey or something, but my standard media keys do not work with BSD .

Regarding the amd64, I couldn't get that to work with mine, but I didn't mess with it that much... Maybe when 8.0 comes out, I'll just do a fresh install and give it another shot. Or maybe Nvidia will give us a real driver for 64-bit by then .


----------



## Beastie (Sep 5, 2009)

CodeBlock said:
			
		

> I think that if/when Adobe makes us a native flash player, this will be fixed.


Keep waiting. I somehow doubt the FreeBSD Foundation will waste big bucks on a native implementation any time soon. You better hope someday Flash is replaced altogether and "popular" websites make the switch.




			
				CodeBlock said:
			
		

> flash10 was...non-trivial to set up, and every now and then I have to `killall npviewer.*bin*`... I still blame that on adobe


It holds its name well. All those obscure proprietary binary blob crap should be boycotted. Most websites that rely on huge loads of javascripts, flash, and fancy animations to "look professional", are usually crap too anyway, they take ages to load and take all the fun from your browsing experience.


----------



## mooreted (Sep 6, 2009)

CodeBlock said:
			
		

> hah, alias time! `kf` (kill flash) or similar ...
> I know - the alias stinks, then again I have `pfu` for `portsnap fetch update`, and `pb` for `portmaster -Bad`



What's wrong with aliases? I use them all the time. Makes life easier.


----------



## mooreted (Sep 6, 2009)

Beastie said:
			
		

> Keep waiting. I somehow doubt the FreeBSD Foundation will waste big bucks on a native implementation any time soon. You better hope someday Flash is replaced altogether and "popular" websites make the switch.
> 
> 
> 
> It holds its name well. All those obscure proprietary binary blob crap should be boycotted. Most websites that rely on huge loads of javascripts, flash, and fancy animations to "look professional", are usually crap too anyway, they take ages to load and take all the fun from your browsing experience.



Yeah, the web has gone to hell. When I need information I don't need flash and cool javascript popups and animated talking heads. I wish web designers would mellow out.


----------



## mooreted (Sep 6, 2009)

Thanks for the replies. Always appreciated.


----------



## Eponasoft (Sep 9, 2009)

mooreted said:
			
		

> Yeah, the web has gone to hell. When I need information I don't need flash and cool javascript popups and animated talking heads. I wish web designers would mellow out.


I had an argument with someone about that a couple of months ago. He insisted that I should make all of my sites "Web 2.0 compliant!". So I said "you mean 3MB in size, filled with unneeded junk, that takes 2 minutes to load on broadband?". When I design a website, it loads very quickly because it isn't bogged down with crap; I rarely use javascript, preferring to stick with plain HTML (I don't even use XHTML; I find it a silly 'improvement' on a system that was never broken to begin with). I HATE Flash and refuse to use it for websites, not even for menus. KISS...Keep It Simple, Stupid!


----------



## fonz (Sep 9, 2009)

Eponasoft said:
			
		

> I had an argument with someone about that a couple of months ago. He insisted that I should make all of my sites "Web 2.0 compliant!". So I said "you mean 3MB in size, filled with unneeded junk, that takes 2 minutes to load on broadband?". When I design a website, it loads very quickly because it isn't bogged down with crap; I rarely use javascript, preferring to stick with plain HTML (I don't even use XHTML; I find it a silly 'improvement' on a system that was never broken to begin with). I HATE Flash and refuse to use it for websites, not even for menus. KISS...Keep It Simple, Stupid!


+1

Alphons


----------



## dennylin93 (Sep 9, 2009)

A lot of websites in Taiwan are filled with horrible bits of HTML and JavaScript. I couldn't believe my own eyes at first. Some websites used JS for stuff that could be easily achieved by CSS. No accessibility as well. The list goes on and on.


----------



## vivek (Sep 9, 2009)

Now, web is nothing but javascript, just take a look at gmail and other apps. If JS is disabled many site render to refuse.


----------



## dennylin93 (Sep 9, 2009)

We've gone a bit off-topic for this thread.


----------



## mooreted (Sep 9, 2009)

Eponasoft said:
			
		

> I had an argument with someone about that a couple of months ago. He insisted that I should make all of my sites "Web 2.0 compliant!". So I said "you mean 3MB in size, filled with unneeded junk, that takes 2 minutes to load on broadband?". When I design a website, it loads very quickly because it isn't bogged down with crap; I rarely use javascript, preferring to stick with plain HTML (I don't even use XHTML; I find it a silly 'improvement' on a system that was never broken to begin with). I HATE Flash and refuse to use it for websites, not even for menus. KISS...Keep It Simple, Stupid!



Exactly. Too much unnecessary cruft out there.


----------



## mooreted (Sep 9, 2009)

dennylin93 said:
			
		

> We've gone a bit off-topic for this thread.



Oops.


----------



## hedwards (Sep 10, 2009)

dennylin93 said:
			
		

> We've gone a bit off-topic for this thread.


Eh, does that even apply to threadjacks which the OP participates?

As for the topic, the multimedia stuff tends to work pretty well on FreeBSD these days with a few exceptions. And while the nVidia support in the AMD64 version is basically non-existent at this point, there's been a lot of work, and it won't be that way forever.

Most of the differences between Linux and FreeBSD are the result of cultural disagreements, at least at the user level, in code that's not particularly true.


----------



## Bunyan (Sep 10, 2009)

I don't agree that Linux stuffs your disc with unneeded packages. It depends on the distro. Great and mighty SLACKWARE doesn't fill your hard-drive with illogical dependencies. If you're an expert, you can cut the installation menu even more drastically and SLACKWARE will work!
SLACKWARE is the best conceived Linux distribution.


----------



## CodeBlock (Sep 10, 2009)

Bunyan said:
			
		

> I don't agree that Linux stuffs your disc with unneeded packages. It depends on the distro. Great and mighty SLACKWARE doesn't fill your hard-drive with illogical dependencies. If you're an expert, you can cut the installation menu even more drastically and SLACKWARE will work!
> SLACKWARE is the best conceived Linux distribution.



That's debatable


----------



## Bunyan (Sep 10, 2009)

Debatable? That's fine, because you or anyone else may agree with me.
I can bring you a lot of arguments to support my opinion that *Slack* is an ideal *GNU/Linux* distribution. It is the most UNIX-like of the whole herd of *Linux* distributions.
Christopher Negus describes it in his "Linux Bible" as


> Slackware is a clean, basic Linux system, applications that run in Slackware will run on
> most other Linux systems as well. In other words, you wonâ€™t be encouraged to add a lot of special
> Slackware hooks that would prevent software from being portable across a wide range of Linux,
> UNIX, and BSD systems





> Slackware can easily provide an efficient development workstation environment for technical people
> because the distribution doesnâ€™t get in the way of its powerful features.





> keeps you as close to the silicon as possible,





> Iâ€™ve often heard users refer to Slackware as being easier to use than other Linux distributions. To
> someone coming from a UNIX or BSD background, this is probably true. You donâ€™t have to wait for
> graphical tools to pop up and almost everything is covered on a man page.


I don't mind that Linus Thorvalds is a Fedora Linux devotee.


----------



## DutchDaemon (Sep 10, 2009)

*No Linux Distro Comparison Wars!* This thread is about FreeBSD && Linux.


----------



## CodeBlock (Sep 10, 2009)

> Slackware is a clean, basic Linux system, applications that run in Slackware will run on
> most other Linux systems as well. In other words, you wonâ€™t be encouraged to add a lot of special
> Slackware hooks that would prevent software from being portable across a wide range of Linux,
> UNIX, and BSD systems



Isn't that said for almost any linux distro (sans a few that come to mind)?

And DutchDaemon, good point, I just have no life .. *finds a thread to offer some real help in or something*


----------



## Alt (Sep 11, 2009)

DutchDaemon said:
			
		

> *No Linux Distro Comparison Wars!* This thread is about FreeBSD && Linux.


Seems its about FreeBSD || Linux :e


----------



## lme@ (Sep 11, 2009)

No it's FreeBSD >> Linux


----------



## DutchDaemon (Sep 11, 2009)

I'd rather just overwrite, not append, lme


----------



## mooreted (Sep 12, 2009)

Every distro and OS have their particular strengths and weaknesses. These kinds of discussions are like Ford vs Chevy.

Personally; I work 6 days a week so I like an OS that does a lot of the work for me. I don't have time to mess with it.


----------



## oliverh (Sep 12, 2009)

mooreted said:
			
		

> Every distro and OS have their particular strengths and weaknesses. These kinds of discussions are like Ford vs Chevy.
> 
> Personally; I work 6 days a week so I like an OS that does a lot of the work for me. I don't have time to mess with it.



Of course, some have more of it and some have less of it. But people in this forum are usually using FreeBSD because it's one of those operating systems with less weaknesses and a massive plus of strengths 

And this is a very biased opinion, but actually it's also a FreeBSD forum. Last not least there are more FreeBSD users migrating from Linux to *BSD than the other way around. There are even many people experienced with different UNIX systems like AIX, HP/UX, Solaris etc.


----------



## paddlaren (Sep 12, 2009)

Hi!
I am a curious Linux-user, first met Unix as SunOS 4.x in -92  and OpenLook. Now-days I run Gentoo thus have total control over my installed system and have everything compiled for my CPUs capabilities. And yes, I like to put some effort in my system one in a while.

Now tell me, what is in freeBSD for me? What will I discover and like if I install freeBSD? 

Sell it to me!

Regards
// Erik


----------



## DutchDaemon (Sep 12, 2009)

Sell it to yourself: http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/bsd4linux1.php


----------



## Alt (Sep 12, 2009)

I think linux world have so much users only cus they have many sellers/sell managers/pr manageres. As microsoft too.


----------



## aragon (Sep 13, 2009)

Alt said:
			
		

> I think linux world have so much users only cus they have many sellers/sell managers/pr manageres. As microsoft too.


Or because mediocrity rules in this mediocre world.


----------



## lme@ (Sep 14, 2009)

DutchDaemon said:
			
		

> I'd rather just overwrite, not append, lme



No, not in a Unix sense but in a mathematical one.


----------

