# New (Hopefully) FreeBSD User Here.



## limo (Oct 3, 2021)

Hi, 
Finally, this is my first post in the BSD world (after my introduction https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/...y-you-chose-freebsd.68079/page-17#post-534669)

First of all, I feel so exited to try find my way in FreeBSD (hopefully I will succeed with making a bootable flash disk).

While trying to do it I read a few about BSD in general and FreeBSD. My instincts were right, BSD goes in line more with my character -as I could conclude from reading http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01 (though I am sure I am not that perfect).

Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience or anything I do that is not in line with this forum(s) as I am absolutely new here, trying to find my way.

My gut feeling I will enjoy it here very much with the community and BSD.

And I hope I am welcome here.
Thank you.


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## Vull (Oct 3, 2021)

Greetings and welcome.


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## zirias@ (Oct 3, 2021)

limo said:


> (hopefully I will succeed with making a bootable flash disk).


Have a look at https://github.com/mmatuska/mfsbsd – but I'd recommend to first just _use_ the system (and get used to it)  


limo said:


> I could conclude from reading http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01


Heh, I have one of these "personal testimonials", too: http://sekrit.de/webdocs/freebsd/advocacy.html

Welcome and have fun!


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## Alexander88207 (Oct 3, 2021)

Welcome aboard


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## mrbeastie0x19 (Oct 3, 2021)

Zirias said:


> Have a look at https://github.com/mmatuska/mfsbsd – but I'd recommend to first just _use_ the system (and get used to it)
> 
> Heh, I have one of these "personal testimonials", too: http://sekrit.de/webdocs/freebsd/advocacy.html
> 
> Welcome and have fun!


Great writeup. One thing I like is the modular approach to packages. Linux distributions are monolithic, I know that sometimes people say it is the other way around, but in my opinion because every package is considered equally part of the base system that makes Linux more monolithic in some senses. FreeBSD has a carefully defined base system which ensures that some software is usually held to a higher quality and is easily available. That is not to say that the ports tree is low quality, just realistically that the community has a focus on maintaining high quality software and only integrating it when it meets a certain standard or need. It is also cleanly put in the /usr/local/ directory, unlike Linux which throws everything in the /usr/ directory.


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## limo (Oct 3, 2021)

Vull said:


> Greetings and welcome.


Thank you very much Vull for the welcome.
I am really impressed with the forum and the FreeBSD


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## limo (Oct 3, 2021)

Alexander88207 said:


> Welcome aboard


Thank you
Alexander88207 for the welcome.​I am really enjoying here.


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## Beastie7 (Oct 3, 2021)

Welcome to the dark side.


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## limo (Oct 3, 2021)

That's really an impressing welcome.

That's why I said I loved open source software for the concept of freedom and the community.

It seems I'll boot the USB disk (hopefully) and install right away.


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## limo (Oct 3, 2021)

Beastie7 said:


> Welcome to the dark side.


Why dark! So far I am impressed with the community, and get more impressed as I read more and more about FreeBSD and BSD in general. To my humble knowledge this is the way how software is supposed to be developed.
This is the rainbow color side.


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## Beastie7 (Oct 3, 2021)

It was a joke.


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## ProphetOfDoom (Oct 4, 2021)

Hi there limo! You’ll have a heap of fun with this OS. for me FreeBSD has that kind of edgy, “dangerous” feeling that Linux had in ~2005. Sadly long gone.


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## limo (Oct 4, 2021)

AlexanderProphet said:


> Hi there limo! You’ll have a heap of fun with this OS. for me FreeBSD has that kind of edgy, “dangerous” feeling that Linux had in ~2005. Sadly long gone.


I am having a lot of “painful” fun! You know such games that are dangerous and painful but quite fun.

Honestly I kept installing (5 times) till I think I got it working. I could ping 2 websites, but no WiFi yet

Yeah, it reminds me of the good old days when I started Linux in 2000. 
But during installation I felt I’m 35 years younger! (Installation looked the same, but it is ok with me)

Sure I will find somebody to help me with WiFi so I can proceed and install KDE and start really playing around with FreeBSD.

I’m enjoying the pain a lot (hey! Don’t ever think I’m a masochist, it is just the exitement of adventure, like playing any self defence sport, you enjoy being kicked and punched and avoiding it and kick and punch as well. I’ve been there and done that actually)


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## astyle (Oct 4, 2021)

I actually recommend going with ports, rather than packages - but don't mix the two. 

AlexanderProphet : FreeBSD having 'edgy, dangerous feeling' ???  The documentation is fantastic for FreeBSD, and if you pay attention, things actually, and logically add up to usable results, even if you consult 25 different places. In Linux, consulting even 5 different places got me 5 different solutions, often incompatible with each other. Trying any one of them left me with an unusable system that needed to be re-installed from scratch. Now that's dangerous, unlike FreeBSD. And forums are a great place to ask about pitfalls that come with a solution - and get some nice, level-headed commentary that takes care to avoid pushing the 'my solution is best, everyone else sucks' ad campaign.


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## jardows (Oct 4, 2021)

Welcome limo!  I will say that getting into FreeBSD has made computing fun again for me.  There are so many potential things you can do with a FreeBSD installation, learning is part of the fun!


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## limo (Oct 4, 2021)

jardows said:


> Welcome limo!  I will say that getting into FreeBSD has made computing fun again for me.  There are so many potential things you can do with a FreeBSD installation, learning is part of the fun!


That’s why I just installed FreeBSD. But… it is not that easy.
As far as I got till now, BSD is a better designed/managed OS.
But for an old man like me… well.. the older you get the more impatient and less attention to detail. But, my character I never give up.
I’ll keep trying to get it up and running.


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## jbo (Oct 4, 2021)

Welcome!
I've switched from Linux to FreeBSD for all my server needs almost 10 years ago and I never looked back. Recently I'm also starting to use FreeBSD as a desktop OS.
I can only +1 what jardows said above: FreeBSD has made computing fun for me again.



limo said:


> But for an old man like me… well.. the older you get the more impatient and less attention to detail. But, my character I never give up.


Uh... wasn't it (supposed) to be quite the opposite?


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## limo (Oct 4, 2021)

astyle said:


> I actually recommend going with ports, rather than packages - but don't mix the two.


I’m ready to go with the devil. I’m already with Beastie… he is so cute.
Mostly I will go with ports, but as a noob, I understand that ports have the “source code” and I compile, install on my machine. What about “other” stuff that doesn’t have source code, like e.g. Google drive, or whatever M$ product?! 
How come I don’t mix?


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## astyle (Oct 4, 2021)

jbodenmann said:


> Welcome!
> I've switched from Linux to FreeBSD for all my server needs almost 10 years ago and I never looked back. Recently I'm also starting to use FreeBSD as a desktop OS.
> I can only +1 what jardows said above: FreeBSD has made computing fun for me again.
> 
> ...


Well, the way I see it - the older you get, the more patient you are with people, rather than machines, mostly because you don't really have that much skin in the game. But there's less patience with machines, because the machines are getting more and more nonsensical (Just take a look at Java!)


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## astyle (Oct 4, 2021)

limo said:


> I’m ready to go with the devil. I’m already with Beastie… he is so cute.
> Mostly I will go with ports, but as a noob, I understand that ports have the “source code” and I compile, install on my machine. What about “other” stuff that doesn’t have source code, like e.g. Google drive, or whatever M$ product?!
> How come I don’t mix?


Well, ports do have net/drive for Google Drive.

As for not mixing - that's because you run the risk of ABI mismatch. You have to be VERY careful about making sure that ports and packages have versions and ABI that matches, and it can take a LOT of work lining the two up. Packages are basically pre-compiled for you from a ports tree, with very conservative options. If you want  to mix ports with packages, you will have to put in some effort to locate the exact version of the ports tree that your packages came from.


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## limo (Oct 4, 2021)

jbodenmann said:


> I never looked back


I am sure once I get it up and running I’ll stick to it as by design it is much more… “well organised”
But I guess you suffered a bit at the beginning. Right? 


About patience… yes you are absolutely right. What I mean to be more precise, OK long time ago during the Basic Programming Language I was very patient, to read the code, read the Data and check all of it to find the problem was a dot instead of a comma and correct it. This was easy and no problem for me at that time. But I noticed as I grew older paying attention to details get a bit more and more “heavier”. (I notice the same with most friends). It is not being impatient as you think (or more precisely as I expressed inaccurately)

To put it another way, I could at that time learn and practice DBase III+ to compare it with Basic.
Now, it is “easier” for me to understand “the concept” of both, 2 or 3 commands of each to decide which would serve better for managing a database. But it I might feel “bored” somehow trying to learn the new language and write programs with it.

I hope I am not giving a bad impression about myself or about “old” people… I just feel I am part of the community and I’d love to think “loud” with you.

But any way, it is all about details, but above all, I never give up no matter what. This is how I lived my life.

Just came to my mind two sentences I read in two different stories when I was a kid (7 yrs I think), and they made a lot of difference in my whole life:
- I’ll find a way, or make one.
- if there is a will, there is a way.

Just thinking loud with you.


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## dd_ff_bb (Oct 4, 2021)

astyle said:


> Well, ports do have net/drive for Google Drive.


packages have google drive as well net/gdrive



astyle said:


> I actually recommend going with ports, rather than packages


I don't wanna be that guy but:
I think its pretty bad advice to give to a newcomer. Almost every port has package and they run well.
They are fast, updates easily etc....
Unless you need some special tweak no need to use ports (other than personal preference)



astyle said:


> As for not mixing - that's because you run the risk of ABI mismatch


Well not really. If you are running FreeBSD-Release (and i suggest installing release) that means you are on quarterly repo.
If you want to use ports just pull quarterly ports. So no need for voodoo  magic there.
But again there is no reason to use ports unless you need tweak and/or personal preference



limo said:


> But I noticed as I grew older paying attention to details get a bit more and more “heavier”. (I notice the same with most friends)


Welcome limo and do yourself a favor and use packages to avoid any further complication at least till you  are comfortable with FreeBSD.
Just my 2 cents


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## astyle (Oct 4, 2021)

dd_ff_bb said:


> Almost every port has package and they run well


OP already ran into an issue that requires ports - wi-fi drivers that are not in pkg repos due to licensing issues.


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## limo (Oct 4, 2021)

astyle said:


> Well, the way I see it - the older you get, the more patient you are with people, rather than machines,


You are right, but to me (and some other “childhood” friends) it is mainly about details. “We” prefer not to deal with “details” as much as possible. But we we have to we do it, well, that is to say if travelling packing my bags and putting my stuff in kills me. I just tell my kids or wife I need a jeans, 2 trousers 6 shirts…. but I don’t stuff them myself, and I can carry the bags and boxes no matter how heavy.


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## dd_ff_bb (Oct 4, 2021)

astyle said:


> wi-fi drivers that are not in pkg repos due to licensing issues.


Sure thing, he can build that driver from ports that's why i said:



dd_ff_bb said:


> Unless you need some special tweak no need to use ports (other than personal preference)



But it doesn't mean he has to build everything from ports.

Edit: astyle  to be honest with you, i missed "driver issue" actually i read it but then i forgot it was in this thread. Still it doesn't change my argument


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## limo (Oct 4, 2021)

astyle said:


> Packages are basically pre-compiled for you from a ports tree


So, let me be sure I understand this correctly.

Ports have source code, that I compile on my machine (so no proprietary software)
Packages have already compiled software (as in DEB, RPM, whether open source or proprietary)
The advantage of ports is that it is like “tailored” for my machine specifically.
As a newbie, it is easier to use packages not ports.
So, packages has proprietary software that I might need,  already pre compiled (as in RPM and DEB)

Please correct me/add/modify/comment.
Thank you.


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## Alexander88207 (Oct 4, 2021)

> Ports have source code, that I compile on my machine (so no proprietary software)



Ports have source code but some ports like nvidia-driver, teamspeak3-server can contain proprietary software.



> Packages have already compiled software (as in DEB, RPM, whether open source or proprietary)



 here it is .pkg



> The advantage of ports is that it is like “tailored” for my machine specifically.



I would say according to your wishes. (Disabling or Enabling port options for example: emulators/wine disable x11 option to use it on a non desktop system.)



> As a newbie, it is easier to use packages not ports.


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## astyle (Oct 4, 2021)

limo said:


> You are right, but to me (and some other “childhood” friends) it is mainly about details. “We” prefer not to deal with “details” as much as possible. But we we have to we do it, well, that is to say if travelling packing my bags and putting my stuff in kills me. I just tell my kids or wife I need a jeans, 2 trousers 6 shirts…. but I don’t stuff them myself, and I can carry the bags and boxes no matter how heavy.





limo said:


> So, let me be sure I understand this correctly.
> 
> Ports have source code, that I compile on my machine (so no proprietary software)
> Packages have already compiled software (as in DEB, RPM, whether open source or proprietary)
> ...



EVERYTHING has source code available in FreeBSD... kernel, userland, Desktop Environments...
"packages" really means the infrastructure to install useful software. The FreeBSD team takes a ports tree, and does the work of compiling it into packages that they make available in online repos. End result of that effort - on your Internet-connected machine, you just use `pkg install` to install a pre-compiled package.
The advantage of ports is that you can adjust the options BEFORE compiling and installing. That is accomplished with `make config`. Then `make && make install` will do the rest. However, the devil is in the details. I ran into circular dependencies with `make config`, and spent quite a bit of time learning how to deal with the fallout.
Packages (and ports) don't really have 'proprietary' software in the sense that they don't have Photoshop/AutoCAD/M$ stuff. The reason you can find NVidia drivers there is because NVidia did open-source them.
Packages are pre-compiled and made available in repos - that takes out the guesswork of configuring options for  compiling them. Just find a repo that matches both the version of FreeBSD on your machine and your processor architecture (amd64/aarch64/etc), and you're good to go. The price for that - a LOT of decisions are made for you, and you can't exactly say that for example, you want VLC to be able to display subtitles. Either find a different movie player that displays subtitles, or learn to compile VLC from ports.


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## astyle (Oct 4, 2021)

limo said:


> You are right, but to me (and some other “childhood” friends) it is mainly about details. “We” prefer not to deal with “details” as much as possible. But we we have to we do it, well, that is to say if travelling packing my bags and putting my stuff in kills me. I just tell my kids or wife I need a jeans, 2 trousers 6 shirts…. but I don’t stuff them myself, and I can carry the bags and boxes no matter how heavy.


TSA will ask you if you packed your bags yourself.


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## grahamperrin@ (Oct 5, 2021)

limo said:


> … As a newbie, it is easier to use packages not ports. …



Yes and no, because (simply) packages are built from ports.



astyle said:


> … ports, rather than packages - but don't mix the two. …





grahamperrin said:


> … Fears of mixing packages and ports are often unjustified. …





grahamperrin said:


> Recommendation


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## limo (Oct 5, 2021)

dd_ff_bb said:


> But it doesn't mean he has to build everything from ports.


Well.. if you check my other thread about WiFi

I played a bit with the system (with a cable)
Currently installing KDE Plasma. (I found this)

I noticed something, it is like trying to detect my hardware and automagically install required drivers (hopefully I am right). Just waiting for it to finish, it’s taking ages. (Maybe downloading and compiling on my machine)

There is still a lot I have to learn. BSD a making me feel like learning from scratch. But I’m enjoying the challenge!


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## SirDice (Oct 5, 2021)

limo said:


> I noticed something, it is like trying to detect my hardware and automagically install required drivers (hopefully I am right).


Yes, sysutils/desktop-installer tries to do a lot of things "automagically". 



limo said:


> Just waiting for it to finish, it’s taking ages. (Maybe downloading and compiling on my machine)


Nothing is being compiled if you're following those instructions (it uses pkg(8) to install it). There are just a LOT of packages that need to be downloaded and installed.


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## D-FENS (Oct 5, 2021)

limo said:


> Hi,
> Finally, this is my first post in the BSD world (after my introduction https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/...y-you-chose-freebsd.68079/page-17#post-534669)
> 
> First of all, I feel so exited to try find my way in FreeBSD (hopefully I will succeed with making a bootable flash disk).
> ...


FIghting over which one is the right to use - *BSD or GNU/Linux is like fighting over which tool is better - a hammer or a screwdriver.
You need different tools for different tasks, that's my philosophy.
I use happily both GNU/Linux and FreeBSD wherever it makes most sense. They work beautifully together. Heck, I even have a Windows OS that I use from time to time.


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## limo (Oct 5, 2021)

dd_ff_bb said:


> But it doesn't mean he has to build everything from ports.


Well.. if you check my other thread about WiFi

I played a bit with the system (with a cable)
Currently installing KDE Plasma.

I noticed something, it is like trying to detect my hardware and automagically install required drivers (hopefully I am right). Just waiting for it to finish, it’s taking ages. (Maybe downloading and compiling on my machine)

There is still a lot I have to learn. BSD a making me feel like learning from scratch. But I’m enjoying the challenge!


SirDice said:


> There are just a LOT of packages that need


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## limo (Oct 5, 2021)

SirDice said:


> There are just a LOT of packages that need to be downloaded and installed.


Well… finally finished as per the link I found.

I followed mainly the defaults when asked. But rebooted as before, no KDE.

I found in a log file 
“New packages to be INSTALLED:
         ca-root-nss
          .
          .
          qt5-core
           qt5-network
           .
           .

I never encountered anything about accepting license.
I’m missing something? Should I repeat? Or just install a few things (number of packages to be installed:28)


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## jardows (Oct 5, 2021)

limo said:


> Well… finally finished as per the link I found.
> 
> I followed mainly the defaults when asked. But rebooted as before, no KDE.
> 
> ...


If you've installed KDE, you'll either need to edit your .xinitrc file and then use `startx` command, or install a graphical login manager like x11/sddm, x11/slim, or x11/xdm.  KDE integrates well with sddm, so that might be the best one to use.  All you'll have to do after installing sddm is add the line to rc.conf

```
sddm_enable="YES"
```
Then after a reboot or running `service sddm start`, you'll be brought to the graphical login, which should automatically take you to your KDE session after logging in.


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## limo (Oct 5, 2021)

jardows said:


> install a graphical login manager like x11/sddm


I did sddm

Rebooted


jardows said:


> after installing sddm is add the line to rc.conf


I am now logged in as root, should I just create this file in the default directory I'm in?

Why it (in my post above) says there are packages to be installed? Does this mean it is not completely installed?


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## SirDice (Oct 5, 2021)

limo said:


> I am now logged in as root, should I just create this file in the default directory I'm in?


When we refer to rc.conf(5) we always mean /etc/rc.conf. It's the number one file on FreeBSD that configures what kind of services are started and what their configuration options are.


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## limo (Oct 5, 2021)

roccobaroccoSC said:


> FIghting over which one is the right to use


No, not at all… I’m not fighting or even accusing any OS!

It is all about me, always trying to learn something new.
All what I’m saying is just my personal judgement, the way BSD development and releas… etc. seems a bit more attractive to me. Controlled well organised process.

I’ve enjoyed Linux since 2000, for reasons Linux shares with BSD, freedom and “respect” to users.

I assure you I’m not fighting at all. Just curious and eager to try an OS I read a lot about, but unfortunately didn’t have the time to try.

I’m enjoying the “tough” but interesting and challenging experience trying to get it run as I expect.


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## limo (Oct 5, 2021)

jardows said:


> sddm_enable="YES"


Added to file,


jardows said:


> service sddm start


And reboot, nothing yet.
I issued command “X”, the text screen disappeared then a plain black screen… 

I think


limo said:


> I found in a log file
> “New packages to be INSTALLED:
> ca-root-nss
> .
> ...


The above might indicate something needs to be installed?

I’m sorry, I hope I’m not giving you hard time.


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## limo (Oct 5, 2021)

SirDice said:


> When we refer to rc.conf(5) we always mean /etc/rc.conf. It's the number one file on FreeBSD that configures what kind of services are started and what their configuration options are.


Thank you SirDice, you are always here to rescue.
Please excuse my illiteracy! I feel I’m learning from scratch!


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