# Another nice implementation of FreeBSD



## toorski (Oct 7, 2019)

Since I can't live without FreeBSD in everything, I decided to install it inside MSOS, to see how well it works in Windows 10 and Hyper-V.
Hyper-V+FreeBSD+jails+xrdp+lumina from MS/Remote Desktop (for enhanced view) made my digital life more interesting.
Now, I have  Virtual Host with well behaving FreeBSD guest OS installation, just in case my other dedicated FreeBSD boxes die, for some reason 
Hyper-V offers excellent opportunity for those with Windows-10 Professional Edition who want to learn, use and enjoy FreeBSD, as I do.
And yes, you can play games and play FreeBSD, on the same computer, at the same time, in Windows 10, as I do


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## Geezer (Oct 7, 2019)

I have got a windows 10 pro inside Bhyve under FreeBSD.

I think it is better that way around.


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## toorski (Oct 7, 2019)

Geezer said:


> I have got a windows 10 pro inside Bhyve under FreeBSD.



I do FreeBSD in their own boxes with more FreeBSD in jails and my fav linux in bhyve. But, I use MSOS box to play Steam and Origin games for MSOS, CATIA-CAE/CAD and StreetSmart to make little funny money - try that in bhyve. So, I have no reason to run MSOS in FreeBSD. But, I do have many reasons to run FreeBSD in Hyper-V - hehe.

Besides, trying FreeBSD in Hyper-V is a good start for those who have only one decent PC box with Windows 10 Pro and don't want to dual boot to learn other OS such as FreeBSD or Linux.


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## Geezer (Oct 7, 2019)

toorski said:


> . . . .. .. .. ... ... ... and StreetSmart to make little funny money ... ... ... .. .. .. . . .



I manage servers for clients in industry and make a little - well, I do very well for myself. I use FreeBSD because it works and the clients are happy. I also use FreeBSD on my laptop. I don't use it for gaming.

If you do try out FreeBSD and like it, you may consider dumping windows for everything that is not frivolous.


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## tommiie (Oct 8, 2019)

Geezer said:


> I have got a windows 10 pro inside Bhyve under FreeBSD.
> 
> I think it is better that way around.


I agree but I could not get Windows 10 installed in Bhyve, nor in VirtualBox. I should look into it a bit more when I have time. If only I had the time...

I sometimes need Windows 10 for work, mostly for Office applications, especially Visio.


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## toorski (Oct 8, 2019)

Geezer said:


> If you do try out FreeBSD and like it, you may consider dumping windows for everything that is not frivolous.


Well, I'm MSDOS, MS/Windows and Linux user since early 90's. I won't dump Windows or Linux because I consider them my old friends that I want to keep'n touch with, for fun and games  

Tho recently, I befriended FreeBSD and decided to utilize it as a replacement of my used2be (for about 10 years) Linux based TCP/IP server that provided my private SOHO domain with DNS, WWW and Email servers and services. While learning and playing with FreeBSD, I recognized its advantages over Linux - performance, support, simplicity, clarity, clean basic documentation and of course the ZFS and FreeBSD jails!  This is only my amateurish observation since I'm not a developer, coder or even script hacker. I just somehow know howto make it work for me - 50% luck and 50% knowhow from others  

So, right now FreeBSD is working for me, even with the lil'bit of experience that I have with it.

I'm glad that you like also FreeBSD and make good living supporting the OS with its resources - keep'em happy and satisfied.
I'll just do my bit by supporting FreeBSD with small donations to FBF, to keep FreeBSD devs and contributors alive and kicking


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## Geezer (Oct 8, 2019)

tommiie said:


> I agree but I could not get Windows 10 installed in Bhyve, nor in VirtualBox. I should look into it a bit more when I have time. If only I had the time...



Don't know who this bloke is, but he seems to explain it well enough.








						HOW TO: Windows 10 Under Bhyve /w FreeBSD 11 - A-Team Systems
					

With FreeBSD 11 comes a new version of Bhyve with a feature that makes installing Windows 10 a snap: a VNC accessible framebuffer driver! This lets any GUI OS, such as Windows, boot into graphics mode on the console.




					www.ateamsystems.com


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## D-FENS (Oct 8, 2019)

toorski said:


> Now, I have  Virtual Host with well behaving FreeBSD guest OS installation, just in case my other dedicated FreeBSD boxes die, for some reason


Why would your FreeBSD boxes die? They'll live forever


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## D-FENS (Oct 8, 2019)

toorski said:


> Well, I'm MSDOS, MS/Windows and Linux user since early 90's. I won't dump Windows or Linux because I consider them my old friends that I want to keep'n touch with, for fun and games
> 
> Tho recently, I befriended FreeBSD and decided to utilize it as a replacement of my used2be (for about 10 years) Linux based TCP/IP server that provided my private SOHO domain with DNS, WWW and Email servers and services. While learning and playing with FreeBSD, I recognized its advantages over Linux - performance, support, simplicity, clarity, clean basic documentation and of course the ZFS and FreeBSD jails!  This is only my amateurish observation since I'm not a developer, coder or even script hacker. I just somehow know howto make it work for me - 50% luck and 50% knowhow from others
> 
> ...


I like to think about my OSes as tools rather than friends. 
If you have a job, you need the right tool. So don't drop Windows if you need it for whatever reason. I found in my particular situation that I did not need it. I had an external HDD with Windows that I used occasionally for contracting work. But one time I wasted 2 business days just updating the packages to the latest state. No need to say, that was it - I have not booted Windows since then.
Win XP and Win 7 were fine OSes, but creeping featurism and Tablet adaptations killed the OS. Now it's unusable.


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## Crivens (Oct 8, 2019)

roccobaroccoSC said:


> Why would your FreeBSD boxes die? They'll live forever


Well, yes. Only one day they reboot somewhere else.


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## yuripv (Oct 8, 2019)

tommiie said:


> I sometimes need Windows 10 for work, mostly for Office applications, especially Visio.


You can now use all that on the web, it looks *mostly* the same as desktop versions.

EDIT: I was myself in the same boat, as skype is a work requirement (don't ask).  Now I installed chromium and web version works (and looks!) the same as Windows desktop app, which means one less showstopper for me to using FreeBSD on "desktop".


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## ralphbsz (Oct 8, 2019)

Agree, if the only reason you need Windows is Visio, the web version is convenient and inexpensive. You can also try migrating to other drawing programs, although I haven't had much success with that (my fault, haven't had the time to actually learn any of them sufficiently to use them).


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## CraigHB (Oct 8, 2019)

roccobaroccoSC said:


> Win XP and Win 7 were fine OSes, but creeping featurism and Tablet adaptations killed the OS. Now it's unusable.



I wouldn't call win10 unusable, but it does take quite a bit of tweaking to get in on par with win7 in terms of usability.  But yeah all the crazy directions win10 has gone at the same time is like a scatterbrain approach.  Makes Windows much more difficult to deal with.  Windows and FreeBSD are like polar opposites when it comes to product direction and sense of application.  

In any case I'd go Windows under bhyve rather than FreeBSD under Hyper-V.  I don't actually run any virtual machines, I use a removable boot drive, swap them out when I want to switch around.  I probably should join the 21st century and use a Virtual machine, but I've been doing it that way since the beginning and I'm old, can't seem to get past it.


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## Sevendogsbsd (Oct 8, 2019)

I used to ONLY dual boot that way: removable drives. So clean and no worrying about boot loader madness, etc. The only reason I don't do that anymore is because I have no use case for Windows 10 so don't own it or use it. 

The only virtualization I do is FreeBSD host with qemu and a couple of Linux guests.


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## toorski (Oct 9, 2019)

I sense lil'bit of hate_on_msos from few on here, like in the olden days. And yet, some others, who seem like hard core *BSD users, indicate that they need MSO$ for some reason in bhyve 
I used to hate MSO$ too, for some time, but now I have new enemy called Google 

So to keep my cool, I also do nice implementaion of Linux in FreeBSD. But, don't hate on Linux in bhyve on FreeBSD and me - lol



And yes, FreeBSD and bhyve do much better job (speed&performance) than MSO$ and Hyper-V. But, I need to play games and that's why I need and like MS Windows too


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## yuripv (Oct 9, 2019)

toorski said:


> I sense lil'bit of hate_on_msos from few on here, like in the olden days. And yet, some seem to indicate that they need msos for some reason in bhyve


It's not a hate unlike various linux forums, it's rather "I don't need to use windows" that I'm seeing here and it's perfectly normal.  I myself have both Windows and FreeBSD "desktop" systems on my desk, and love them both


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## unitrunker (Oct 9, 2019)

toorski said:


> Besides, trying FreeBSD in Hyper-V is a good start for those who have only one decent PC box with Windows 10 Pro and don't want to dual boot to learn other OS such as FreeBSD or Linux.


Excellent point.


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## Geezer (Oct 9, 2019)

toorski said:


> But, I need to play games



! !


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## tommiie (Oct 9, 2019)

yuripv said:


> You can now use all that on the web, it looks *mostly* the same as desktop versions.


I did not know there is a web version of Visio. It's not in the apps menu of Office 365 though Google does return https://office.live.com/. Weird that it's not listed with the other apps. I'll give it a go though. Thanks!


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## toorski (Oct 9, 2019)

Geezer said:


> ! !



Not only that I need to play games, I have to play certain games, because it is part of my post stroke  therapy, as per my neurologist's advice.  It hit me few years ago. And, I almost lost it when panic attacks and depression kicked in after the stroke. I had to re-learn how to read, talk, focus and walk while seeing things floating front of my eyes and bouncing against walls due to poor balance. One time, I was staring at my computer screen and getting frustrated because I was not able to read anything, not even focus my vision to watch YouTube video that was floating around. Then, I clicked my mouse somewhere on the screen, by accident, and I opened one of my PC games. When the 3D game intro popped-out, my eyes got glued to it for some reason.  Next the game menu came up and I could focus long enough to get into play mode with typical 3D games effects and eye candies. To my astonishment, I was able to actually keep my eyes on all the moving objects and rotating views to play the game with just miner visual  difficulties. I ended up playing practice mode for about 12 hours straight, because for the first time after the stroke I felt somewhat normal and OK, and I did not want the good feeling to end. So the “Savage Resurrection” PC game helped start my recovery. Now while playing, certain games help me improve my balance, eye focus, coordination, and memory as well. I’m much better now, after almost 5 years of  medical  and my own gaming therapies. My doctor is still puzzled why and only some 3D games with their visual effects are helping with my recovery. PC gaming also helped me with getting back to my other computer related activities.


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## Geezer (Oct 9, 2019)

toorski said:


> Not only that I need to play games, I have to play certain games, because it is part of my post stroke  therapy, as per my neurologist's advice.



Well, I will bow out of this thread. I cannot give any advice for medical conditions.


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## CraigHB (Oct 9, 2019)

toorski said:


> I used to hate MSO$ too, for some time, but now I have new enemy called Google



Got a chuckle out of that, I don't hate on MS anymore either, there's way worse companies out there now.  Google gets my number one spot too.

I've not "moved on" from Windows yet.  It's like being a smoker, once you've been doing it so long you can't imagine life without it.  But I did quit smoking about ten years ago (I was a heavy one) and I can say from experience it's liberating.  I imagine I'd feel the same way if I could quit Windows.


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## SirDice (Oct 9, 2019)

toorski said:


> My doctor is still puzzled why and only some 3D games with their visual effects are helping with my recovery.


Gaming improves eyesight: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...video-games-vision-correction-sight-medicine/
Gaming improves brains of the elderly: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/Healthday/video-gaming-fight-aging/story?id=9637932

Funny though, I've always been told watching too much TV is bad for your eyes.


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## Sevendogsbsd (Oct 9, 2019)

I don't hate Google or Microsoft, I just avoid using their products as much as possible. I can't avoid using Windows 10 because I have to at work. I don't have to at home though so do not own or use Windows 10. I am also a gamer but I have let go of the Windows 10 gaming teat and only play what I can on FreeBSD with wine or on my PS4. If I can't play it on either, I don't play it. I used this same idea to rid myself of all Microsoft dependencies at home years ago when I switched to Linux back in 1998. 

I like that gaming has some actual medical benefits! All the justification I need


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## sidetone (Oct 9, 2019)

Video games are good for improving memory or thought, but not always. When someone gets a concussion, their brains need heavy rest for months, and doing homework and playing video games delays their recovery, because they can be mentally intensive.


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## Crivens (Oct 9, 2019)

SirDice said:


> Funny though, I've always been told watching too much TV is bad for your eyes.


depends on what you watch. Some things call for mind bleach. But gaming is not that passive sitting around. Well, there is that real time game Voyage to Alpha Centauri, but...


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## toorski (Oct 10, 2019)

sidetone said:


> Video games are good for improving memory or thought, but not always. When someone gets a concussion, their brains need heavy rest for months, and doing homework and playing video games delays their recovery, because they can be mentally intensive.


Brain science is like the space, computer or any other so called science.  The scientific conclusions vary, change and depend on the knowledge or imagination of the expert(s). In my case medical science, can't do much . Somehow, visual effects in some 3D games are helping me, whatever it might be - science behind digital 3D motion in games or just visual effects and/or illusions that the games create, which activate and improve certain functions of my brain. Not all people react or respond the same way to the same visual presentation or intensive mental tasks. Some get mentally intense others might relax watching or doing exactly the same thing. I relax when I play PC games and get, sometimes, intense when FreeBSD doesn't work as I expect. Tho, none of those tasks  interfere with my recovery  or worsen my condition. They actually help. Games help me with visual focus and coordination of my eyes and hands. FreeBSD helps me with long term memory. It forces me to recall and retain my prior knowledge.


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## toorski (Oct 10, 2019)

Back to original topic with a question:

Why would be a good reason to implement another FreeBSD instance in FreeBSD bhyve instead of FreeBSD jail?


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## shkhln (Oct 10, 2019)

toorski said:


> Why would be a good reason to implement another FreeBSD instance in FreeBSD bhyve instead of FreeBSD jail?



Kernel development, for example.


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## sidetone (Oct 10, 2019)

toorski
Video games, homework, school work, projects, learning a job task and other projects involve mental exercise, that can be compared to physical exercise. Exercise has benefits, but there's also burnout. A weight lifter has to rest a few days to recover. If someone breaks their arm, they have to recover for 2 or more months. If one doesn't exercise mentally or physically, they atrophy. There is light exercise that when someone is physically injured that they use to get stronger, to maintain strength or to exercise other parts of their body.

There is something that I read that different mental tasks allow another function of the brain to rest and recover. So if there's mental burnout from reading, then that didn't cause a burnout for processes that use math. So, to switch between different types of mental functions from reading/writing, math. Wondering is also good, because that's when good ideas usually pop up. When you enjoy something, you can still have burnout, but it's less likely or less often. If a video game is helpful, and you made that observation, then that is science, but just not commonly referred to as science.

The case of concussion, is comparable to a physical injury that takes months to recover from, so their brains need more rest, and maybe light work for recovery.


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## CraigHB (Oct 11, 2019)

toorski said:


> Why would be a good reason to implement another FreeBSD instance in FreeBSD bhyve instead of FreeBSD jail?



Not answering the question, just back to the original topic.  I said I'd probably run Windows under bhyve before, but actually think I'd go with Xen.  FreeBSD has a port for it.

For some time I've thought about using a VM instead of swapping around boot drives. Using a VM is the modern way.  I did some reading and discovered that bhyve is actually a type 2 hypervisor and I think a bare metal type 1 like Xen would be better for me, at least for my purposes.  With type 1 my primary instance of both Windows and FreeBSD would run at the same level.

In a sense Hyper-V would be better since it's actually a bare metal hypervisor.  The only ding I'd have against Hyper-V is it's a Microsoft product.  I like Xen better only because it's open source.  That's just where my starting point would be since I have no actual experience using either of them.


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## toorski (Oct 12, 2019)

CraigHB said:


> but actually think I'd go with Xen. FreeBSD has a port for it.


I think Xen is geard more towards Linux. It's their default VM Host/ Hypervisor in almost all Linux based distribution packages. Anyways, all VMs that emulate other Operating Systems do the same thing, with more or less options and features. 
I play with bhyve in FreeBSD, Xen in Linux and Hyper-V in MSOS just to learn.


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## toorski (Oct 12, 2019)

Crivens said:


> depends on what you watch. Some things call for mind bleach. But gaming is not that passive sitting around. Well, there is that real time game Voyage to Alpha Centauri, but...



I don't watch TV, because I don't have one. There're enough commercials and news for entertainment outlets on the WWW. But, I don't watch those either 

But, I do play and condsider games for digital devices, in my case only PC, the most advanced software applications, in every aspect of multimedia software development, excluding highly specialized scientific digital modeling and analisys apps.  Here is what games provide, in most cases for less than $50 bucks:  Art, 2D/3D graphics engines, AI engines, MP engines, digital motion video, live interaction with the AI of the game or with other players to learn, solve problems, relax or just have fun. Some even get pay to play.

And yes, there are good, bad, dumb, stupid, and outright dangerous games especially for young children. Many games have hiden messages and agendas such as promoting certain ideas, products and habits like addication.  There're many highly educated and skilled manipulators in the game of developing games. But, the same goes for the rest of cyber world - Google, Facebook, MS, Apple, IBM .. etc. They play their own MP games on the global scale to win influence, acces, power and money, while gaming every one and anyone along the way - kids, men, women and all other gender benders


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