# Killing Time in Meetings



## newbie32 (Jan 27, 2015)

Long story short, my company's new client has been eating our time in meetings apparently attempting to figure out how full cycle embedded development against standards actually works. They attempted all sorts of meetings to try and figure out how to push more of their work on us, which we typically spend doodling or rolling our eyes (since we're going to pick up the work anyway). I've NEVER had to deal with this many meetings for basic items with another dev team before. I actually caught myself falling asleep since the only thing I was directing was who was reading the PRs to them since they're "too busy" to read them prior. As the clients remote-in (the two teams are on different coasts), we can have our phones off-side in the conference room but the wifi is spotty. 

So what do you folks do when caught in these dreaded bore-fests? 

So far, the most interesting things to happen have been tic-tac-toe on the white board and hopes that the East Coast blizzard would shut the building down.


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## obsigna (Jan 27, 2015)

Getting bored by the clients is the initial step for getting out of the business.


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## SirDice (Jan 27, 2015)

newbie32 said:


> So what do you folks do when caught in these dreaded bore-fests?


Bullshit Bingo


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## tingo (Jan 27, 2015)

getopt: you don't always get the answers you wanted 
newbie32: you must be going to the wrong kind of meetings, compared to the meetings I participate in. Mine are filled with interesting subjects and lively discussion.


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## newbie32 (Jan 28, 2015)

getopt: The purpose is to crowd source some ideas to keep people entertained during these meetings to avoid people falling totally asleep. When 4 out of 5 guys in the room are literally fighting to stay awake, we can only use the "we need a minute on that" excuse to wake them back up so often. Pretty much doesn't work at all if I'm the one that falls asleep. We're also not trying to give them any justifications on setting up more of these time wasters which "we need a minute" does.

tingo: Count your blessings then. I've been to plenty that have been absolutely productive and just as many so worthless that I got an apology from the client for dragging us in. In this case, EVERYTHING that has been "discussed" has started with "well that's not a problem...", ended on "we'll get a fix for that", and would have been best answered through the PR (which is how we're doing it during the meetings anyway!) or through a quick email exchange. And never have we had so many in a row like this.

SirDice: Bless you sir, bless you! Guess what's going on the copier later 

And if anyone else is looking for a hidden motive, colour this a cheap excuse to entertain us with your stories of meeting woes.


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## Crivens (Jan 28, 2015)

It looks like you need to bring in the Expert for these meetings. But Maybe the best way for the OP to deal with this is a nice talk with the project leader and asking him for advice. This shows that he cares for the situation and wants input, and maybe you may find a solution that way. Maybe you can bring your laptop and do some work, or be the one that has to play some role to give the message to the customer. The customer usually also wants to have a clear statement, and if that is "This is boring, it costs YOUR money, and we may have to increase our hourly rate because of these meetings" may bring them in.


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## scottro (Jan 28, 2015)

I remember seeing a post where someone asked for some simple instructions on parental controls, (not this forum--some Linux one, I think) and there was a 5 page thread about how they should raise their kids (though the OP was asking because their relative had asked).

It seems to me, speaking as a grouchy old person, that the person asked, casually, and probably in a light vein, What do you folks do in boring meetings.  Not, how can I make these meetings less boring, not How can I avoid meetings.  Again, just my very grouchy opinion--even worse than usual as I have a cold, but it does seem to me that we're just lecturing the poor person. Some people have meetings that, for whatever reason, they must attend.  It doesn't mean that they hate their job, or that they must take it up with management.


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## Crivens (Jan 29, 2015)

scottro, right you are!
When I wrote the advice to contact the project lead about that, it was from my own experience. Sometimes all persons involved think that it is only them who are bored, and continue with such meetings. The rest is just soooo god in daydreaming and looking busy. But once there is an understanding that a lot of participants find these meetings unproductive, the meetings may be dealt with. See, I prefer adapting my surrounding to me (as long as I do not step on anyones toes), not the other way around. My first choice would be to stop those useless meetings. Second choice would be to make them more bearable. And there are so many ways in wasting the time - simply ask any school kid what to do in class. But topmost, I consider sitting in a meeting and playing angry birds, reading the newspaper or otherwise _not paying attention_ to be unpolite to all the others there. But I also consider it unpolite to be dragged to such meetings when they clearly have no purpose and I have to waste my time. But when you are brought in just in case that you can answer one question or two, as an 'Expert', then the rest of participants should not bother if you _are_ really reading manuals or documents, or quietly browse some code. Things are complicated most of the time, and we simply do not have enough information to judge the situation properly - so we resort to humor.


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## newbie32 (Jan 29, 2015)

In my case it is a matter of "required appeasing" by my management who are already aware, and agree, that these are total time wasters. For illustration of what's going on, a violation of their standards and of the safety level they are attempting to build for, they called it a non-issue for the stated reason "we inherited the code." Half an hour of debate on their side, none on my team even spoke in that whole time, they finally agreed that they would have to fix it after all. They then proceeded to spend a half hour on the next issue, claiming the code was fine based on the title of the problem report, until they opened the PR at our suggestion, the only time I spoke, and actually read it to discover that yup, it was a problem. It took them another half hour to figure out who was going to fix it in which again we had zero input. Two PRs, 1.5 hours, and we spoke a total of 8 times on my side. Took about 5 minutes for us.

I'm totally going to be bringing in my BS bingo card as that at least gives me something to look forward to during today's hour long torture session


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## roddierod (Jan 29, 2015)

Seriously, has no one other than the OP and myself sat in "technical" meetings with the director of this department and manager of that department where the actually go on for 20 or 25 minutes about the placement or none placement of a comma in a warning message to the user.   Or CIO going on about which shade of gray is better to use.

Oh, and let not even mention meetings that include corporate lawyers...you could be there for hours as they bring up every possible lawsuit or regulatory act because of incorrect wording.


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## roddierod (Jan 29, 2015)

My thinking is that the OP is asking how people cope with the situation, not how to go into a meeting a tell the people in the meeting that this meeting is not productive and how to switch the focus...when in a number of cases that could be far more detrimental to your current job, especially if you are a jr member of the organization.

I don't care how much you get paid and how much you love your job, there is going to be times of boredom and learning to cope with that is part of your job experience.


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## Crivens (Jan 29, 2015)

roddierod said:


> Seriously, has no one other than the OP and myself sat in "technical" meetings with the director of this department and manager of that department where the actually go on for 20 or 25 minutes about the placement or none placement of a comma in a warning message to the user.   Or CIO going on about which shade of gray is better to use.


Yes, I have. 
Having a note book, pen, and an idea how to go about the last theorem of Fermat can be a huge help there.


> Oh, and let not even mention meetings that include corporate lawyers...you could be there for hours as they bring up every possible lawsuit or regulatory act because of incorrect wording.


 You know the "cleaning woman!!!" scene from "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid"?


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## roddierod (Jan 29, 2015)

Crivens said:


> Yes, I have.
> Having a note book, pen, and an idea how to go about the last theorem of Fermat can be a huge help there.



Ah man...I used to use a similar Fermat last theorem line, someone pointed out to me that there was actually an accepted solution a few years ago.

Never seen "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid"


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## Crivens (Jan 30, 2015)

roddierod said:


> Ah man...I used to use a similar Fermat last theorem line, someone pointed out to me that there was actually an excepted solution a few years ago.
> 
> Never seen "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid"


The review of the proof is still under way, as far as I recall. But when it comes to the movie, the loss is yours! Brilliantly cut, so you can see Bogart again, and to understand my quote there - check youtube for "steve martin cleaning woman".


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## qsecofr (Feb 1, 2015)

meetings: http://www.despair.com/meetings.html


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## igorino (Feb 5, 2015)

Oh god! I remember when, during a ultra-duper-4k-boring meeting with the director's board, my head fell asleep in the table. I still feel ashamed of that time!


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## newbie32 (Feb 11, 2015)

igorino: Wow. Seen some nod off with clients before, never at a director's board. Have to try that sometime with my boss in the room


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## Carpetsmoker (Feb 11, 2015)

I just say the meeting is a waste of time and suggest a more constructive way to proceed. Politely, of course. And the 2nd part is probably the most important.

May not work for you, though ... the Dutch seem to be well known for their directness & honesty...


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