# Dell cripples its latest business laptops with 'casual' keyboard layout



## vermaden (Apr 26, 2011)

_"A picture is worth a thousand words"_, so here are the details:

*Dell Latitude E6*10* (E6410/E6510/...):






*Dell Latitude E6*20* (E6420/E6520/...):





In other words ... no more 'classical' navigation keys layout like that:

[INS] [HOM] [PGU]
 [END] [PGD]

With that 'improvement' Dell business laptops became 'just another laptop' instead of a real ThinkPad rival, if You want to get real Dell business laptop, then E6*10 series is last of the models to have *REAL* business keyboard to work with, the newer models are just toys, move on (like ThinkPad EDGE to be precise).


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## SirDice (Apr 26, 2011)

At least they're still there. Try looking for those keys on a MacBook Pro.


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## vermaden (Apr 26, 2011)

SirDice said:
			
		

> At least they're still there. Try looking for those keys on a MacBook Pro.



If I would have to choose between that crippled Dell E6*20 and Macbook Pro ... I would not wonder for a minute and choose a Macbook Pro (even if I hate the Mac OS X keybindings thru).

I will just stick to ThinkPad T series I think or older Dell Latitude models.


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## SirDice (Apr 26, 2011)

I've got my MBP quite some time ago and I'm still not used to missing those keys. 
I can never remember if it's Fn + left/right/up/down or CMD + left/right/up/down or Alt or Alt+Cmd.

Drives me nuts.

That's the only drawback though, easily fixed at home by using a full sized external keyboard :e


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## vermaden (Apr 26, 2011)

I have used MBP for about a year at work, also with 'classic' IBM PC keyboard only, I also struggled with the shortcuts, especially with text editing, have gone back to FreeBSD and Dell Latitude E6400 on which I still am very happy (and very sad at the same that Dell also went the 'marketing' way instead of the 'right' way).

Its generally very strange decision for me because Dell already had such 'series' named Vostro, almost business laptops with 'casual gaming/multimedia keyboard', why they made that decision is a big enigma for me. Look at the Lenovo on the other side, they introduced the ThinkPad L/SL/EDGE series of laptop while even improving their flagship ThinkPad T/X keyboard (bigger ESC/DEL keys).

I think that a big shoot in the knee for Dell.


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## tingo (Apr 26, 2011)

At least those Dells have a pointing stick, not just the horrible touchpad that almost nobody uses (oh, come on - admit that you are using an external mouse).


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## vermaden (Apr 26, 2011)

tingo said:
			
		

> At least those Dells have a pointing stick, not just the horrible touchpad that almost nobody uses (oh, come on - admit that you are using an external mouse).



I use touchpad, I have tried to use _pointing stick_ on my E6400 but I removed the stick from the keyboard, but I also did not liked the 'stick' at the Lenovo X300 that I had, I am just a 'touchpad guy' if it comes to laptop, but mouse is a nice thingy


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## aragon (Apr 27, 2011)

Seems trivial to me.  I find it more annoying when keyboards have the Fn key where Ctrl should be, or their enter key taking up the space where the pipe/backslash key should be, or a small backspace key.  Small right shifts are also pretty annoying.


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## vermaden (Apr 27, 2011)

aragon said:
			
		

> Seems trivial to me.  I find it more annoying when keyboards have the Fn key where Ctrl should be



At least these two ThinkPad laptops allows to switch using a BIOS option


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## willpower101 (Sep 7, 2011)

The new location of page up and page down is actually the most amazing innovation I've used on a keyboard in a while. I constantly switch between up/down and pgup/pgdn while programming or reading. Also if you don't like them, remap them to something else useful.


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## jrm@ (Sep 7, 2011)

tingo said:
			
		

> At least those Dells have a pointing stick.



http://xkcd.com/243/


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## LateNiteTV (Sep 7, 2011)

lmaooooooooooooooooooo. "clit mouse". That's awesome.


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## vermaden (Sep 8, 2011)

willpower101 said:
			
		

> Also if you don't like them, remap them to something else useful.



Ok mate, then find me 6 keys with 3 x 2 layout on top of the new Dell keyboard that I can remap into proper INS/DEL + HOME/END + PGUP/PGDN layout ...


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## Slurp (Sep 8, 2011)

vermaden said:
			
		

> Ok mate, then find me 6 keys with 3 x 2 layout on top of the new Dell keyboard that I can remap into proper INS/DEL + HOME/END + PGUP/PGDN layout ...




```
[-] [=] [Backspace]
[[] []] [\]
```


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## ramonovski (Sep 8, 2011)

I tought the _clit mouse_ was a ThinkPad exclusive. That might be the worst navigation tool ever.


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## vermaden (Sep 8, 2011)

Slurp said:
			
		

> ```
> [-] [=] [Backspace]
> [[] []] [\]
> ```



But I need those too You know


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## willpower101 (Sep 8, 2011)

vermaden said:
			
		

> Ok mate, then find me 6 keys with 3 x 2 layout on top of the new Dell keyboard that I can remap into proper INS/DEL + HOME/END + PGUP/PGDN layout ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hmm, I didn't really think about it for people who actually want those keys back.
Nor where they would go 

I think of it more like. 
I never need quick access to insert.
Delete is already in the location that I need it for quick access to.
And pgup pgdn are in a great location where I can use them all the time without having to kinetically learn an alternative hand position to find them.


I think if I wanted something similar, I'd leave delete and insert alone and map either:
Alt+pgup/pgdn >> home/end
or Ctrl+up/dn or Ctrl+L/R >> home end.

I dunno. Just a thought.


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## willpower101 (Sep 8, 2011)

Kinesthetically* (wth autocorrect) On my old lappy I find myself always fumbling around in the dark for pgup/pgdn cause they are horizontally where + and Enter on a numpad would normally be.


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## vermaden (Sep 8, 2011)

> Alt+pgup/pgdn >> home/end or Ctrl+up/dn or Ctrl+L/R >> home end.


On a first thought ... not bad idea, but if You use GEANY or EMACS where a lot shortcuts require ALT or CTRL as modifiers, then ...


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## fonz (Sep 8, 2011)

vermaden said:
			
		

> but if You use GEANY or EMACS _[snip]_ then ...


Well, then... don't :e

Fonz (sorry, just couldn't resist - strong the dark side is)


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## jrm@ (Sep 9, 2011)

ramonovski said:
			
		

> I tought the _clit mouse_ was a ThinkPad exclusive. That might be the worst navigation tool ever.



I much prefer the clit mouse over a track pad. You never run out of real estate (it sucks when, say, you're dragging a window and reach the edge of the pad).  On my old IBM R51, I even prefer the clit mouse to an external usb mouse.  With the clit mouse you don't even have to move your hands from the home row.


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## NewGuy (Sep 9, 2011)

I don't see the problem. The pictures of the Dell keyboard shown above look fine to me.


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## vermaden (Sep 10, 2011)

@NewGuy

Focus on the top-right part


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## NewGuy (Sep 11, 2011)

I did. I even zoomed in for a closer look. Maybe I just don't use the keys you're missing? Everything I want seem to be there. Don't get me wrong, if you don't like the keyboard, I'm not trying to sell you on it, I'm just saying that, for me, it looks like it would do the job.


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## vermaden (Sep 11, 2011)

@NewGuy

The missing keys are:
[INS] [HOM] [PGU]
 [END] [PGD]


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## willpower101 (Sep 11, 2011)

vermaden said:
			
		

> @NewGuy
> 
> The missing keys are:
> [INS] [HOM] [PGU]
> [END] [PGD]




More like they're out of normal placement. Not missing.


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## NewGuy (Sep 11, 2011)

I see. Well, I notice there are insert and delete, page up and page down keys on there. And they're in the positions I'm used to. (I'm guessing that's the difference, you don't like that they're not duplicated in a group by themselves?) I never use home/end.... So, yeah, this keyboard would be fine for me. My currently laptop has a similar layout as the one pictures above (though mine has a number pad) and it's been fine for my purposes.


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## vermaden (Sep 12, 2011)

willpower101 said:
			
		

> More like they're out of normal placement. Not missing.



That is why the thread topic is _'(...) keyboard layout'_ and not _'(...) missing keys'_


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## willpower101 (Sep 13, 2011)

vermaden said:
			
		

> @NewGuy
> 
> The missing keys are:
> [INS] [HOM] [PGU]
> [END] [PGD]




and that's exactly why you said "*The missing keys are:*"... get it straight.


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## vermaden (Jan 10, 2012)

The last bastion of productive computing has fallen ... the new *'ThinkPad' T430*







RIP ThinkPad.

Seems that going to Macbook + Mac OS X isn't that bad idea now ...


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## sim (Jan 19, 2012)

vermaden said:
			
		

> The last bastion of productive computing has fallen ... the new *'ThinkPad' T430*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ugh, what the hell is that?  Since IBM days Thinkpads have long been renowned for their keyboard, with a great feel and good solid build.  Next they'll be ditching the nipple (one of two red-line features in my choice of laptop). I'll be sticking with my T510 thanks.

/sim (unimpressed)


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