# Which FreeBSD-compatible proprietary software would you buy?



## dbdemon (Mar 20, 2021)

I'm curious about attitudes towards proprietary software: Is there any proprietary software for which you'd consider buying a licence?

To be clear, I don't mean an online service where you're really paying for the storage or CPU or similar, even though it may also be providing useful features like in an online photo album software. 
I mean software like e.g. a text editor, a database admin tool or a web application such as Xenforo.


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## Jose (Mar 20, 2021)

US Tax preparation software.


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## ct85711 (Mar 20, 2021)

There is some proprietary software that I would buy, mostly because there is a void of other solutions otherwise.     Like one software category I often have to deal with, is embroidery.  This category is very heavily proprietary in everything that is done, even the file formats are all brand/version specific.  It doesn't help that community is a so tiny that there is no incentive of a 3rd party company to add an alternative.


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## zirias@ (Mar 20, 2021)

I wouldn't buy any. But that mostly depends on your usecases. I'd expect to see highly specialized software in this thread. For more "common" tasks, there's a LOT of high-quality free and open-source software to choose from


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## Mjölnir (Mar 20, 2021)

Jose said:


> US Tax preparation software.


Well, I already wrote in my PP: _"Only the poor pay taxes.  The rich donate.  I decided to be rich; it just feels better..."_   We have that joke: _"Which one is the thickest book on earth?  -- The german tax laws..."_

Back on topic:  Decades ago, I had a license for _Sniff++_, a full-featured C/C++ IDE.  I'd be willing to pay for such stuff _iff_ it outperforms devel/kdevelop (which is hard to do IMHO). But no matter what, open data formats are a must-have, i.e. I wouldn't buy anything that uses proprietary data formats for the data that I want to access. That's a no-go. Internal application data that is of no interest to me is a different story.  But OTT, I insist on open data formats.


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## Phishfry (Mar 20, 2021)

FoxIt








						Free PDF Reader & Viewer - Online Download | Foxit Software
					

The best free PDF reader & viewer used by over 700 million users. Download Foxit PDF Reader for Windows, Mac, Android & more today!



					www.foxitsoftware.com
				




I use pdf's alot and need good tools.


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## kpedersen (Mar 20, 2021)

I only pay for software I *want* to run and that almost always excludes proprietary stuff because it is often of a terrible quality.

However if I really had to choose, then probably VirtualBox (commercial extensions) to get the USB 2.x + passthrough. I could certainly make use of that, and I know the quality of the code is fairly satisfactory judging by the rest of the software.

I know MATLAB would go a long way at getting FreeBSD more traction in universities. I don't personally use the software but it would certainly provide an indirect benefit.


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## Crivens (Mar 20, 2021)

Jose said:


> US Tax preparation software.


*laughs in german tax law*
Any SW capable of handeling that correctly can solve the halting problem while icing the touring test.

But on topic, I would buy good RPGs. Speech assistants w.o. cloud dependence.


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## eternal_noob (Mar 20, 2021)

Widevine browser plugin.


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## Deleted member 30996 (Mar 20, 2021)

Nothing. Not at any price but free as in FreeBSD  Or free as in Law of the Sea for me.


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## Mjölnir (Mar 20, 2021)

Trihexagonal said:


> Nothing. Not at any price but free as in FreeBSD  Or free as in Law of the Sea for me.


Clearly OT, but interesting (& we're in OT anyway): You'd be surprised about the complexity of the internationally commited _Laws of the Sea_... Any ship (_de jure_ called _water craft_ or s/th like that; incl. hovercrafts & aircrafts flying _very_ low!) is under the law of the nationality of it's owner (shown by it's flag), unless in a harbour or _"tightened to land"_ i.e. anchoring or tightened at a pier/dock/jetty/mole or the like.  Naturally, any rule has exceptions: when in the 200-mile zone (so-called _exclusive commerce zone_), the respective laws have to be followed (e.g. foreign fishermen ought to have a license), and when in the 12-mile zone, the tax tarrif/toll/custom/duty laws of the respective country apply, i.e. you must grant the resp. authorities permission to enter & check your ship*; OTT, the laws of the flag of the ship still apply...  Now the interesting Q would be: what happens when a poor bastard who is nation-less owns a ship?

EDIT * they gotta check that all that cocaine & ganja is within the resp. legal bounds for your personal enlightenment


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## tyson (Mar 20, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> Widevine browser plugin.


That one for sure !


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## sidetone (Mar 20, 2021)

An office suite, provided that it can print and be used on FreeBSD through wine or another compatibility layer, such as: Word Perfect, or Broderbund Office Suite. Libreoffice as the open source one is good though.


If such a thing exists, a program to read DRM ebooks. Now for some books, there's no way, except to read them on a dinky phone screen. I bought C Unleashed a while ago from the publisher in digital form, because they no longer had the book available in physical form. I'll settle with a different ebook or physical book.

A commercial software licensed by those that have rights to catalogs of movies that would allow me to watch their DRM movies as well, if one came into existence. This one won't happen. This one also isn't necessary as I can change my TV's input to a Roku stick.

Video games perhaps, provided that I know they'll work. Maybe I could buy Sega Saturn games at Gamestop and play them through an emulator.


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## Mjölnir (Mar 21, 2021)

sidetone said:


> An office suite, provided that it can print and be used on FreeBSD through wine or another compatibility layer, such as: Word Perfect, or Broderbund Office Suite. Libreoffice as the open source one is good though.


Didn't we have that _SoftMaker_'s TextMaker et.al. (SoftMaker office suite) in the ports(7) tree?  The wikipedia entry still lists FreeBSD as a supported platform.


sidetone said:


> If such a thing exists, a program to read DRM ebooks. Now for some books, there's no way, except to read them on a dinky phone screen. I bought C Unleashed a while ago from the publisher in digital form, because they no longer had the book available in physical form. I'll settle with another ebook or physical book.
> 
> A commercial software licensed by those that have rights to catalogs of movies that would allow me to watch their DRM movies as well, if one came into existence. This one won't happen. This one also isn't necessary as I can change my TV's input to a Roku stick.


We have that idiom/phrase: _"Copy kills music"_ i.e., artists/creators have to pay their bills, too.


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## kpedersen (Mar 21, 2021)

Mjölnir said:


> We have that idiom/phrase: _"Copy kills music"_ i.e., artists/creators have to pay their bills, too.


It is sad because I used to pay for a lot more stuff before DRM entered the equation. Now, I simply will not engage with it. I can't imagine that is helping anyone.


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## Beastie7 (Mar 21, 2021)

Starcraft 2


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## Mjölnir (Mar 21, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> It is sad because I used to pay for a lot more stuff before DRM entered the equation. Now, I simply will not engage with it. I can't imagine that is helping anyone.


Absolutely right! I remember I went crazy when I wasn't able to download again a (song/movie/book, don't remember) that I paid for, after a fresh installation (system crash, L*x...) on the very same machine.  That's offensive!  Theft!  Robbery!  They fooled me!  There have to be smarter ways than this crude DRM crap.


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## sidetone (Mar 21, 2021)

Mjölnir said:


> Didn't we have that _SoftMaker_'s TextMaker et.al. (SoftMaker office suite) in the ports(7) tree?  The wikipedia entry still lists FreeBSD as a supported platform.


The port editors/softmaker-office expired in 2014. WordPerfect is really good. I'm also familiar with the brandname Broderbund, so its worth a try.


Mjölnir said:


> We have that idiom/phrase: _"Copy kills music"_ i.e., artists/creators have to pay their bills, too.


To pay for it of course, with the same service I pay Hulu, Redbox, Sling or Netflix. That's why I said commercially licensed software by those who have rights to the movies. It won't happen.


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## kpedersen (Mar 21, 2021)

Mjölnir said:


> There have to be smarter ways than this crude DRM crap.


Whoever comes up with the solution to this will be a very rich person indeed. Something that guarantees lifetime access but also prevents piracy.


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## sidetone (Mar 21, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> Whoever comes up with the solution to this will be a very rich person indeed. Something that guarantees lifetime access but also prevents piracy.


The honor system. j/k


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## Mjölnir (Mar 21, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> Whoever comes up with the solution to this will be a very rich person indeed. Something that guarantees lifetime access but also prevents piracy.


As I told, I do already _feel_ rich, but nevertheless I'll ponder on this anyway.


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## aragats (Mar 21, 2021)

Mjölnir said:


> We have that idiom/phrase: _"Copy kills music"_ i.e., artists/creators have to pay their bills, too.


Don't they get just 25-30%?..


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## Mjölnir (Mar 21, 2021)

aragats said:


> Don't they get just 25-30%?..


I did NEVER state that capitalism is _"the best system invented by mankind"_ like some other guy did (namely, he _imploringly interceded_ publicly on TV (I'm referring to 11:40+) after the 2007/8/9 financial crash*: J.W. Bush jr., then POTUS, now (within the regular meeting of former POTUSes) co-psychotherapist to that _T-clown_; FWIW the german Treasury Secretary/Finance Minister stated publicly: _"I looked into human abysses"_ in a press conference). Please donate anonymously _in memoriam_ The Honourable Elinor Ostrom (feel free to scroll & read up & down) like I did. 1-25US-$ is better than nothing.  It's about the statement, right?!
EDIT: I do not know how much (in ¢) marketing & all that stuff is necessary for one $ turnover/revenue in the music/movie/entertainment world.  Eventually, that 25-30% is justified?
EDIT *) also interesting what the wizzards say (just scratching the surface; many wise guy state: Karl Marx was a brilliant analyst).


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## aragats (Mar 21, 2021)

Mjölnir said:


> Please donate anonymously


I always do (-;


Mjölnir said:


> Eventually, that 25-30% is justified?


Well, at least before the pandemics, many musicians didn't care about such kind of income and even "wellcomed" the piracy since it's popularizes them more. Of course, the last year they probably lost a lot...


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## Mjölnir (Mar 21, 2021)

I like smileys that can be read viewn from left to to right or the other way around.  Mine is `=|o)`


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## Deleted member 30996 (Mar 21, 2021)

Mjölnir said:


> There have to be smarter ways than this crude DRM crap.


I outlined it already.


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## Crivens (Mar 21, 2021)

aragats said:


> Don't they get just 25-30%?..


Didn't you forget the decimal points?


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## tuxador (Mar 21, 2021)

Osirix dicom suite, for medical imaging


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## hruodr (Mar 21, 2021)

Perhaps drivers for special hardware with the hardware? Specialised software?


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## a6h (Mar 21, 2021)

Nothing. But I wish we had _Cockos Reaper_ and _Tixati._
Also I missed _Focusrite_ and _Digitech_ drivers, mixer, ....


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## jmos (Mar 21, 2021)

My wishlist for software is empty (although … the return of the Seamonkey port!), so: At the moment I wouldn't buy any software. The main problem on commercial software to me is: It's a block box.

I'm not using free software because of the money, but because of trust. A black box can read all my files (even SSH keys) and send them home. And while it's running (if it's in the background and/or as inactive window) it also can listen to anything I'm doing on my computer. My whole environment is only as secure and/or trustworthy as the crappiest software on my computer is. And there's a lot of software on my computers… ("ps aux | wc -l": 108).

F.e. using Windows 10 means to me: Anything on that machine could be known by a company, and I have no clue where my data is. So I'm handling none relevant data on that VM (only a test environment). Same for Android or Chrome - I expect anything to be known by a company; So, to me "open source" alone is not the game changer - the company itself and its intention has to be trustworthy, too. In my opinion, it's irresponsible to work with customer data on systems from such manufacturers!

I paid for a scanner software on Linux - and I would pay for it again. I don't like the fact that it's closed source, but so far it has real benefits over any other sane frontend I've seen. And: I *want* the developer to continue. (But so far there's no FreeBSD version…)

…but when I see how many trackers some developers and small companies implement even in payed (!) Android apps… My basic attitude towards closed source and/or commercial is: It may meet my requirements, but it's not acting in my interest. Therefore, commercial software has a hard time with me - the companies used up all bonus points long time ago. Their fault.


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## mickey (Mar 21, 2021)

Games of course


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## Lamia (Mar 21, 2021)

MicroLogix/RSlogix  software


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## Lamia (Mar 21, 2021)

Lamia said:


> MicroLogix/RSlogix  software


And if as anyone knows a competitive device against Allen-Bradley that has its suite completely available in Unix(*BSD), that would be appreciated.


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## eternal_noob (Mar 21, 2021)

An application with a single button which when pressed forces Stallman to shave his beard.


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## Deleted member 30996 (Mar 21, 2021)

jmos said:


> I paid for a scanner software on Linux - and I would pay for it again. I don't like the fact that it's closed source, but so far it has real benefits over any other sane frontend I've seen. And: I *want* the developer to continue. (But so far there's no FreeBSD version…)


What does it do that security/nmap does not do for free?


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## jmos (Mar 21, 2021)

Trihexagonal said:


> What does it do that security/nmap does not do for free?


That scanner doesn't scan networks, but paper


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## Lamia (Mar 21, 2021)

jmos said:


> That scanner doesn't scan networks, but paper


I thought xsane/sane-backends/sane-frontends does a good job at that.


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## ralphbsz (Mar 21, 2021)

What do I pay for? Not very much. For compatibility reasons, I used to have a full license for Microsoft Office, because in some cases you have to work with files that are in their formats, and be 100% compatible. I still have that package installed on one Mac that I use, but I'm finding that I need it less and less (probably once or twice a year now), so in the future I wouldn't pay for it.

I would (and do) pay for a good drawing/sketching package. Something much more powerful than the little free sketching stuff you get with any office package, but not as complex as a full mechanical CAD package. I have been traditionally using Visio for this, and I still have dozens of files in Visio format that occasionally get updated (some large and complex). Given that compatibility with the file format is absolutely necessary, this means having a licensed copy of Visio.

If I was doing heavy audio or video editing (some friends of mine are), it seems that the only good software for that requires paid licenses. The kind of thing that can take several hundred audio tracks and mix and synchronize a perfect recording, and take hundreds of video takes and make a movie with heavy compositing. If you look on youtube for recordings of full symphony orchestras made at home, you see what I mean.



Jose said:


> US Tax preparation software.


I used to do that. These days I instead do all the tax calculations by hand, and then fill out the (PDF) forms with a simple PDF editor. It takes a bit of time (a dozen long evenings), but it gives me a feeling of control that can't be matched by an automated process.



sidetone said:


> An office suite, provided that ...


As I said above, I used to have that. But the real reason was file format compatibility. Today, the freely available versions on the web / in the cloud are perfectly adequate for my needs.

(About DRM ...)


kpedersen said:


> Whoever comes up with the solution to this will be a very rich person indeed. Something that guarantees lifetime access but also prevents piracy.


The guy who has the patent on the DRM used for DVDs was a friend of mine. He retired and moved far away. He was not very rich, but comfortably upper middle class, and he'll never be poor. He got a good salary, and when that patent turned out to be one of the most valuable patents in the world, his employer gave him a generous bonus.


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## roper (Mar 21, 2021)

I can't think of anything but it's possible. I have a licensed Winzip.


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## kpedersen (Mar 21, 2021)

roper said:


> I can't think of anything but it's possible. I have a licensed Winzip.


Heh, you are one of the very few!

Actually I must confess, I own a WinRAR license! However, this was for making a Wine based Linux port for the original developer a while back. My name is immortalized here: https://www.rarlab.com/rar_add.htm


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## a6h (Mar 22, 2021)

ralphbsz said:


> If I was doing heavy audio or video editing (some friends of mine are), it seems that the only good software for that requires paid licenses. The kind of thing that can take several hundred audio tracks and mix and synchronize a perfect recording, and take hundreds of video takes and make a movie with heavy compositing. If you look on youtube for recordings of full symphony orchestras made at home, you see what I mean.



I have to comment on this one. It's an important point. I restrict myself to music production. I make the case that the idea of FOSS in Audio/Music production is too futuristic. I'm cynical.

1. _Pro Tools_ is de facto in music studios. If you go to studio you're expecting to see _Pro Tools_. If they want to hire you, you supposed to know how to use it. There's no work around. On the extreme cases, you may see some _Cubase_ setup too. That's more common in home studios.

2. My knowledge is not up-to-date, but I remember some versions of software was tied to specific hardware (licencing), e.g. _M-Audio_ cards.

3. Over the years, you setup a perfect unit/hardware combination. You just can't swap it for another one to work with new software. It doesn't work like that way. e.g. compressor unit.

4. Music workflow for each project is a combination of Midi, audio, sound (non-digital), Virtual Instruments, and Mixing/Mastering setup. Generally:
* You gather them over the years.
* You use/tweak them on next projects.
* Practically, they un-exporatble. Even between similar softwares on same platform, e.g. Pro Tools <-> Cubase

5. On Virtual Instruments (effects unit, etc) aka _VST_ in Cubase terminology:
* The top ones are emulation of real hardware. e.g. _Waves_ plugins.
* Lots of patents I suppose, and for sure a lot of engineering (audio) works.
* You can't simply export saved knobs/setup from Unit A to Unit B.
* They work in combination with other tracks and units (mixing stage). Ask any sound engineering, they won't swap units, not a single one.

6. On Virtual Instruments aka _VSTi_ in Cubase terminology:
* The top ones are sampling from real instruments. e.g. _Vienna Symphonic Library_
* Which implies: you need massive amount of capital to record such things (musician, engineer, studio, equipment, etc)

7. Every sound engineer has an artistic signature (I'm not talking of hash function!) -- Natural Talent and experience are dominated factors, but:
* It's a combination of audio, sound (not digital), midi (in related to specific VSTi) recorded/saved settings in workflow, and finally mixing and mastering stage.
* Most of them are tied to some specific software/hardware mixture, which is developed over the years.
* During life time of a studio, massive amount of capital is spendend.

8. On testing new equipment/setup (both software, and hardware):
Most Audio/Music production studio are very conservative on using new things in their setup -- permanently. And they should.
Sound is unforgivable. One mistake, and your reputation is down to the toilet.

[EDIT]/Footnote:

* audio != sound
* VSTi != VST
* I used Cubase terminology to explain my points.
* VST is Steinberg's interface. Avid (Pro tools) was using RTAS, and now AAX DSP.
* Emulating an actual real hardware (audio/sound unit) is not something you could learn in school. There're very few people who are able to do that. It's not just a matter of engineering. And it's not just a one-to-one function between hardware and software. That's why generally speaking most of the available Virtual Instruments (both proprietary, and non-proprietary) are garbage. Only few handful of them are used in large studio. They are very picky, and again they should.


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## BostonBSD (Mar 22, 2021)

I always admired the LTSP project from Linux, I'd probably pay for BSD software that performs the same, but if I looked hard enough I'd probably find out someone has already done this.

The Arduino IDE software on FreeBSD, the last I checked, isn't quite as simple as with Linux, I'd probably pay for that.

I'd probably pay for simple applications that communicate with proprietary peripheral devices such as Iphones, tablets, arduino, LED signs, model railroad control systems, etc.

An automated animal feed, watering, & waste removal control system [rabbits are far more enjoyable when all you have to do is pet them].

BSD software that runs Android apps on x86/amd64 or Arm64 [this would remove an entire list of possible suggestions, borrowing code from qemu might be helpful...although I guess it wouldn't be proprietary then].

Some really good optimization software would be useful also [deterministic optimization/linear programming, probabilistic optimization].  MIT? has something called LP solve, which works, but something more user-friendly and general would be very nice (optimize financial portfolios, scheduling, etc).


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## sidetone (Mar 22, 2021)

vigole said:


> 7. Every sound engineer has an artistic signature (I'm not talking of hash function!) -- Natural Talent and experience are dominated factors, but:
> * It's a combination of audio, sound (not digital), midi (in related to specific VSTi) recorded/saved settings in workflow, and finally mixing and mastering stage.
> * Most of them are tied to some specific software/hardware mixture, which is developed over the years.
> * During life time of a studio, massive amount of capital is spendend.
> ...


You know, Wyclef Jean took apart musical equipment and put it back together in a modified way. He figured, everyone doesn't know what a specific model is supposed to sound like, so he made his own variation of sounds from the musical equipment, and made a record that way. To him, it didn't matter that the model was supposed to sound an exact way, just that his variation, which is different than what the model was intended to make, sounds good.


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## aragats (Mar 22, 2021)

ralphbsz said:


> These days I instead do all the tax calculations by hand, and then fill out the (PDF) forms with a simple PDF editor. It takes a bit of time (a dozen long evenings), but it gives me a feeling of control that can't be matched by an automated process.


Yes, I do it by hand too, but I hate PDF editing. I use the original PDF form as a background image for spreadsheets (I use LibreOffice). So, once you spend time adding formulas, then next year you just adjust your spreadsheets a little to accommodate a couple of new lines and change its background.

Back to the topic: it seems that more and more financial software vendors switch to online functionality. The same TurboTax lets you do everything online ― no need to have a specific version for FreeBSD.


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## a6h (Mar 22, 2021)

sidetone said:


> so he made his own variation of sounds from the musical equipment, and made a record that way.


No argument against innovation. Bach's The Well-Tempered Clavier (Das wohltemperierte Klavier) was unorthodox at his time. Moving away from _Meantone _to current convention, which is standard for 300 years.


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## jmos (Mar 22, 2021)

ralphbsz said:


> If I was doing heavy audio or video editing (some friends of mine are), it seems that the only good software for that requires paid licenses. The kind of thing that can take several hundred audio tracks and mix and synchronize a perfect recording, and take hundreds of video takes and make a movie with heavy compositing.


"kdenlive" is something to look at. Well, I haven't cut a cinema movie, but I document some of my large distant hikes within videos: 1 hour and 350 to 550 video clips are often used, and I'm using 6 to 8 tracks therefore (you can have more, but I cannot imagine anyone actually having to merge more tracks at the same frame beside of music compositions). It splits audio and video by default, you have dozens filters, fadings, etc.; And some people are saying that it can be named in one sentence with the big ones for movies  And the last years it even doesn't crash every now and then…

But if your really looking for *professional* video editing: You will need special hardware, too; There's more available than keyboards and mice…


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## jmos (Mar 22, 2021)

Lamia said:


> I thought xsane/sane-backends/sane-frontends does a good job at that.


Example: First dropdown "text black & white", second "as PDF", press button "scan" - since 10 years always a 100% perfect result, even when the source was low quality printing on low quality paper. Button "scan+", and I've got a second page on my PDF with the next scanned document. Yes!

On xsane I remember that I had - after the scan process - to adjust this and that to get a clean result, and then say "save it". No clue how xsane works today, but as my paid scanner software does *exactly* what I need & want … I wouldn't change back.

xsane was more "dealing with scanner parameters", while the paid software is focused on my use case. And as the scanner is one of my office tools and not my playground…

And beside the fact that my scanner was compatible to sane from the beginning (Canon "Lide 220"), it took some years till the sane frontends did work reliable.


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## jardows (Mar 22, 2021)

I know I'm the minority here, but I have and will pay for Microsoft Office (I currently get it for free with the University I work for).  I've tried, I've really tried, to use Open/Libre Office, but it just doesn't get the job done.  I've also played around with other programs like Caligra, etc.  While they are fine for simple tasks, once you get into some of the more advanced formatting (Word, PP) or complex formulas (Excel), the limitations of the FOSS suites become painfully obvious.  Case in point - for my Seminary classes, there is a specific formatting required of papers required, specifically with footnotes and page numbering.  It is very simple in Word to setup the formatting as required where it will automatically apply the formatting on each new page.  In Libre/Open Office, Clligra, Abi Word, et. al., they refuse to autoformat the way I require it.  I have to manually format each page.  That's time I cannot afford to waste.  Also, there is Publisher, which has no free equivalent program (that I have found).  Scribus is similar, but falls far short for usability in more casual publishing cases. This is why I install a Windows VM on my FreeBSD installations, solely for running MS Office.  If it were available, and if I had to pay for it instead of me currently getting it for free, I'd gladly pay for MS Office that natively ran on FreeBSD.

In general, I view computers as tools to accomplish a task.  If the tool will accomplish that task better, and the price is justified for the benefit that tool gives me, I have no problem paying for it. .


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## zirias@ (Mar 22, 2021)

jardows said:


> Case in point - for my Seminary classes, there is a specific formatting required of papers required, specifically with footnotes and page numbering. It is very simple in Word to setup the formatting as required where it will automatically apply the formatting on each new page. In Libre/Open Office, Clligra, Abi Word, et. al., they refuse to autoformat the way I require it.


Although I'd _always_ just use LaTeX for any "complex" document, because just about _every_ WYSIWYG text processor sooner or later is a PITA with these *) … applying a page format globally including footnotes and page numbering is definitely something LibreOffice doesn't have _any_ problem with, so I'd assume you somehow failed to try it as intended (which can of course happen, and in the end, I also think all the UI concepts in text processors suck, and which one is good to use for you depends mostly on what you're used to).

edit: adding to that, if you have to typeset any formulas, everything besides LaTeX is crap anyways   Doesn't mean MS Office is bad software, it just depends on your specific usecase. But indeed, for most things it provides, there are just-as-good (and for some specific cases: better) alternatives. So, I'm not in the camp of those who would use MS Office if I can avoid it 

---
*) yes, especially including MS Word – I was forced to write my diploma thesis with that one and it was a horrible experience. Given this is a long time ago, so probably Microsoft improved one or the other thing since then.


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## kpedersen (Mar 22, 2021)

One big benefit of Office 365 is that its documents are forcibly simpler (i.e VBA is not available to Office 365). No longer do I get something from a colleague containing hundreds of random MACROs causing LibreOffice to struggle. So if you had issues with Libre/Open Office in the past, perhaps try again. You might find it more feasible now that everyone is using a restrictive subset of Office 2019.

I do find it amazing however how all of these "absolutely non-negotiable" enterprise features are suddenly quite possible to go without as soon as Microsoft can't support them.

I.e if I made a company that released Office 365 ~10 years ago, it would have absolutely failed because some guys random Visual Basic 6 code wouldn't work rotating an image anymore. And yet now people are happy to pay a subscription for an effectively inferior product. The proprietary industry is great!


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## eternal_noob (Mar 22, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> So if you had issues with Libre/Open Office in the past, perhaps try again. You might find it more feasible now.


Never ever. Microsoft's Software is Malware


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## zirias@ (Mar 22, 2021)

eternal_noob, you seem to misunderstand what you're quoting, AND you link a document of the radical cult named GNU ... oh well


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## eternal_noob (Mar 22, 2021)

Zirias said:


> you seem to misunderstand what you're quoting, AND you link a document of the radical cult named GNU


I tried to find an article in english about the "phone-home" activities of Office 365 and that's the only one i could find.
Why i am misunderstanding that one?

I don't like Stallman and his GNU cult either but hey, at least the are against Microsoft too.

Edit: Now i get it. I thought that kpedersen was suggesting to try Office 365 again. The


> One big benefit of Office 365 is that its documents are forcibly simpler


part got me confused.


----------



## zirias@ (Mar 22, 2021)

To the suggestion to give LibreOffice or OpenOffice another try, you answer "never ever", refering Microsoft. So uhm …?
And then, what makes you think FreeBSD (that's the context here) is "against Microsoft"?


----------



## eternal_noob (Mar 22, 2021)

Zirias said:


> To the suggestion to give LibreOffice or OpenOffice another try, you answer "never ever", refering Microsoft. So uhm …?


Yeah, your're right i misunderstood that. I meant to "never ever" give Office another try.



Zirias said:


> what makes you think FreeBSD (that's the context here) is "against Microsoft"?


FreeBSD can't be against Microsoft, it's only an OS.
But i know that the GNU people don't like them, see https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/microsoft.en.html


----------



## kpedersen (Mar 22, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> I don't like Stallman and his GNU cult either but hey, at least the are against Microsoft too.


I don't actually mind the guy. Also GNU is in principle a good idea.

Plus, we need risk takers! And someone who eats stuff from his feet whilst in the middle of giving a lecture is nothing but a risk taker! XD

However, I am not a massive fan of the FSF or Linux Foundation. They are trying too hard to focus on the fantasy of freedom itself rather than specifically on free software (i.e something that is more feasible in terms of scope).

Edit: An example of said risk would be to restrict GPL more. If they want to damage proprietary software, they should prevent companies (people) taking free code and just making an online service around it. In this case AGPL should be the default. Only Stallman would push for this. The FSF are a bunch of wet leaves. At least the BSD licenses don't tempt companies into those darn clouds.


----------



## eternal_noob (Mar 22, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> Also GNU is in principle a good idea.


It is but the GPL is cancer.


kpedersen said:


> And someone who eats stuff from his feet whilst in the middle of giving a lecture is nothing but a risk taker!


Gross. I almost puked.


kpedersen said:


> An example of said risk would be to restrict GPL more.


For me, it's too restrictive already. I try to avoid GPL'd software for this reason.


kpedersen said:


> If they want to damage proprietary software, they should prevent companies (people) taking free code and just making an online service around it.


If the want to damage proprietary software, they should make better software.


----------



## Mjölnir (Mar 22, 2021)

Cool down, check the Donor Roster & search for _Microsoft_: they're among the very 1st donors every year, and I'm quite confident they will donate more when their fiscal calculations are done.  Feel free to follow their example & donate, too.


----------



## jardows (Mar 22, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> So if you had issues with Libre/Open Office in the past, perhaps try again. You might find it more feasible now that everyone is using a restrictive subset of Office 2019.


Yep, tried it again last week.  Same thing.  It'll auto format, just not in the way I am required to format.  Maybe there is some trick to getting it to work, but I haven't found it.  Besides, I need to be focusing on evaluating theories of leadership, not the scripting language of LaTex or whatever hidden setting in Libre/Open Office allows me to do it.  
My statement still stands - if I had to pay for it (again, MS Office is currently free for me) and Microsoft released a version of Office for FreeBSD, I would not hesitate to pay for the proprietary software.  I know the software, I know it will accomplish the task I need it to, and I know how to make it accomplish the task I need it to.


----------



## Beastie7 (Mar 22, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> GNU is in principle a good idea.



GNU is the software equivalent of cultural marxism. Hardly a feat, but if you beat a drum long enough others will follow.


----------



## zirias@ (Mar 22, 2021)

jardows said:


> I need to be focusing on evaluating theories of leadership, not the scripting language of LaTex or whatever hidden setting in Libre/Open Office allows me to do it.


The thing is: Typically you learn once, and once you learned, you can use it efficiently. I just assume this is what happened with MS Office in your case. My assumption is based on the fact that you didn't mention anything that would be particularly troublesome with LibreOffice.

Of course, sparing yourself the time to learn something else is still a good reason to pay money instead, so, no objections here 

(side note, OT, I'd assume you could get MS Office to work with wine as well?)


----------



## ralphbsz (Mar 22, 2021)

jardows said:


> I know I'm the minority here, but I have and will pay for Microsoft Office (I currently get it for free with the University I work for).  I've tried, I've really tried, to use Open/Libre Office, but it just doesn't get the job done.


Try either the free "Microsoft 365" office suite (which is fundamentally a stripped-down version of Office, just running via a web browser interface), or Google's office suite, which is called Google Docs. Both have a free tier, which allows creating hundreds or thousands of documents (I don't actually know what the limitation is, never having run into them). They work very well, and can read and write documents in Office format much of the time. Today I use them for many documents, but I still keep a copy of real MS Office on one computer, for when absolute compatibility with the format is required, or for documents that contain VB or have to integrate with Access.

I've also tried using the various OpenOffice/LibreOffice/... versions, and always found them to be problematic: incompatible, buggy, user-inimical.

As for LaTeX: Once every year or two, I still prepare a document with LaTeX, mostly because some organization or conference has templates that need to be used. But if the problem is formulas: You can get add-ons for Google Docs that allow typing formulas in LaTeX inline in a document.


----------



## Jose (Mar 22, 2021)

I always hate it when I'm forced to use Google Docs at work. Let me regale you with what I immodestly call "Jose'
s conjecture": There's always another version of this Google doc.

I've noticed that whatever version I have access to of the Google doc I need is old & bogus. There's always a new & improved version somewhere and I don't have the right permissions to have it even show up in search for me. There may be more than one newer version. That is a subject for further study.

I do agree that the Libreoffice UI is user-antagonistic. All I wanted to do is format this cell as currency, why have you inserted random stuff from cells I had selected into my complicated formula?


----------



## zirias@ (Mar 22, 2021)

Jose said:


> I do agree that the Libreoffice UI is user-antagonistic.


I still think that's also a matter of taste. I never got used to this "Ribbon" interface MS Office uses and always get confused where to find anything.


Jose said:


> All I wanted to do is format this cell as currency, why have you inserted random stuff from cells I had selected into my complicated formula?


Can't say anything about the spreadsheet though, cause I almost never need this kind of application.


----------



## BostonBSD (Mar 22, 2021)

> I always admired the LTSP project from Linux, I'd probably pay for BSD software that performs the same, but if I looked hard enough I'd probably find out someone has already done this.


Well, I looked and it appears as though the xen project has already does this {LTSP looks slightly more streamlined [less general purpose] and less stratified by layers [all it does is mount a network drive and chroot, xen is a full virtual environment], but still very similar}.

* LTSP also has subordinate kernels running on the client-side in conjunction with a primary kernel on the server-side [perhaps they should be called lieutenant kernels].


----------



## Mjölnir (Mar 22, 2021)

Beastie7 said:


> GNU is the software equivalent of cultural marxism. Hardly a feat, but if you beat a drum long enough others will follow.


The honourable Karl Marx is still honoured here in street names, places etc., and rightly so; he's regarded as a brilliant analyst even by notable conservatives.  What you mean could probably better be called _cultural barbarism_?  We have that joke here in Germany about the self-called _"real existing socialism"_: KM peeking out of his coffin after the downfall of the soviet imperium, saying: _"Sorry, guys, I was just brainstorming..."_.


----------



## JWJones (Mar 22, 2021)

If it got me out of being dependent on either Apple or Microsoft, I would buy a FreeBSD or Linux release of the Adobe Creative Suite (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat Pro, etc.). Either that or I have to learn to master Gimp, Inkscape, and Scribus.


----------



## sidetone (Mar 22, 2021)

jardows said:


> I have and will pay for Microsoft Office


Word Perfect is much better. I wouldn't even consider Microsoft Office, especially not its office product of subscription for yearly use.

If I were to buy something from Microsoft, it would be video games. Old ones worked. They would go through hoops to block newer games from running on opensource operating systems.

If they still had Encarta encyclopedia, that would be worth buying from Microsoft. I bought an encyclopedia CD from Britannica years ago that worked under Wine emulation.


JWJones said:


> I would buy a FreeBSD or Linux release of the Adobe Creative Suite (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat Pro, etc.).


I would go for Corel or any other company than Adobe that makes and forces bad products on consumers like Acrobat or Flash player.


Also, other paid alternatives to these are a consideration.


----------



## BostonBSD (Mar 22, 2021)

I might have bought autocad, but FreeCAD is right here.  No need to.

Language learning software on Linux/BSD is rather skimp.  I'd pay to have something like Rosetta Stone / DuoLingo (which is free, but not available on BSD).  The web browser versions don't have the same sort of experience.


----------



## Crivens (Mar 22, 2021)

All these office things aside (this turns into a whatever office .vs. someelse office) - I would buy software that I NEED and can't make do with free stuff.
Programming environments are good enough for me, no need to shell out 4digits on one. The gap for me, want-get, is small enough not to worry.
Then there is what I WANT.
Sadly, freetime is little enough once you got kids that you don't need to invest in games. So what I WANT is free time, but there is no software available that makes me sleep faster. So I do things like paying professionals for doing my taxes. Much faster.


----------



## Mjölnir (Mar 22, 2021)

M$ Flight Simulator.  Is there a better one available (for home enthusiasts)?


----------



## sidetone (Mar 22, 2021)

Mjölnir said:


> M$ Flight Simulator.  Is there a better one available (for home enthusiasts)?


Not a better one, but games/flightgear is a good opensource flight simulator.



			Gallery v2.10 – FlightGear Flight Simulator


----------



## Mjölnir (Mar 22, 2021)

That's comparing a _bobby car_ to a _Lamborghini Bentley_.


----------



## BostonBSD (Mar 22, 2021)

> So what I WANT is free time, but there is no software available that makes me sleep faster.


I used to go to websites to see weather data, stock quotes, the news, the forecast.

Now I just use perl scripts and crontab on FreeBSD/RaspberryPI, I wake up in the morning and all of the info I need is right there [perl has a JSON module to make it easier].  Then I have nothing to do but go to this forum.  Ancillary info from news sites has a huge impact on free time, this cuts down on it.

* wkhtmltopdf converts any website to a pdf file.


----------



## sidetone (Mar 22, 2021)

BostonBSD said:


> wkhtmltopdf converts any website to a pdf file.


I convert webpages to pdf in Firefox, by going to Print --> Destination --> then save/print as a PDF file.

I often use this for saving payment confirmations and order statuses.


----------



## BostonBSD (Mar 22, 2021)

> I convert webpages to pdf in Firefox, by going to Print --> Destination --> then save/print as a PDF file.


Yeah, but wkhtmltopdf is easier to work into a shell/perl/python script.  It's a headless system, all it does is sit there and collect data all night, all day, every day.  It only uses about 1 watt of electricity and just collects data.  It serves it with ftpd.  I want to turn it into a control system for animal watering, feeding, waste removal; but I haven't gone that far yet.



```
#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
#---------------------#
# PROGRAM: weather.pl #
#---------------------#
$var = "wkhtmltopdf -q \"https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=42.3517&lon=-71.152&unit=0&lg=english&FcstType=text&TextType=2\"";

$dt = `date`;
chomp($dt);

$var = "$var \"weather-$dt.pdf\"";

$DIR = "/srv/forecast/";
chdir( $DIR ) or die "Couldn't go inside $DIR directory, $!";
system($var);
```


----------



## ralphbsz (Mar 22, 2021)

Jose said:


> I always hate it when I'm forced to use Google Docs at work. Let me regale you with what I immodestly call "Jose'
> s conjecture": There's always another version of this Google doc.
> 
> I've noticed that whatever version I have access to of the Google doc I need is old & bogus. There's always a new & improved version somewhere and I don't have the right permissions to have it even show up in search for me. There may be more than one newer version. That is a subject for further study.


Exactly the same happens with documents that are not stored in the cloud. I still remember with horror what happens when someone e-mails a draft of a document to 20 people, and then gets 20-marked up copies back, and has to integrate them. Even worse: Each of those 20 people now thinks that they have a copy of the document, and don't know that much newer versions exist.

Change control is hard. For source code, we have sort of solved the problem (with things like subversion, git, cvs, ...), but these solutions all take enormous discipline. For documents, the same amount of discipline is required. The technology for collaboratively editing documents all exists, but (and there I agree with you), the habits haven't been formed yet.


----------



## kpedersen (Mar 23, 2021)

ralphbsz said:


> but these solutions all take enormous discipline. For documents, the same amount of discipline is required.



Easy, just add __Final_ on the end when you think you won't make any more changes. Chuck in some arbitrary __V1_, __V2_ and then fall back on __V2a_, __V3b_. Finally suffix your initials at the end __KP_.


----------



## Jose (Mar 23, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> Easy, just add __Final_ on the end when you think you won't make any more changes. Chuck in some arbitrary __V1_, __V2_ and then fall back on __V2a_, __V3b_. Finally suffix your initials at the end __KP_.


Don't forget to suffix things with __new_ and __latest_. Those suffixes age well.

Personally if the documentation is not in a wiki, it doesn't exist.


----------



## unitrunker (Mar 23, 2021)

I purchased the "pro" version of notecase after the free version dropped out of ports. It supports Windows, Mac, Android, and *FreeBSD*.


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## sidetone (Mar 23, 2021)

Mjölnir said:


> M$ Flight Simulator.  Is there a better one available (for home enthusiasts)?


X-Plane? If it's confirmed to work on FreeBSD through Steam.








						X-Plane 11 on Steam
					

The future of flight simulation is now! X-Plane 11 is the detailed, realistic, and modern simulator you’ve been waiting for. Intuitive user interface, 3-D cockpits, new effects, 3-D sound, living airports and world-wide scenery.




					store.steampowered.com


----------



## Beastie7 (Mar 23, 2021)

The audacity to speak of more third party support when FreeBSD doesn't even ship it's own desktop. Oh the sorrow. '

Asking for more application support whilst instructing people to setup a working desktop manually is the quickest way to the NOPE train.


----------



## zirias@ (Mar 23, 2021)

Nonsense. "Desktops" and other GUI stuff are available. Does Linux "ship its own desktop"?


----------



## Beastie7 (Mar 23, 2021)

Zirias said:


> Nonsense. "Desktops" and other GUI stuff are available. Does Linux "ship its own desktop"?



Ask yourself why Ubuntu is a first class citizen to Valve and you'll understand the premise behind my above statement. 

_"Hey you should support this awesome, professional operating system.. but wait! you know the GUI stuff? yeah, you gotta set it up yourself." _

App Devs: _Nope_.


----------



## zirias@ (Mar 23, 2021)

Beastie7 said:


> Ask yourself why Ubuntu is a first class citizen to Valve


Because it's one of the most widespread Linux dists built on a solid package management (Debian's APT) and includes LTS releases.

Commercial software, including GUI stuff, for Linux (and of course for many Unix systems) was *always* available and nobody cared whether the installer for the target system installed some "desktop environment" by default. I once used Internet Explorer 5 on a HP-UX machine running some simple X session from xdm…


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## sidetone (Apr 6, 2021)

Ashampoo Office is a commercial office suite. There's a free version too. It would be worth trying that on FreeBSD, then if that works, to try the paid version.


----------



## Argentum (Apr 8, 2021)

Maybe https://sparxsystems.com/products/ea/I happen to use it every day on Windows and there is no good Open Source alternative.


----------



## dbdemon (Apr 8, 2021)

This thread has received loads more responses than I thought it would! Some interesting posts here which have helped me adjust my own thoughts/attitudes on the topic of open-source vs proprietary.

To answer my own question, the only software I'm paying for at the moment is Xenforo, the same forum software used here on the FreeBSD forums, and some add-ons for it. At the time when I started my own forum, there really weren't any really good open-source alternatives, and even today I'm unsure there are.


----------



## Crivens (Apr 8, 2021)

Argentum Either EA has changed A LOT in recent years or you would need to pay me also a lot to use it...


----------



## Argentum (Apr 8, 2021)

Crivens said:


> Argentum Either EA has changed A LOT in recent years or you would need to pay me also a lot to use it...


It has changed, yes, and evolving. BTW, this is not my personal usage. Also, I do not know any OS alternatives. One of the few commercial alternatives is perhaps https://www.nomagic.com/products/magicdraw.

The question in this thread was, which proprietary software you might buy. Personally, I am fully satisfied with FreeBSD and ports available. My answer was just *maybe,* because I use this in my everyday work.


----------



## Deleted member 30996 (Apr 8, 2021)

sidetone said:


> X-Plane? If it's confirmed to work on FreeBSD through Steam.


Elder Scrolls: Oblivion  is the only video game I play off PS2 console. When I bought Skyrim and couldn't load and play it without Steam standing between me and the game starting like I expected it to in Oblivion, my desire to play it oblivious. 

As went Win10Pro and interest in computer gaming with it.

I think everything online should be free. As in FreeBSD. Hosting and domain names excluded. Though host ads have no place on a free site. Or mine.

I've never charged for anything I've had up on my sites, make a penny for anything I've done online and am in the hole for hosting alone. Though I have a PayPal account and will take gifts from strangers, it was done of my own free will and yours for the taking. 

If it's not software in the ports tree I don't need it or install it from a site like Nvidia. Everything I want or need is in there or a reasonable facsimile to do that job.

Unless they're selling 3rd party terminals in which any command entered is carried out I'm not buying.


```
root@bakemono:/ # initiate machine war --global
initiate: Command not found.
root@bakemono:/ # deus ex machina
deus: Command not found.
root@bakemono:/ # launch nuclear strike --hud --dc
launch: Command not found.
root@bakemono:/ #
```

I'll  just wait...


----------



## Crivens (Apr 8, 2021)

Given what you write there, I hope for a looong time.


----------



## Deleted member 30996 (Apr 8, 2021)

I had almost completely lost the ability to write before coming back and starting to post again. Please excuse my use of it if enjoyment experienced excessively expressed, everything eventually evaporating entirely entropy established


----------



## BostonBSD (Apr 18, 2021)

BostonBSD said:


> Some really good optimization software would be useful also [deterministic optimization/linear programming, probabilistic optimization]. MIT? has something called LP solve, which works, but something more user-friendly and general would be very nice (optimize financial portfolios, scheduling, etc).


So apparently there's a mathematical scripting language called R that does this for free.

Check it out:

You need to buy some filing cabinets. You know that Cabinet X costs $10 per unit, requires six square feet of floor space, and holds eight cubic feet of files. Cabinet Y costs $20 per unit, requires eight square feet of floor space, and holds twelve cubic feet of files. You have been given $140 for this purchase, though you don't have to spend that much. The office has room for no more than 72 square feet of cabinets. How many of which model should you buy, in order to maximize storage volume?

MAX = 8X + 12Y

Cost
10X + 20Y <= 140

Floor Space
6X + 8Y <= 72

So make an R script like so:

```
library(lpSolve)
f.obj <- c(8, 12)
f.con <- matrix(c(10, 20, 6, 8), nrow = 2, byrow = TRUE)
f.dir <- c("<=","<=")
f.rhs <- c(140, 72)
lp("max", f.obj, f.con, f.dir, f.rhs)
lp("max", f.obj, f.con, f.dir, f.rhs)$solution
lp("max", f.obj, f.con, f.dir, f.rhs)$objval
```

Run the script:
`R -f lp2.r`

The output is:


```
> library(lpSolve)
> f.obj <- c(8, 12)
> f.con <- matrix(c(10, 20, 6, 8), nrow = 2, byrow = TRUE)
> f.dir <- c("<=","<=")
> f.rhs <- c(140, 72)
> lp("max", f.obj, f.con, f.dir, f.rhs)
Success: the objective function is 100
> lp("max", f.obj, f.con, f.dir, f.rhs)$solution
[1] 8 3
> lp("max", f.obj, f.con, f.dir, f.rhs)$objval
[1] 100
>
```

Looks like I need to buy 8 of cabinet X and 3 of Cabinet Y
to maximize my file space at 100 cubic feet.


----------



## bakul (Apr 19, 2021)

You can do this in in the symbolic math package "maxima" too! 

```
$ maxima
;;; Loading #P"/usr/local/lib/ecl-20.4.24/sb-bsd-sockets.fas"
;;; Loading #P"/usr/local/lib/ecl-20.4.24/sockets.fas"
Maxima 5.44.0 http://maxima.sourceforge.net
using Lisp ECL 20.4.24
Distributed under the GNU Public License. See the file COPYING.
Dedicated to the memory of William Schelter.
The function bug_report() provides bug reporting information.
(%i1) load(simplex)$

(%i2) volume: 8*x+12*y;
(%o2)                             12 y + 8 x
(%i3) cost: 10*x+20*y<=140;
(%o3)                         20 y + 10 x <= 140
(%i4) space: 6*x+8*y<=72;
(%o4)                           8 y + 6 x <= 72
(%i5) maximize_lp(volume,[cost,space]);
(%o5)                        [100, [y = 3, x = 8]]
```


----------



## BostonBSD (Apr 19, 2021)

bakul said:


> You can do this in in the symbolic math package "maxima" too!
> 
> ```
> $ maxima
> ...


That looks pretty neat too, and actually more readable.


----------



## Beastie7 (Apr 19, 2021)

Trihexagonal said:


> I had almost completely lost the ability to write before coming back and starting to post again. Please excuse my use of it if enjoyment experienced excessively expressed, everything eventually evaporating entirely entropy established


What you did there.. I see it.


----------



## BostonBSD (Apr 19, 2021)

So create a file file.mac.



```
load(simplex)$
volume: 8*x+12*y;
cost: 10*x+20*y<=140;
space: 6*x+8*y<=72;
maximize_lp(volume,[cost,space]);
```

Run the file:
`maxima -b file.mac`

Output:


```
;;; Loading #P"/usr/local/lib/ecl-20.4.24/sb-bsd-sockets.fas"
;;; Loading #P"/usr/local/lib/ecl-20.4.24/sockets.fas"
Maxima 5.44.0 http://maxima.sourceforge.net
using Lisp ECL 20.4.24
Distributed under the GNU Public License. See the file COPYING.
Dedicated to the memory of William Schelter.
The function bug_report() provides bug reporting information.
(%i1) batch("file.mac")

read and interpret /usr/home/myname/workspace/file.mac
(%i2) load(simplex)
(%i3) volume:8*x+12*y
(%o3)                             12 y + 8 x
(%i4) cost:10*x+20*y <= 140
(%o4)                         20 y + 10 x <= 140
(%i5) space:6*x+8*y <= 72
(%o5)                           8 y + 6 x <= 72
(%i6) maximize_lp(volume,[cost,space])
(%o6)                        [100, [y = 3, x = 8]]
```

Now, Alain De Vos just told me about something called Julia, which appears to be even more readable [at least on the output, but perhaps not the syntax].


----------



## bakul (Apr 19, 2021)

BostonBSD said:


> That looks pretty neat too, and actually more readable.


It is pretty powerful as it can do symbolic math. Worth getting familiar with. There are some youtube videos that may interest you. Run _wxmaxima_ and try this:
	
	



```
f(x,y):=sin(x)+cos(y);
plot3d(f(x,y),[x,-5,5],[y,-5,5]);
```
There are newer and more powerful programs such as mathematica but it is not open source. Then there is open source sage that is built on top of NumPy, maxima, R, GAP etc. There is no BSD port but may be the linux binary will run? I haven't tried. R, Julia etc are programming languages and they don't do symbolic math for you. They are all useful in different but overlapping contexts.

I should add that there are symbolic math packages for Julia but I am not familiar with them. Maxima is derived from Macsyma & it has a lot of stuff built in.


----------



## BostonBSD (Apr 19, 2021)

bakul said:


> It is pretty powerful as it can do symbolic math. Worth getting familiar with. There are some youtube videos that may interest you. Run _wxmaxima_ and try this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


All of this reminds me of Maple, which I used in college, but so far as I can tell Maxima seems nearly equivalent. 

Maple and Mathematica are available on Linux now and may run on the FreeBSD linuxulator, as might the Sage Linux binary, although for my purposes I think Maxima is fine.

For solitary purpose scripting though, R or Julia may be better [repetitive computations covering a single subject such as generating scheduling charts, etc].


----------



## Morris (Apr 21, 2021)

I would pay a subscription fee for a Django application server running on top of FreeBSD.

A package that would sit in between the OS and the Django environment. It would help maintain jails for specific deployments (a specific version of Python and specific version of Django), it would alert me to relevant updates to the underlying FreeBSD version, the Python version and the Django version, it would help me test and schedule updates to each of those (with roll-back?) and monitor the resource usages of all the different jails.

Essentially it would be something that takes all the effort out of running everything below the actual Django app so the subscriber can focus on the Django app itself with paid support to fall back on if something goes wrong.

There are Django application hosters such as Alwaysdata and PythonAnywhere where you can outsource some of your Django apps but they often lack the finer grained control you have when running your own servers.


----------

