# Why is it Charlie?



## Geezer (Oct 29, 2021)

Why is it Charlie root? 

Why not Roger root, or anything else? Yes, I understand the 'root' bit, but why Charlie? 

Is it historical? Did someone put it in on a whim, and it stuck? Would the whole operating system fail if it were another name?


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## eternal_noob (Oct 29, 2021)

> Charlie Root was a pitcher for the Chicago Cubs from about 1925
> through about 1940. Career ERA of 3.59 and a lifetime record of 201
> wins and 160 losses.
> ...
> ...





			Charlie Root - woher der Name...?


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## Geezer (Oct 29, 2021)

Oh. Well it could have been Babe Ruth root then.

Not being a fan of baseball or rounders or whatever it is, I cannot see the relevance.

Surely, during the install, we should be asked for our own favourite sport, and the name for root is derived from that.


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## eternal_noob (Oct 29, 2021)

I like beetroot.


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## SirDice (Oct 29, 2021)

It's one of those historic things where nobody really knows where it came from. I've heard different stories, but nobody has been able to confirm any of them.


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## Geezer (Oct 29, 2021)

SirDice said:


> nobody really knows



Thank you.

I was concerned you might move this thread to off-topic. I am glad you understand the profound importance.


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## SirDice (Oct 29, 2021)

Geezer said:


> Would the whole operating system fail if it were another name?


To answer this, no it won't. It's in the free form name of the GECOS field, so nothing should depend on the information in it. But you might get issues with mail filters that specifically look for that name in mail sent from root.


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## Tieks (Oct 29, 2021)

Geezer said:


> profound importance


So the system won't break down. I suppose there's another upside if you were to rename that field to Geezer root. You wouldn't have problems with bugs any more.
I'm not quite sure about fleas, though.


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## Geezer (Oct 29, 2021)

Geckos Field at DuckDuckGo
					

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.




					duckduckgo.com


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## Argentum (Oct 29, 2021)

SirDice said:


> It's one of those historic things where nobody really knows where it came from. I've heard different stories, but nobody has been able to confirm any of them.


The problem is that `toor` is also `Charlie`. I would assume `Eilrahc`...


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## mer (Oct 29, 2021)

I thought if you said it backwards three times whilst circling your room widdershins you will summon daemons.


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## astyle (Oct 29, 2021)

Argentum said:


> The problem is that `toor` is alco `Charlie`. I would assume `Eilrach`...


`Eilrach` --> `Eilrahc`


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## astyle (Oct 29, 2021)

mer said:


> I thought if you said it backwards three times whilst circling your room widdershins you will summon daemons.


yeah, from Cron.


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## SirDice (Oct 29, 2021)

Interesting to browse through: https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo

Early BSD versions had the name "Ernie Co-vax" for root. Even earlier versions didn't have a GECOS field yet. Haven't found the exact point where this changed to "Charlie &" yet. 









						unix-history-repo/passwd at BSD-3-Snapshot-Development · dspinellis/unix-history-repo
					

Continuous Unix commit history from 1970 until today - unix-history-repo/passwd at BSD-3-Snapshot-Development · dspinellis/unix-history-repo




					github.com


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## eternal_noob (Oct 29, 2021)

SirDice said:


> Co-vax


Covid vaccination? I smell a time machine.


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## mer (Oct 29, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> Covid vaccination? I smell a time machine.


I thought you couldn't smell....


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## Geezer (Oct 30, 2021)

SirDice said:


> Even earlier versions didn't have a GECOS field yet. Haven't found the exact point ...



It appears to have been introduced by Maurits Cornelis Escher <https://mcescher.com/>

And here is the Gecko Field:


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## astyle (Oct 30, 2021)

Here's a real


Geezer said:


> It appears to have been introduced by Maurits Cornelis Escher <https://mcescher.com/>
> 
> And here is the Gecko Field:


Here's the real gecko:




Looks like a plastic toy until it runs away


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## Vull (Oct 30, 2021)

Geezer said:


> Oh. Well it could have been Babe Ruth root then.
> 
> Not being a fan of baseball or rounders or whatever it is, I cannot see the relevance.
> 
> Surely, during the install, we should be asked for our own favourite sport, and the name for root is derived from that.


That wouldn't work. Then it would be the "ruth" account.


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## astyle (Oct 30, 2021)

I still remember when UNIX usernames and email handles were an 8-character hash derived from that very GECOS field... practice fell out of favor around 2004, when hash collisions in such applications became too common to ignore.


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## bakul (Oct 30, 2021)

SirDice said:


> Early BSD versions had the name "Ernie Co-vax" for root. Even earlier versions didn't have a GECOS field yet. Haven't found the exact point where this changed to "Charlie &" yet.


It had certainly changed to "Charlie &" by BSD-4.2. You can find  `/etc/passwd` file in the root dump file in http://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/mirrors/minnie.tuhs.org/UA_Distributions/UCB/4.2BSD/



Geezer said:


> Not being a fan of baseball or rounders or whatever it is, I cannot see the relevance.


Just a silly joke.


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## Geezer (Oct 30, 2021)

bakul said:


> Just a silly joke.



Er, yes dear bakul, I think I can understand.


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## gpw928 (Oct 30, 2021)

I have never seen it on AT&T versions of Unix V6 through System V.

So, I'm pretty sure it happened at Berkeley.

The Unix Tree records the following in /etc/passwd:
	
	



```
4 BSD:    root::0:10:Ernie Co-vax,508JE,0204:/:/bin/csh
4.1c BSD: root::0:10:Charlie,458E,7750:/:/bin/csh
4.2 BSD:  root::0:10:Charlie &:/:/bin/csh
```
So I'm guessing that Ernie and Charlie were real people, with room numbers.

But by 4.2 BSD, "Charlie" had transformed into generic for "Charlie ROOT".


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## Argentum (Oct 30, 2021)

astyle said:


> `Eilrach` --> `Eilrahc`


Yes, my *typo*.

_This is what happens when I try to use this Forum from Iphone..._


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## Geezer (Oct 30, 2021)

Argentum said:


> Yes, my *typo*.
> 
> _This is what happens when I try to use this Forum from Iphone..._


I thought it was better to reverse it phonetically.


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## Deleted member 30996 (Oct 30, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> Covid vaccination? I smell a time machine.


Ernie Kovacks. You said you were old....


SirDice said:


> Early BSD versions had the name "Ernie Co-vax" for root.


It's a play on his name. 

He was a famous comedian, movie star, innovator, womanizer, rebel and a wild man who wrestled a jaguar on his TV Show. I was 5 when he died and remember watching his TV show and movies back then.


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## chrbr (Oct 30, 2021)

I still own the "Anwender Linux Handbuch" from 1993. It is a guidance for Linux users but also for administration. In this book Ruth has all the power . In many countries Ruth is a name for a female. If spoken it sounds almost similar to "root" in English.


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## Argentum (Oct 30, 2021)

Geezer said:


> I thought it was better to reverse it phonetically.


Agree with that also.


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## SirDice (Oct 30, 2021)

Trihexagonal said:


> It's a play on his name.


Yes, it's probably a play on Ernie Kovacks and VAX, the machine it ran on.


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## Geezer (Oct 30, 2021)

All these plays on words. Even the word 'Unix' itself was a play (I think).

Haven't programmers got anything less frivolous to do?


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## eternal_noob (Oct 30, 2021)

Trihexagonal said:


> You said you were old....


I am. But as a German, i am not obliged to know every American comedian.


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## tux2bsd (Oct 31, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> ..  as a German ... comedian.


Unpossilbemakendeutschelaughen!


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## SirDice (Nov 1, 2021)

Geezer said:


> Haven't programmers got anything less frivolous to do?


You should read some of the comments in the source


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## chrbr (Nov 1, 2021)

Dear tux2bsd,
slightly off topic, but here is a serious documentation about humor in Germany. Of course it is a very short documentation. Nobody would expected more. The language is German but the behaviour of the excited audience says everything.




_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqJasZCSZTk_

Viele Grüße aus Fürth!


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## Menelkir (Nov 1, 2021)

SirDice said:


> You should read some of the comments in the source


This can be used to almost anything, including Linux kernel, other BSDs sources, etc.


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