# Be careful if you go pick mushrooms



## eternal_noob (Oct 29, 2021)

There is one _Galerina marginata_ (deadly) between several _Kuehneromyces mutabilis_ (yummy) growing on the same trunk.
Can you spot it?


----------



## jcamos (Oct 29, 2021)

Interesting... I would guess it's the middle tall one


----------



## SirDice (Oct 29, 2021)

jcamos said:


> Interesting... I would guess it's the middle tall one


That would be my guess too. The top is shaped a little differently (it's flatter) than the others and the stem looks different too (it's mostly smooth, the others have a pattern on it).


----------



## eternal_noob (Oct 29, 2021)

You both are correct.


SirDice said:


> the stem looks different too (it's mostly smooth, the others have a pattern on it).


And this is how you tell them apart. _Kuehneromyces mutabilis_ has scales on the stem below the ring, _Galerina marginata_ has not.
But as the picture shows, you REALLY have to check EVERY single mushroom.


----------



## jcamos (Oct 29, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> You both are correct.
> 
> And this is how you tell them apart. _Kuehneromyces mutabilis_ has scales on the stem below the ring, _Galerina marginata_ has not.
> But as the picture shows, you REALLY have to check EVERY single mushroom.


Bingo! I wouldn't be dead then


----------



## SirDice (Oct 29, 2021)

I probably would have died, only because you said there was a difference I was able to distinguish it. I probably would have picked the whole bunch without checking. But then again, I'm not a mushroom guy, don't like their texture. I'd be looking for berries for survival. But you can die from picking the wrong berries too. I'm not much of a survival expert, so unless I found some canned foods I'd probably just starve to death.


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Oct 29, 2021)

SirDice said:


> unless I found some canned foods I'd probably just starve to death.


And then, with your luck, you'd pick the can that was slightly bloated from botulism and die from that anyway.


----------



## eternal_noob (Oct 29, 2021)

Yeah, Botulinum toxins are the most poisonous substances known.


----------



## SirDice (Oct 29, 2021)

drhowarddrfine said:


> And then, with your luck, you'd pick the can that was slightly bloated from botulism and die from that anyway.


At least with canned food I'm able to recognize that  A "use by date" or "use before" is a good indication too. But would at least open one to have a smell and see how it looks if it's past that date.


----------



## astyle (Oct 29, 2021)

I'd be actually skipping 'em all, just thanks to the collars on the stems. But I'm open to learning about new yummy stuff  .


----------



## Crivens (Oct 29, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> Yeah, Botulinum toxins are the most poisonous substances known.


You sure? What about some toxic (and radioactive?) Metals?


----------



## eternal_noob (Oct 29, 2021)

Yeah, pretty sure. The LD50 is 0.000004 mg/kg.
See https://febs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/1873-3468.13446

Radioactive materials damage tissue, i wouldn't call them poisonous.


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 21, 2021)

Ok, another riddle. 2 out of 8 are poisonous, the other 6 are edible. Can you point them out? (Hint: 3 is edible)


----------



## grahamperrin@ (Nov 21, 2021)

Wild guess: 2 is poisonous.


----------



## astyle (Nov 21, 2021)

I'd think #1 and #5. My reasoning is that they're the only ones with solid-colored caps. But beyond that - I'm clueless. Normally, if you're clueless about something, it's basic common sense not to pick that variety. Or, if you know for sure that a variety is poisonous, then don't pick that, either.


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 21, 2021)

Nope, sorry.

Another hint: The edible ones are _Kuehneromyces mutabilis_ again, the poisonous are _Hypholoma fasciculare_


----------



## sidetone (Nov 21, 2021)

When a can's date is past the labeled by the use by date, it usually means that the vitamin content has reduced. Bloated cans, look and smell are what tells you if it's bad.

I can't tell from the mushrooms. 4 has a biscuit top. 5 has light spots; 1 almost has spots, but in a different way. 2 has a cleave in it.

Maybe 4 and 7. 4 has a biscuit top, and 7 looks the closest to that shape. It's hard to tell, because it's tilted down.


----------



## kpedersen (Nov 21, 2021)

How about we stop guessing and just *ask* the mushrooms?


----------



## fernandel (Nov 21, 2021)

For me is number 3 and 4. _Hypholoma fasciculare should be more yellow colour or lighter._


----------



## astyle (Nov 21, 2021)

I'm following this. Enough wrong answers will eventually yield a correct one  by elimination.


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 22, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> How about we stop guessing and just *ask* the mushrooms?


4 and 7 are _Hypholoma fasciculare_, the rest are _Kuehneromyces mutabilis_.
I admit that this time the riddle was a bit harder to solve.


----------



## kpedersen (Nov 22, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> I admit that this time the riddle was a bit harder to solve.


Yeah, I would probably have had quite the tummy ache by now


----------



## SirDice (Nov 22, 2021)

Explosive diarrhea is probably the least of your problems.  



> The "sulphur tuft" is bitter and poisonous; consuming it can cause vomiting, diarrhea and convulsions.











						Hypholoma fasciculare - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 22, 2021)

Yeah, picking _Kuehneromyces mutabilis_ is absolutely only for experts. There are too many look-alikes which are either deadly (_Galerina marginata_) or otherwise unpleasant.


----------



## astyle (Nov 22, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> 4 and 7 are _Hypholoma fasciculare_, the rest are _Kuehneromyces mutabilis_.
> I admit that this time the riddle was a bit harder to solve.


I would have never guessed! This is why I generally skip mushrooms that look like that, and give strange looks to people who do pick those. Either they actually know what they're doing, or are experimenting (which I would actively discourage).


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 23, 2021)

Here is a photo of the place of discovery.


----------



## sidetone (Nov 23, 2021)

It has a biscuit top, so must be the poisonous one.

Are they poisonous if rubbed on the skin? They cause liver damage when ingested, which doesn't show for days, until it's late to treat it. The poison circulates between organs continuing to cause damage.

There was a case that someone injected mushrooms and it grew inside his body until it killed him. They found protein breakdowns in urine, which is what they use for diagnosing, but had trouble determining the ailment.


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 23, 2021)

sidetone said:


> Are they poisonous if rubbed on the skin?


No, there is no mushroom in the world which is poisonous in contact with skin.
Many believe one of the most poisonous mushrooms in the world - Podostroma cornu-damae - is, but there is no evidence for this.









						Look, but don't touch! Bushwalkers warned about potentially deadly fungus
					

The world's second-deadliest fungus is spotted growing near a popular hiking trail in Far North Queensland, prompting a warning to bushwalkers.




					www.abc.net.au
				






sidetone said:


> There was a case that someone injected mushrooms and it grew inside his body until it killed him.











						'Magic mushrooms' grow in man's blood after injection with shroom tea
					

A man ended up at the emergency department with magic mushrooms growing in his blood.




					www.livescience.com


----------



## astyle (Nov 23, 2021)

'Biscuit top' description has me lost, but something like 'Cap edges pointing down, rather than up, and it's not a smooth, shiny surface' would be better, IMHO. But even then, I'd be lost, and just leave the whole bunch alone.

Carefully reading the article that eternal_noob found in response to sidetone 's comments told me that unfortunately, sidetone did mis-understand the biochemical pathways of poisons and fungal infections. That article also failed to name the specific mushrooms the 'tea' was brewed from (I'm *assuming* that they're the pictured ones in the article). 

Yeah, the guy was not properly educated, had a crazy idea that nearly killed him - that much was communicated by the article. 

Edit: sidetone: The guy actually did survive (at least according to the article). Or did you follow the news to discover that he died later?

Edit 2: Deleted some parts after a good discussion of the article. Said a few things that I'd rather edit out.


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 23, 2021)

astyle said:


> That article also failed to name the specific mushrooms the 'tea' was brewed from


The articles names them:


> His blood tested positive for a bacterial infection with the microbe Brevibacillus and a fungal infection from _*Psilocybe cubensis*_


It's the most common used magic mushroom.


----------



## sidetone (Nov 23, 2021)

I believe he died. They started to treat him late, because he had to admit what he did. It was that mushroom cells (maybe spores) survived his preparation process. The cells multiplied in his body, because it was warm, wet and dark. That one may not have had toxins, but it was deadly when taken that way.

I'm not sure what I misunderstood. I know poisonous mushrooms cause death through ingestion, because of how mycotoxins interact with the liver or other organs. I believed they were ok on the skin, but wasn't really sure. But mushrooms don't warn like plants do. Poisonous plants give irritations if they're poisonous, and a few are dangerous on the skin.

The mushroom head is shaped like a biscuit, the top part of it. Flatter on the top, with a slope away from the center that changes direction downward. The other mushroom head is more cone shaped.





Edit - for clarification, those mushrooms caused death because of how its cells multiplied within the body, and caused damage that way, even if that mushroom didn't have toxins.


----------



## astyle (Nov 23, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> The articles names them: His blood tested positive for a bacterial infection with the microbe Brevibacillus and a fungal infection from _*Psilocybe cubensis*_
> 
> It's the most common used magic mushroom.


Thanks for pointing that out, eternal_noob .  


sidetone said:


> I believe he died. They started to treat him late, because he had to admit what he did. It was that mushroom cells (maybe spores) survived his preparation process. The cells multiplied in his body, because it was warm, damp and dark.
> 
> I'm not sure what I misunderstood. I know poisonous mushrooms cause death through ingestion, because of how mycotoxins interact with the liver or other organs. I believed they were ok on the skin, but wasn't really sure. But mushrooms don't warn like plants do. Poisonous plants give irritations if they're poisonous, and a few are dangerous on the skin.
> 
> ...


Yeah. Sorry, sidetone! I got rather steamed reading that stuff (Just how nuts does one have to be to do it??? Just no sense of danger, no education...  ) After talking with eternal_noob , I realized where I messed up. I ended up doing some side research on Google, and realized that beyond the touching part, you did understand enough to stay safe. So - my bad! Gotta police my own reactions better than that!


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 23, 2021)

sidetone said:


> The mushroom head is shaped like a biscuit, the top part of it.


The shape of the head is dependent on age.

Here is _Galerina marginata_ with differently shaped heads.

__

And _Hypholoma fasciculare

_


----------



## sidetone (Nov 23, 2021)

It's still the shape. Compare the image of the biscuits to the shape of the mushroom that's circled.

The biscuit looks less like those other mushroom heads.

Those ones change shape, but they don't look like the biscuit shape. Some are flat on top, but the part around the mushroom head edge is thinner. The non-poisonous flathead ones look more like pancakes than biscuits. Pancakes are thinner, and biscuits are thicker, when comparing that shape to the edges. I'm not sure if this is enough of a description, as it's kind of visual, and look at the shape of the biscuits.

There could be something else, but I'm missing it if it is.


He didn't know. Some things are hard to know all of the pitfalls. In hindsight, it's obvious though.


I don't mess with mushrooms, unless they're from the grocery store or they come on my pizza.


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 23, 2021)

In Germany, we have a saying "Da Pilze nicht lesen können, sehen sie selten so aus, wie in den Büchern beschrieben", which roughly translates to "Because mushrooms can't read, they seldomly look like described in the books".

You may identify them correctly if they grow alone, but it's much harder if they grow next to each other. Look at the very first photo in the thread.


----------



## astyle (Nov 23, 2021)

My favorite variety (Lactarius, which you normally ferment with salt, garlic cloves, onion and dill) has very biscuity tops, too:




But they can also look like this:





The important part is color, biscuity texture on the caps, and no collar on stems. Both of the pictured varieties are actually the same thing, they get prepared the same, and taste the same. Most people in US don't even pick them, but since I grew up eating 'em with steamed potatoes, I take advantage. I pick and eat them by the basketful  .


----------



## astyle (Nov 23, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> In Germany, we have a saying "Da Pilze nicht lesen können, sehen sie selten so aus, wie in den Büchern beschrieben", which roughly translates to "Because mushrooms can't read, they seldomly look like described in the books".


In Russia, especially in mosquito-infested areas like Siberia in summer, you're supposed to use mosquito repellent. And when your brand of mosquito repellent proves ineffective, the joke is: Those mosquitoes didn't read the ads for the repellent, so they didn't know they were supposed to be repelled. You can make a joke out of anything that way.


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 23, 2021)

astyle said:


> The important part is color, biscuity texture on the caps, and no collar on stems.


And all _Lactarius_ are edible if they exude a red "milk".


----------



## grahamperrin@ (Nov 23, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> The shape of the head is dependent on age.



In my thirties I tried, failed, to don a suede trilby that I purchased in my late teens. Alarming discovery: one's head mushrooms with age. YMMV.


----------



## astyle (Nov 23, 2021)

grahamperrin said:


> In my thirties I tried, failed, to don a suede trilby that I purchased in my late teens. Alarming discovery: one's head mushrooms with age. YMMV.


I actually had to google what a trilby even is. Expensive hats are very much a British thing.  In US, something comparable would be a nice outdoor jacket by a reputable company (Think The North Face, Columbia or Helly Hansen), those tend to go for around $500 easy.


----------



## BSD-Kitsune (Dec 2, 2021)

are mushrooms no good by the time you can get a spore print color? That would be a go-to for recognizing them.

Also, in the US, Deathcaps apparently resemble straw mushrooms (leading to the death of many East and Southeast Asian people who don't know better)


----------



## astyle (Dec 2, 2021)

BSD-Kitsune said:


> are mushrooms no good by the time you can get a spore print color? That would be a go-to for recognizing them.
> 
> Also, in the US, Deathcaps apparently resemble straw mushrooms (leading to the death of many East and Southeast Asian people who don't know better)


What's a 'spore print color' ? Do you mean a color printed photo album for identifying them? You can get a nicely printed color guide even out of season, and take it with you for next season...


----------



## BSD-Kitsune (Dec 3, 2021)

You lay a cap down on some paper for a few hours/overnight and it'll drop spores. Each species has its own color of spore, so it can be used to rule out lookalikes.


----------



## astyle (Dec 3, 2021)

BSD-Kitsune said:


> You lay a cap down on some paper for a few hours/overnight and it'll drop spores. Each species has its own color of spore, so it can be used to rule out lookalikes.


Hmmm...  For me, it's the first time I come across an info tidbit like that. Nothing wrong with it, I just usually pick what I know for sure, rather than invest time and effort in analysis like that. When I come home with a full basket of good stuff, it's a lot of work just cleaning and soaking them.


----------



## BSD-Kitsune (Dec 6, 2021)

I assume that's a safe bet. Rather than pick mushrooms when I've been outdoors, I would rather hunt small animals, or if the right season, search wild fruits.  I'm well and truly able to admit on the topic of mushrooms I don't know enough to not end up high/sick/dead


----------



## baaz (Dec 9, 2021)

I have a fear of mushrooms. I am OK with spiders dark hights skeletons really most of dose mainstream phobias/fears . and MUSHROOMS is what iam afraid of . Interestingly enough there is a phobia of mushrooms called Mycophobia but it is mostly described as "fear of mushrooms because they are poisonous" but iam not like that .it's kinda from something around how they look and grow but I don't know what . 

so in summary I would be pretty ok just running in the opposite way.


----------



## astyle (Dec 9, 2021)

baaz said:


> I have a fear of mushrooms. I am OK with spiders dark hights skeletons really most of dose mainstream phobias/fears . and MUSHROOMS is what iam afraid of . Interestingly enough there is a phobia of mushrooms called Mycophobia but it is mostly described as "fear of mushrooms because they are poisonous" but iam not like that .it's kinda from something around how they look and grow but I don't know what .
> 
> so in summary I would be pretty ok just running in the opposite way.


You're missing out on chantrelles and shiitake... just typing that made me hungry.


----------



## eternal_noob (Dec 9, 2021)

baaz said:


> it's kinda from something around how they look and grow


No animals, no plants, but something totally different. Some say they are extraterrestrial life, the spores traveled through space.
Kinda scary, uh?


----------



## kpedersen (Dec 9, 2021)

baaz said:


> it's kinda from something around how they look and grow but I don't know what .


They grow into a big sprawling mess. The internet basically


----------



## eternal_noob (Dec 9, 2021)

Yes, this is quite interesting, mycorrhizal fungi connect trees with their mycelium. Good analogy.


> By analogy to the many roles intermediated by the World Wide Web in human communities, the many roles that mycorrhizal networks appear to play in woodland have earned them a colloquial nickname: the *Wood Wide Web*.


----------



## SirDice (Dec 10, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> Some say they are extraterrestrial life, the spores traveled through space.


Panspermia?

Don't think that happened though, fungi came around when life was well underway. Heck, the reason we can dig up coal now is because there was nothing that broke down ancient tree and plant material during the carboniferous period.


----------



## eternal_noob (Dec 10, 2021)

Yes. Could be an explanation. But i am no expert, i don't know if this is true.

But these Prototaxites look pretty alien to me.







SirDice said:


> Heck, the reason we can dig up coal now is because there was nothing that broke down ancient tree and plant material during the carboniferous period.


The Prototaxites are much older.


----------



## SirDice (Dec 10, 2021)

Everything from the Paleozoic periods looks alien


----------



## sidetone (Dec 31, 2021)

The 7 Safest Mushrooms to Forage and Eat
					

Perfect for novice foragers, these mushrooms are delicious, easy to find, and are not easily confused with toxic species.




					getpocket.com


----------



## eternal_noob (Dec 31, 2021)

This list is dangerous for beginners.

1. Puffball Mushrooms
There are some poisonous ones, e.g. Scleroderma citrinum. In addition, they can easily be confused with young Amanita phalloides (deadly)

2. Chanterelles
Can easily be confused with Omphalotus olearius, a very poisonous look-alike.

3. Oyster Mushrooms
Can easily be confused with Pleurocybella porrigens (deadly)

4. Chicken of the woods
Can easily be confused with Hapalopilus rutilans (deadly)

The rest should be relatively save.


----------



## eternal_noob (Apr 28, 2022)

Speaking of Hapalopilus rutilans:

Laetiporus sulphureus (Chicken of the woods):


Hapalopilus rutilans (Cinnamon bracket*)*:


Very similar look!


----------



## grahamperrin@ (Apr 28, 2022)

Logical, Captain.


----------



## astyle (Apr 28, 2022)

eternal_noob said:


> 2. Chanterelles
> Can easily be confused with Omphalotus olearius, a very poisonous look-alike


For me, at least, it's not that easy to confuse the two... Chantrelles have a much more delicate cap, and a much more consistent, clean and pale orange color. Not to mention the good stuff is easy to clean, dirt doesn't stick to it. The good stuff - rinse, cut up, fry with onions - no need to soak it, even.


----------

