# FreeBSD for power desktop Linux user?



## harishankar (Jun 29, 2009)

I am a long-time power desktop Linux user, or at least based on my typical usage; as I do programming as well as some media work on my current Debian Linux platform.

I use a HP dv6314 laptop with Intel Core 2 Duo 1.7 GHz, with onboard Intel HDA sound, IPW 3945 wireless and e1000 ethernet, NVidia GeForce 7400 mobile and I use the following software:

1. Mencoder/mplayer for video conversion / editing / playing and writing to a DVD.
2. DeVeDe for writing video DVDs.
3. Python programming, PHP editing and maintaining my website.
4. Drawing and editing comics with a WizardPen-based 5.5x4" tablet in GIMP. I'm not sure if the WP driver is supported in BSD.
5. Play SDL-based games (and occasionally 3d games like Flightgear).
6. Occasionally compose music with Rosegarden and Timidity softsynth.
7. Watch YouTube videos occasionally. 

I'm not sure if it's worth switching to FreeBSD, but I'd like the opinion of experienced FreeBSD users if I can even accomplish some of the above tasks in FreeBSD. Or even if I can, how much of customization I will need to achieve the results above.

On Linux, most of the hardware on the laptop is supported.

In particular, I'm concerned whether video editing etc. etc. is possible and optimal in BSD as opposed to Linux.

You might ask "why not stick with Linux?"

Actually I'm not sure either way, but of late I am very interested in BSD and would like to really find out if it can be an attractive desktop alternative for me.


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## vermaden (Jun 29, 2009)

Hi,



> 1. Mencoder/mplayer for video conversion / editing / playing and writing to a DVD.


Works like a charm.



> 2. DeVeDe for writing video DVDs.


Havent used it personally, but its in Ports:
http://freshports.org/multimedia/devede/



> 3. Python programming, PHP editing and maintaining my website.


Will work like a charm.



> 4. Drawing and editing comics with a WizardPen-based 5.5x4" tablet in GIMP. I'm not sure if the WP driver is supported in BSD.


Dunno mate, you will have to google it out.


```
5. Play SDL-based games (and occasionally 3d games like Flightgear).
```
Works like a charm.



> 6. Occasionally compose music with Rosegarden and Timidity softsynth.


All in Ports:
http://freshports.org/audio/rosegarden/
http://freshports.org/audio/timidity/
http://freshports.org/audio/timidity++/



> 7. Watch YouTube videos occasionally.


Firefox with Gnash/Flash 9 in Linux Compatibility Mode will do the job.



> On Linux, most of the hardware on the laptop is supported.


All the hardware you mentioned is supported, to get binary nVidia driver be sure to install i386 version of FreeBSD.


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## harishankar (Jun 29, 2009)

My only concern was the WizardPen driver, for which google really hasn't helped me at all. The only reference to FreeBSD and WizardPen are threads I've created myself 

It is an Xorg input driver, so I assume it should compile in FreeBSD?

Also since I plan to heavily do video work, isn't using i386 sub-optimal. 

I'd prefer the FreeBSD AMD64 version if possible, but from what you tell me, there is no 3d driver yet for it. I read on the nvidia forums that there's work going on in the AMD64 branch, but there is no stable driver yet.

By the way, thanks for the prompt reply!


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## caesius (Jun 29, 2009)

Yup flash works like a charm as long as your expectations are low.

Sorry guys lets be realistic, browsing youtube/whatever will either result in a whole lot of npviewer.core's if using linux-flash, or a totally substandard experience if using gnash.

Retort with what you will, FreeBSD won't have a flash solution until it's native.


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## harishankar (Jun 29, 2009)

caesius said:
			
		

> Yup flash works like a charm as long as your expectations are low.
> 
> Sorry guys lets be realistic, browsing youtube/whatever will either result in a whole lot of npviewer.core's if using linux-flash, or a totally substandard experience if using gnash.
> 
> Retort with what you will, FreeBSD won't have a flash solution until it's native.



Also Flash technology is a crappy proprietary, opaque format, but it's been embraced as the standard way to deliver multimedia content online, unfortunately. 

However, there are worse things than Flash - say Windows Media and Realplayer plugins! ï¿½jr


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## ale (Jun 29, 2009)

caesius said:
			
		

> Yup flash works like a charm as long as your expectations are low.
> 
> Sorry guys lets be realistic, browsing youtube/whatever will either result in a whole lot of npviewer.core's if using linux-flash, or a totally substandard experience if using gnash.


Just a note...Youtube is still compatible with older flash version, so I have no problem at all watching videos on Youtube (and few others) using linux_base-fc4 and linux-flashplugin-7.
As I've said in another thread, on 8 the default linux_base will be based on Fedora 10 and people are right now working to create a flash 10 port for it.


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## vermaden (Jun 29, 2009)

harishankar said:
			
		

> It is an Xorg input driver, so I assume it should compile in FreeBSD?


Which one exacly?

These are results on fully installed xorg package:

```
% find /usr/local | grep -i wizard
./share/doc/jpeg/wizard.doc
./share/doc/qt/html/qwizard-h.html
./share/doc/qt/html/qwizard-members.html
./share/doc/qt/html/qwizard.html
./share/doc/qt/html/qwizard.png
./share/doc/qt/html/wizard-example.html
./share/doc/qt/html/wizard-wizard-cpp.html
./share/doc/qt/html/wizard-wizard-h.html
./include/qwizard.h
./lib/plugins/designer/libwizards.so
```

So I do not see any WizardPen driver here ...

Same for Ports:

```
% cd /usr/ports/
% make search name=wizard | grep Path:
Path:   /usr/ports/devel/wizardkit
Path:   /usr/ports/multimedia/dv
```



> Also since I plan to heavily do video work, isn't using i386 sub-optimal.


Why?



> I'd prefer the FreeBSD AMD64 version if possible, but from what you tell me, there is no 3d driver yet for it.


Yes, it will be pain in the ass, maybe you will get *nouveau* driver working, but not sure.



> I read on the nvidia forums that there's work going on in the AMD64 branch, but there is no stable driver yet.


Yeah, propably even testing/alpha versions are not available (I do not follow the development).



> By the way, thanks for the prompt reply!


You are welcome mate.


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## harishankar (Jun 29, 2009)

This is the driver page:

http://wizardpen-drv.wiki.sourceforge.net/


About i386 vs AMD 64, since I'm using a Intel Duo Core processor, won't video encoding slow down if I use a i386 version of the encoder?

I'm not too sure technically, but I have noticed a difference in compiling speed between gcc 32-bit and gcc 64-bit. There is a difference in the usage of CPU from what I could see.

I can give up the proprietary NVIDIA driver if the open source nv driver works well for 2d games though.


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## hitest (Jun 29, 2009)

harishankar,

Welcome to the FreeBSD forums!  In my opinion I think you will enjoy the challenge of learning how to use FreeBSD.  FreeBSD is very stable, fast, and secure.  I'm currently running KDE 4.2.2 on FreeBSD 7.2-amd64.


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## harishankar (Jun 29, 2009)

Downloading 7.2 AMD64 as we speak.  I should really be studying/revising for my Law exam Contracts-II which is the day after tomorrow.

I've read a lot on FreeBSD so far and its architecture really appeals to me as it seems to be less hodge-podge than Linux.

I even though, being a Debian user, that I should try Debian GNU/kFreeBSD, but that project hasn't released a stable version yet.


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## SuperMiguel (Jun 29, 2009)

let me know how that change works out for u... im also using debian on my desktop and been thinking to change


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## harishankar (Jun 29, 2009)

I'm afraid my bandwidth is severely limited, so it will take a couple of days before I can download all of 2 GB and do an installation.

However, I'll definitely report back my experience.

I used FreeBSD before (I think it was 5.3 or 5.5) and I have also tried DesktopBSD once, but I never really got it to a state of productive desktop as I wanted to.

However, with improved hardware support and this forum's support, I am much more optimistic about 7.2.


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## SuperMiguel (Jun 29, 2009)

just download  the cd.. dont download the dvd


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## harishankar (Jun 29, 2009)

SuperMiguel said:
			
		

> just download  the cd.. dont download the dvd



Oh, I've already around downloaded 600+ MB of the DVD

Since my bandwidth is metered, I think it's better I continue downloading it rather than waste all of 600 MB.


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## hitest (Jun 29, 2009)

harishankar said:
			
		

> Oh, I've already around downloaded 600+ MB of the DVD
> 
> Since my bandwidth is metered, I think it's better I continue downloading it rather than waste all of 600 MB.



As your bandwidth is metered then it may be your best bet to install your DE from the DVD.  KDE 4.2.2 is offered on the DVD.
Have fun!  

To extract the DVD iso so you can burn the DVD:

gunzip filename.gz


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## jb_fvwm2 (Jun 29, 2009)

relevant to the above posts, if one does
not want to install linux compatability:

```
pkg_add -r seamonkey
cd /usr/ports/graphics/gnash && make install
rehash
```
That should enable all youtube AFAIK fine.  (working here
so far)


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## harishankar (Jun 30, 2009)

jb_fvwm2 said:
			
		

> relevant to the above posts, if one does
> not want to install linux compatability:
> 
> ```
> ...



Thanks all.

Unfortunately for some reason the download manager I use KGet has crapped out when I reached 1.8 GB and the whole download is starting from the beginning again. 

x( x(


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## harishankar (Jun 30, 2009)

I've downloaded 8.0-CURRENT snapshot CD now. I'm going to try installing this on my external USB drive and that way I need not wipe out Linux on my notebook.

I think that installing to an external drive is definitely possible going by the threads I've found here as my notebook supports booting off USB drive.

This way, I can learn FreeBSD in a more comfortable way before I commit to dumping Linux (or not as the case may be).


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## wonslung (Jun 30, 2009)

caesius said:
			
		

> Yup flash works like a charm as long as your expectations are low.
> 
> Sorry guys lets be realistic, browsing youtube/whatever will either result in a whole lot of npviewer.core's if using linux-flash, or a totally substandard experience if using gnash.
> 
> Retort with what you will, FreeBSD won't have a flash solution until it's native.



This isn't true for me.

The linux compat flash works fine.  It's come a long way in the past 2-3 months even.  I'm using flash 9, linux compat for kernel 2.6 and f10 and i don't even get the freezes that i did originally.  I haven't had a single issue with flash since then.

it could be a hardware issue, but for me personally, it works fine.
i agree that gnash isn't ideal for youtube but the linux compat, when done right, works


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## harishankar (Jun 30, 2009)

Unfortunately I cannot get FreeBSD to boot off a USB hard disk (self-powered Seagate ~ 297 GB)

I have installed FreeBSD on the external hard drive and made the partition bootable as well while installing. I also installed the FreeBSD loader on the MBR of the external drive.

I configured the BIOS so that external USB drive is booted before notebook hard drive.

Neither the BIOS nor the GRUB bootloader (when I point to the partition) recognizes the external drive though the FreeBSD installer detected it when I installed it.

I cannot seem to go past this, because it seems that it is a BIOS issue or that simply that the a self-powered USB hard drive is non-bootable. I don't want to install FreeBSD's loader on the MBR of the notebook's internal hard disk.

It is as though the external hard disk simply does not exist when I boot. The BIOS simply ignores it and does not even TRY to boot off it.


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## jb_fvwm2 (Jun 30, 2009)

There are howto's or threads to put /boot on CF or cdr (maybe) to boot
Maybe you want to use GAG rather than GRUB to dual boot?  I would if
I used linux, if it could be done.  (Although I prefer a shareware
that also does backup, partition resize, etc:  BootIt, still using
it from win98 FE)
If someone knew a lot more about your boot options, partitions etc.,
someone might chime in.


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## wonslung (Jun 30, 2009)

i'm no expert but i do know you can make a boot disk to boot freebsd.  I've done it before.


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## bb (Jun 30, 2009)

You can try the following:

When you boot the FreeBSD CDROM, you should get an opportunity to escape to the "Loader Prompt" by hitting 6 in the boot menu.

The loader is one of the best things about FreeBSD. Use the lsdev command to get a list of the devices recognized by the bios.

You should get at least an entry for the cd drive. Here an example output:


```
OK lsdev
cd devices:
    cd0: Device 0x0
disk devices:
pxe devices:
OK
```

If your USB Stick is not listed, you have a problem. In my BIOS, it is a bit complicated with some USB Storage devices. I have to first configure them to act as a harddisk.

If it shows up, you can try to boot it off the cd loader next (can be disk1 as well, of course):


```
unload
set currdev=disk0s1a
boot
```

If that works, the only problem can be in the mbr. You can reinstall the mbr in FreeBSD with the fdisk tool. You have to find out the device name of your drive first. There are a lot of ways to do it, but one nice way is the command:


```
# camcontrol devlist
```

You get the device name for each SCSI device. Actually, this doesn't work for ATAPI devices, but USB storage is implemented in the SCSI stack. Now use fdisk to reinstall the mbr (use the correct device of course):


```
# fdisk -B /dev/da0
```


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## harishankar (Jun 30, 2009)

Hi, I think FreeBSD can detect the device, otherwise it would not have installed it on the USB hard disk.

I'll try your excellent suggestion using the loader prompt on the install disk.

Regards.


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## harishankar (Jun 30, 2009)

Actually it doesn't work still. The external hard disk device is still not detected by the loader when I type *lsdev*. I think the FreeBSD kernel needs to load the USB modules for this to work.


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## bb (Jun 30, 2009)

Not really: Within the loader, the FreeBSD kernel is not active. The loader fully depends on the BIOS to setup devices.

Does lsdev show your internal drive?


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## SuperMiguel (Jun 30, 2009)

where is that guide to install freebsd on a compact flash?


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## harishankar (Jun 30, 2009)

bb said:
			
		

> Not really: Within the loader, the FreeBSD kernel is not active. The loader fully depends on the BIOS to setup devices.
> 
> Does lsdev show your internal drive?



Yes, it does show the CDROM and the internal drive.

I think part of the problem is that the BIOS is refusing to detect the external USB hard drive even though it has that option for boot up.

Very peculiar. The BIOS is Phoenix BIOS from http://www.hp.com an update which I downloaded and flashed from Windows Vista (they only provide .exe files). Even with the "updated" BIOS I saw no change.


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## hitest (Jul 1, 2009)

harishankar said:
			
		

> Yes, it does show the CDROM and the internal drive.
> 
> I think part of the problem is that the BIOS is refusing to detect the external USB hard drive even though it has that option for boot up.
> 
> Very peculiar. The BIOS is Phoenix BIOS from http://www.hp.com an update which I downloaded and flashed from Windows Vista (they only provide .exe files). Even with the "updated" BIOS I saw no change.



That is a drag!  Have you considered installing FreeBSD onto your HD?  FreeBSD supports dual booting with Linux.


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## harishankar (Jul 1, 2009)

I've decided to do the following:

1. I downloaded a Live Linux CD which I can use to back up and restore partitions (partedmagic). This so that I can take a full snapshot of my existing Debian system on an external drive.

2. I will wipe out Debian and install FreeBSD on my notebook and see how it goes. If there is a compelling reason to return to Linux, like lack of support for my hardware or wireless or I am unable to do something in FreeBSD which I absolutely want to do, I can always restore Debian.

It's a bit of a risk and gamble to mess with a well-established working, but I think with appropriate back up it should not be a problem.

Unfortunately I have no second computer or laptop free at the moment on which I can test FreeBSD which would be ideal.

I thought of using Virtualbox, but that will not give me a full experience of the OS as Virtualbox's own drivers will avoid hardware issues with FreeBSD.


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## harishankar (Jul 1, 2009)

hitest said:
			
		

> That is a drag!  Have you considered installing FreeBSD onto your HD?  FreeBSD supports dual booting with Linux.



I just missed your reply. Actually I don't have any free space on the HD and I cannot resize the Linux partition as well because it's quite full at the moment (almost 75%).

I don't want to get rid of Vista because I need it for Skype which I use to communicate with my brother overseas, and Skype won't play with 64-bit Linux even. Proprietary crap as it is, it's the only voice chat solution with video and there's no reliable video chat software on Linux either.


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## hitest (Jul 1, 2009)

harishankar said:
			
		

> I just missed your reply. Actually I don't have any free space on the HD and I cannot resize the Linux partition as well because it's quite full at the moment (almost 75%).
> 
> I don't want to get rid of Vista because I need it for Skype which I use to communicate with my brother overseas, and Skype won't play with 64-bit Linux even. Proprietary crap as it is, it's the only voice chat solution with video and there's no reliable video chat software on Linux either.



I understand.  That is a smart idea to make a snapshot back-up of your Debian installation.  I keep one partition of Windows XP Pro SP3 on one of my PCs so that I can easily access some proprietary company software.
I hope you enjoy the FreeBSD install, my friend!


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## harishankar (Jul 1, 2009)

hitest said:
			
		

> I understand.  That is a smart idea to make a snapshot back-up of your Debian installation.  I keep one partition of Windows XP Pro SP3 on one of my PCs so that I can easily access some proprietary company software.
> I hope you enjoy the FreeBSD install, my friend!



Yes, I'll need a few days though. I'm smack in the middle of my exams and this seems to be a non-ideal time for messing with my computer.

However, I'll still make a snapshot of my system before deciding whether to completely wipe it out or not.

I'd have preferred an external drive install, but for whatever reason that seems unfeasible. It's a pity because I have plenty of space on my 320 GB (effective 297 GB) seagate USB hard drive for this kind of thing and it's going waste.

The internal notebook drive is only around 150 GB effective capacity and I was unable to reduce Vista's NTFS partition size below 70 GB.


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## harishankar (Jul 2, 2009)

I've done it...

Installed FreeBSD 8.0-current on an external USB hard drive which actually booted from the BIOS.

I've installed Xorg, Xfce 4 and I'm now typing this in Firefox. It took a while to download the Xorg files, but luckily the connection was fast.

There's no pre-packaged binary KDE 4 for -current; had I realized it I would have downloaded 7.2-release. It will take ages to compile from ports. 

However, thanks to FreeBSD and the excellent handbook which I read from a tty, it was relatively painless (considering that FreeBSD is a geek OS anyway )


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## hitest (Jul 2, 2009)

harishankar said:
			
		

> I've done it...
> 
> Installed FreeBSD 8.0-current on an external USB hard drive which actually booted from the BIOS.
> 
> ...



Congratulations, my friend!!  Nicely done!  Yes.  Compiling KDE4 from source does take time.  For future reference you can also install the KDE4 packages from the CLI with this command:

# pkg_add -r kde4

That will pull down, install KDE4 from the Internet.


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## harishankar (Jul 2, 2009)

hitest said:
			
		

> Congratulations, my friend!!  Nicely done!  Yes.  Compiling KDE4 from source does take time.  For future reference you can also install the KDE4 packages from the CLI with this command:
> 
> # pkg_add -r kde4
> 
> That will pull down, install KDE4 from the Internet.



This is what I get when I try



> harishankar# pkg_add -r kde4
> Error: FTP Unable to get ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/amd64/packages-8-current/Latest/kde4.tbz: File unavailable (e.g., file not found, no access)
> pkg_add: unable to fetch 'ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/amd64/packages-8-current/Latest/kde4.tbz' by URL


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## hitest (Jul 2, 2009)

harishankar said:
			
		

> This is what I get when I try



That is odd, because I know that the pkg_add command works.

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x11-wm.html

Just to remove some obvious hurdles.  Do you have a working Internet connection with FreeBSD 8.0?  Can you compile programs from source using the ports collection?


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## harishankar (Jul 2, 2009)

I've added other programs from pkg_add, so the internet definitely works.

Also I ran portsnap fetch update but I didn't try compiling kde from source yet.

pkg_add xfce4 definitely worked. It appears that kde is not in -current as a binary package (or is it)?


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## DutchDaemon (Jul 2, 2009)

It is not, though other parts of kde4 are; see ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/amd64/packages-8-current/kde/


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## harishankar (Jul 2, 2009)

DutchDaemon said:
			
		

> It is not, though other parts of kde4 are; see ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/amd64/packages-8-current/kde/



Thanks. Looks like I dived into the deep end of FreeBSD. 

But I've done a lot so far. Got even my favourite game Wormux to play.

What I've done so far in freebsd (but it took a while of configuration etc. etc):

1. installed X, Xfce and su login for regular user
2. mountable/umountable filesystems for regular user
3. sound, video to work
4. network and internet
5. msttcore fonts (this one was easy)

The only thing missing so far is KDE. I would definitely start using FreeBSD as my regular desktop if only it supported: 

1. 3d acceleration for playing more graphic intensive games (this appears to be promising for x86-64 though).
2. my wizardpen graphics pen tablet which I use regularly to draw and colour my comics.

Everything else seems surmountable. In fact, I am surprised at FreeBSD's friendliness beneath the black and white command line, but maybe because of my already geeky background I'm assuming things too much.


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## tangram (Jul 2, 2009)

Nvidia + i386 is pretty decent in term of graphics performance. amd64 drivers are being worked on.


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## harishankar (Jul 2, 2009)

tangram said:
			
		

> Nvidia + i386 is pretty decent in term of graphics performance. amd64 drivers are being worked on.



The problem is my laptop is not booting any i386 OS I've tried so far.


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## hitest (Jul 2, 2009)

harishankar said:
			
		

> The problem is my laptop is not booting any i386 OS I've tried so far.



I'm running FreeBSD 7.2-amd64.  Maybe you might like to try the 64 bit version of the stable branch of FreeBSD?  This version comes with KDE 4.2.2 on the DVD.


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## harishankar (Jul 3, 2009)

hitest said:
			
		

> I'm running FreeBSD 7.2-amd64.  Maybe you might like to try the 64 bit version of the stable branch of FreeBSD?  This version comes with KDE 4.2.2 on the DVD.



It doesn't matter as of now. I wouldn't want to download another 2 GB just for this.

But once there is a stable release of 8.0, is it possible to switch from -current to -stable?


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## DrJ (Jul 3, 2009)

harishankar said:
			
		

> But once there is a stable release of 8.0, is it possible to switch from -current to -stable?



Sure, that is easy enough.  You will have to recompile all your ports though (or use compat7 in the mean while).

EDIT -- I misread, and thought you were going from 7-STABLE to 8.  Going from -current to -stable, both on 8, is trivial and requires no recompiliation.


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## DutchDaemon (Jul 3, 2009)

Switching from -current to -stable suggests 8-current to 8-stable? Then you'll have to switch a tag in your csupfile once 8-release hits the servers, that's all.


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## harishankar (Jul 3, 2009)

Thanks so far for all the help.

I think I'll purchase/download a FreeBSD 8 CD once it's released as production stable if I plan to install it as my main Operating System. By then I think there will be a working nvidia driver for x86-64. 

I think except the annoyance/time wastage of having to compile a few things which are not binary packaged, FreeBSD is otherwise an excellent desktop OS.

The only thing that is likely to hinder my full move to FreeBSD is that I won't be able to use my graphics pen tablet using it (I use it often enough that I cannot do without a working driver for this device).

Until then I'm happy dual-booting (or booting off my external USB in this instance).


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## wonslung (Jul 3, 2009)

I think the system of compiling software from source is a goods one once you get used to it.  Sure it takes more time than binary downloads but you end up with a system set up to your specific needs with software optimized for your hardware.  The only other downfall of the system is that no two systems are really the same and that can make it somewhat more difficult to track down problems when they DO occur but in my experience with the freebsd forums here, there hasn't been a major issue i haven't been able to resolve yet.

I feel like i've learned more in the first 2 weeks of using FreeBSD than i did the entire time i used linux and that's saying a lot.  It's mopstly due to the help provided in this forum and the EXCELENT online documentation via the freebsd handbook, that is an unparalleled source of information.


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## harishankar (Jul 3, 2009)

wonslung said:
			
		

> I think the system of compiling software from source is a goods one once you get used to it.  Sure it takes more time than binary downloads but you end up with a system set up to your specific needs with software optimized for your hardware.  The only other downfall of the system is that no two systems are really the same and that can make it somewhat more difficult to track down problems when they DO occur but in my experience with the freebsd forums here, there hasn't been a major issue i haven't been able to resolve yet.



I don't think I'll get used to compiling from source. I was using gentoo for around a year and then let it rot away, simply because the compile from source became MORE annoying over time. It wastes so much CPU cycles and time that I am surprised that a lot of people use this method of installing software.

The optimization part - well, it's very arguable point and I doubt whether the few microseconds of speed improvement is worth hours and hours of compilation.



> I feel like i've learned more in the first 2 weeks of using FreeBSD than i did the entire time i used linux and that's saying a lot.  It's mopstly due to the help provided in this forum and the EXCELENT online documentation via the freebsd handbook, that is an unparalleled source of information.



This is a totally different point from the above and I agree with you. 

Learning a system is different from doing all the grunt work over and over again. 

In my book learning should be about something fresh and bring you knowledge. 

Doing grunt-work or repeatedly executing commands or being forced to wait hours to get something to work which should take a few minutes is not part of my learning agenda.


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## tangram (Jul 3, 2009)

harishankar said:
			
		

> I don't think I'll get used to compiling from source. I was using gentoo for around a year and then let it rot away, simply because the compile from source became MORE annoying over time. It wastes so much CPU cycles and time that I am surprised that a lot of people use this method of installing software.



Then just stick with [cmd=]freebsd-update[/cmd] and use packages instead of ports


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## harishankar (Jul 3, 2009)

tangram said:
			
		

> Then just stick with [cmd=]freebsd-update[/cmd] and use packages instead of ports



That's why I like FreeBSD, because it gives choices.

Also sometimes it is necessary to use ports for some things, but since most software is available as packages, it does save eons of time.

I like to compile - when I write the code myself


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## hitest (Jul 3, 2009)

tangram said:
			
		

> Then just stick with [cmd=]freebsd-update[/cmd] and use packages instead of ports



I do have a fast FreeBSD box, but, I tend to use packages instead of ports.  FreeBSD is wonderful in that it gives you a lot of flexibility in the way you can install software.


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## harishankar (Jul 4, 2009)

Unfortunately the wpi driver doesn't seem to work on my system, and I followed the man pages for wpi as well as the freebsd handbook on wireless networking but no joy.

Wireless is annoying 

here's the output of wpa_supplicant 

```
harishankar# wpa_supplicant -Dbsd -iwpi0 -c/etc/wpa_supplicant.conf
ioctl[SIOCG80211, op 98, len 32]: Invalid argument
Failed to initialize driver interface
ELOOP: remaining socket: sock=4 eloop_data=0x800e091c0 user_data=0x800e050f0 handler=0x421840
```

dmesg output

```
harishankar# dmesg | grep wpi
wpi0: <Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG> mem 0xd8000000-0xd8000fff irq 16 at device 0.0 on pci2
wpi0: Driver Revision 20071127
wpi0: Hardware Revision (0x81)
wpi0: Regulatory Domain: MoW1
wpi0: Hardware Type: B
wpi0: Hardware Revision: ?
wpi0: SKU does support 802.11a
wpi0: [ITHREAD]
```

Also the wpi driver doesn't seem to work because it's missing the firmware and the man page doesn't mention how to build the firmware (it just says that you must get the firmware)



> DESCRIPTION
> The wpi driver provides support for the Intel 3945ABG Wireless network
> adapter wpi supports station, adhoc, and monitor mode operation.  Only
> one virtual interface may be configured at any time.  For more informa-
> ...



Where do I get the firmware from and how does the wpifw work? wpifw module is already loaded by the kernel, so obviously it's not working.


----------



## wonslung (Jul 4, 2009)

did you put 
	
	



```
wlan_scan_ap_load="YES"
wlan_scan_sta_load="YES"
wlan_wep_load="YES"
wlan_ccmp_load="YES"
wlan_tkip_load="YES"
```
in /boot/loader.conf along with the the proper module?


----------



## harishankar (Jul 4, 2009)

wonslung said:
			
		

> did you put
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, yes, all that done as per the handbook instructions.  I followed the instructions both in the handbook as well as those in the wpi man page.

No luck. The man page hints that I might need to obtain a firmware, but where do I get it from? I saw a hint that WPI firmware is not yet in FreeBSD in another thread. Is that so?


----------



## avilla@ (Jul 4, 2009)

from wpi(4)():



> This driver requires firmware to be loaded before it will work. For the loaded firmware to work the license at /usr/share/doc/legal/intel_wpi/LICENSE must be agreed to and the following line be added to loader.conf(5)():
> legal.intel_wpi.license_ack=1



add


```
wpifw_load="YES"
legal.intel_wpi.license_ack=1
```

to /boot/loader.conf and it will work (i've been using it for one year without a problem)


----------



## harishankar (Jul 5, 2009)

xzhayon said:
			
		

> from wpi(4)():
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, yes, I have tried that. It still doesn't work...

I said that I followed the man page for ipw and I looked at all that.


----------



## harishankar (Jul 5, 2009)

Sorry I meant man page for wpi


----------



## bb (Jul 7, 2009)

harishankar said:
			
		

> The problem is my laptop is not booting any i386 OS I've tried so far.



So you finally managed to boot off the USB drive?

This is a good thing. 8-current has an updated loader. That's why I use it to boot my system with a ZFS root. The thing is that you can boot FreeBSD-7 with the very same loader. If you want to try:

Download all files in ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/7.2-RELEASE/kernels
(If you already have a CD, you can take the files from the CD)

make sure you don't have a directory /boot/generic (default FreeBSD installation should leave you with the kernel in /boot/kernel)

run install.sh like so:


```
sh install.sh generic
mv /boot/generic /boot/7.2-RELEASE
```

this will unpack the kernel into /boot/generic and rename the directory to /boot/7.2-RELEASE.

when you reboot the system, go into the loader prompt and type the following:


```
unload
set kernel=7.2-RELEASE
boot -s
```

You can now see if your system can boot 7.2-i386. If it works, you will finally get a prompt to choose the shell. Of course you won't have a 32bit shell, so the only thing you can do at this point is to reset your system. But it will show you if it is possible to boot the 32 bit system.

By the way, have you tried 8-current i386? I cannot believe, that you can only boot the amd64 version.


----------



## harishankar (Jul 7, 2009)

Thanks for your tips. I have not tried 8-current i386, but I've tried a few Linux distributions i386 on my laptop like Ubuntu Hardy and they wouldn't go past the first screen and hang up on looking for devices. Only adm64 built OSes worked properly so far as I can tell.

However, having said that I don't mind trying FreeBSD i386, provided of course I can get my wireless to work. Unfortunately everything is set up as correctly as the man pages and the handbook indicated, but I've not got wpa_supplicant to work as you can see.


----------



## DutchDaemon (Jul 7, 2009)

No need to quote an entire post when replying ..


----------



## harishankar (Jul 7, 2009)

Hi, apologies.

I was just making it clear who I was replying to for future readers of the thread. Often I come across threads where I sometimes find it difficult to note who is replying to whom, because of the lack of quotation. 

But I agree with your observation, it could have been pruned. I was being lazy


----------



## DutchDaemon (Jul 7, 2009)

No prob. When your reply is right under the post you're replying to, either don't quote at all (it's implied), or just a relevant part of it.


----------



## dejamuse (Jul 9, 2009)

*Try PCBSD*

This is really quite amazing that in this entire long thread there's not a single mention of PCBSD. All the trouble of installing FreeBSD, KDE4, etc is eliminated by PCBSD, and the community is VERY responsive for getting bugs fixed, and dealing with hardware issues.

DesktopBSD is all but dead - forget it.

PCBSD gives you all the advantages of the port/package system plus the ultra convenience of the PBI system.  And now with the inclusion of the runports script, your own ports tree is completely isolated from the PCBSD ports tree, so you can't screw up the system by accidentally updating some port or accidentally deleting some package.

I just installed the latest version (7.1.1) using the 64 bit version on a new Intel i7 processor with 6GB RAM, on an ASUS P6T motherboard, with RAID-0 on a pair of 750GB SATA drives, and an HD-4850 Radeon VGA, all crammed into a super slim box.  I installed the OS in 15 minutes and everything worked - zero hardware problems.  Admittedly the VGA is overkill for what I'm doing and I haven't tried any 3D stuff or games with it, but I think it would work from what I've read.  There's been a very recent upgrade in the Nvidia drivers to fix a lot of issues too.  I was also investigating the AMD64 driver from Nvidia and was told by them it won't be available for some time because of some hardware problems, though it is actively being worked on (requires some kernel changes I believe that might not make it into FreeBSD 8).  There's a thread on that at the Nvidia forums (http://www.nvnews.net).

You generally won't find the 64bit version any faster.  I did it only because I'm running a server in a jail simultaneously with PHP and Drupal development, etc, etc, on the main machine so I wanted lots of memory, otherwise I'd recommend the 32 bit version and maxing out at 3GB RAM.  You'll also find that a lot of the ports have not been compiled into 64 bit packages, and Wine is not yet available for AMD64, should you want to run Windoze programs.  That said, the vast majority of available PBIs are available for 64 bit. Have a look at the selection here.

Getting FreeBSD to work complete with all the bells and whistles like a firewall, is no picnic!  It will literally take you weeks and that's if you're extremely knowledgeable, not to mention the hassle of upgrading and maintaining the installed packages.  That's exactly why PCBSD exists.  Check it out!

...Jeff


----------



## harishankar (Jul 10, 2009)

Yes, I checked out PC BSD. There are more than 1 CDs and the downloadable DVD is huge. And I don't have the internet bandwidth to do an FTP install either.

I would definitely love to try out PC BSD, but I will need the DVD sent to me free of cost. (I don't really want to buy a full set and pay for an OS that I'm probably just trying out and might not replace my desktop).

( The biggest concern for me about the *BSDs emerging from this thread in general is that there is a lack of drivers for specific peripheral hardware which I use, especially for things like digital pen-tablets (WizardPen in my case). I do a lot of digital drawing and colouring on my laptop and cannot do without it. I also use the HP built-in webcam for Skype video chat and I don't think FreeBSD has support for that either. The driver that supports it in Linux is uvcvideo )


----------



## digitalsedition (Jul 10, 2009)

I keep meaning to try PC-BSD, but I don't like KDE, and there is no xfce install, I know it can be installed post initial installation but I figured it would be crazy bloated with KDE and xfce. Plus it's going on a netbook with a 8gb hdd.


----------



## dejamuse (Jul 10, 2009)

Yes, it's true that cam support in BSD isn't great, but it's slowly improving.

PCBSD doesn't seem interested in producing a netbook version. With limited resources they just can't do it, but stripped down versions of FreeBSD exist and might be good choices for netbooks running Xfce.

At the moment PCBSD is for those who want a powerful desktop OS based on FreeBSD which is arguably more stable and secure than Linux with performance about the same.

The Wacom tablet driver is now included in the base install, so I can use my Intuos-2 tablet no problem.  Never heard of Wizard.

Skype is also available and if your cam is supported then you can also use the video option.

I tried Ubuntu and Kubuntu but didn't care for it. I've been using FreeBSD for years for running servers so I'm familiar with it and was sick of Windoze, so it works for me.  I'm also enamored with the ports system - there's nothing quite like it in the Linux world.

I was not a fan of KDE4 when it first came out, but it has been substantially improved since then and I've come to like it, and man, the PBI system is the cat's meow!  Installation of any program is less than 30 seconds, and web updates completely automatic.

Have a look at this video introduction to PCBSD.

...Jeff


----------



## harishankar (Jul 10, 2009)

I'll take a look at that video. 

Thanks for the link. 

Yes, I know Wacom is supported, but Wacom is again one of the more expensive brands and I cannot afford their range of tablets especially because I'm a hobbyist, not a pro. Wizardpen based tablets (and the brand that I bought - made locally by an Indian company) are 50% cheaper, so I bought that.

I know that the hardware support is increasing radically in the BSD world and PC-BSD really really interests me, but I am not able to download it with my current internet connectivity and I don't want to purchase CDs/DVDs for just testing it out. 

Currently I am unable to get even my wireless to work in FreeBSD, even with the supported driver. So I guess there's a bit of investment in time and effort involved, but even that can be overcome.

I wish I had the time and knowledge to write device drivers, but it's just a little beyond my grasp (my brother is a REAL techie - he writes drivers for VMs and is an official developer of Virtualbox employed by Sun).


----------



## harishankar (May 4, 2010)

I've come back here because I'm still looking to migrate to FreeBSD, but there are a few deal breakers I haven't found satisfactory solutions for:

1. MIDI music creation software. After googling around I'm still not sure if soft-synth works like in Linux or not. Especially the part about Timidity which runs as a background process and allows MIDI-aware programs to connect to it like a MIDI port.

2. Xorg drivers for WizardPen pen tablet. While still not a big issue for me, I'd love to be able to use my graphics pen tablet in FreeBSD.

3. Support for Gnome/Bluetooth. I would love to be able to connect to my mobile phone to download pictures from it. Not sure if this support is implemented yet.

I'm so... so... tempted by FreeBSD, because my website currently runs on a FreeBSD based hosting and I am impressed by the increased performance over ordinary Linux shared hosting. Wondering if the desktop scenario will suit my needs as well.


----------



## SirDice (May 4, 2010)

harishankar said:
			
		

> 1. MIDI music creation software. After googling around I'm still not sure if soft-synth works like in Linux or not. Especially the part about Timidity which runs as a background process and allows MIDI-aware programs to connect to it like a MIDI port.


The software will work fine but there is a serious lack of supported MIDI hardware (meaning MIDI-in, out, through).



> 2. Xorg drivers for WizardPen pen tablet. While still not a big issue for me, I'd love to be able to use my graphics pen tablet in FreeBSD.


If it works on Linux it's quite likely to also work on FreeBSD (minor exceptions aside).



> 3. Support for Gnome/Bluetooth. I would love to be able to connect to my mobile phone to download pictures from it. Not sure if this support is implemented yet.


Tricky. Bluetooth works fine but Gnome/Bluetooth is too Linux specific to work properly on FreeBSD.


----------



## dennylin93 (May 4, 2010)

harishankar said:
			
		

> 1. MIDI music creation software. After googling around I'm still not sure if soft-synth works like in Linux or not. Especially the part about Timidity which runs as a background process and allows MIDI-aware programs to connect to it like a MIDI port.



Rosegarden works.


----------



## harishankar (May 5, 2010)

Finnally success. Posting this message from FreeBSD.

I got Gnome+GDM working, wireless networking is configured. The biggest issue was using the wlan0 and not wpi0 as I tried earlier. My /etc/rc.conf looks like this now:


```
wlans_wpi0="wlan0"
ifconfig_wlan0="WPA DHCP"
```

Now I need to set up the other things, but thanks to the availability of the internet connection I can do it much easier.


----------



## harishankar (May 5, 2010)

The wizardpen driver requires EVDEV kernel interface which is Linux specific.


----------



## alp (May 5, 2010)

harishankar said:
			
		

> I'd prefer the FreeBSD AMD64 version if possible, but from what you tell me, there is no 3d driver yet for it. I read on the nvidia forums that there's work going on in the AMD64 branch, but there is no stable driver yet.


Devel version of nvidia driver works for me for a long time on my workstation. The workstation works without powering off for weeks (sometimes we have some problems with power) and I haven't noticed any shortages of the driver. However, the only heavy use of this driver on my work is to run screensaver.


----------

