# What I don't like in 9.0 already.



## RusDyr (Dec 23, 2011)

I don't like changes in the ISO image so that there is no way to boot that image from syslinux. FreeBSD 8.x boots perfectly because it contains mount CD-ROM (and ISO) to /dev/md0, while 9.0 has not. (see,there). Yes, I know about memstick image. But I want to have already have been *worked* ability to multiboot USB flash.

Installer. I understand that it's a step to user-friendliness. But:

Where is the ability for advanced users? 
Where is the "Alt+F4 shell", where you can view the process of installation? 
How can I change the installation source? 
How can I set up an interface, if I can't even view is it up or down? 
And, by the way, isn't a time to make netmask in /xx format instead of decimal xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx? 
Why don't try to generate the default route from IP and netmask as Ubuntu does: by finding out minimal allowed host IP in this network and proposing it as a router IP?
If I do label a partition, why is it not used in /etc/fstab?
Where is promised ZFS install support?

Excuse my impulsiveness, but these changes drive me crazy, especially with broken support of boot ISO image.

IMHO, it's the wrong way.


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## wblock@ (Dec 23, 2011)

Some of those may already be in PRs for bsdinstall: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr...&responsible=&multitext=&originator=&release=

If features you want aren't already in there, enter a PR for them.  If you can include a patch, please do.  bsdinstall is mostly sh(1).  Remember also that bsdinstall is not meant to be a feature-for-feature replacement for sysinstall.


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## ika256 (Jan 7, 2012)

Also will be great if bsdinstall can "back out" (step back if you mistakenly choose something wrong).


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## RusDyr (Jan 12, 2012)

wblock@ said:
			
		

> Some of those may already be in PRs for bsdinstall: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr...&responsible=&multitext=&originator=&release=


7 critical + 19 non-critical problems and only 3 (*three*) solved.
Last change in SVN: *6 weeks ago*.
 Just brilliant for thing that is the first (and so the most important) part of [start] using FreeBSD, isn't it? On the threshold of releasing 9.0-RELEASE we are have bugged installer without ability to change it to old sysinstall. Are there only me see _a little bit_ a problem?!




> If features you want aren't already in there, enter a PR for them.  If you can include a patch, please do.  bsdinstall is mostly sh(1).  Remember also that bsdinstall is not meant to be a feature-for-feature replacement for sysinstall.


BSDInstall doesn't fully ready for production. Isn't it clear? So I don't understand why it's still in 9.x branch announced to be almost production.

I'll try to make some patches, but again - it's obviously strange to ask patches from me while there are many opened PR and no activity in SVN.


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## wblock@ (Jan 12, 2012)

It would be nice to see more commits, but that's not under my control.  A couple of those PRs are mine, with patches that add (IMO) needed features.  I'm starting to think that what really needs to be done is for someone to fund the integration of bsdinstall with pc-sysinstall and add the missing features so many people want.  The Foundation might be willing to do that; there's a contact address there.


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## SNK (Jan 12, 2012)

wblock@ said:
			
		

> It would be nice to see more commits, but that's not under my control. ...



How can we bug someone to get the patches committed? E-mail, IRC? (I understand they are all volunteers, but it can't be wrong to express some interest.) I wouldn't mind to order pizza for the committer, or make an extra donation to the Foundation.


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## aragon (Jan 12, 2012)

RusDyr said:
			
		

> BSDInstall doesn't fully ready for production. Isn't it clear? So I don't understand why it's still in 9.x branch announced to be almost production.


Where has it been announced as such?


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## wblock@ (Jan 12, 2012)

Committing also includes testing, one of the more difficult things to do with an installer where the target hardware can be almost anything.  That adds delay, as do lack of familiarity with new code like bsdinstall, territory (most developers will be reluctant to commit to another's project, at least without permission or association), and other priorities and commitments (doing work that pays the bills, interacting with actual humans in the real world occasionally).  Also, there was a code freeze for 9.0-RELEASE until very recently, which prevented commits.  And I think I saw a note from Nathan Whitehorn (bsdinstall author) on a mailing list that he'd been busy.

Doug Barton did a public funding project for ports-mgmt/portmaster which could be duplicated if funding was a problem, and Devin Teske has been working on a couple of run-time configuration utilities that might bridge the gap between what bsdinstall does and what sysinstall did.  There are others, these are just the ones that come to mind.

bsdinstall PRs show up on the freebsd-sysinstall mailing list.  Questions about bsdinstall maybe should go to the all-purpose freebsd-questions mailing list.

No idea on IRC, which I must shamefully admit to having avoided so far.  I do know there are some active FreeBSD groups there.


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## RusDyr (Jan 13, 2012)

aragon said:
			
		

> Where has it been announced as such?


Good morning, sir.
FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE Announcement:


> ...This is the first release from the stable/9 branch
> ...
> A new installer, bsdinstall(8) has been added and is the installer used by the ISO images provided as part of this release
> ...


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## RusDyr (Jan 13, 2012)

wblock@, I'm afraid I didn't understand you clearly - where we (or, to be more specific, I) can donate?


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## wblock@ (Jan 13, 2012)

At present, there isn't any place to donate for specific bsdinstall or related projects.  But you can contribute by participating on the mailing lists, or writing patches, or possibly contacting the Foundation.


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## wblock@ (Jan 14, 2012)

A followup note: when submitting PRs, please be specific on the conditions it takes to repeat the problem.  For example, the exact sequence of menu selections and data entered to cause a problem to appear.  Being able to replicate a problem makes it much easier to solve.


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## RusDyr (Jan 16, 2012)

Made donation to http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/
*wblock@*, it's common rules for submitting PRs, isn't it?  However, my topic about ideas or feature requests, it's not the problem "how can we repeat that".


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## wblock@ (Jan 16, 2012)

For feature requests, just be as specific as possible.  Taken to the extreme, you say "It should do this, and here's a patch to add that feature."


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## RusDyr (Jan 17, 2012)

> "It should do this, and here's a patch to add that feature."


...,and here is new OS what I wrote to work with that new featured installer" ;-D

BTW, are there any bsdinstall roadmap, except http://wiki.freebsd.org/BSDInstall?

P.S. That's how I see good, user-friendly installer for modern OS:


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## jdek (Jan 30, 2012)

*RIP for sysinstall*

[ Separate thread merged in -- Mod. ]

Do not know what the reason was for implementing the new installer for FreeBSD but I really do not like it. Have been using FreeBSD for a long time now. One of the major advances was sysinstall with its clear overview over the installation process and the fact that is was easy to use. The experience with the new installer is disappointing, given the fact that it was promoted as an improvement. It is not from this user point of view. There is this rule: if it ain't broke don't fix it. Sysinstall was far out the most user friendly installer I have seen on a BDS-distro. Like the back of my hand. Compared to sysinstall there arenâ€™t that many choices anymore. I dislike the partitioning system, that was very very clear with sysinstall. What I liked about sysintall was that one could finely choose what to do. And it had a useful post install configuration menu. Where is the option to install the smallest  configuration possible? Modern is not always good.


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## yks (Jan 30, 2012)

My two pence: that would be really great if the FreeBSD developers take their time to test and approve the PC-BSD installer instead of spending their precious time developing a new installer from scratch. It is more effective to collaborate than do the same things separately, and obviously there is no issue with licensing or whatever in the case of PC-BSD.
I personally never mind the features, but it was pretty hard to explain to my friend e.g. what he should fill in the filesystem type fields... I do not think that the new installer is suitable for such a great system as FreeBSD. At least for today.


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## phoenix (Jan 30, 2012)

The PC-BSD installer backend (pc-sysinstall) is part of the FreeBSD source tree already.

And the bsdinstall devs have stated many times that the end-goal is to have bsdinstall be a front-end to the pc-sysinstall backend.

IOW, exactly what you are complaining about is already happening.


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## phoenix (Jan 30, 2012)

@jedk: Please search the forums, this has been covered many times.

And here's a nice comparison I wrote up for OSNews.

It's really time to let sysinstall die.


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## wblock@ (Jan 30, 2012)

FreeBSD 9 install with sysinstall: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=29316


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## jdek (Jan 30, 2012)

I am not searching forums all the time for everything new on FreeBSD and I did not find you article searching this time. The arguments in your article can not compensate the fact that the new installer is a disappointment from the user point of view. 

I am - as an old fashioned FreeBSD user - disappointed by this new installer. Regardless the functionality that lacked sysinstall. The concept of sysinstall was great. Easy to use and FreeBSD distinguished itself with it. Seems to me that there is more death now than sysinstall.


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## yks (Jan 30, 2012)

That's great. I must have missed that. Tried to find some more info:
http://www.freebsdnews.net/2011/02/19/bsdinstall-freebsd-installer-sysinstall-pc-sysinstall/
Unfortunately, the team have not fulfilled their goal for the 9.0-RELEASE. Probably, had they, there'd have been much less complaining.


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## yks (Jan 30, 2012)

In this very time, in another thread, http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?p=164228 there has been similar discussion.
The guys just a little failed to achieve their goals in time.
Probably, it would have been fair to leave bsdinstall out of RELEASE, until it matures. But the future seems more attractive.


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## techtonik (Feb 7, 2012)

A failure to communicate that bsdinstall is not ready for the prime time brings a lot of disappointment. From the other side future releases will surely be more sweet (if only bsdinstall bus factor doesn't reach the critical mark).


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## chrcol (Apr 26, 2012)

I just found this after wondering why ftp install didnt work on 9.0, I think the major weakness is the disk partitioning, and that if you make a mistake the whole process is restarted.

I had the disk partitioning already done by sysinstall, going to manual scared the hell out of me as it showed all my drives and made me think it was going to install FreeBSD to the wrong drive. It shows no indication of the active drive selected for the install, just a list of all partitions. Guided was a problem because it was asking me what partition to create when they were already created. Luckily it's a shell option so I entered the shell, made the fstab and just exited right after. The rest of the install seemed ok but I noted also the less control over what*'*s installed.

I am curious if this no longer has the issue sysinstall has when booting of a USB stick on a ISO.


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