# my observations as a new user here about software packages



## jrch2k10 (Nov 13, 2009)

well, obviously i come from linux, exactly kubuntu 9.10 amd64, last week i tried osol stable and well nice project but is still useless for a desktop system, after that i said wth let give freebsd a chance, so i get freebsd 8.0 and im semi happy for now.

i have to say ok freebsd kernel is really nice, i dont feel linux is bad or anything but abi unstability is an issue for me but for the rest kubuntu 9.10 is pure awesomeness with some ppa's ofc to fix some minor issues.

about software availability/ease of install/stability well osol sux very very hard, excluding the fact of broken compilers ofc, but here freebsd sux too not as hard as osol ofc.

to be more specific here:
1. install software is a pain in the ass for me a C++ dev dont even think about average joe.
2. availability is very weird, i remember redhat and the lost dependency quest for a special rpm , and well sometimes you have a bleeding edge build from 1 package or a very old build of another
3. pkg_add* sux, ports like ebuild well i dont like it at all, beside is hard to keep in memory all the stuff installed or available to install, no pkg_info is not useful

so far ok i have my desktop in almost basic shape downloading sources/patches/etc + getting a recent gcc but really freebsd is better at kernel lvl there is not doubt about it in most stuff but at desktop distro lvl linux is kicking freebsd ass so badly that i feel sorry for it.

dont get me wrong im not flaming you guys or anything but i think i have to tell this so it can be solved beside my english is not perfect so some thing may look harsh but translation isnt easy 

my 2 cents here is *APT*, so far i cant see anything superior than apt for software management in the oss or commercial world, i have been using it for 10 years and never let me down, apt is fast, very well supported with tools at graphical or text lvl, repositories are fast and easy to use, deb packaging tool are extremely tested (show me any way faster to build a package that checkinstall), software deploy from local mirror is a dream(really apt-mirror and enter, voila is done), multi plataform for packages and tools (1 repo with any architecture build and apt use the rigth one for your cpu effortless), source/binary/other separations so i dont have to waste disk space if i dont want sources or things like man, lol have you tried PPA- PPA is the shit,and a zillion things more

like i said in osol forum too, stop reinventing the wheel, really pkg_add is going nowhere these days, ok maybe in the dino ages when bsd was the thing pkg_add was awesome but here in the 21 century apt is the way, beside i asure apt is going to provide a very noticeable interest in freebsd very fast, something like the ease of apt/kubuntu with freebsd kernel would be a nice killer combo aka no more abi unstability and driver crash cuz someone rename a function lol, desides that have a central repo and maybe some PPA repos too have to be easier to debug and test that keep hunting patches everywhere, beside the fact is easier to maintainers


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## DutchDaemon (Nov 13, 2009)

Do you call that 'giving FreeBSD a chance'? One whole week plus an incomplete understanding of what FreeBSD is (a server OS with the ability to add extra functionality, like X, which is in no way part of FreeBSD) and the various ways to install and maintain 3rd-party software?

Anyway, we've had way too many topics about this already, so please read the following links first:

http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=961
http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=2838
http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=2090
http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=6752
http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=6808
http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/bsd4linux1.php
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/

Rest: don't reply if it's already covered elsewhere.


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## LateNiteTV (Nov 13, 2009)

i think that everyone who actually USES freebsd on a regular basis is more than happy with the ports/package system it has.

maybe if you would step outside your linux mindset you would realize what freebsd actually is.


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## SirDice (Nov 13, 2009)

jrch2k10 said:
			
		

> to be more specific here:
> 1. install software is a pain in the ass for me a C++ dev dont even think about average joe.


What's difficult about `# cd /usr/ports/www/apache22 && make install clean` to install apache 2.2?



> 2. availability is very weird, i remember redhat and the lost dependency quest for a special rpm , and well sometimes you have a bleeding edge build from 1 package or a very old build of another


Never had any issues and I've been using FreeBSD for more then 10 years.



> 3. pkg_add* sux, ports like ebuild well i dont like it at all, beside is hard to keep in memory all the stuff installed or available to install, no pkg_info is not useful


Try `# pkg_version -v` or install ports-mgmt/portmaster, ports-mgmt/portupgrade or any of the other tools.



> so far ok i have my desktop in almost basic shape downloading sources/patches/etc + getting a recent gcc but really freebsd is better at kernel lvl there is not doubt about it in most stuff but at desktop distro lvl linux is kicking freebsd ass so badly that i feel sorry for it.


Perhaps you should try reading the handbook?
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ports.html



> dont get me wrong im not flaming you guys or anything but i think i have to tell this so it can be solved beside my english is not perfect so some thing may look harsh but translation isnt easy


Don't get me wrong either but we have an excellent handbook, I suggest you read it. It's also available in other languages.

And as already noted, stop using linuxisms.


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## tingo (Nov 13, 2009)

jrch2k10 said:
			
		

> 1. install software is a pain in the ass for me a C++ dev dont even think about average joe.



This might come as shock for you - FreeBSD isn't for every average joe. It never was, and it never will be.
FreeBSD is only for the average joes who are willing to spend some of their time to actually learn how to use it.

That said, most of us average joes actually using FreeBSD are quite happy, and have found that the time we spent learning FreeBSD was a worthwhile investment.


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## jrch2k10 (Nov 13, 2009)

what it have to do with mindsets?? in any debian based distro i can have a full fledged desktop/server system in 5m(+ downloading time ofc) with every package up to latest version, if i wanna dev or contribute to a project i just download the sources or headers, etc. in freebsd i have 3 days compiling to have the basics like inkscape 0.47 or a stable firefox cuz the default crash a lot in my system at least. is not mindset is functionality and efficiency. in the server side well maybe depending what you install. i guess this is the wrong audience for this, ill wait until debian give me a kfreebsd system in a couple of months. note im migrating cuz linux kernel broke badly acpi again so this laptop is uselless with linux kernel until 2.6.32 or 33 when the regression get fixed and ofc i cant downgrade to a non bugged one cuz it breaks drm in intel + and ofc drm git dont compile either so im screwed. my point is freebsd and osol have it all to become a huge success in desktop enviroments but ports and ips package systems are true showstoppers. to dutchdaemon im giving it a chance but in real life i own my company wich dedicate to software dev and services in unix based os, so i tend to identify wich problems are basic to enterprise enviroments, especially since my goverment make a law have non windows system in the guberment plataforms at all lvls even desktops. so like i said freebsd do what it say and it do it rigth. so for fun in my pc and to learn new coding secret in another system solaris and freebsd are very fun, for fully supported enterprise deployment ports is just not enough. anyway i wont speak about it anymore and wait quietly for debian/bsd system


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## graudeejs (Nov 13, 2009)

No human is able to read your block of text junk....
get familiar with enter (aka return) key


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## Oxyd (Nov 13, 2009)

jrch2k10 said:
			
		

> my point is freebsd and osol have it all to become a huge success in desktop enviroments but ports and ips package systems are true showstoppers.



Well, as has already been said -- FreeBSD (and neither OpenSolaris) doesn't target the desktop: they're primarily server operating systems.  Unlikely Linux, which has no clear goal and tries to be an OS for everything, FreeBSD is aiming on servers.

That said, with some effort you can easily make FreeBSD into a full-blown desktop (I know because I do use FreeBSD as my desktop) -- but that isn't really the main point of FreeBSD.


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## DutchDaemon (Nov 13, 2009)

I've seen enough 

Closed.


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