# Laptop recommendation



## Whattteva (Sep 6, 2013)

I've tried looking around the stickies and searches, but couldn't really find anything that pertains to what I am looking for.

Actually, I'm surprised that there isn't a stickied thread about general hardware recommendation that will work with FreeBSD out of the box without requiring hacks, etc. I'm guessing the reason for the lack of the sticky is because of more complicated reasons. Anyways, on to what I'm here for.

I'm looking to buy a laptop for general "desktop use" as well as some light coding for work, and for me to learn more FreeBSD. I will install X11 and will most likely go with LXDE for desktop environment. I will also have it setup to dual boot Windows for the occasional gaming that I do.

I'm a relative newcomer to POSIX (about six months experience administering a FreeNAS system). I'm very impressed with the NAS performance so far and love FreeBSD's philosophy, which together play a crucial role in my decision to choose FreeBSD over a Linux distribution.

I know how to use the ports tree and have managed to install Nginx, Jenkins, Subversion, irssi, weechat, PHP5, bitlbee, tmux, terminator, Vim, etc. from source. I'm very comfortable with the terminal and try to use mostly terminal applications whenever possible. I generally always have tmux, weechat, and multitail (to monitor daemons) open at all times. I use Vim as my preferred text editor and Mutt as my mail user agent.

Unfortunately, I do not yet know how to compile my own kernel (future project) and this is the primary motivating factor for me to open this thread as I am trying to avoid hardware compatibility headaches and potential waste of money on a laptop that I cannot use. Note that I'm a bit partial for the underdogs and generally try to buy AMD in the past. However, in this case, I will tend to whichever product will give me the least headache.

I hope I've given enough background information for you guys to digest. Thank you for giving this wall of text some of your precious time and for creating a wonderful OS.


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## vermaden (Sep 6, 2013)

Whattteva said:
			
		

> I'm looking to buy a laptop for general "desktop use" as well as some light coding for work, and for me to learn more FreeBSD. I will install X11 and will most likely go with LXDE for desktop environment. I will also have it setup to dual boot Windows for the occasional gaming that I do.



First, do not buy a laptop with an Intel CPU that has graphics in CPU (Core i3/i5/i5).

Second, do not buy one with dual graphics, FreeBSD does not support that and you will also have to disable one of the graphics in BIOS.

The best laptops for FreeBSD are these from 2008-2009:

ThinkPad X300 13" (I owned it and was very happy with FreeBSD on it)
ThinkPad X301 13"
Dell E6300 13"
ThinkPad T400 14" (I owned it and was very happy with FreeBSD on it)
Dell E6400 14" (I owned it and was very happy with FreeBSD on it)
ThinkPad T500 15"
Dell E6500
ThinkPad W500 15"

I also own ThnikPad W530 and FreeBSD is close to unusable


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## Juanitou (Sep 6, 2013)

Two links related to laptop compatibility, maybe useful:
The FreeBSD Laptop Compatibility List
Hardware - PC-BSD Wiki > Laptops


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## bkouhi (Sep 6, 2013)

Please have a look at this thread: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=39785

And also, please don't buy a "GIGABYTE Q2532-N" xx


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## CurlyTheStooge (Sep 6, 2013)

vermaden said:
			
		

> First, do not buy a laptop with an Intel CPU that has graphics in CPU (Core i3/i5/i5).
> 
> Second, do not buy one with dual graphics, FreeBSD does not support that and you will also have to disable one of the graphics in BIOS.



LOL. Does that apply on the AMD APUs too?



			
				vermaden said:
			
		

> I also own ThnikPad W530 and FreeBSD is close to unusable



The PC-BSD hardware wiki somehow suggests W530 works well with suspend and resume. I saw your thread and guess I'll have to drop the idea of buying a Thinkpad W series, which I could dual boot with Slackware and FreeBSD. 

Regards.


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## vermaden (Sep 6, 2013)

CurlyTheStooge said:
			
		

> LOL. Does that apply on the AMD APUs too?



I do not suggest Intel with integrated in CPU graphics because of the VT switch issue.

I do not know about AMD CPUs/APUs, but anything newer then HD3xxx is not supported in RELEASE.

TTM/GEM/KMS for latest Radeon CPU has beed added to HEAD/CURRENT this month.



			
				CurlyTheStooge said:
			
		

> The PC-BSD hardware wiki somehow suggests W530 works well with suspend and resume. I saw your thread and guess I'll have to drop the idea of buying a Thinkpad W series, which I could dual boot with Slackware and FreeBSD.



Could you post a link to this hardware wiki here?

You can still dual boot FreeBSD and Slackware with ThinkPad W, but you have to remember that for FreeBSD you have to disable one of the graphics cards in BIOS.


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## CurlyTheStooge (Sep 6, 2013)

vermaden said:
			
		

> I do not suggest Intel with integrated in CPU graphics because of the VT switch issue.
> I do not know about AMD CPUs/APUs, but anything newer then HD3xxx is not supported in RELEASE.
> TTM/GEM/KMS for latest Radeon CPU has beed added to HEAD/CURRENT this month.



Thanks.

I have always used Intel integrated graphics with Linux with average to good performance but I planned to get hold of a manually assembled AMD desktop with discrete graphics for Slackware and a Thinkpad. I'll have to carefully check every possibility now I guess. 




			
				vermaden said:
			
		

> Could You post a link to this hardware wiki here?



My fault totally. It says T530 and I saw W530. Need more caffeine. /Embarrassed/

http://wiki.pcbsd.org/index.php/Hardware#Laptops


Regards.


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## vermaden (Sep 6, 2013)

CurlyTheStooge said:
			
		

> My fault totally. It says T530 and I saw W530. Need more caffeine. /Embarrassed/
> 
> http://wiki.pcbsd.org/index.php/Hardware#Laptops



If T530 is reported for work, then you may try it, with ONLY integrated Intel graphics in the CPU (VT switching problem still remains) and check if the Fn keys from the keyboard work, they do not work on W530, acpi_ibm.ko is currently useless for W530.


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## jalla (Sep 6, 2013)

vermaden said:
			
		

> First, do not buy a laptop with an Intel CPU that has graphics in CPU (Core i3/i5/i5).
> 
> Second, do not buy one with dual graphics, FreeBSD does not support that and you will also have to disable one of the graphics in BIOS.
> 
> ...



I've used the newer Dell E6530 (Core i7 cpu + Nvidia graphics) for ~10 months. It works very well for me.


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## vermaden (Sep 6, 2013)

jalla said:
			
		

> I've used the newer Dell E6530 (Core i7 cpu + Nvidia graphics) for ~10 months. It works very well for me.



I would call it QUITE well, not VERY well.



> - Graphics card (NVS 5200M) is supported by the x11/nvidia-driver (Optimus must be disabled in bios)
> 
> (..)
> 
> Resume works only when X is running. In text-mode the screen remains dead after resume.



Also, can You switch back to VT after going into the X11? Nope.


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## jalla (Sep 6, 2013)

vermaden said:
			
		

> I would call it QUITE well, not VERY well.



Read again: It works very well for me.  



> Also, can You switch back to VT after going into the X11? *Nope.*



Ctrl-Alt-F[1234] takes you to the corresponding console, and Alt-F5 will bring back X. (The actual F-keys depend on how many VT's you have though).


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## vermaden (Sep 6, 2013)

jalla said:
			
		

> Ctrl-Alt-F[1234] takes you to the corresponding console, and Alt-F5 will bring back X. (The actual F-keys depend on how many VT's you have though).


With Nvidia yes, with Intel no.


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## DutchDaemon (Sep 6, 2013)

For the record, there is a Sticky at the top of the Mobile Computing forum, where your topic should have been posted: Notebook / Laptop compatibility list.


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## wblock@ (Sep 6, 2013)

My suggestion:

First, I suggest avoiding HP.  Their notebooks have had numerous problems since Carly drove that company into the ground (search on "HP BGA class action" for examples).  They also have a BIOS that restricts which wireless cards can be used.  Lenovo does the same anti-owner thing with the BIOS, enough of a reason for me to avoid them also.

I've had reasonable success with Acer, which makes computers for many of the other brands, including at least some Gateway and Toshiba notebooks.  Dell systems usually work, although Dell has a strange way of doing things backwards (upside-down USB ports, for example) and an unfortunate fondness for Broadcom peripherals.

Whatever you get, please add an entry for it to the compatibility list in @DutchDaemon's post above.


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## fonz (Sep 6, 2013)

wblock@ said:
			
		

> I've had reasonable success with Acer


Same here. Acer tend(s) to use commonly available hardware (mostly Intel and Atheros, as far as I can tell) for which (good) drivers usually become available pretty soon.

Acer laptops also tend to last a long time and can often take years of intensive use without any problems.


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## DutchDaemon (Sep 6, 2013)

HP are generally fine, but only the more expensive business/workstation models, like the EliteBook. Forget the Pavilion crap.


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## jrm@ (Sep 6, 2013)

wblock@ said:
			
		

> Lenovo does the same anti-owner thing with the BIOS, enough of a reason for me to avoid them also.



According to some posts on the Lenovo User Forum, the reason for the restrictions have to do with regulations, certifications and costs.  There are also some links that describe how to circumvent the whitelists*.  If I somehow estimate that these restrictions are simply an excuse for Lenovo to be overly greedy, I'll think twice about purchasing a Lenovo in the future, even if FreeBSD supports the wireless card or I can hack the firmare to use my own.  That being said, I'm quite happy with my X220.  There are lots of discussions about this model and its sucessor, the X230, on the mailing lists.  I think suspend/resume is being worked on and others have reported success controlling brightness.  My only complaints are that it seems sensitive to electrostatic discharge in the winter and I can't use a GPT partition scheme with the current firmware.  Maybe there is a fix, but I haven't looked into it in quite some time.

* I have no verification for any of the statements on the Lenovo forum.


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## Whattteva (Sep 13, 2013)

Thank you all for the responses. I'm sorry it took so long for me to reply. I've been very busy and have not had time to check the forums.

So, I'm going to make a list of summaries for quick reference for others to see:

Avoid Intel Core i3/i5/i7 or any Intel CPU's with IGP
Dual graphics is OK, but one would have to be disabled in BIOS
Avoid ThinkPad T530
Avoid Gigabyte Q2532-N
Avoid any AMD GPU's higher than 3xxx series
Avoid Lenovo and HP for locking wireless cards in BIOS

Good laptops:

ThinkPad X300
ThinkPad X301
ThinkPad W500
Dell E6400
Dell E6500
Most Acer
Dell is OK but uses Broadcom chip

Someone asked if AMD APU's are OK. I would also be interested to know the answer to that. Does anyone have any experience with them?

Also, someone seems to suggest that Dell's preference for Broadcom chip is bad. Can anyone explain why this is so?


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## DutchDaemon (Sep 13, 2013)

You can add HP EliteBooks as laptops that work fine with FreeBSD. I've been using the 8510w and 8560w for many years (make sure you get a supported Nvidia card as an option). Stay away from the cheaper-end HP.


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## CurlyTheStooge (Sep 13, 2013)

Whattteva said:
			
		

> So, I'm going to make a list of summaries for quick reference for others to see:
> [*]Avoid ThinkPad T530



That will be Thinkpad W530/520. Check @vermaden's thread for that. The T530/520 are reported to work better.

Regards.


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## wblock@ (Sep 13, 2013)

Whattteva said:
			
		

> Avoid Intel Core i3/i5/i7 or any Intel CPU's with IGP
> Dual graphics is OK, but one would have to be disabled in BIOS



I disagree with both of these.  Intel's built-in video mostly works, although I'm not sure about the newer Haswell stuff.  Also, the dual-video setup is a gamble, and cannot always be disabled in the BIOS.



> Also, someone seems to suggest that Dell's preference for Broadcom chip is bad. Can anyone explain why this is so?



Broadcom does not always release programming information, so driver support can be a problem.  In particular, their wireless cards are reputed to be good hardware but often cannot be used with FreeBSD.  My preferred solution is to replace those cards with Atheros cards.  That is more difficult or impossible on HP and Thinkpad (Lenovo) systems.


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## Whattteva (Sep 25, 2013)

Thanks for lots of good information so far. There is one more thing I'm curious of and I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this. Has anyone in here tried to use any of Apple's Macbook line of products with FreeBSD? If so, what kind of success/issues did you have?


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## wblock@ (Sep 25, 2013)

Some people do install FreeBSD on Macs: https://glenbarber.us/2011/11/12/Dual-Booting-OS-X-and-FreeBSD-9.html.


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## dbear6 (Oct 10, 2013)

My Thinkpad W530 works excellent with the graphics settings set to Dedicated, so I'm using nVidia rather than Intel graphics.


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