# Rename blacklist to «not well loved list».



## Hakaba (Jul 25, 2020)

Is there a plan to follow the fashion of renaming black/white slave/master with shamalow lang for FreeBSD ?
What you thing about this idea ?

I am sceptic about the reason and the efficience but if it is a good thing, maybe FreeBSD need to follow the movement ?


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## Cthulhux (Jul 25, 2020)

It does not. Honestly, a blacklist is (etymologically) not even remotely related to black people. Stop wasting the already limited resources for idiocy.


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## George (Jul 25, 2020)

Google switched to "blocklist" and "allowlist".


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## sidetone (Jul 25, 2020)

They may end up renaming a lot of words, if they rename this one.

Black death wasn't named after this.


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## Crivens (Jul 25, 2020)

I sure hope they don't. It is idiocracy live action, and I'm about fed up with synaptically challenged persons (aka idiots).


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## shkhln (Jul 25, 2020)

Just another victim of euphemism treadmill.


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## Mjölnir (Jul 25, 2020)

As an experiment, we could start to use the grammatical _neutrum_ for all subjects & objects appearing in our posts for a week.  This will be the funniest week in this historical year...


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## George (Jul 25, 2020)

The idea is to be more inclusive.
Google Chrome and Android move away from 'blacklist ... 9to5google.com › 2020/06/12 › g...


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## sidetone (Jul 25, 2020)

mjollnir said:


> As an experiment, we could start to use the grammatical _neutrum_ for all subjects & objects appearing in our posts for a week.  This will be the funniest week in this historical year...


If those words had enough for a big impact, it would backfire opposed to what you wanted.


I don't know why I comment here, I don't see the point in this discussion.


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## Cthulhux (Jul 25, 2020)

Elazar said:


> The idea is to be more inclusive.
> Google Chrome and Android move away from 'blacklist ... 9to5google.com › 2020/06/12 › g...



And who exactly is excluded when calling a blacklist a blacklist?


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## Hakaba (Jul 25, 2020)

My point is about the movement. Apple follow Google, Microsoft and others.
But for me, this is the first step of a very dangerous way. The acceptance of crimes is easiest if it is about «not as free as they wanted» poeple than slave.
But if FreeBSD is the last OS with blacklist or master/slave word in the doc, the OS can be stigmatised (for wrong reasons IMHO).
That is why I started this thread (and thanks, I share the majority of opinions expressed here)


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## a6h (Jul 25, 2020)

Hakaba said:


> follow the movement


The key word (phrase), _follow the movement_


Crivens said:


> It is idiocracy live action


That movie need one small modification:

```
teamA = teamA - teamB;
teamB = teamA + teamB;
teamA = teamB - teamA;
```


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## wolffnx (Jul 26, 2020)

Hakaba said:


> My point is about the movement. Apple follow Google, Microsoft and others.
> But for me, this is the first step of a very dangerous way. The acceptance of crimes is easiest if it is about «not as free as they wanted» poeple than slave.
> But if FreeBSD is the last OS with blacklist or master/slave word in the doc, *the OS can be stigmatised (for wrong reasons IMHO).*
> That is why I started this thread (and thanks, I share the majority of opinions expressed here)



I respect like anyone any race or religion
But sorry,but I dont see or imagine skinheads or naz#@ (sorry for post the entire word,corrected)
using FreeBSD only for that
or "that FreeBSD is the OS for the white people" concept in the future
is too stupid, and if anybody think like that person, has too much free time


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## msplsh (Jul 26, 2020)

Fortunately, the people who make these decisions aren't posting here...


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## Cthulhux (Jul 26, 2020)

Just like the story with the ridiculous CoC, the people who make these decisions are sorely missed here so they see where they are wrong.


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## meine (Jul 26, 2020)

Hakaba said:


> But if FreeBSD is the last OS with blacklist or master/slave word in the doc, the OS can be stigmatised (for wrong reasons IMHO).



FreeBSD getting stigmatized indeed could become an issue in some future. There will come a time that masses won't think back that discriminating people is far different from discriminating processes on a computer. IMHO a computer will always be a slave to the human pushing the buttons, and some computers rule other computers (indeed) in a master/slave relation -- stop what you are doing, I decide from here.

FreeBSD could make a statement that humans are not computers and therefore we can use existing words for archaic relations between machines, as it has noting to do with relations between human beings.

But the world isn't that rational, and even FreeBSD could have to bend like the reed. As long as it isn't about systemd, it will be only words.


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## Mjölnir (Jul 26, 2020)

FreeBSD is very clear on this topic: Code of Conduct.  If the mainstream usage of language will change, i.e. this is not just fashionable, FreeBSD will likely have pressure to follow.  A buddy of mine is a trans woman.  She's got a Dr. title in linguistics, so she knows what she's talking about.  Her statement is: there is lots of truth in these topics about gender terms & political correctness,  _but_ many _quick shots_ go far beyond their goal and above all, violate and/or ignore etymology & existing grammatics.  E.g. _"carpenter"_ is _neutrum_ in english (?), but _male_ in german.  So when I write _"the carpenter"_ in german it automagically includes female, trans & unspecified carpenters.  But _they_ want me to write "carpenters/fem".  OK I write _"s/he"_.  That's easy and does not violate grammatics.  Worst what I whitnessed was a woman complaining about the term _history:_ _"Why the f* is there a 'his' in this term?! It should be renamed to 'herstory'!"_ My answer: it's etymology is latin or greek...


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## Jose (Jul 26, 2020)

Crivens said:


> I sure hope they don't. It is idiocracy live action, and I'm about fed up with synaptically challenged persons (aka idiots).


That is doubleplus ungood comrade. Good doublespeak is neurodifferent.


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## Crivens (Jul 26, 2020)

Jose said:


> That is doubleplus ungood comrade. Good doublespeak is neurodifferent.


Right you are. Never keep out anyone. Use female forms for bad descriptions, also. Not only highwaymen but also highwaywomen. You tell your kids about Fire_*person*_ Sam and cancel Paw Patrol because of the gender ratio among dogs and the presence of a german sheperd police dog...

Edit: in case you, kind reading entity, did not know: the prophets spoke of it long ago.


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## sidetone (Jul 26, 2020)

There was a skit on a no longer running John Leguizamo show. It might have been House of Buggin. IIRC Leguizamo was dressed like a woman, and he was saying to rename words for gender. It renamed words from "her" to "him", one which was a prefix of a named disease. It's the only one I remember watching as an adolescent.


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## aragats (Jul 26, 2020)

Let's focus on a really big problem: Sun's spectrum is WHITE!


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## mark_j (Jul 26, 2020)

Hakaba said:


> My point is about the movement. Apple follow Google, Microsoft and others.
> But for me, this is the first step of a very dangerous way. The acceptance of crimes is easiest if it is about «not as free as they wanted» poeple than slave.
> But if FreeBSD is the last OS with blacklist or master/slave word in the doc, the OS can be stigmatised (for wrong reasons IMHO).
> That is why I started this thread (and thanks, I share the majority of opinions expressed here)


Blacklist, as others have stated is not based on black as a skin colour. Making it so is, as Crivens says, is  'idiocracy' ad absurdum. (Sorry if my Latin micro-harms any peoples previously conquered by the Roman Empire).

Might I also add this is a highly US-centric issue. They, and perhaps the UK, have experience with only black slavery but history shows us that slavery has existed as long as we've been able to document it, back to ancient Egypt (white slaves), is just one example.
Given this US-centric notion that if it offends us it must offend you, I tend to scoff at it all and ignore these SJW idiots.


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## T-Daemon (Jul 29, 2020)

[base] Revision 363657
					






					svnweb.freebsd.org
				




```
/[base]

Revision 363657
Jump to revision:    
Previous
Author:     emaste
Date:     Wed Jul 29 00:34:24 2020 UTC (3 hours, 28 minutes ago)
Changed paths:     2
Log Message:    

sshd: allow UseBlocklist alias for UseBlacklist

blacklistd has been renamed to blocklistd upstream, and a future
import into FreeBSD will follow that change.  Support the new name
as an alias in config files.

Reviewed by:    bz, delphij
MFC after:    1 week
Sponsored by:    The FreeBSD Foundation
Differential Revision:    https://reviews.freebsd.org/D25865
```


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## Crivens (Jul 29, 2020)

Good job. Allowing an alias is OK, don't you think?


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## mark_j (Jul 29, 2020)

I'm sorry, but this is not a black and white issue. 
The discussion has been blackened, I'm afraid, by nefarious individuals. 

As an aside, the other morning I was whitening my teeth (because I ate blackberries the previous night) when I
noticed a blackhead. I was so dismayed, I thought how on earth will I play blackjack tonight? I mean I could try to whitewash the
entire thing, couldn't I?

The only solution was to blackmail a friend into substituting for me otherwise I would be blackballed

Come to think of it, the bathroom needs painting; a nice soft shade of white should do. Not too dark, mind you.

Oh the dilemma. Oh the inhumanity.


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## T-Daemon (Jul 29, 2020)

Oddly, after reading that revision log, the lyrics of the song "Yellow Flicker Beat" from Lorde came to my mind (I'm not a particular fan of Lorde, but I like that one song). Amazing organ that brain.

"This is the start of how it all ends
They used to shout my name, now they whisper it"









						Lorde – Yellow Flicker Beat
					

Warning: Mockingjay spoilers ahead.  “Yellow Flicker Beat” is the lead single from The Hunger Games: Mockingjay Part 1 soundtrack, which Lorde is curating.  On her Tumblr, Lorde




					genius.com


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## goshanecr (Jul 29, 2020)

I endlessly wish that FreeBSD would remain a reasonable project of reasonable people.


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## Cthulhux (Jul 29, 2020)

Which only honored merits, not feelings.


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## fernandel (Jul 29, 2020)

“Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it”


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## olli@ (Jul 29, 2020)

T-Daemon said:


> https://svnweb.freebsd.org/base?view=revision&revision=363657
> 
> ```
> /[base]
> ...


That last line worries me. If my donations to FreeBSD are used to support that kind of nonsense, I consider not donating anymore. I mean, I could donate my money to charities that help people who _really_ need it.


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## Cthulhux (Jul 29, 2020)

I stopped donating (code) when the CoC was introduced. Why haven't you?


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## jmos (Jul 29, 2020)

Why the hell renaming common and easily understandable terms without reference to the topic?

Because they are used in a *evaluative context*: Good and bad. And because in that context it *triggers* others. If "trigger" doesn't mean anything to you, then you belong to privileged people - and you should be aware that others might feel differently.

I don't see a problem in "blacklist" (black and white f.e. has a also christian reference), but: A change won't hurt me at all! Simple for me, important for others. I don't even have to understand that, no empathy necessary - knowledge about that topic is enough.

When I read the first post I thought "oh god, no - this has nothing to do with each other"; But after some thought…


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## Cthulhux (Jul 29, 2020)

jmos said:


> If "trigger" doesn't mean anything to you, then you belong to privileged people - and you should be aware that others might feel differently.



If the word "blacklist" triggers you, seek professional help. A technical project is the wrong place to seek help.


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## jmos (Jul 29, 2020)

Cthulhux said:


> If the word "blacklist" triggers you, seek professional help. A technical project is the wrong place to seek help.


Please read what I've wrote, then you don't have to make ugly suggestions.


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## goshanecr (Jul 29, 2020)

jmos said:


> I don't see a problem in "blacklist" (black and white f.e. has a also christian reference), but: A change won't hurt me at all! Simple for me, important for others. I don't even have to understand that, no empathy necessary - knowledge about that topic is enough.


Sorry for my english, but problem here is because of me and maybe other users, for who that words are not more than name of color, or established terms like "black\white list", or "Master Boot Record" etc, so:
 I have to start using new terms just because someone made up that they are insulting them. After all, those calm and literate people who know that these terms do not contain any malicious intent. So why knowingly literate people should quickly change something in their work/life/Hobbies, take some unnecessary updates. This is wrong about me, and to infringe on someone, arguing it with the fantasies of third parties... this is wrong. As a result, a long text through a translator


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## mark_j (Jul 29, 2020)

Cthulhux said:


> If the word "blacklist" triggers you, seek professional help. A technical project is the wrong place to seek help.


Yes so true. People should just code & keep their politics out of it.

Unfortunately a few developers are misguided believing a change of nomenclature will solve the world's ills when in fact it just assuages their own guilt. In other words the proponents of this nonsense have the real problem, not all the rest of us.

We should pity them; give them a virtual hug and tell them snowflakes are God's special people.


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## rigoletto@ (Jul 29, 2020)

If this "gender/whatrever neutral" thing is already ridiculous in English language which is rather neutral by _design_, can you imagine how ridiculous it sounds in, for instance, romance languages where, in general, almost every word has gender assigned (masculine or feminine) to it depending on how it is written like, if finished with "a" this is a feminine word? Or even worse, proto-slavic languages, with its cadences, where the whole phrase is modified depending of what and you are talking?


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## olli@ (Jul 29, 2020)

rigoletto@ said:


> If this "gender/whatrever neutral" thing is already ridiculous in English language which is rather neutral by _design_, can you imagine how ridiculous it sounds in, for instance, romance languages where, in general, almost every word has gender assigned (masculine or feminine) to it depending on how it is written like, if finished with "a" this is a feminine word? Or even worse, proto-slavic languages, with its cadences, where the whole phrase is modified depending of what and you are talking?


Yes. The problem is that some people confuse grammatical gender with biological sex (or whatever you may call it). These don’t have anything to do with each other for most nouns that don’t refer to a concrete person.

For example, in German the word “human” is masculine, the word “person” is feminine, and the word “member” is neuter (“der Mensch, die Person, das Mitglied”). But of course, all of these words refer to subjects of any biological sex. There are certain people in Germany who are unable to understand that concept, and who try to change the language.

That black and white thing is somewhat similar. Black and white are just colors that can be used for various things _beside_ color of skin. Changing the language is not going to make anything better.

Newspapers are usually printed black on white. But the text terminals on my X11 desktop screen use “white on black” – does that make me a racist? No, it’s just because my eyes can read the text better that way.

By the way, I think the word “slave” is a different matter, because it clearly refers to slavery. I always found it strange to use it for technical things. For example, in the context of DNS servers (BIND), I always preferred the term “secondary zones” over “slave zones”. On the other hand, the word master is rather harmless, because it also has meanings not related to slavery. So, for example, I don’t see a problem calling one node in a cluster the master node, while the others are ordinary nodes or just nodes, in particular when all of the nodes are equal, and any of them can obtain the master role (in a fail-over scenario, for example).

In German, the word “Meister” (translation of master) is completely harmless and is used in various contexts. Another example: The German word “Führer” is _very_ problematic, while its English translation “leader” is rather harmless.

As you can see, it depends a lot on the language how words are interpreted and perceived. The very same word can be perceived radically different in other languages.


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## olli@ (Jul 29, 2020)

PS: We should try to avoid the words “error”, “failure”, “bug” etc. in FreeBSD’s source code and documentation. That will certainly make the software much better.

(In case you didn’t notice: That was meant to be satirical.)


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## kpedersen (Jul 29, 2020)

mark_j said:


> I was whitening my teeth...
> ate blackberries...
> noticed a blackhead...
> play blackjack...
> ...



You need to seriously reconsider your lifestyle... you raving racist!


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## Crivens (Jul 29, 2020)

goshanecr Read "1984" from the prophet ^h writer George Orwell. Much will be clear then.


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## Mjölnir (Jul 29, 2020)

Cthulhux said:


> I stopped donating (code) when the CoC was introduced. Why haven't you?


What's wrong with the CoC?  After all, it does not promote _newspeak_.


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## Cthulhux (Jul 29, 2020)

mjollnir said:


> What's wrong with the CoC?



One would think that this had been discussed well enough.


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## Mjölnir (Jul 29, 2020)

Cthulhux said:


> One would think that this had been discussed well enough.


Well, if I was aware of that, then I would not ask... I did not search _"What's wrong with FreeBSD CoC"_, though.  Could you be concrete w/o risking to get blamed by the moderator?


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## Cthulhux (Jul 29, 2020)

Here's a lengthy discussion about it:








						Closed - Is the community become fragile?
					

I just saw this in response to FreeBSD's new CoC. Are people really becoming this sensitive to what is supposed to be a highly technical product?




					forums.freebsd.org


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## olli@ (Jul 29, 2020)

Cthulhux said:


> I stopped donating (code) when the CoC was introduced. Why haven't you?


Because the CoC is fine with me.


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## SirDice (Jul 29, 2020)

olli@ said:


> By the way, I think the word “slave” is a different matter, because it clearly refers to slavery.


I never made that connection. For me it conjured up images about BDSM. I'm sure there's some Freudian explanation for my warped views.


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## Mjölnir (Jul 29, 2020)

Cthulhux said:


> Here's a lengthy discussion about it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is a rather lengthy thread.  Until now I read up to the 2nd page, and I did not find any _concrete_ critics on any of the Coc's topics, rather than a vague anxiety & fear about the mere existence of such a collection of general behavioural rules written down.  Reminds me of the attitude of some hardcore _tea party_ followers (or _Reichsbürger_ here in Germany): _anything from "above" is threatening my freedom, don't dare you smart weisenheimers tell me what to do!_
After all it was rightly stated there that much depends on how to handle such CoC in practice.  SirDice shows the right sense of humour... ;p


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## Minbari (Jul 29, 2020)

Well we have solved all bugs (pardon me), all flaws from the OS, we have now the best hardware support and even we have developed drivers for the upcoming hardware, all that remain is to rename words which are "offensive" to some idiots (idiot/ἰδιώτης=greek noun =a private person, individual, a private citizen) who try to rewrite history.
Did FreeBSD Foundation made an inquiry (poll) to see if the term "blocklist" is not offensive to someone? How did they know is not offensive to me and/or others?


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## Hakaba (Jul 29, 2020)

In french, at least, when someone try to learn something without succes, he «blocks».
So, blocklist is an offence, for sure.


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## shkhln (Jul 29, 2020)

mjollnir said:


> I did not find any _concrete_ critics on any of the Coc's topics



Is that a serious question? Because if you start to discuss an X topic in detail, you'll be labeled as an X hater/supporter for the rest of your life.



mjollnir said:


> general behavioural rules written down



They are not general, they are very-very specific; it almost reads like a political statement. If you want to see how general looks like, you can compare our latest CoC with it.

(That is about as much as I'm going to say on the topic.)


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## msplsh (Jul 29, 2020)

shkhln said:


> if you start to discuss an X topic in detail, you'll be labeled as an X hater/supporter for the rest of your life.



It's like your speech has an effect on how people perceive you.  That has to be super annoying when you have an opinion everybody hates, but you want people to like you.


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## shkhln (Jul 29, 2020)

msplsh said:


> That has to be super annoying when you have an opinion everybody hates, but you want people to like you.



_Everyone_ has an opinion someone else hates. (Is that fact too difficult for usians to understand?)


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## Mjölnir (Jul 29, 2020)

shkhln Ok I understand your 1st concern.  On the 2nd: it's six very general topics and the explanation on the 2nd one: *be welcoming*, explicitely includes _political belief_ to be protected and should not exclude anyone from reasons arising thereby.  The other topics mentioned therein are clearly not political, but rather a matter of respect towards others, IMHO.  Of course, experience shows that some people mix that up, until they realize some of their political leaders are either homosexual, or have a black/jewish/whatever ancestor, or like to wear women's clothes in private,... whatever.  And then they find themself in the mentioned cognitive dissonance, and often their solution is to blame such CoC, instead of admitting their view or behaviour is disrespectful or asshat-like.  I'm now on page 3 of that thread and still most I find is very vague anxiety.  It's a very entertaining reading, though


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## shkhln (Jul 29, 2020)

mjollnir said:


> On the 2nd: it's six very general topics and the explanation on the 2nd one: *be welcoming*



This is ridiculous. FreeBSD had at least 3 distinct CoCs. You aren't reading complaints about the latest one, so you don't get to discuss it. You want this revision: https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-...ISO8859-1/htdocs/internal/code-of-conduct.xml. Now, compare it with the current CoC and keep your thoughts to yourself. I'm not really interested in your opinion.


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## msplsh (Jul 29, 2020)

shkhln said:


> _Everyone_ has an opinion someone else hates



I like how you expanded an implicit "you" to "everyone" (which is how it works if you're reading it), but were reductive from "everybody" to "someone," turning it into a banal statement that you don't have to internalize.


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## shkhln (Jul 29, 2020)

msplsh said:


> I like how you expanded an implicit "you" to "everyone" (which is how it works if you're reading it), but were reductive from "everybody" to "someone," turning it into a banal statement that you don't have to internalize.



I don't even understand your "enlightened" word salad this time, so I can't answer you anything. Sorry.


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## msplsh (Jul 29, 2020)

TL;DR: I don't think you read what I wrote (and your response was meaningless).


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## Crivens (Jul 29, 2020)

<Barkeeper asks for last orders before closing time>


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## Mjölnir (Jul 29, 2020)

My last order before the others do theirs: shkhln Well, I refered to the one I found on the offical FreeBSD website, and IMHO it's not ridiculous not to find a very new version in the repository.  Yes, this new version looks & feels very different.  Strikingly, many verbalisations are in negated type.  It feels more restrictive.


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## shkhln (Jul 29, 2020)

It's not new, it's the old version…


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## Crivens (Jul 29, 2020)

Just read the version shkhln linked to and found it .. ahem.. "_problematic_".


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## msplsh (Jul 29, 2020)

Being vague: The only defense against being held responsible.

Please lock this thread already.


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## sidetone (Jul 29, 2020)

mjollnir said:


> This is a rather lengthy thread.  Until now I read up to the 2nd page, and I did not find any _concrete_ critics on any of the Coc's topics, rather than a vague anxiety & fear about the mere existence of such a collection of general behavioural rules written down.  Reminds me of the attitude of some hardcore _tea party_ followers (or _Reichsbürger_ here in Germany): _anything from "above" is threatening my freedom, don't dare you smart weisenheimers tell me what to do!_
> After all it was rightly stated there that much depends on how to handle such CoC in practice.



They pointed to an article that said how people got fired for referring to someone by the gender they were born as. It was likely the guardians who put it into the child's head, they were another gender, which is what should be looked at with concern, rather than someone trying to respect what the person as born as. I understand that, this point is overused. At first glance, the CoC looks simple like: behave and be fair, be courteous. However, it goes overboard.

If someone changes their name to "Ms." Mary, or "Flying Falcon" I'll call them by that name, and treat them with respect as I would to anyone else. Don't say, I must respect a label which I don't understand, however.

The CoC is overcompensating or overdoing it. It's inappropriate and stupid. In this forum, it has no effect, because I'll believe whatever someone says the are. For those in FreeBSD's working environment, it's not good. There's no reason for this.

The example given shouldn't be relevant, but the CoC makes it so, because it gives too much leeway for this specifically.

I'm tired of both sides complaining about blacklist or blocklist, or some song that does sound bad. Why is this used as a rally cry? This CoC contributes to this problem.


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## shkhln (Jul 29, 2020)

msplsh said:


> Being vague: The only defense against being held responsible.



ok


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## Jose (Jul 29, 2020)

Cthulhux said:


> I stopped donating (code) when the CoC was introduced. Why haven't you?


Because I'm not ready to die on that hill. Besides, I'm busy dying on the systemd hill.


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## wolffnx (Jul 29, 2020)

Minbari said:


> "blocklist" is not offensive to someone? How did they know is not offensive to me and/or others?



I dont like the legos, so they had to change it to "not-allowed"


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## Deather (Jul 29, 2020)

I don't see what doing that would mean. Blacklist has nothing to do with BLK


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## ondra_knezour (Jul 29, 2020)

olli@ said:


> That last line worries me.



Applying upstream changes (in code, naming, manual formatting...) seems logical to me. Renaming projects/variables/settings etc. back to previous versions before whatever upstream considered sweet-non-offensive-neutral word today would be IMHO even more ridiculous than all of this Holy Wars to defend poor, weak and offended.


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## mark_j (Jul 30, 2020)

sidetone said:


> They pointed to an article that said how people got fired for referring to someone by the gender they were born as.
> [...snip...]



I think everyone should stop using the term _gender _in English. The language has, on the whole, no grammatical gender unlike other languages. Therefore when talking about biological reproduction, it's *sex *and in English it's either Male or Female. Biologically, anything else is an abnormality and an anomaly.

Oh, and besides, why is sex or gender even brought into, for example, discussing writing drivers for an OS. I mean, seriously? 
Over and Out!


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## Mjölnir (Jul 30, 2020)

I found this cook is acting like the FreeBSD community: trying to do s/th useful, doing it in a sub-optimal way, then trying to fix it & cause even more damage... 
<iframe width="775" height="529" src="



_View: https://www.youtube.com/embed/73ii0WsAmZ8_
" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
chef de cuisine


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## Hakaba (Jul 30, 2020)

mark_j said:


> Therefore when talking about biological reproduction, it's *sex *and in English it's either Male or Female


And about electric plug, is there a male or female usage as in french ?

And now, I see why the subject can not focus in my first attempt. I open it to have a feedback about the movement. But male/female is maybe an insult for transgenre. Maybe «FreeBSD» and «jail» are an insult for poeple in jail ?
Maybe we can not find an end if we start to according some credit in «passive racism» (I do not know how this is called in english).
So, my conviction is :
We can use black/white and master in a project like FreeBSD. We maybe need to remove «slave». But to prevent stigmatisation, we need to explain the choice (and jails is a good example).
I stop posting here because my question is answered and the subject is now too open to find an end.


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## ondra_knezour (Jul 30, 2020)

Hakaba said:


> We maybe need to remove «slave».


As a member of a slavic nation, I would feel really offended if forcefully removed from future discussions


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