# What should be my base OS?



## drhowarddrfine (Nov 4, 2012)

Story - 
I haven't bought a new computer since 2001 cause Windows users keep giving me their systems for free as they "upgrade" with every new OS. However, I haven't gotten anything decent in quite a while and things are starting to fall apart at the seams, Captain! It must be the economy. So, for the first time in quite a while, I'm going to build a desktop system to replace my current web development setup. It will be a god-box-multi-monitor-super-orgasmatron-blinkenlightencraption-in-3D.

The quest-ion -
My very first question on this quest. In another thread a while back, @wblock and @mwatkins mentioned installing Windows on a notebook and then putting FreeBSD in a VM cause then you would have access to all the hardware through Windows. I thought that was an excellent observation but I get hives thinking about buying Windows just for that purpose on this desktop machine so I was wondering if I should be thinking of using Arch/Ubuntu/whatever as the base OS and run FreeBSD in a VM just to have better access to hardware?

EDIT: I want to emphasize that I will be using bleeding edge parts as much as possible but I am not a gamer so I will either use no graphics card at all or try to use one of my son's old Nvidia boards.


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## wblock@ (Nov 4, 2012)

Desktops aren't as touchy.  The power management is not as much of a problem, there are options for video.  I can't think of anything that isn't supported by FreeBSD-9 on this Gigabyte motherboard, although I haven't tested USB 3.0.

You could always try it with FreeBSD first.  If another OS is required, just back up the FreeBSD system and restore to a VM.


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## Deleted member 30996 (Nov 4, 2012)

If your computer is that old I'd be surprised if FreeBSD didn't support all the hardware on it. I've got a Dell PC from that era running FreeBSD 9.0-Release-p3 and it supports all the hardware and runs great on it.


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## drhowarddrfine (Nov 4, 2012)

@wblock - I'm glad to hear that.
@Trihexagonal - This will be for a brand new, not yet purchased PC I will be assembling myself.


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## jb_fvwm2 (Nov 4, 2012)

Whatever you install, chances it may break/downgrade sometime. IMHO FreeBSD surpasses any other OS or distro in an eventual satisfactory outcome... (having survived hard disk crashes almost fully recovered with the freezer method, botched upgrades completed successfully with an FTP duplicate install, a v6 > v9 rsync upgrade, various front-end install/upgrade (GEOM mismatch) failures fixed by UPDATING in /usr/src etc.  

These simple solutions are not to be found elsewhere from what I read daily in other forums, although they take time and some expense. 

If one sticks to one system, and not-so-recent hardware (I'm running a very-many-years old machine and have way newer, cutting-edge ones I decline to upgrade to, the older
one "just works" for anything I put on it...) chances are one's backups could be more
reliable, upgrades more certain, etc... 
Not to mention maybe more inexpensive (maybe) in the long run. (First place I'd look, in
whatever case, is the posts in this forum with the keyword "motherboard"...)


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## PugTsurani (Nov 4, 2012)

I think it depends if you have any software that requires direct access to the hardware, whether it's for speed, functionality, or driver support. For example, the Sirius XM (car) radio required the driver to be loaded before I could use it. The software didn't work in Windows 7 (I tried) and I resorted to running XP Mode in Windows 7 in VirtualBox on Ubuntu. The extension pack allowed USB to be passed through to the guest. It was slow but that didn't matter because it was a one-time deal. Do you have any software or peripherals that will be hindered by running it in a VM and doesn't have an alternative for other OS's? If so, then you'll probably want that OS as your base. If you don't, then it doesn't matter which OS you use as the base. Do you have an existing Windows notebook/laptop that can be used in a pinch?


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## drhowarddrfine (Nov 4, 2012)

My only hardware concerns are the ability to plug any regular thing in, like networking/audio/graphics and have it work. Wireless isn't necessary but I'd like the option of using the best hardware available as with anything.  This isn't work related but it would be neat if it would work with Windows in a VM. I might be getting back into video and audio editing but not sure if that would only be software based or I might get some camera inputs. But that's down the road.

There are plenty of threads here that talk about the problems with various things, though.


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## throAU (Nov 5, 2012)

In all honesty (as much as it disgusts me), if you want the ability to use plug and play video/audio hardware, I'd stick with Windows for the host, and virtualbox for the hypervisor to run FreeBSD and other things in.

Windows 7 is solid if you put it on reliable hardware with well supported drivers, and if it is just for tinkering/testing then FreeBSD isn't going to need direct hardware access for performance.  Running the vast amount of junk windows only hardware out there with Windows directly on the hardware is just less screwing around.

I do this at work with VMware workstation instead of Virtualbox and it works fine.


Yes in theory FreeBSD or Linux or whatever is the better base OS, but it just introduces complications as far as hardware support is concerned - and Windows 7 really isn't that bad.


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## drhowarddrfine (Nov 5, 2012)

throAU said:
			
		

> I do this at work with VMware workstation instead of Virtualbox and it works fine.


Do you prefer VMware?


> and Windows 7 really isn't that bad.


I'm concerned that Windows will just bog things down, more likely to crash stuff and work as a mind of its own. I agree with what you're saying but, until I run into some absolutely need, Windows is always out of the question for any professional development I do.

In fact, now that I typed that, I think I might just buy a separate box should that ever come up.


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## throAU (Nov 6, 2012)

I prefer VMware over Virtualbox because it appears to network boot a LOT faster than Virtualbox.  And I do a lot of network boot stuff for SOE development for our Windows fleet here.

Also, I'm a vSphere admin, Workstation can log into remote ESXi machines, the VM format is compatible, etc.  But if those factors don't apply, Virtualbox is fine.  I'd suggest Virtualbox for open source stuff as Virtualbox itself is mostly open source (and free).

As far as Win7 stability goes - in the 3 years I've run it so far, I can count the number of BSODs or crashes on one hand.  Sure, the number is >0, but the benefit of just being able to plug any random hardware in and get driver support without faffing about is nice.


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## drhowarddrfine (Apr 3, 2013)

I thought I'd update this, somewhat. I bought the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H motherboard with an Intel i7-3770 (without the K) and plugged in FreeBSD 9.1 LiveCD using a flash drive in a USB 3.0 slot. Without making any modifications at all to anything, it booted FreeBSD up right away and dmesg says it recognized all four cores. I was able to ping the internet using the onboard networking and use the built in HD4000 video without any graphics card though I was only in text mode. My wireless keyboard, a Microsoft Sculpt Comfort, works but I didn't get to check my wireless Logitech mouse. The mouse is recognized by the bios so I'm sure that issue is just a setting in FreeBSD.


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## jrm@ (Apr 3, 2013)

Maybe you should line your office walls with tin foil. 

http://news.cnet.com/Researchers-hack-Microsoft-wireless-keyboards/2100-7347_3-6221593.html

To clarify, I'm being facetious since that link is from 2007.  However, if I had a wireless keyboard I would want to be aware of the security details.


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## trh411 (Apr 3, 2013)

drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> I thought I'd update this, somewhat. I bought the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H motherboard with an Intel i7-3770 (without the K) and plugged in FreeBSD 9.1 LiveCD using a flash drive in a USB 3.0 slot. Without making any modifications at all to anything, it booted FreeBSD up right away and dmesg says it recognized all four cores. I was able to ping the internet using the onboard networking and use the built in HD4000 video without any graphics card though I was only in text mode. My wireless keyboard, a Microsoft Sculpt Comfort, works but I didn't get to check my wireless Logitech mouse. The mouse is recognized by the bios so I'm sure that issue is just a setting in FreeBSD.



Thanks for this update. I'm eyeing that same motherboard for a build I'm planning, so it*'*s nice to know everything is supported by FreeBSD. BTW, the Gigabyte specs state that the on-board LAN support is a 1 x Intel and 1 x Atheros Gigabit Ethernet. Have you found both on-board LAN ports to be supported by FreeBSD?


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## Beeblebrox (Apr 3, 2013)

@trh411: Depending on the branch you are tacking (8 / 9 / Current), have a look at
http://www.freebsd.org/relnotes/CURRENT/hardware/
For a list of hardware support (and yes, if_alc is supported).


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## drhowarddrfine (Apr 3, 2013)

trh411 said:
			
		

> the Gigabyte specs state that the on-board LAN support is a 1 x Intel and 1 x Atheros Gigabit Ethernet. Have you found both on-board LAN ports to be supported by FreeBSD?


Not sure yet cause I confused myself. I first plugged into the Atheros port and it didn't work. I plugged into the Intel port but that's when I realized I forgot to enable dhcp. The intel port came right up but I haven't gone back to check the other one yet. I'll do that later today.


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## drhowarddrfine (Apr 3, 2013)

jrm said:
			
		

> To clarify, I'm being facetious since that link is from 2007.  However, if I had a wireless keyboard I would want to be aware of the security details.


Well that's interesting. I bought this keyboard new so I don't know if they've made any changes to the software. The office I keep this at sits one block from Edward Jones, two blocks from Charter Communications, three blocks from Scottrade and across the street from ATT's fibre hub. 

I'm probably screwed.


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## trh411 (Apr 3, 2013)

Beeblebrox said:
			
		

> @trh411: Depending on the branch you are tacking (8 / 9 / Current), have a look at
> http://www.freebsd.org/relnotes/CURRENT/hardware/
> For a list of hardware support (and yes, if_alc is supported).



I am aware of that list, but in this case the Gigabyte web site did not specify the chipset used in either the Intel or Atheros Gigabit adapters. First hand experience trumps hardware compatability lists.

Also, there was a recent thread on the Atheros AR8161, which is not on the hardware compatability list and that does not appear to be supported by FreeBSD. I'm concerned this might be the chipset used on the referenced Gigabyte motherboard.


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## drhowarddrfine (Apr 4, 2013)

The only network reported by `dmesg` is em0 which is the Intel chip. I looked in the box to see if I could see the chip number for the Atheros but it's either blacked out or buried under something. Trying [cmd=]dhclient em1[/cmd] just says there is no driver so I don't know if it's possible to install a driver for it. I have not done much Googling to see what the exact part number for the Atheros is on this board.


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## tingo (Apr 4, 2013)

@drhowarddrfine: does `# pciconf -lv` report both network cards?


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## drhowarddrfine (Apr 5, 2013)

It does. 


```
vendor = 'Atheros Communications'
class = network
subclass = ethernet
ahci1@pci0:6:0:0: class=0x010601 card=0xb0001458 chip=0x91721b4b rev=0x11 hdr=0x00
```


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## TiberiusDuval (Apr 5, 2013)

Depending on hardware, PC-BSD works for me straight on hardware without any virtualisation, though I have old desktop, so it may be better supported than some bleeding edge hardware. On other hand if you really do not want to tweak with Linux and its eccentricities, some easygoing distro maybe just right choice. One can say many things about Ubuntu, but I recommend it, if you do not like Unity (Who does?) choose some other desktop environment. In most cases it just works. Also good old Debian might be considered, I'm currently tempted to change my Linux use from Mint to Debian.


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## drhowarddrfine (Apr 6, 2013)

I just got working a nVidia geforce 6800-gt graphics card. It has two DVI outputs so I hooked it up two monitors and it works. Now I'm zipping around happily in twm 

I'm painting the bedrooms in my house so I only get to play with this between moments of frustration and exhaustion.


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