# FreshPorts



## Lars Skogstad (Oct 6, 2018)

Why does it look like FreshPorts.org is stuck in 94' ? 

Would be nice to see it have some kind of same layout as freebsd.org forum design.
Im aware that its proably so its easy to load from lots of browsers and so on, but its not very appealing.
Not sure if its the same people hosting the site or not.

Would be nice though =)


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## kpa (Oct 6, 2018)

Freshports is not funded nor operated by the FreeBSD foundation. It's a private project of Dan Langille. Send your complaints about the layout of his site to him personally.


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 6, 2018)

affirmative!


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## tingo (Oct 6, 2018)

Functionality over design - every day. The young people today seems to have an obsession with shiny things.


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## rigoletto@ (Oct 6, 2018)

tingo said:


> Functionality over design - every day. The young people today seems to have an obsession with shiny things.



Shiny things are great, except when people use things like node.js and make everything super slow.

At this point I would be really happy if Swift actually get a lot of traction in the web design _métier_, or at least something like Kitura for the lazy ones.


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 6, 2018)

tingo said:


> Functionality over design - every day. The young people today seems to have an obsession with shiny things.


There's a difference between a normal okay design and a 1990ish design with awful choice of color.
I get the functionality but it doesnt need to look like timetravel back to 94' 

This forum has a nice layout with a good color combination, something like that colorscheme wouldn't be hard to add.


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## rigoletto@ (Oct 6, 2018)

Lars Skogstad 

If you are good in web development, you could contact them and offer to write a new web site. This is how many things advance in here.

HERE you can get the official Project artwork stuff.


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 6, 2018)

I like how I seem like a bad guy for pointing out that its an outdated design.
Youre mentioning shiny things, im not suggestions that it looks a a futuristic space-theme. 
Would just look better with other colors and a more tidy layout. 
Maybe a more modern logo would suit the site better.
I might do that.


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## ralphbsz (Oct 6, 2018)

Yes, you are a bad guy.  Because you are wasting everyone's time talking about design.  *BSD is about functionality, not about being pretty.

There is exactly one question one needs to discuss about web design: Whether to use emacs or vi to edit the plain HTML source code.  Anything that is more complicated than plain HTML (preferably without frames, they are too complex, and don't render well on all browsers) in 7-bit US-ASCII is dangerous and pointless and a waste of good neurons that could have been doing something productive.

OK, the two paragraphs above are an exaggeration.  But they are not pure sarcasm, just a very exaggerated message.  Seriously, as long as the fresh ports web site is easy to use, fast to load, and contains up-to-date content, I'm happy.  For example, the correct color choice is to leave the colors to the browser default, so users can adjust their preferences.  This is particularly important for sight-impaired users.


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## rigoletto@ (Oct 6, 2018)

Lars Skogstad

If you get in this work don't get suprised if you hear something a long lines with:

"Oh, great! That is something I was willing to do since I while, but be aware the new site should be written in C."


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 6, 2018)

So why is this forum looking pretty? I mean its all about functionality.
Not sure if I am wasting your time if you have the time to answer in Off-topic section of the forum.

Not sure what you are talking about, Im thinking about plain HTML, not something super special.  HTML+CSS.

Its a bit exaggeration indeed. Im just asking why it cant look good and be functional, nothing wrong in updating a design.
Wouldnt be any slower with what I have in mind, just tweaking CSS and making a bit more modern gif/jpg and a good color scheme.
Im figuring out something now and I will send a suggestion over to the them.
Currently working on it 

And yes of course functionality and speed is the main objective of the site, im not arguing about that. It just looks outdated.
Even if FreeBSD is meant to be a stable server OS doesnt mean it have to look like its ancient.


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## recluce (Oct 6, 2018)

Freshports is very useful and works as it should. Design is really not important beyond that, considering the purpose of the site.

Lately, every new site design I see appears to reduce functionality or usability. Just like every new version of the Gnome desktop.


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## rigoletto@ (Oct 6, 2018)

Lars Skogstad said:


> So why is this forum looking pretty? I mean its all about functionality.



HERE.



Lars Skogstad said:


> Im just asking why it cant look good and be functional, nothing wrong in updating a design.



Nobody is against it really, but Freshports do a near fundamental service to the community and the _interwebs_ are full of garbage designed websites.

I mean, if that was drhowarddrfine telling us: "I will design a new Freshports website", nobody would ever think about criticize him because we all know him, and know he really know what and how it should be done.


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 6, 2018)

Again, I dont see why it should reduce functionality.

I was purely thinking of a rebranding of logo, maybe tweak the CSS settings so it looks fresher. Update the .gif icons for.
Get rid of the blue coloured links and the "purple" text below.

I think this forum looks excellent, the colors here are exactly what it should look like to be honest.
Im thinking something like this, using the brand colors so. blue/red is awful to look at to be honest. black/red , 
black/grey/white is a much better combination.

Just tweak it to a certain newer standard, I dont want any new features or lots of heavy sized images or frames or frames within frames or weird table structure for the html.


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## Deleted member 30996 (Oct 7, 2018)

My site on Building A FreeBSD Desktop From Scratch uses only valid XHTML and CSS, official FreeBSD colors, scales down to size properly with the screen and I know before you look you're not going to like it.

No dancing baloney.


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 7, 2018)

Trihexagonal said:


> My site on Building A FreeBSD Desktop From Scratch uses only valid XHTML and CSS, official FreeBSD colors, scales down to size properly with the screen and I know before you look you're not going to like it.
> No dancing baloney.



Readable and colors are good so no problem there.

im trying out different stuff right now. just figuring out some colors.

Going to try and make a good site vitt valid XHTML, CSS, FreeBSD colors, good sizing and a newer look.

Not sure about font though, might be okay to stick with the default ones in there.

Montserrat and Roboto Sans would look very good, but not sure how it would be handled by all visitors that just want to search packages from lowres and so on..


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## scottro (Oct 7, 2018)

I had a friend (non technical) see my website and say, you need a designer. I said, nope, the idea is that it's easily readable with text based web clients so that, for example, if you've installed Linux or BSD and need to figure out how to do X, you can install w3m and see what you need, easily.  It's done in plain html, no php, no nothing.  And though it's now getting outdated in content because I have less time and energy, it works for me.

I doubt Dan's getting paid, and does the site do what it's supposed to, show the ports, and, probably more important to many FreeBSD users, especially on servers, make it easy to view and use without a GUI?
In that case, it serves its purpose.  

The web is much slower now, much easier to hack sites, and there's no benefit gained, save to advertisers and others who put in unwanted content.  All for looks.


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## drhowarddrfine (Oct 7, 2018)

Lars Skogstad said:


> Going to try and make a good site vitt valid XHTML


Unless you are retrieving the data as XML and need to display that XML in a web page, you have no need for XHTML and shouldn't use it. But you don't have control of the data so you don't get to choose.


Lars Skogstad said:


> Not sure about font though, might be okay to stick with the default ones in there.


Not a bad choice.


Lars Skogstad said:


> Montserrat and Roboto Sans would look very good, but not sure how it would be handled by all visitors that just want to search packages from lowres and so on..


Not to mention it would slow the download and, potentially, cause font display issues.

Freshports uses tables for layout, a definite faux pas today, and I question the elements he uses for the content, such as <blockquote>. FreeBSD.org has similar issues in that the structure of the HTML document is pretty awful.


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## shkhln (Oct 7, 2018)

Lars Skogstad said:


> Why does it look like FreshPorts.org is stuck in 94'


Well, it _is_ stuck in the late 90s, I mean check the copyright notices. My guess is that separating site layout from php code (in order to be able to make any design changes) would be too much hassle for the owner.

And, yes, we don't decide here how that site should look, there is no point in that discussion.


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## Datapanic (Oct 7, 2018)

Freshports should not change just for cosmetic reasons.  Its service is well appreciated just as it is.


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## sidetone (Oct 7, 2018)

The only thing I would like to see improved on FreshPorts is the location, layout and size of the search box, especially on mobile. But I can use it fine as it is. Typically, entry boxes on responsive designs are the most difficult to lay out.


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 7, 2018)

okay, lets leave it as it is


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## Deleted member 30996 (Oct 7, 2018)

Lars Skogstad said:


> Not sure about font though, might be okay to stick with the default ones in there.
> 
> Montserrat and Roboto Sans would look very good, but not sure how it would be handled by all visitors that just want to search packages from lowres and so on..



I went with this font selection because it's such a wall of text. It spaced out the letters a lttle more and makes it easier to read:

```
p {
font-family : sans-serif, serif, tahoma;
color : #000000;
}
```

Design isn't my strong suit. If I was using frames I could base a design on that and do more with it.


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 7, 2018)

Trihexagonal said:


> I went with this font selection because it's such a wall of text. It spaced out the letters a lttle more and makes it easier to read:
> 
> ```
> p {
> ...




You could add more tables and distinguish them more from each other, but I think its okay for tutorials. 
The colors are fine and its easy to understand, thats my opinion. 
Like you have here so you have a Code Table with the coding inside so its easier to read. Would be nice


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## rigoletto@ (Oct 7, 2018)

Btw, Gentoo now have a nice packages page (which is a hylarious name since they don't distribute packages).  

drhowarddrfine do you know if that is some pre-built product? Just curious...


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## shkhln (Oct 7, 2018)

Rigoletto said:


> Gentoo now have a nice packages page



It's a Rails application: https://gitweb.gentoo.org/sites/packages.git/tree/.


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## Deleted member 48958 (Oct 7, 2018)

IMO freshports web site designed VERY WELL,
there is nothing redundant, it is very usable and handy,
moreover, it is possible to use it even with console web browsers,
freshports in www/w3m-img —





so IMO, no "shiny things" are required,
because freshports is not an entertainment web site,
and because these things doesn't make anything
more usable than it is without that things,
moreover, often such "shiny things"
are distracting and/or annoying.


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## kpa (Oct 7, 2018)

I'm overall happy with it, especially the way it displays the results and what information is included. The initial search box use some improvement though, now it's just little textbox on the right side and doesn't really draw attention on the first glance.


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## shkhln (Oct 7, 2018)

ILUXA said:


> IMO freshports web site designed VERY WELL,



Meh, it's totally possible to be usable without being this ugly. See for example https://www.metafilter.com/ or https://www.mobygames.com/. Both are about as old as Freshports.


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## Deleted member 48958 (Oct 7, 2018)

It's not "ugly" IMO, it's just practical,
moreover, it is lightweight and pretty clean.


shkhln said:


> https://www.metafilter.com/ or https://www.mobygames.com/. Both are about as old as Freshports.


Both websites are entertainment websites,
freshports is a technical one, so it makes sense.


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## shkhln (Oct 7, 2018)

ILUXA said:


> Both websites are entertainment websites,
> freshports.org is a technical one, so it makes sense.



MobyGames is a game _database_, that's exactly the same type of UI functionality: search, faceted search, displaying entries, displaying updates.


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 7, 2018)

Rigoletto said:


> Btw, Gentoo now have a nice packages page (which is a hylarious name since they don't distribute packages).
> 
> drhowarddrfine do you know if that is some pre-built product? Just curious...



The Gentoo didnt look too bad, at least a bit more modern.


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## Deleted member 48958 (Oct 7, 2018)

In my opinion, it is very sad what's happening with web design these days,
almost all websites are trying to mimicate some kind of wordpress design,
with that moving headers, another elements and other creepy, mobile oriented stuff... 
Many CMS-s and forum engines are mostly mobile oriented for now, like Xenforo, for example.
I don't know why this happened (probably because of these shitty sensor phones),
but it is really sucks, because all that shiny and annoying ugliness is not the only one
possible way of design for sure, moreover, it's not even nice or handy in most cases,
it is really possible to make website usable on mobile phones, with that "adaptive" design,
without losing anything on desktop machines, with that paranoid headers,
that follows you everywhere, сreepy moving design elements, etc.


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## drhowarddrfine (Oct 7, 2018)

There are lots of issues with freshports for readability and usability, not to mention it has 741 HTML errors and warnings. A lot of that comes from using obsolete HTML. The font size is bad. You can see large gaps of white space on large screens. It's unviewable on mobile...etc. But he's providing a free service on his own time and money so one can't complain. 


Trihexagonal said:


> I went with this font selection because it's such a wall of text.


That CSS is saying, "If your browser has a sans-serif font, use that. Otherwise use a sans font if you have it. Otherwise use Tahoma." But all browsers have a serif and sans serif font so that property setting won't do anything but set it to sans-serif. My advice would be to just set it to sans serif or serif so the user will view it in their operating systems native font and leave it at that.


Rigoletto said:


> @drhowarddrfine do you know if that is some pre-built product?


I don't know what you are referring to.


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## drhowarddrfine (Oct 7, 2018)

ILUXA said:


> almost all websites are trying to mimicate some kind of wordpress design


Probably cause it is a wordpress page. It's relatively easy for some high school kid to create a site in wordpress and get fifty bucks from some unsuspecting small business or his Dad who needs a web site for a bigger company. Then they are so proud of their site which is now subject to 80% of all online attacks and entry.


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## Deleted member 48958 (Oct 7, 2018)

drhowarddrfine said:


> Probably cause it is a wordpress page. It's relatively easy for some high school kid to create a site in wordpress and get fifty bucks from some unsuspecting small business or his Dad who needs a web site for a bigger company. Then they are so proud of their site which is now subject to 80% of all online attacks and entry.


IMO, it is disgusting, what guys from WordPress did, they've gave to "average" users chance to use something,
without learning nothing, so what we're seeing now, it is the result of those kids work: popular homemade
shiny shit, without considering any usability aspects. What they're selling now, is that, what is popular now. Popular CMS-s and its popular themes are like cheap pop music, it is ugly, disgusting, but most people are happy with it, it is regular consumer psychology. Like Windows, eg, it is full of shit, but about 90% of users are using it, while most of them even know that this OS sucks hard and have no doubt about this fact, but they just don't want to leave their comfort zone. It'll be very sad, if what happened with the OS market, will happen with the internet. There's only hope for conscious people, which IMO are not pop music fans mostly, or fanboys of any other popular advertised "fashion" things, which are dictated by mass user's purchasing power. Also IMO mobile web surfing should be only as emergency way to browse the internet, but not as main for sure, so it is idiocy to develop websites which are more usable on mobile phones, than on the desktop. I've even saw people who stopped using their laptops and started to use their phones for everything...  No doubt that often new phone is more usable than a new windows machine, but this "trend" is a little bit scary and has many side effects.


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## ucomp (Oct 7, 2018)

shkhln said:


> It's a Rails application: https://gitweb.gentoo.org/sites/packages.git/tree/.


bootstrap as frontend :

```
....
 <title>Gentoo Packages</title>
...
<script src="https://assets.gentoo.org/tyrian/bootstrap.min.js"></script>
...
```


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## ronaldlees (Oct 7, 2018)

recluce said:


> Freshports is very useful and works as it should. Design is really not important beyond that, considering the purpose of the site.
> 
> Lately, every new site design I see appears to reduce functionality or usability. Just like every new version of the Gnome desktop.



They're trying to make everything work as expected for cell/smart phone apps.  I think it's silly, and it seems much better to use smart phone apps on smart phones and info-intensive apps on the traditional hardware.  Otherwise, I think I'd have just wasted money on this big monitor.


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## ucomp (Oct 7, 2018)

ronaldlees said:


> ..... I think it's silly.......


1 example where it were NOT silly to offer a responsive web-frontend::
Im`standing in front of my FreeBSD-Server and looking for information on adminstrative tasks from my SmartPhone, which is in my hand .
In practice I take a smartphone-photo of the information from my desktop screen and go back to the other room where my server is  
Webdesign is overrated, you're right - but otherwise from the technical view there's no reason why not using a responsive webdesign.
It´s no problem to separate the business logic from the frontend


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## drhowarddrfine (Oct 7, 2018)

ronaldlees said:


> They're trying to make everything work as expected for cell/smart phone apps. I think it's silly


Google announced, a few months ago, that the number of searches using mobile has surpassed desktop usage. That does not mean people will continue on the phone, and other research shows people will bookmark or email a link for later use on their desktop. The only time I do serious reading on my phone is when I'm killing time or on a "need to know right now" basis. In both cases, I'm grateful for the ability to read on my phone.

The practical advise given for web development is to simply start with a layout for a small phone and add on as the screen size gets bigger. It works out really well in most cases and knowing you can't fit everything in a 320px wide screen can be refreshing and daunting at the same time.


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## rigoletto@ (Oct 7, 2018)

drhowarddrfine said:


> I don't know what you are referring to.



About THIS website. If that is a template or something like that.


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## drhowarddrfine (Oct 7, 2018)

They use bootstrap which is a popular front end library


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## recluce (Oct 7, 2018)

ILUXA said:


> IMO freshports web site designed VERY WELL,
> there is nothing redundant, it is very usable and handy,
> moreover, it is possible to use it even with console web browsers,
> freshports in www/w3m-img —



That to me is more important than bling-bling. It means that I can quickly look up information when in front of a server that does not have a GUI / X11 installed.

Design Principle #1 is "form follows function", so freshports is as it should be.


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 7, 2018)

Not sure why people compare wordpress and "shiny" in same sentences all over.
It doesnt need to be "bling bling", it can still remain its functional layout. HTML + CSS are quite advanced.
You have scripts that checks if you are on a mobile or a tablet or which OS, and if nothing fits it goes to "default".
Also I think its much more easy to read on other sites that looks a bit better with better seperation and fonts.
I also dont fancy the search bar on the right side of my browser, if we were talking functionality all menus should be integrated properly into a table.
But its okay im not hating on anyone, starting to regret why I posted this, but its off-topic so who cares.


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## recluce (Oct 7, 2018)

Lars Skogstad said:


> Not sure why people compare wordpress and "shiny" in same sentences all over.
> It doesnt need to be "bling bling", it can still remain its functional layout. HTML + CSS are quite advanced.
> You have scripts that checks if you are on a mobile or a tablet or which OS, and if nothing fits it goes to "default".
> Also I think its much more easy to read on other sites that looks a bit better with better seperation and fonts.
> ...



This has nothing to do with hate, unless you bring it yourself.

Current design works in any web browser, even console based. Which means a clear advantage to an admin in front of a GUI-less server, needing some info about a port. That meets the "form follows function" design directive.

If a new design breaks that functionality, it is indeed "bling bling".


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 7, 2018)

Why would it break functionality? Where does this come from? Why would it? Thats my question.

Oh and the gentoo packages looked better on my phone than freshports, while we're mentioning it.


Edit:
 Oh, and im not trying to hate on anything. I just think its about time it should get a newer look.  
Not sure why other sites stay ahead with proper design with a newer look (not shiny, no) and still keep their functionality,


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## sidetone (Oct 7, 2018)

Lars Skogstad said:


> Not sure why people compare wordpress and "shiny" in same sentences all over.
> It doesnt need to be "bling bling", it can still remain its functional layout. HTML + CSS are quite advanced.
> ...
> starting to regret why I posted this, but its off-topic so who cares.


It's as if discussions often spin off about non-essential details or matters.


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## recluce (Oct 7, 2018)

Lars Skogstad said:


> Why would it break functionality? Where does this come from? Why would it? Thats my question.
> 
> Oh and the gentoo packages looked better on my phone than freshports, while we're mentioning it.
> 
> ...



Your new design would work on a purely text-based browser that has no graphics available to it? That would be a huge surprise, as basically no newly designed website does. I am *not *talking about phones or tablets.


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 7, 2018)

Im not complaining, think this looks readable?  Or how text'ish do you want it to be.
As I said earlier, there are ways of making websites so it differences between browsers you are using.

Thats why I dont understand why it needs to look old.
Not to compare to much but seems like linux websites looks a bit more well designed. I know its an independent website from FreeBSD but most people use Freshports so you kind of associate it with being a "Part of FreeBSD"

If you are new to FreeBSD and you visit Freshports you are probably thinking "what is this old crap, are they stuck in time" or "wow, these people are focusing so much on good content so they dont have time updating their site"


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## sidetone (Oct 7, 2018)

Lars Skogstad said:


> View attachment 5409
> 
> Im not complaining, think this looks readable?  Or how text'ish do you want it to be.
> As I said earlier, there are ways of making websites so it differences between browsers you are using.
> ...


Everything looks like that on a console browser, as far as I'm concerned. I realize you're saying, it could be better in terms of the console layout too.


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## recluce (Oct 7, 2018)

Lars Skogstad said:


> Im not complaining, think this looks readable?  Or how text'ish do you want it to be.
> As I said earlier, there are ways of making websites so it differences between browsers you are using.
> 
> Thats why I dont understand why it needs to look old.
> ...



Look at post #27, Freshports site looks a lot better.

But I understand now that there is no reasoning with you. "Old crap" for "functional, yet simple". This ends all discussion for me as you just disqualified yourself. Have a nice life.


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 7, 2018)

Its totally fine, its not my webpage. I just think that it could look better  but not over functionality, no. I totally agree on that part.
I know its not the same area, but when it comes to color etc, I think this forum looks great. Not that im using this in console though


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## drhowarddrfine (Oct 7, 2018)

recluce said:


> Your new design would work on a purely text-based browser that has no graphics available to it? That would be a huge surprise


Freshports does so that should be no surprise.


recluce said:


> basically no newly designed website does


As much as possible, we pay no attention to graphics during the building of a new site. The HTML guy gets a copy of the design from the graphics guy and builds from that but often doesn't even pay attention to graphics at all, initially. HTML describes the structure of the document just like when you did outlines in school when you learned to write papers. It also sets up all your links and buttons. None of that needs graphics to work. That should also tell you just how important the initial HTML writeup is.


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 7, 2018)

recluce said:


> Look at post #27, Freshports site looks a lot better.
> But I understand now that there is no reasoning with you. "Old crap" for "functional, yet simple". This ends all discussion for me as you just disqualified yourself. Have a nice life.



Sometimes its hard to grasp the fact that thing can be done different, we see it all the time with elder people not understand a cellphone and so on. You might be a part of that generation.
You can have your opinion that I disqualified myself, that's okay. The good old "have a nice life" seems a bit harsh. Its an off-topic discussion.

You asked if its functional I gave you some screenshots, doesnt it look functional? You are having an opinion that its not possible to make it functional yet look modern which is quite wrong.
Why would it be impossible? Im not following.  And im trying to have a nice life.


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## drhowarddrfine (Oct 7, 2018)

Lars Skogstad said:


> Thats why I dont understand why it needs to look old.


He's not making it look old. He's just using standard HTML with little to no styling. The elements are just falling where they do using the default styling, though I didn't look but I think he might be doing some minimal amount.


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## fernandel (Oct 7, 2018)

recluce said:


> Look at post #27, Freshports site looks a lot better.
> 
> But I understand now that there is no reasoning with you. "Old crap" for "functional, yet simple". This ends all discussion for me as you just disqualified yourself. Have a nice life.


I am running lynx on openbox and it is a screenshot.


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 7, 2018)

While we're at it. Off-Topic..

- Why isn't Freshports a part of the FreeBSD main site?


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 7, 2018)

fernandel said:


> I am running lynx on openbox and it is a screenshot.
> View attachment 5411


Not sure if you liked that or not  
But I think many sites are or at least can be functional.  

I think freshports looks a bit outdated, logo as well on the top and weird font sizes on top right side and so on. Might just need a clean up ++


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## drhowarddrfine (Oct 7, 2018)

Lars Skogstad said:


> While we're at it. Off-Topic..
> 
> - Why isn't Freshports a part of the FreeBSD main site?


It's not owned or operated by FreeBSD.


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## Datapanic (Oct 7, 2018)

Next thing you know, someone is going to want pretty man pages...


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## Lars Skogstad (Oct 7, 2018)

Datapanic said:


> Next thing you know, someone is going to want pretty man pages...


doubt it   man is man


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## rigoletto@ (Oct 7, 2018)

Ironically the 'Create account' page is in maintainance since a while. ^^


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## darkoverlordofdata (Feb 18, 2020)

Face it - freshports is broken. Lars is right - the web site is hard to read, the search functionality doesn't work well, and much of the content is obsolete. I've stopped using freshports, I have more success installing directly from tarball using the authors instructions. This is the 'functionality' you defend? 

This whole thread points out what is wrong with this forum. Someone has an idea to improve somethig, and you shoot it down because you don't like change. Someone else asks for help and gets derided.

Y'all sound like a bunch of luddites. Do you also protest against velcro?


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## Sevendogsbsd (Feb 18, 2020)

FYI, thread is 2 years old and I only protest velcro on shoes   . On a more serious note, I use fresh ports all the time, but only when my FreeBSD box is off and I need to reference a port's location or info on it. Sure, the site is ugly but who cares? The web isn't about pretty, it's about information, to me anyway.


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## drhowarddrfine (Feb 18, 2020)

darkoverlordofdata said:


> Face it - freshports is broken.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## shkhln (Feb 18, 2020)

darkoverlordofdata said:


> I've stopped using freshports, I have more success installing directly from tarball using the authors instructions.



Tarballs? Just because you don't like a third party website? If that isn't trolling, I don't know what is.


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## Phishfry (Feb 18, 2020)

darkoverlordofdata said:


> much of the content is obsolete.


You must be using a different site than me.
Freshports is where I go to see all the releases of a program and the programs dependencies.

Using tarballs is just plain wrong and unsecure. With that method you have to go to each authors site to upgrade for each program.
Using our pkg system you can upgrade all your programs and even do a security audit for vulnerabilities.
Tarballs from the author means you have no way of knowing what you installed on your computer. No central accounting system.


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## kpedersen (Feb 18, 2020)

Phishfry said:


> Tarballs from the author means you have no way of knowing what you installed on your computer. No central accounting system.



If FreeBSD had unlimited resources and porters to ensure that the latest distfile is correct then yes, however often a porter will just bump the version number and do a test compile and run. Unfortunately there is no guarantee that the distfile doesn't contain dodgy spyware code. It is not their fault; many people do not have time to audit code (for free).

Directly downloading the tarball from an authors site would be really powerful in terms of a decentralised system. Unfortunately very few people write code in a portable way and the following classic instructions are basically a joke.


```
./configure
make
make install
```

There are often many patches for FreeBSD to fix Linuxisms but interestingly there are many patches for Linux to fix "Distroisms" too and there always have been.

Ports are the closest we can get to a decentralized system because we still download the distfiles from the authors site but then fill it with patches 

I don't really like centralised Linux package managers; technically I don't see it as much different from DRM. I feel that a UNIX-like OS designed to be offline could be of great interest. Currently I just grab the 80+gig repo every 6 months and be done with it but that is not really that scalable.


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## Phishfry (Feb 18, 2020)

darkoverlordofdata said:


> much of the content is obsolete


Maybe you meant that the ports tree has many obsolete ports.
This is not a problem of FreshPorts but our ports tree in general.
FreshPorts is nothing more than a card catalog at the library.
If the books are obsolete it is not the card catalogs fault.


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## drhowarddrfine (Feb 19, 2020)

Having and listing obsolete ports is a service. How many times have people asked on this forum for such thing on their older systems. And how many times do people come on here and ask, "Where did XXX go?". Freshports is a source for that information.

I have a feeling this thread is on a roll over a troll's comments.


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## sidetone (Feb 19, 2020)

I don't understand why there was an accusation of arguing. And why it was brought up 2 years later. For many things, that's fine to bring something up 2 years or more later, but not to make a big deal out of nothing, or to stir up controversy where there was none. Sounds like a Linux fan.


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## Sevendogsbsd (Feb 19, 2020)

Or troll as drhowarddrfine put it - I always miss those...


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## SirDice (Feb 19, 2020)

As mentioned in post #2, freshports is dvl@ 's (yes, he's on here too) personal project (https://www.freshports.org/authors.php).

If you (not directed at anyone in particular) think you can do better you're more than welcome to set up your own website.


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## Hakaba (Feb 19, 2020)

I have a little question.
Freshport find all information from /usr/ports or there is an another data source ? (I am just curious, I am happy with Freshport, even if improvements provavly can be done)


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## SirDice (Feb 20, 2020)

Hakaba said:


> Freshport find all information from /usr/ports or there is an another data source


As far as I know it's mostly from the ports tree itself (including the subversion logs from it) and some information from VuXML (pkg-audit(8)).


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## dvl@ (Jan 2, 2021)

I stumbled across this post when searching for something entirely unrelated. I was completely unaware of it.  It has been an entertaining read to see the extreme views of a 20+ year old website.

Happy to take patches for this. Happy to provide access to development environments for your use.

This has been provided in the past but no final work came out of it. They got logged in, started working, but no conclusions.


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## wolffnx (Jan 2, 2021)

allways the old are ugly and uselless, even if it work!!
I think they site need more effects… lights..new icons..or just like the interface of new firefox..android… 

just for fun..look into rammstein.com
is that enough modern?


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## Crivens (Jan 2, 2021)

No. If it has no unicorns farting rainbows, it is unacceptable. 
Seriously, if it aint broken, don't fix it. Freshports is good, leave it alone.


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## Emrion (Jan 2, 2021)

Keep this good work, Dan. Thanks, really.


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## a6h (Jan 2, 2021)

dvl@ :

I have to read the entire thread once again, but I have a point about Freshports:
The Freshports UI/UX is nice, usable and vintage. I like it. Please don't change it.
There's a lot of external pressure to modernise (whatever that means!) websites.
People love to modernise everything. I don't know why, and it looks like a trend.

Anyway, Retro rocks!


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## scottro (Jan 2, 2021)

Site looks fine, Dan. And thanks for keeping it up all these years, and keeping it usable without a GUI.


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## a6h (Jan 2, 2021)

I've read the entire thread. I found four interesting quotes, which I agree with them, and they summarise my favourite approach, regarding web design:


tingo said:


> The young people today seems to have an obsession with shiny things.





ralphbsz said:


> There is exactly one question one needs to discuss about web design: Whether to use emacs or vi to edit the plain HTML source code.





ILUXA said:


> it is possible to use it even with console web browsers [...] IMO, no "shiny things" are required, because freshports is not an entertainment web site,





Sevendogsbsd said:


> The web isn't about pretty, it's about information, to me anyway.


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## Datapanic (Jan 3, 2021)

When I want to find out what's going on with a port, the first place I go to is freshports.  It's the FreeBSD source of information about any port and I greatly appreciate it!


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## grahamperrin@ (Jun 15, 2021)

I. Like. It.


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## Deleted member 30996 (Jun 15, 2021)

Crivens said:


> No. If it has no unicorns farting rainbows, it is unacceptable.



Cheer up. It has a rainbow border of sorts I never noticed before.






Not that I'm complaining:









						pkg version -R as non-root?
					

Dear forum,  What I would like to achieve: Allow a non-root user to see if there are upgradable packages (without using sudo) on a remote repository. Of course, the actual upgrade would need root.  From my point of view: Checking local version numbers against remote version numbers should not...




					forums.freebsd.org


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## dvl@ (Jun 15, 2021)

That's a fantastic screen shot.


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## grahamperrin@ (Jun 15, 2021)

Just one complaint: my web browser seems to have ceased showing the entire background before any foreground content appears. I can't find an explanation in the code, so I guess that my browser getting _better_ has reduced the _fun_.

Edit: better now. Thank you, Escape key …


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## Deleted member 30996 (Jun 15, 2021)

dvl@ said:


> That's a fantastic screen shot.


Feel free to use it as you see fit if it will help promote your site.

I've used your site many times and have a FreeBSD related site of my own.


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## dvl@ (Jun 16, 2021)

dvl@ said:


> I stumbled across this post when searching for something entirely unrelated. I was completely unaware of it.  It has been an entertaining read to see the extreme views of a 20+ year old website.
> 
> Happy to take patches for this. Happy to provide access to development environments for your use.
> 
> This has been provided in the past but no final work came out of it. They got logged in, started working, but no conclusions.


Since that post, there has been a great deal of work on the HTML side of the side. Nothing dramatic in visual terms. Mostly in bringing the HTML up to HTML5 standards. This work has been done by


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## Deleted member 30996 (Jun 17, 2021)

> Showing results for https://www.freshports.org/





> Document checking completed. No errors or warnings to show.
> Used the HTML parser. Externally specified character encoding was UTF-8.
> Total execution time 192 milliseconds.
> 
> ...



Looks good to me. 

When I switched between pages today I saw the colorbar bg for a brief moment before the page loaded, like in the shot grahamperrin provided but it looks like you do that with CSS.

Your CSS link at the bottom of your page shows errors:



			W3C CSS Validator results for https://www.freshports.org/ (CSS level 3 + SVG)
		


I looked at it and you leave a space between each attribute. 


```
*  {                                                        
box-sizing : border-box;                                
}

.holiday.pride  {                                                                                           
background : repeating-linear-gradient(#cc66ff 0, #cc66ff 2em, #ff6699 2em, #ff6699 4em, #ff0000 4em, #ff0000 6em, #ff9900 6em, #ff9900 8em, #ffff00 8em, #ffff00 10em, #009900 10em, #009900 12em, #0099cc 12em, #0099cc 14em, #330099 14em, #330099 16em, #990099 16em, #990099 18em);                                                                            
height : 100%;                                
}
```

That takes up space and makes it take longer to load. If you bring your elements together it will be a smaller file and load quicker:

```
*  {                                                        
box-sizing : border-box;                                
}
.holiday.pride  {                                                                                           
background : repeating-linear-gradient(#cc66ff 0, #cc66ff 2em, #ff6699 2em, #ff6699 4em, #ff0000 4em, #ff0000 6em, #ff9900 6em, #ff9900 8em, #ffff00 8em, #ffff00 10em, #009900 10em, #009900 12em, #0099cc 12em, #0099cc 14em, #330099 14em, #330099 16em, #990099 16em, #990099 18em);                                                                            
height : 100%;                                
}
```


----------



## grahamperrin@ (Jun 17, 2021)

Trihexagonal said:


> … When I switched between pages today I saw the colorbar bg for a brief moment before the page loaded, like in the shot grahamperrin provided …



A few minutes ago, I found the background beneath a complete header (unlike the intentionally-interrupted header above) at the home page for more than thirty seconds. No complaint, because it's cheerful  and the delay was exceptional. Subsequent loads of the page took less than a second.


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## Jose (Jun 17, 2021)

grahamperrin said:


> A few minutes ago, I found the background beneath a complete header (unlike the intentionally-interrupted header above) at the home page for more than thirty seconds. No complaint, because it's cheerful  and the delay was exceptional. Subsequent loads of the page took less than a second.


Not only no complaints here, it was also a pleasant surprise.


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## dvl@ (Jun 17, 2021)

grahamperrin said:


> A few minutes ago, I found the background beneath a complete header (unlike the intentionally-interrupted header above) at the home page for more than thirty seconds. No complaint, because it's cheerful  and the delay was exceptional. Subsequent loads of the page took less than a second.



That delay was related to exceptional load on the server:


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## dvl@ (Jun 17, 2021)

Trihexagonal said:


> Your CSS link at the bottom of your page shows errors:​
> 
> 
> W3C CSS Validator results for https://www.freshports.org/ (CSS level 3 + SVG)



Do you happen to know how to fix those errors?


----------



## dvl@ (Jun 17, 2021)

grahamperrin said:


> Just one complaint: my web browser seems to have ceased showing the entire background before any foreground content appears. I can't find an explanation in the code, so I guess that my browser getting _better_ has reduced the _fun_.
> 
> Edit: better now. Thank you, Escape key …
> 
> View attachment 10191


I think that seeing, or not seeing this, is related to caching.


----------



## Deleted member 30996 (Jun 17, 2021)

I'll take a look at it and see what I can do. It shows the errors, I may have to find the right property it wants:


```
44     .maincontent p     Property margin-block-end doesn't exist : 0
187     table.maincontent td > *:first-child, .commit-list td > *:first-child     Property margin-block-start doesn't exist : 0
334     li#configureplist-Extra     Property padding-inline-start doesn't exist : 0
400     dd.required     Property margin-inline-start doesn't exist : 30px
407     dt.pkg-plist, dd.pkg-plist, dt.pkgname, dt.flavors     Property margin-inline-start doesn't exist : 0
414     dt.notice     Property margin-inline-start doesn't exist : 0
428     ol.required, ol.depends, ol.mastersites     Property padding-inline-start doesn't exist : 0
```


----------

