# WhatsApp uses FreeBSD



## drhowarddrfine (Feb 20, 2014)

In light of the Facebook purchase of WhatsApp for $19 billion dollars, I just learned that they use FreeBSD as noted in slide 7 here: http://goo.gl/v8FEAB. Slide 18 comments about approaching 2.8 million connections:





> FreeBSD shines


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## dburkland (Feb 23, 2014)

Pretty cool read, thanks for sharing!


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## Carpetsmoker (Feb 23, 2014)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =585260859

This was on Wikipedia for 5 years :\


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## jrm@ (Feb 24, 2014)

@Carpetsmoker, I don't see anything related to WhatsApp in that link.  Am I missing something?


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## wblock@ (Feb 24, 2014)

The part where it said "The only major technology company using FreeBSD is Yahoo."


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## jrm@ (Feb 24, 2014)

I see.  I interpreted _this_ in 





			
				Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> _This_ was on Wikipedia for 5 years


 to mean something different.


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## Martillo1 (Feb 24, 2014)

Just for posterity.


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## Carpetsmoker (Feb 24, 2014)

jrm said:
			
		

> @Carpetsmoker, I don't see anything related to WhatsApp in that link.  Am I missing something?



Yeah, as already pointed out, the "The only major technology company using FreeBSD is Yahoo." was my point. When I changed this, I looked at who changed it, and as far as I can tell, this was changed by a constructive Wikipedia editor, making otherwise good edits (meaning: it wasn't a troll/fanboy/etc.).

There seems to be a common public perception that FreeBSD (and OpenBSD) is a bit of a fringe OS. Used only by ageing bearded bachelors above the age of 40, or something. BSD may not be as large as it once was, or as large as Linux, but it's certainly not a fringe OS. I'm not _overly_ worried about this, but I do think it contributes at least in some degree to the lack of support from certain applications, companies, and communities in general.


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## CurlyTheStooge (Feb 24, 2014)

I don't understand the point.  They have also mentioned they use Linux. So what's the big deal here? FreeBSD is a server OS, meant to be used like this. A couple of companies use it, very few of them mention it. That's it.

Regards.


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## _martin (Feb 26, 2014)

Yeah, and it was working perfectly before Facebook bought it. Now, it takes ages to load and retrieve information. WhatsApp was a great app; I don't trust it though any more. I am moving to a new app - Telegram (and Viber as a fallback app). So far not very popular but hey, that was true for WhatsApp too.


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## SirDice (Feb 26, 2014)

matoatlantis said:
			
		

> Moving to new app - telegram (and Viber as a fallback app). So far not very popular but hey, that was true for WhatsApp too.


Not trying to take this thread too far offtopic but WhatsApp always had abysmal security. Until they got called out on it all messages were transferred un-encrypted. Now they've added encryption but the implementation is crap at best. Telegram states it's more secure but they used some home-grown encryption scheme instead of using tried-and-tested protocols. Although it's created by a couple of mathematicians, they're not cryptographers. I don't trust it.

http://unhandledexpression.com/2013/12/ ... now-maths/


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## Carpetsmoker (Feb 26, 2014)

SirDice said:
			
		

> matoatlantis said:
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Just about _anything_ related to mobile phones has either no security, or woefully bad security. It's like the '90s all over again. I just ditched my "smart"phone and got a regular old phone with _only_ a phone function. I'll wait until something halfway decent turns up (if ever). At least I last 3-4 weeks on a single battery now...


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## pkubaj (Feb 26, 2014)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> SirDice said:
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I went another way - when I bought a new phone, I chose one for running as much FOSS software as possible. I considered getting an N900 (which I had before, but it got old), but eventually went for a Galaxy S3 with Replicant. I'm also curious about the Neo900 ( http://neo900.org/ ) but it will probably be around 800 EUR.


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## Carpetsmoker (Feb 26, 2014)

pkubaj said:
			
		

> I went another way - when I bought a new phone, I chose one for running as much FOSS software as possible. I considered getting N900 (which I had before, but it got old), but eventually went for Galaxy S3 with Replicant. I'm also curious about Neo900 ( http://neo900.org/ ) but it will probably be around 800 EUR.



I had the Nokia N9, which is the successor the the N900; It was a 'halfway decent' phone (not great, mind you), except that no one (including Nokia) supported it.

The Neo900 looks interesting; at least it has a physical keyboard. I used to own an LG GW620, which had a super keyboard, but sucked at almost everything else. 800 Euro is probably too much, though.

My experience with installing third party software on Android devices is not good, by the way. Looking at the install instructions does not make me happy. I always spent days mucking about on my LG. Not to mention that you seem to lose your GPS and camera, two of the more useful functions of a smartphone IMO.


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## tzoi516 (Feb 26, 2014)

Didn't LG recently get dinged for collecting user data?

Edit: ZFR my last. Their smart TVs were collecting user data. Iouldn't be surprised if some of their other electronics did too.


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## pkubaj (Feb 26, 2014)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

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GPS doesn't work, but one can use e.g. OpenStreetMap with OsmAnd. For me maps are enough. Camera with video is working with some small bugs (panorama mode not working). Only the front camera doesn't work, but I've never used it anyway (not only with this phone, but with my earlier ones as well).


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## _martin (Feb 26, 2014)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> SirDice said:
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Well, I'm not in the position _to be able_ to judge. Their cypher might be weak. But there's still a difference if somebody catches my messages on fly (hey, they'll know I'll be drinking beer at 7pm tomorrow  ) or somebody has access to my past messages, contacts, etc. If WhatsApp was done by Facebook I'd not allow them to use my data (well I would not use it in the first place). But now as they bought it, they do have the right. And I don't like that.


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## Crivens (Feb 27, 2014)

tzoi516 said:
			
		

> Didn't LG recently get dinged for collecting user data?
> 
> Edit:
> ZFR my last. Their smart TVs were collecting user data. Wouldn't be surprised if some of their other electronics did too.


Correction/Nitpicking: they got caught doing that. It does not tell you if they do collect data in the phones or not.


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## Nukama (Feb 27, 2014)

I've payed money for WhatsApp's service, only because they've donated to the FreeBSD Foundation (tough decision, looking with a closed eye at their security record).

I'm looking into buying a Neo 9000, as a logical step forward after possessing a Neo Freerunner.  Paired with TextSecure and some FullDiskEncryption, this could leap endpoint security one small step forward.


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## ronaldlees (Feb 28, 2014)

I don't trust smart phones in general, but those Galaxy processors are interesting (Exynos5 Octa Cortex-A15 eight core at 1.6 GHz, available now in a Soc board (Udroid-XU)) and just waiting for a FreeBSD port.  But - dang - it uses the  proprietary PowerVR GPU, with binary-only drivers for Android and Linux.  I'm _almost_ willing to run Android for that


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## overmind (Mar 7, 2014)

Some donation to FreeBSD Foundation would be nice, from the seller of WhatsApp. Like 1 billion for example?


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## _martin (Mar 18, 2014)

Not to stir away too much from the subject, but I found a new alternative to WhatsApp - Threema. Though paid, seems to be very good.


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## Jamescraig (Apr 29, 2014)

CurlyTheStooge said:
			
		

> I don't understand the point.  They have also mentioned they use Linux. So what's the big deal here? FreeBSD is a server OS, meant to be used like this. A couple of companies use it, very few of them mention it. That's it.
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> Regards.


 Agreed.


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## drhowarddrfine (Apr 29, 2014)

Jamescraig said:
			
		

> CurlyTheStooge said:
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The point is the same that others will use where some will say that FreeBSD is a little known product that no one uses, yet, here we are with companies like WhatsApp and Netflix using FreeBSD as their main technology, thus showing that such statements are false.


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## CurlyTheStooge (Apr 29, 2014)

drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> The point is the same that others will use where some will say that FreeBSD is a little known product that no one uses, yet, here we are with companies like WhatsApp and Netflix using FreeBSD as their main technology, thus showing that such statements are false.



Whatsapp, as _one of_ their main technologies.

Regards.


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## drhowarddrfine (Apr 29, 2014)

CurlyTheStooge said:
			
		

> drhowarddrfine said:
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Doesn't matter. 95% of what my little company does is on FreeBSD. Linux and Windows is "one of my main technologies" but that shows you what I think of Linux and Windows. The point is, Whatsapp chose FreeBSD over Linux and Windows because they decided FreeBSD is better than them for that usage.


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## CurlyTheStooge (Apr 29, 2014)

drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> because they decided FreeBSD is better than them for that usage.



That, I agree. As a server OS, FreeBSD is top notch.

Regards.


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## overmind (Nov 17, 2014)

Do you remember when I said: "Some donation to the FreeBSD Foundation would be nice, from the seller of WhatsApp."? Well it happenned: http://freebsdfoundation.blogspot.com/2014/11/freebsd-foundation-announces-generous.html


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## wblock@ (Nov 17, 2014)

Quick, mention some other companies that should be donating.


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## scottro (Nov 18, 2014)

For those who didn't bother to click the link, in this case, "generous" was  one million US dollars.


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## tanked (Nov 18, 2014)

That one million donation is wonderful, I've been waiting for a company to do this - NetApp, Juniper, Apple and others should follow suit.


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## DutchDaemon (Nov 18, 2014)

Ehm, tanked, you should take a look at the Donors page of the FreeBSD Foundation. You will find Netflix, NetAPP, Google, Juniper, and VMWare there. WhatsApp already donated 25-50K last year.


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## tanked (Nov 18, 2014)

I meant all donate a million each  tongue-in-cheek....


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## scottro (Nov 18, 2014)

I believe that the donation was actually from CEO and co-founder Jan Koum.  He put his reasons on a Facebook page.  For those of us who don't have Facebook, someone on Reddit posted his message.


> Last week, I donated one million dollars to the FreeBSD Foundation, which supports the open source operating system that has helped millions of programmers pursue their passions and bring their ideas to life.
> 
> I’m actually one of those people. I started using FreeBSD in the late 90s, when I didn’t have much money and was living in government housing. In a way, FreeBSD helped lift me out of poverty – one of the main reasons I got a job at Yahoo! is because they were using FreeBSD, and it was my operating system of choice. Years later, when Brian and I set out to build WhatsApp, we used FreeBSD to keep our servers running. We still do.
> 
> I’m announcing this donation to shine a light on the good work being done by the FreeBSD Foundation, with the hope that others will also help move this project forward. We’ll all benefit if FreeBSD can continue to give people the same opportunity it gave me – if it can lift more immigrant kids out of poverty, and help more startups build something successful, and even transformative.


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## wblock@ (Nov 18, 2014)

Dear Apple, Microsoft, and Sony: what happened to you guys?  You used to be cool.  Now look at what this WhatsApp guy did, that's cool.  Don't you want to be cool?


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## Deever (Nov 19, 2014)

tanked said:


> That one million donation is wonderful, I've been waiting for a company to do this - NetApp, Juniper, Apple and others should follow suit.


Don't forget that NetApp contributed bhyve. Money isn't everything!


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## igorino (Nov 21, 2014)

wblock@ said:


> Quick, mention some other companies that should be donating.


Apple and Microsoft, both, a lot.


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## oliver108 (Mar 15, 2019)

WhatsApp has switched from FreeBSD to Linux.

See https://codesync.global/uploads/med.../82e4e624dc998b2633855c2bc66004c25a5e961c.pdf


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## DutchDaemon (Mar 15, 2019)

That was only a matter of time; Facebook was going to migrate it to their platform sooner rather than later.


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## tommiie (Mar 15, 2019)

oliver108 said:


> WhatsApp has switched from FreeBSD to Linux.


I skimmed through the PDF but did not find a reason _why_ they moved from FreeBSD to Linux.


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## drhowarddrfine (Mar 15, 2019)

And look at the turmoil WhatsApp has been going through lately. I wonder if Facebook, et al, downtime yesterday had anything to do with that. It wasn't broke but someone tried to fix it.


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## SirDice (Mar 15, 2019)

tommiie said:


> I skimmed through the PDF but did not find a reason _why_ they moved from FreeBSD to Linux.


Probably for the reason DutchDaemon mentioned.


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## Nicola Mingotti (Mar 16, 2019)

drhowarddrfine said:


> In light of the Facebook purchase of WhatsApp for $19 billion dollars, I just learned that they use FreeBSD as noted in slide 7 here: http://goo.gl/v8FEAB. Slide 18 comments about approaching 2.8 million connections:


 
the link seems gone


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## rigoletto@ (Mar 16, 2019)

pyret said:


> Android has 85% of the mobile device market.
> Red Hat has 33% of the server market share.  (Windows 47% and the remaining belongs to "other")
> 
> Those are troubling numbers.  Nobody wanted the East German Trabant to be the dominant vehicle produced, and essentially destroy the rest of the competition.  And nobody should be pleased with the dominance of Linux.



There is a very simple rule governing all markets:  _the wider the audience the lower will be the quality_ _of the product_.

There is no escape of that rule. More targets means more compromises which means costs increasing exponentially if you try keep the quality.

*E.g.* all cited examples have 0% of the high-integrity safety-critical market (you can find them in workstations etc. but not in the core products), which is dominated buy THIS guy and custom written OSes. And that is quite obvious why.

Well you can find Linux in planes, in the entertainment system, but that is completely irrelevant in regards to safety-critical.


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