# Did you guys sign this petition for native flash for FreeBSD?



## Citsakots (Dec 6, 2008)

I recently did and even though realistically Adobe won't really care to even read it, it's good to show support for the FreeBSD community.

http://www.petitiononline.com/flash4me/petition.html

I also recommend to sign up and vote here: http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-1060. This will bring more attention.


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## marius (Dec 6, 2008)

Great initiative. We should do something to try speed things up. Dreaming or giving up won't get you anywhere.

I encourage everyone to sign this one.


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## ale (Dec 6, 2008)

It's a waste of time


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## Citsakots (Dec 7, 2008)

ale said:
			
		

> It's a waste of time


A waste of what? A minute or so? And who knows maybe the Adobe bone-heads will finally realize how much people actually support FreeBSD.



			
				marius said:
			
		

> Great initiative. We should do something to try speed things up. Dreaming or giving up won't get you anywhere.
> 
> I encourage everyone to sign this one.



I agree. I truly think the only way to actually get Adobe to listen up is by the media. I'm going to try to talk to various BSD supporters who own websites and/or blogs to post articles supporting the idea of native flash in FreeBSD. I would appreciate the help from the community. Who ever owns a website/blog or wants to help then PM me so we can actually do something about this dilemma instead of sitting around doing nothing but complaining.

Supporters For Native FreeBSD Flash
------------------------------------
*None for now. If you would like to be a supporter then post a link to your website with content showing your support.

*If anyone can make a little badge-like image saying "Native FreeBSD Flash Supporter" then that would be appreciated. I still don't have my system set up so I can't do that for now .


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## Citsakots (Dec 7, 2008)

Citsakots said:
			
		

> I recently did and even though realistically Adobe won't really care to even read it, it's good to show support for the FreeBSD community.
> 
> http://www.petitiononline.com/flash4me/petition.html



Supporters For Native FreeBSD Flash
------------------------------------
*None for now. If you would like to be a supporter then post a link to your website with content showing your support.

*If anyone can make a little badge-like image saying "Native FreeBSD Flash Supporter" then that would be appreciated. I still don't have my system set up so I can't do that for now .


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## xwwu (Dec 7, 2008)

adobe is money oriental company. who pay? I think swfdec or gnash is ok.


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## Citsakots (Dec 7, 2008)

xwwu said:
			
		

> adobe is money oriental company. who pay? I think swfdec or gnash is ok.



No one should pay. I see it pretty simply. Linux hasn't paid and Adobe has released Flash for them, now why not for FreeBSD? Their not making any money by releasing Flash and Adobe Reader for Linux anyways.


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## nakal (Dec 7, 2008)

Adobe is obviously as interested in making a Flash Plugin for FreeBSD as Microsoft is interested in porting MS-Office to FreeBSD.


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## adamk (Dec 7, 2008)

Citsakots said:
			
		

> No one should pay. I see it pretty simply. Linux hasn't paid and Adobe has released Flash for them, now why not for FreeBSD?



There is a much larger userbase for desktop linux than there is for desktop freebsd.

That's why.

Adam


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## Citsakots (Dec 7, 2008)

adamk said:
			
		

> There is a much larger userbase for desktop linux than there is for desktop freebsd.
> 
> That's why.
> 
> Adam



I'm sorry to say but you could say the exact same thing about Linux compared to OS X and Windows but clearly that statement doesn't fly.



			
				nakal said:
			
		

> Adobe is obviously as interested in making a Flash Plugin for FreeBSD as Microsoft is interested in porting MS-Office to FreeBSD.



Haha. Wow, biggest exaggeration I've heard in a while. Flash isn't much compared to MS-Office. The main reason why Adobe isn't interested is because they don't see that the FreeBSD community actually cares enough to make a deal out of it. Maybe if we spark some media interest it could take off. Also it shouldn't be only the FreeBSD community supporting native FreeBSD flash but the open source community as well. As I see it, we should try to spark interest by getting some attention.


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## adamk (Dec 7, 2008)

Citsakots said:
			
		

> I'm sorry to say but you could say the exact same thing about Linux compared to OS X and Windows but clearly that statement doesn't fly.



You're right about linux vs os x and windows.  But that doesn't change the validity of my statement.

If you don't want to look like your limiting your product to Apple and Microsoft, and you want to choose another operating system to support, linux makes much more sense than FreeBSD.

Adam


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## kamikaze (Dec 7, 2008)

Do I want flash? Hell, I'm about to uninstall gnash, because there's animated advertisement everywhere.


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## marius (Dec 7, 2008)

I must say that I agree on most things said here, although I can't say that I like what I see. Of course the logical choice is to give Linux and not FreeBSD a flashplayer. Just think about (actually, you don't even need to think) the huge number of desktop users on Linux compared to FreeBSD. Linux has had their flash support for years now, it's time to show Adobe that FreeBSD is also an operating system that wants the same support.

Maybe it's a waste of time, but how much time don't you waste every day in front of TV or whatever you spend your precious time on? For gods sake, do it at work, you'll even get paid at the same time! Problem solved.

I can see the problems, and maybe I'm just dreaming, but it's better to dream than to give up before it has even started. If you guys keep up with the same attitude you're showing off on this board, you won't get anywhere in life!

The next weeks I'll be talking with everyone I know, I'll do my job and will try to get as many to sign as possible. The Norwegian BSD scene will be informed. I'll even get my grandma to sign if I have to 

Again, I encourage everyone to do the same thing.



			
				Citsakots said:
			
		

> *If anyone can make a little badge-like image saying "Native FreeBSD Flash Supporter" then that would be appreciated. I still don't have my system set up so I can't do that for now .



I like the idea.

Just one more thing before I end this post, and to make things crystal clear. I do NOT like Flash, I have never liked it and will never ever like it. Why do I want this flash support then? Because more and more websites use flash in such a stupid way that you are required to have it installed to be able to use the website. 

*** Can someone make a post about this website on the DesktopBSD and PC-BSD forums? (if they have one). Also, I heard something about a person being in contact with Adobe about porting this flashplayer to FreeBSD. Not sure if it was someone from the FreeBSD team or not, but any news would be appreciated. ***


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## Carpetsmoker (Dec 7, 2008)

I would prefer people would just stop making bad flash websites.
Stop Adobe Flash Petition

Unfortunately flash is becoming something of a ``necessity'', corporate and even government websites use it increasingly.

I fear flash is like cockroaches, rats, or HTML email, a pest almost impossible to eradicate.


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## Citsakots (Dec 7, 2008)

marius said:
			
		

> I must say that I agree on most things said here, although I can't say that I like what I see. Of course the logical choice is to give Linux and not FreeBSD a flashplayer. Just think about (actually, you don't even need to think) the huge number of desktop users on Linux compared to FreeBSD. Linux has had their flash support for years now, it's time to show Adobe that FreeBSD is also an operating system that wants the same support.
> 
> Maybe it's a waste of time, but how much time don't you waste every day in front of TV or whatever you spend your precious time on? For gods sake, do it at work, you'll even get paid at the same time! Problem solved.
> 
> ...



Great post. I will post a thread at PC-BSD, DesktopBSD and the Daemon Forums. I also dislike Flash but I think that FreeBSD deserves the same attention especially when now PC-BSD and DesktopBSD is aimed at desktop users.

Edit: I'm running dual-boot with a Linux distribution but I personally love the FreeBSD philosophy. It's much more professional in my opinion, BSD license is more versatile and overall I like how stable it is.


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## Citsakots (Dec 7, 2008)

** Update ** I posted a thread at the PC-BSD forum. http://forums.pcbsd.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12867


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## meeb (Dec 7, 2008)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> I fear flash is like cockroaches, rats, or HTML email, a pest almost impossible to eradicate.



I would like to have the opportunity to block it wherever it annoys me.


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## Citsakots (Dec 7, 2008)

** Update ** I posted a thread at the Ubuntu forums. I figured that with the help from the Ubuntu community we could get a little help.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1004857

** Update ** Posted a thread at another popular BSD forum: daemonforums.org.

http://daemonforums.org/showthread.php?p=19056


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## ale (Dec 8, 2008)

Citsakots, maybe you don't know it, but those petitions for flash* on FreeBSD has been done over and over.

*native


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## Citsakots (Dec 8, 2008)

ale said:
			
		

> Citsakots, maybe you don't know it, but those petitions for flash* on FreeBSD has been done over and over.
> 
> *native


I know they've been done many times and the petition wont do nothing by itself but it's a nice list to show Adobe that there really are a nice amount of FreeBSD users who want a native Flash player.

** Message ** I understand that MANY people don't care about flash because they don't like it, or maybe don't use it too much but this whole thing isn't about that. It's about FreeBSD getting the attention it deserves. I truly think FreeBSD has been around for long enough, especially with it's reputation for being a stable and amazing OS for it not to be supported with something that is very basic for a common desktop OS. I don't use flash too much either except for YouTube but that's not the reason why I'm doing this.


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## lme@ (Dec 8, 2008)

Can you point me to one single online petition that actually changed _anything_?


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## Citsakots (Dec 8, 2008)

lme@ said:
			
		

> Can you point me to one single online petition that actually changed _anything_?



The petition is not going to change NOTHING. That is just so that if people need some backing up of the idea that there is actually people from the FreeBSD that want flash then we could post the petition as proof. What we need to do is get people to write about it and talk about it. Show some demand.


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## marius (Dec 8, 2008)

Maybe a petition won't change anything, but according to the PC-BSD team, they had about 150 000 downloads of the latest version of PC-BSD. What does that show? It should mean that there are many users out there, although they might not understand that the flash player currently running on PC-BSD is emulated, or running with wine.

I have heard of people choosing Linux over FreeBSD just because of the flash support. It can be that simple for some people to ignore an entire operating system. Maybe we don't need those people, but come on, it doesn't make things any easier if people are running away from us.

To make it simple: If you care, spread the word about http://www.petitiononline.com/flash4me/petition.html

Contact Citsakots if anyone are really interested in helping or have any ideas on what should be done to make Adobe listen.


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## Citsakots (Dec 8, 2008)

** Major Edit ** I currently have two more people working with me now. They feel that FreeBSD should have it's own native Flash and were still looking for more people to help. Contact me at citsakots@gmail.com if you want to help.


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## UNIXgod (Dec 9, 2008)

Citsakots said:
			
		

> ** Major Edit ** I currently have two more people working with me now. They feel that FreeBSD should have it's own native Flash and were still looking for more people to help. Contact me at citsakots@gmail.com if you want to help.



Hey man. I think it's great that you have such a drive for this. I have many friends who have kids that would love to have them grow up UNIX with Disney flash games native.

I think though the petition will go unnoticed by adobe. Much like these internet petitions have over the years.

Good luck with your endeavor.


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## Citsakots (Dec 9, 2008)

UNIXgod said:
			
		

> Hey man. I think it's great that you have such a drive for this. I have many friends who have kids that would love to have them grow up UNIX with Disney flash games native.
> 
> I think though the petition will go unnoticed by adobe. Much like these internet petitions have over the years.
> 
> Good luck with your endeavor.



Thank you very much . I agree that the petition will go unnoticed by Adobe but that's why I'm working with a group to get the attention of Adobe in other ways. I truly think the only thing the petition will do is show Adobe there actually is people who want Flash ported over to FreeBSD and it won't be a complete waste.


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## MP2E (Dec 9, 2008)

lme@ said:
			
		

> Can you point me to one single online petition that actually changed _anything_?



Actually I know of one off the top of my head. Take a look over at the Doom-ing community for instance, Doom is an old game from like 1993, however it's community managed to pull a petition together a few months ago to Raven software about one of their commercial games, which was based on the Doom engine, called Heretic. Previously the source code was under a license that was GPL incompatible(which was what the Doom Source Code was released under), however after a few months, tons of signatures, a highlight on the GNU webpage, and a community member named Quasar emailing the team almost non-stop, This goal was completed not long ago.

http://www.doomworld.com <- Go there if you want the story, though you may have to dig a bit as the news is older.

Online Petitions DO work, but you have to have a company that is responsive, and a lot of work from the general community.


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## bsddaemon (Dec 9, 2008)

Citsakots said:
			
		

> ** Update ** Posted a thread at another popular BSD forum: daemonforums.org.
> 
> http://daemonforums.org/showthread.php?p=19056



Have fun posting this kind of thread in daemonforums. Im pretty sure deamonforums guys *hate flash as much as I do*. I just dont have much energy as those guys to be aggressive with flash. You probably wont get any nice responses there. 

You are missing the poing of using FreeBSD. Seriously, if you need a multimedia machine so bad, why not Linux, or even Windows, Mac?


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## Citsakots (Dec 9, 2008)

bsddaemon said:
			
		

> Have fun posting this kind of thread in daemonforums. Im pretty sure deamonforums guys *hate flash as much as I do*. I just dont have much energy as those guys to be aggressive with flash. You probably wont get any nice responses there.
> 
> You are missing the poing of using FreeBSD. Seriously, if you need a multimedia machine so bad, why not Linux, or even Windows, Mac?



Missing the point? FreeBSD is an OS. It was built on servers in mind but it shouldn't be limited to that only. It has the tools to be a great desktop. It seems your missing the point . Also for now I've gotten no rude responses. Seems your one of the main with a lot of attitude to share. :stud

Edit: I don't NEED a multimedia machine badly. Many people take think I'm doing this for the sake of watching YouTube in FreeBSD natively. That's not why. It's so that FreeBSD is actually acknowledged enough by Adobe just like it's counterpart Linux. Also why should I be restricted to Linux if I want a desktop even though to me FreeBSD is clearly a superior OS? I like how FreeBSD works things, their philosophy and even their very intelligent yet attitude filled community .


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## bsddaemon (Dec 9, 2008)

Citsakots said:
			
		

> Also for now I've gotten no rude responses.



Probably now it is cliche for them. There was a big topic about flash not long ago. Find and read it if interested.



> It's so that FreeBSD is actually acknowledged enough by Adobe just like it's counterpart Linux.



Thanks, but no thanks. FreeBSD is not multimedia OS, why Adobe bothers to offer it to us? Just like to respect a 5 year old kid as a male, do we need to sell condom to him?



> Also why should I be restricted to Linux if I want a desktop even though to me FreeBSD is clearly a superior OS?



Superior as per stability, quality? You want stability and quality, but also demand that kind of fancy stuff? Sorry, they dont go along very well, my dear



> I like how FreeBSD works things, their philosophy and even their very intelligent yet attitude filled community .



I must be laughing so hard. He even dare to mention Unix philosophy in a farking evil flash topic. I bet you havent read/understood a single word in Unix philosophy!

PS: dont know why, but Im just thinking, *a Unix dude demands flash is just like a linux guy migrated from windows wanna get rid of CLI*


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## Citsakots (Dec 10, 2008)

Wow. Where to begin?



> Thanks, but no thanks. FreeBSD is not multimedia OS, why Adobe bothers to offer it to us? Just like to respect a 5 year old kid as a male, do we need to sell condom to him?


That had to be one of the stupidest examples I've heard. FreeBSD is not a multimedia OS nor is it an OS which limits you to one subject. If YOU prefer FreeBSD as server only then good for you. You can do that . I plan on doing that as well but if I'm able to make it as my desktop in another computer, then why not? "do we need to sell condom to him" That was a bit funny but more disturbing then anything else.



> Superior as per stability, quality? You want stability and quality, but also demand that kind of fancy stuff? Sorry, they dont go along very well, my dear


It's funny how your saying I'm "demanding" fancy stuff. Please re-read all my posts and don't call me dear. Your not my grandmother:f.



> I must be laughing so hard. He even dare to mention Unix philosophy in a farking evil flash topic. I bet you havent read/understood a single word in Unix philosophy!
> 
> PS: dont know why, but Im just thinking, a Unix dude demands flash is just like a linux guy migrated from windows wanna get rid of CLI


I'm talking about the FreeBSD philosophy. Also you keep saying I'm demanding something for some reason . Also I've read about the Unix philosophy as well and a very important one is this one: "allow the user to tailor the environment ". The beauty of BSD/Unix is that I'm able to choose what my system will end up as. You seem to contradict the Unix philosophy by saying "FreeBSD is ONLY for servers! FLASH IS THE DEVIL!". You're extremely funny in a saddening way.:stud

I seriously need to make a new topic changing the title or something so people don't go ahead and assume things. Just one thing for the people like the ones who say idiotic things like these: Read My Posts.


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## MP2E (Dec 10, 2008)

I thought FreeBSD's idealogy was always about the tools, rather than the methods. What I mean by this, is that the setup disk along with the ports and package systems are used to create the OS YOU want from the bare bones that require it to run. FreeBSD may be more server oriented programming-wise, however, I find it to be a great Desktop approach as well. Why Flash on FreeBSD? For the Desktop users. Flash WILL NOT hurt the server side, nor will it put any more strain on the developers, so why do you care? Bashing it accomplishes nothing, and anyway why shouldn't BSD have as much support as it can get? Flash will only increase how people are able to use BSD for desktop purposes, and in my opinion, attacking how "flash is taking over the web" in a BSD forum isn't going to do anything about that issue.

FreeBSD SHOULD have a native flash plugin, because what if I WANT to use it as a multimedia system? Why can't I? Why am I restricted to operating systems I'm not nearly as comfortable with?



> PS: dont know why, but Im just thinking, a Unix dude demands flash is just like a linux guy migrated from windows wanna get rid of CLI


Uhhh what? How does this even make sense? It's like saying "Oh, I prefer SH, so I don't think X.org or Window Managers should be ported to *BSD because Unix didn't have it back in the day!". They are both good for their own purposes, and of course people are always supporting one or the other. I see purpose in both. So, since most of the internet AND other operating systems are using Flash, why shouldn't BSD? Once again I refer to above, it makes as much sense as saying "Well Unix didn't have a Window manager back in the day, if you want one go to Linux, Mac, or Windows!"


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## Ole (Dec 11, 2008)

In any events, FreeBSD today tend to stand up Desktop OS.
It view in some post like
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39268549,00.htm
and fact of usage FreeBSD like Desktop
and a work of hundred people on the earth who spend time for porting multimedia application to FreeBSD.  Therefore is claiming


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## marius (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm not sure if I even bother to comment on some of the earlier posts here. FreeBSD should be as clean as possible and ready for server use, but why not give everyone an option? People should be free to choose whatever they want, if that means installing X, a web browser, and even a flash player, then that is the choice of the user.

We are all different people and logically enough, we have different meanings about things. Respecting that shouldn't be too hard for most of us.

Even though things doesn't look too bright at the moment, I'm supporting Citsakots, and is part of the team. Instead of fighting I suggest that we all spend the time and power on more important things.

Take care, and have a nice weekend!


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## sverreh (Dec 11, 2008)

Well spoken, Marius!



> Take care, and have a nice weekend!



Weekend :q. In my place (which definitely is in the same timezone as yours) it is still Thursday! :beergrin


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## marius (Dec 13, 2008)

Hehe, you are right sverreh 

When I go to bed on Thursday... it's suddenly Friday when I wake up, and after a few lazy hours at work.... guess what, there it is, the weekend


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## zeiz (Dec 17, 2008)

Citsakots said:
			
		

> The petition is not going to change NOTHING. That is just so that if people need some backing up of the idea that there is actually people from the FreeBSD that want flash then we could post the petition as proof. What we need to do is get people to write about it and talk about it. Show some demand.



Absolutely. Nobody opens if nobody knocks.
We are not about our personal preferences. We are for fully capable FreeBSD and we'd like to see it as a beautiful demoness and not as a gammy gammer with a bottle of "wine" in armpit just because of Adobe, ATI or alike.
It took me exactly 23 sec to sign the petition and many thanks to people who started it.


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## marius (Dec 18, 2008)

We appreciate your support!


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## BigB3n (Jan 3, 2009)

*Link to Adobe's suggestion page*

In case anyone is interested, here is the link to the Adobe Suggestion page:

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/?name=wishform

I have been dealing with the issue of flash on FreeBSD for some time now and for me it isn't a matter of "Is flash good or bad?", it's that in order to use FreeBSD as a desktop you must have flash. The fact that there are native flash players/clients for most all other OS's is unfortunate.


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## marius (Jan 3, 2009)

Of course! Not sure why no one have mentioned that one before. Those of you who don't believe in the petition can go visit that URL instead, or actually, we all should 

Thanks for bringing it up BigB3n.

Citsakots... any reason for the silence? (Last Activity: December 31st)


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## danger@ (Jan 8, 2009)

Vote: http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-1060


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## marius (Jan 13, 2009)

Thanks for that one danger@!

The sad part is that users will have to register to be able to vote, and that this will most likely scare away many users and important votes.

My vote is there, so I have at least done my part of the job so far


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## tuck (Jan 14, 2009)

Haven't you guys read this back in 2008?
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/2008-June/003624.html


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## marius (Jan 18, 2009)

I have, but I still can't see any flash player 6 months later, nor any updated information regarding it. In other words, I see no reason to sit here and wait.

It's nice to see that people have started using http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-1060


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## Citsakots (Jan 18, 2009)

Hello everyone. I'm sorry I haven't been posting on updates and such but I'm on vacation to Argentina right now and getting an Internet connection is tricky . I'll be back home in a couple of days so I will start sharing some info which let's say was supposed to be secret .


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## lme@ (Jan 21, 2009)

marius said:
			
		

> I have, but I still can't see any flash player 6 months later, nor any updated information regarding it. In other words, I see no reason to sit here and wait.
> 
> It's nice to see that people have started using http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-1060



There is ongoing work to port a native Flash to FreeBSD. One developer signed an NDA with Adobe, so it is just a matter of time until we have a usable Flash.


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## hitest (Jan 21, 2009)

lme@ said:
			
		

> There is ongoing work to port a native Flash to FreeBSD. One developer signed an NDA with Adobe, so it is just a matter of time until we have a usable Flash.



Interesting.   Good to know.  Thanks.


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## Citsakots (Jan 21, 2009)

lme@ said:
			
		

> There is ongoing work to port a native Flash to FreeBSD. One developer signed an NDA with Adobe, so it is just a matter of time until we have a usable Flash.


Yup. Not much of a secret anymore .

Matt Olander from IXSystems sent me this message


> Hi Cits!
> 
> Yes, I agree that this would be wonderful and I have been working on it for over a year. We are finally at the point where we have signed an NDA to assist Adobe with the native Flash for FreeBSD port. Please keep this confidential as it is not public knowledge yet. As soon as I have more information that I can give out, I will post on the FreeBSD announce and advocacy lists ;-)
> 
> ...



His e-mail is matt@ixsystems.com if you want to contact him. I gathered a little team of beta testers for him in his request but he has stopped replying.


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## marius (Jan 23, 2009)

lme@:

Thanks for sharing the information. I already knew this, but thought it was confidential. Even though they have signed an NDA, I can't just sit here and hope it goes our way. We should keep showing Adobe that they have made the right choice.

http://bugs.adobe.com/jira/browse/FP-1060

Thanks again for sharing the information.


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## Citsakots (Jan 25, 2009)

marius said:
			
		

> lme@:
> 
> Thanks for sharing the information. I already knew this, but thought it was confidential. Even though they have signed an NDA, I can't just sit here and hope it goes our way. We should keep showing Adobe that they have made the right choice.
> 
> ...



It was ment to be confidential but because Matt hasn't replied I guess other people should ask him for some more info. Maybe he'll snap and give us some info .


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## SPlissken (Jan 26, 2009)

First sign of opening from Adobe
Adope open rtmp protocol
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200901/012009RTMP.html


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## asapilu (Feb 6, 2009)

sign this not just for flash. show companies how many we are and how much we care about FreeBSD.


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## SR_Ind (Feb 7, 2009)

Flash working in FreeBSD with firefox3 and swfdec-plugin combination. 

Checked with youtube.


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## Graaf_van_Vlaanderen (Feb 7, 2009)

Solaris 10 has Flash player 10 available. Of course they have Sun to put some pressure on Adobe.


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