# Best High End FreeBSD Laptop?



## CoryG (Nov 10, 2021)

So I get this is a really open-ended question, but what's the best high-end laptop for FreeBSD?  AMD preferred for obvious reasons.


----------



## Geezer (Nov 10, 2021)

High end or ordinary, I would go for Lenovo. Important for me would be a large screen and lots of ram.


----------



## VladiBG (Nov 10, 2021)

As i know the FreeBSD is not supported on any laptop manufacture because of very limited audience , so some hardware parts like webcam, fingerprint, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, media keys etc. will not function as they will lack of drivers. 
Other functionality like suspend/resume/quick boot also will not work. Until the computer manufacture start provide support and drivers for they hardware for FreeBSD there's no point of wasting time to configure the FreeBSD on laptop as simple task as configure a Wi-Fi or connecting a phone via Bluetooth or BT headphones  will take so much time of configuration instead of using a supported OS for those Laptops where this is done by simple mouse click.


----------



## a6h (Nov 10, 2021)

Get some ideas from here: Laptops running FreeBSD | FreeBSD Wiki


----------



## CoryG (Nov 10, 2021)

VladiBG said:


> As i know the FreeBSD is not supported on any laptop manufacture because of very limited audience , so some hardware parts like webcam, fingerprint, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, media keys etc. will not function as they will lack of drivers.
> Other functionality like suspend/resume/quick boot also will not work. Until the computer manufacture start provide support and drivers for they hardware for FreeBSD there's no point of wasting time to configure the FreeBSD on laptop as simple task as configure a Wi-Fi or connecting a phone via Bluetooth or BT headphones  will take so much time of configuration instead of using a supported OS for those Laptops where this is done by simple mouse click.


Well, honestly, I hate most of the "features" you said which won't work so not a show stopper for me.  My concerns are more in the realm of "best CPU+video+memory available and functioning with it" and "a full keyboard suitable for programming."


----------



## jbo (Nov 10, 2021)

I made very good experiences with running FreeBSD on Lenovo Thinkpad X1 carbon. In fact, I just ordered a Gen 9 the last week to upgrade from an older model.

Other than that I also have a weird ThinkPad P2000 workstation (Xeon, Quadro, ECC memory). The system certainly runs well but things such as multimedia keys are not getting mapped by default.


----------



## astyle (Nov 10, 2021)

For me, working wifi, Bluetooth, SSD, and a web cam are the basics when looking for a laptop. For that reason, stuff like Asus ROG Strix AMD Advantage laptop is out - it has no webcam. Nothing prevents me from plugging in a cheap USB webcam, but I'd rather have a built-in one.


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 10, 2021)

astyle said:


> Asus ROG Strix AMD Advantage laptop is out - it has no webcam.


I am so paranoid that a laptop having no webcam is actually a plus.

Even the greatest spy on earth puts tape over his webcam:








						Mark Zuckerberg Puts Tape Over His Webcam
					

Is the Facebook CEO acting paranoid, or is this a good practice?




					abcnews.go.com


----------



## astyle (Nov 10, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> I am so paranoid that a laptop having no webcam is actually a plus.
> 
> Even the greatest spy on earth puts tape over his webcam:
> 
> ...


Some nicer ones actually come with webcam covers built in. But you have to pay attention to such details when shopping for a laptop.


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 10, 2021)

astyle said:


> webcam covers




_

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1091449476613468160View: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1091449476613468160
_


----------



## astyle (Nov 10, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> _
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1091449476613468160View: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1091449476613468160_



 I wouldn't put anything past them!


----------



## a6h (Nov 10, 2021)

FreeBSD:
"SuYin Lenovo EasyCamera" cameras generally work.

FreeBSD and OpenBSD:
USB Webcams with compatible drivers for FreeBSD uvc(4) and OpenBSD uvideo(4) generally work.


----------



## CoryG (Nov 10, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> I am so paranoid that a laptop having no webcam is actually a plus.
> 
> Even the greatest spy on earth puts tape over his webcam:
> 
> ...


Definitely.  Same for bluetooth, Intel-based chips, etc.


----------



## a6h (Nov 10, 2021)

eternal_noob said:


> Even the greatest spy on earth puts tape over his webcam:


I saw that photo. I think Zack the Jerk was trolling the public. Probably!
Anyway, it is not paranoid, but if you are concern, you should cover the internal mics too. Not too effective by the way.


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 10, 2021)

vigole said:


> you should cover the internal mics too.


I cut the wire.


----------



## astyle (Nov 10, 2021)

vigole said:


> Anyway, it is not paranoid, but if you are concern, you should cover the internal mics too. Not too effective by the way.


There was a news item when a screaming baby ordered something from Amazon via Alexa  or CIA can listen to a few farts every now and then.


----------



## eternal_noob (Nov 10, 2021)

Hey Alexa, is it true a TV advert made Amazon Echo order cat food?
					

Advertising watchdog rejects Echo Dot owner’s complaint that TV spot was irresponsible




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## a6h (Nov 10, 2021)

astyle said:


> There was a news item when a screaming baby ordered something from Amazon via Alexa  or CIA can listen to a few farts every now and then.


Thanks to the kid, now the eavesdropper in question has enough material well in hand, to get a job at CNN, as a "random(4)-sound(4) Security Analyst" pundit.


----------



## jardows (Nov 10, 2021)

VladiBG said:


> As i know the FreeBSD is not supported on any laptop manufacture because of very limited audience , so some hardware parts like webcam, fingerprint, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, media keys etc. will not function as they will lack of drivers.
> Other functionality like suspend/resume/quick boot also will not work. Until the computer manufacture start provide support and drivers for they hardware for FreeBSD there's no point of wasting time to configure the FreeBSD on laptop as simple task as configure a Wi-Fi or connecting a phone via Bluetooth or BT headphones  will take so much time of configuration instead of using a supported OS for those Laptops where this is done by simple mouse click.


_may_ not work.  Not _will_ not work. On my laptop, webcam, Bluetooth, and Wi-Fi all work. I haven't tried media keys, but there are reports of them able to be configued. Also, there are laptops where suspend/resume do work. And for some, the time spent configuring these things is counted as a learning opportunity, and not wasted time.


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Nov 10, 2021)

So, there CoryG. You've got your answer.

But it seems most people get Thinkpads to work well with FreeBSD.


----------



## blackhaz (Nov 10, 2021)

jbodenmann said:


> In fact, I just ordered a Gen 9 the last week to upgrade from an older model.


Please share your findings. I may need an X1 replacement, currently on 1st Gen X1 Yoga, but it's starting to show its age.


----------



## jbo (Nov 10, 2021)

blackhaz said:


> Please share your findings. I may need an X1 replacement, currently on 1st Gen X1 Yoga, but it's starting to show its age.


I'll be sure to report back. However, with the current situation (or situations by now) I don't expect the new X1 to show up before 8 weeks from now.

I bookmarked your post so I'll find you again 
If you don't hear from me - feel free to reach out & complain.


----------



## VladiBG (Nov 11, 2021)

jardows said:


> _may_ not work.  Not _will_ not work. On my laptop, webcam, Bluetooth, and Wi-Fi all work. I haven't tried media keys, but there are reports of them able to be configued. Also, there are laptops where suspend/resume do work. And for some, the time spent configuring these things is counted as a learning opportunity, and not wasted time.


The new laptops that came with Wifi 6 and BT 5.2?


----------



## diizzy (Nov 11, 2021)

In general I'd say that uses Intel hardware but you might want to look out for drivers if you're going for bleeding edge hardware, Asus(pro), Lavie (NEC/Lenovo), Toshiba (business lineup), Fujitsu (7 or 9 series in their business lineup) are all excellent candidates and I'd rate many of these nicer than Lenovo's X1/Carbon series.


----------



## covacat (Nov 11, 2021)

id buy an intel mac and use VMs for freebsd


----------



## astyle (Nov 11, 2021)

diizzy said:


> In general I'd say that uses Intel hardware but you might want to look out for drivers if you're going for bleeding edge hardware, Asus(pro), Lavie (NEC/Lenovo), Toshiba (business lineup), Fujitsu (7 or 9 series in their business lineup) are all excellent candidates and I'd rate many of these nicer than Lenovo's X1/Carbon series.


Never gave a rat's ass about a computer being for a 'business' 'creative' or 'student' audience. Just check the specs and numbers


----------



## diizzy (Nov 11, 2021)

astyle said:


> Never gave a rat's ass about a computer being for a 'business' 'creative' or 'student' audience. Just check the specs and numbers


Hardware design and overall build quailty is a lot better than consumer models which is why you'd care ;-)
Specs are quite useless if the computer barely works as intended anyway....


----------



## astyle (Nov 11, 2021)

diizzy said:


> Hardware design and overall build quailty is a lot better than consumer models which is why you'd care ;-)
> Specs are quite useless if the computer barely works as intended anyway....


That used to be the case for cheaper Windows laptops back before 2010. But even back then, there were some minimum specs to look for: an i5 or better. "Intended Audience" is just a marketing gimmick to sell crappy hardware. But install Linux or BSD on that cheap and crappy hardware - and not only you squeeze more juice out of the hardware, it's also easier to understand why "Intended Audience" is nothing more than marketing nonsense.


----------



## diizzy (Nov 11, 2021)

Okay, you don't understand and/or care about the difference. That's up to you, I'm sure people more than I do however.


----------



## covacat (Nov 11, 2021)

this is rather old but still funny  just the specific post, not a PC vs MAC pissing contest








						Mac Vs. PC
					

Mac Vs. PC I am in the market for a new Laptop and am an avid PC user. What are some pro's and con's of making the switch to a Mac?




					ask.metafilter.com


----------



## astyle (Nov 11, 2021)

I would shell out more for better specs... Like gaming-grade hardware, even though I'm not a gamer.  Gaming-grade hardware is often the same specs sought out by people who self-identify as creative professionals, rather than gamers. But, the same specs are also sought after by programmers.  Better specs are usually housed in cases that have better build quality, but for those who know what they're after, the cases are just icing on the cake, not the cake.


----------



## jardows (Nov 11, 2021)

VladiBG said:


> The new laptops that came with Wifi 6 and BT 5.2?


You didn't specify Wifi 6 or BT 5.2 in your post.  Perhaps you should have been more specific instead of a blanket "FreeBSD won't work, don't waste your time" statement.


----------



## CoryG (Nov 11, 2021)

astyle said:


> I would shell out more for better specs... Like gaming-grade hardware, even though I'm not a gamer.  Gaming-grade hardware is often the same specs sought out by people who self-identify as creative professionals, rather than gamers. But, the same specs are also sought after by programmers.  Better specs are usually housed in cases that have better build quality, but for those who know what they're after, the cases are just icing on the cake, not the cake.


Most of my "gaming grade hardware" use cases are Blender and OpenSCAD - so I definitely need a decent graphics card - I'd also like to be able to virtualize Windows for sake of some Steam games.  I'm considering doing vSphere for the base and FreeBSD, Windows, Linux on top of that so they can run in parallel, but I've heard you can bans for a lot of Steam games running them in Windows on a vSphere install so that would kind of defeat the purpose there.  I really want to avoid Windows for the root OS on the machine, but also need to get the video card more or less as a 1:1 translation into any virtualized layers.


----------



## VladiBG (Nov 11, 2021)

When you are looking to buy a new high end laptop computer it usually came with the latest technology, so if you are missing some drivers for your Wifi 6 adapter and you need working Wifi then you can buy USB WIFI dongle instead of wasting your time to try to configure your Wifi 6 adapter. I hope you can understand me now.

Edit:
Check the HP Zbook Fury or Lenovo P71 series.


----------



## astyle (Nov 11, 2021)

CoryG said:


> but I've heard you can bans for a lot of Steam games running them in Windows on a vSphere install so that would kind of defeat the purpose there


I think the bans would apply to having a truckload of connections from a single IP address... read their rules carefully.


CoryG said:


> but also need to get the video card more or less as a 1:1 translation into any virtualized layers.


Laptops, even gaming-grade stuff, are not the best for virtualizing. Also, for a VM, you'd have to allow it to have access to a portion of your hardware resources. This directly leads to the question of whether it makes more sense to buy two machines with n-level specs or one machine with 2n-level specs, because in either case, you'll blow about the same amount of money.


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Nov 12, 2021)

I found the wiki [ freebsd, laptop pages] has info on memory size [ I'd prefer 16G not 8G ] to be scant for most of  the most recent year(s) entries which are also scant... maybe someone with such a  laptop could start a " your laptop specs with at least 16G memory"... poll thread.


----------



## astyle (Nov 12, 2021)

FreeBSD on laptops has historically been a bit of a challenge... Based on info I glean from the Internet (Mostly comments on these forums), I'd think the situation is improving, but I'm still looking for a chance on my end of things to get my own hands dirty with this.


----------



## grahamperrin@ (Nov 13, 2021)

CoryG said:


> … what's the best high-end laptop for FreeBSD?



Whatever you veer towards, be sure to check that FreeBSD 13.0-RELEASE will boot. 



CoryG said:


> AMD preferred for obvious reasons.



Sorry, it's not obvious to me.


----------



## CoryG (Nov 16, 2021)

astyle said:


> I think the bans would apply to having a truckload of connections from a single IP address... read their rules carefully.
> 
> Laptops, even gaming-grade stuff, are not the best for virtualizing. Also, for a VM, you'd have to allow it to have access to a portion of your hardware resources. This directly leads to the question of whether it makes more sense to buy two machines with n-level specs or one machine with 2n-level specs, because in either case, you'll blow about the same amount of money.


If you were actually virtualizing multiple boxes at once sure, but my use case is more switching between OS's without wanting to reboot and select at bios with that 2-3 minute hit to productivity each time.


----------



## CoryG (Nov 16, 2021)

grahamperrin said:


> Whatever you veer towards, be sure to check that FreeBSD 13.0-RELEASE will boot.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, it's not obvious to me.


Intel pioneered backdoored chips, so it stands to reason that even if AMD has backdoors in theirs, Intel's are the most advanced and hard to subvert backdoors.


----------



## astyle (Nov 16, 2021)

CoryG said:


> If you were actually virtualizing multiple boxes at once sure, but my use case is more switching between OS's without wanting to reboot and select at bios with that 2-3 minute hit to productivity each time.


If you want to switch between OS'es without rebooting, then virtualization is the way to go. But, laptops come at best with 17-inch screens.  For productive use of a VM, you do need more screen real estate than that. One way around that is to invest in a couple 32-inch monitors that you can connect to your laptop as external displays. It's not impossible to get external displays going under FreeBSD, but getting them to behave predictably is usually a pain.


----------



## grahamperrin@ (Nov 17, 2021)

astyle said:


> … external displays … getting them to behave predictably is usually a pain.



I should describe behaviours as _nearly_ always predictable – and not difficult to achieve – with this combination:

graphics/drm-current-kmod
KDE Plasma
X.Org
FreeBSD 14.0-CURRENT
AMD Thames [Radeon HD 7550M/7570M/7650M]
HP EliteBook 8570p with two 2012 120W Advanced Docking Stations – one of which (at work) has two 1080p Philips displays to its left, the other (at home) has one to its left.
(Those HP products are not high end now, but they were well-specified when new.)

Until a few weeks ago, the dock at work had just one display, an _HP_ with the same resolution as the Philips, to its _right_. If I had previously (same day) used the 8570p at home, then (when waking from sleep) software would fail to detect the change of display – it would appear as if the _Philips_ was still to the _left_ :




– so I'd have to manually correct display preferences. More of a paper cut than a major bug.

The 8570p probed on 2021-11-13 <https://bsd-hardware.info/?probe=ea51e03be6> showed _graphics/drm-current-kmod 5.4.144.g20211012_ (i.e. *5.4*) from the FreeBSD repository *however* the DRM might have been superior (master). Re: <https://github.com/freebsd/drm-kmod/commits/master> I can't tell whether it would have been *5.5, 5.6 or 5.7*.

Today <https://bsd-hardware.info/?probe=822a2481bb> it's certainly _graphics/drm-current-kmod 5.4.144.g20211012_ from _unknown-repository_ (and I know that it was built and installed from source at the time of updating the OS).

graphics/drm-devel-kmod is usually *noticeably better* than drm-current-kmod with this Radeon HD.


----------

