# "Mass" storage (home server) seek advice



## Cristian (Sep 12, 2015)

Hi all

I am looking at building a home server for "mass" storage, and are wondering if anyone has some good advice for case, MB and or SATA controllers.

I do not have a fixed budget but am thinking 500 - 600$ for the case.
I don't know any good dedicated storage cases (without upgrading to something like Supermicro) so i am wondering an Obsedian series 900D with +2x 3.5" HDD expanders for a total of 15 hot-swap drives along with having 4x 2.5" internal mounts (thinking for SSD's).

I am hoping for some suggestions as to what MB and Sata controller would satisfy up to a 19 drive build since this is not my strong side.

For filesystem I want to use FreeBSD with ZFS.

The build is not meant for warp I/O speed, but capacity. I intend to run Samba with CIFS and have it as a storage for home pictures, movies, work related files and git.

I intend to have the drives in a mix of mirrors and RAID-Z as needed.

Thanks on advance.
Kind regards


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## Oko (Sep 13, 2015)

$500-$600 is not enough for quality build.

I like to put OS on something like this

http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-MTS400-Solid-State-TS64GMTS400/dp/B00KLTPSKM/ref=sr_1_2?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1442100235&sr=1-2&keywords=M.2&refinements=p_n_feature_three_browse-bin:6797516011

Typically server grade motherboard comes without M.2 connector so you will need something like this

http://www.addonics.com/products/ad2m2s-px4.php

If the motherboard BIOS supports PCIe boot you will use that if not you will use SATA connector. In any case your slowest expected speed is over 600 MB/s.

Intel Atom motherboards will be sufficient. Mini ITX is probably what you want. You have to make sure that the motherboard supports ECC RAM and I would put at least 16 GB of ECC RAM but you could probably get a way with something like

http://www.amazon.com/Super-Micro-SUPERMICRO-MBD-X9SBAA-F-O-Motherboard/dp/B00HKN4LR8/ref=sr_1_18?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1442101108&sr=1-18&keywords=intel+atom&refinements=p_n_feature_six_browse-bin:2057509011,p_n_feature_seven_browse-bin:5657494011,p_n_feature_keywords_browse-bin:5779375011,p_89:Supermicro


You need 8 GB of ECC RAM for that.


You will get best value for the money buying 4TB HDD. If 4TB is enough storage space I would do just ZFS mirror.
Two 4TB HDD will cost you easily over $250

http://www.amazon.com/WD40EZRX-West...e=UTF8&qid=1442101592&sr=1-1&keywords=4TB+HDD


Finally it would be a shame to put all that nice hardware in to an ugly box. This looks nice for example

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...yMark=False&IsFeedbackTab=true#scrollFullInfo

Anyhow you will probably be able to save $10-20 on the case and maybe find mobo under $200. Other than that it is what it is.

P.S. I have similar servers in my lab except that they are RACK mount. They cost about $900 when I buy them pre-build from Supermicro with my discounts and I use them as Jail hosts. I have three of those right now. Mine come with quad Intel controller. Make sure you have 1 Gigabit network switch (you can get nice unmanaged HP procurve for under $100). You will be a happy camper.


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## diizzy (Sep 13, 2015)

It'll help a lot if you could tell were you live, if you're luck you can find something like this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/291140796467?rmvSB=true
//Danne


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## Cristian (Sep 13, 2015)

Awesome thanks for taking the time Oko and writing your reply.
The 500 - 600$ is for the case alone, I don't have any fixed budget for the entire build its more a "what seem reasonable for my use".

Thanks on the suggestion for the SSD drive on PCIe.

The case i listed in #1 costs around (here) 350$ and can host a total of 19 disks. Fifteen 3.5" + four 2.5".
I don't expect to fill the system out on day 1, but I expect to use like 10TB from the get go and than needing more storage later.

The Newegg case has (from what i can see) three 3.5" drive bays.

My home backbone network is a Cisco layer three managed gigabit switch.

Thanks for the reply diizzy //Danne
I like in Denmark, but frequently purchase items on Ebay and Amazon within and outside of the EU.
Awesome link, unfortunately the case only has three 3.5" drive bays.


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## protocelt (Sep 14, 2015)

If cost is flexible, why not order the entire server unit built to your specifications from a reputable company? iXsystems(US based company) seems to be popular among some FreeBSD users. You'd get the advantage of the hardware being tested, a warranty, and everything  would be guaranteed to work with FreeBSD. I don't know of any similar European companies off hand but I'm sure there are a few.


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## diizzy (Sep 15, 2015)

Motherboard: http://www.proshop.dk/Bundkort/ASUS-P9D-M-2426526.html
1 or 2 x IBM M1015 controllers (get these off eBay or similar, 90-100$ tops each)
Case: http://www.proshop.dk/Kabinet/Fractal-Design-Define-XL-R2-Black-2399873.html
If you want to expand drive bays...
http://fantec.de/produkte/serverpro...rodukt/details/artikel/1376_fantec_mr_sa2131/
http://fantec.de/produkte/serverpro...rodukt/details/artikel/1435_fantec_mr_sa1041/
CPU: http://www.proshop.dk/CPU/Intel-Core-i3-4370-HR-Box-2454754.html or http://www.proshop.dk/CPU/Intel-Xeon-E3-1231-V3-Box-2448739.html
RAM: http://www.proshop.dk/RAM/Kingston-ValueSRV-DDR3-1600-SC-8GB-2371347.html
PSU: (all will do more than fine, do not skimp on this...):
http://www.proshop.dk/Stroemforsyning/Seasonic-S12II-Bronze-520W-PSU-2224364.html
http://www.proshop.dk/Stroemforsyning/Seasonic-S12G-Gold-550W-PSU-2449127.html
http://www.proshop.dk/Stroemforsyning/EVGA-SuperNOVA-650-G2-650W-PSU-2517202.html
HDDs: Tosihiba DT01ACA***-series (cheap and they work great using the Intel controller and/or LSI cards such as the IBM one), Tosihiba 4TB/5TB

This should all work fine in FreeBSD 10.2 (at least) but I haven't tested it myself, drivers etc are in place and everything is Intel based except the controllers card which works fine using the mps driver.

As for the OS, a decent SSD will do just fine such as Crucial MX200-series, Intel 535, Micron M600, Plextor PX-M6S or PX-M6P-series. I'd advice you to avoid SSDs that that doesn't use Marvell or Intel controllers. Samsung Pro series are pretty good too but have bugs, I'd avoid the Evo drives given their poor history.

iXSystems use off the shelve products, assemble and test it (somewhat at least it seems). Supermicro is pretty common in the US (and somewhat overrated IMHO),  you'll be fine with Asus, MSI, Gigabyte server boards.

//Danne


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## protocelt (Sep 15, 2015)

I'd do my research before buying ASUS hardware. At least on the consumer side, some hardware works great with FreeBSD, while other hardware... not so much. I'm not familiar with ASUS' server products so can't comment on compatibility there.


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## Oko (Sep 15, 2015)

protocelt said:


> I'd do my research before buying ASUS hardware. At least on the consumer side, some hardware works great with FreeBSD, while other hardware... not so much. I'm not familiar with ASUS' server products so can't comment on compatibility there.


ASUS is getting better so for home use might be OK. On production servers it is another story. I personally use only Supermicro or TYAN.


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## diizzy (Sep 15, 2015)

Asus is fine heh
https://forums.freenas.org/index.php?threads/asus-p9d.18197/
This has been reported on other motherboards too so I'd guess it's related to 9.X given it uses a stock Intel XHCI controller.
//Danne


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## User23 (Sep 15, 2015)

Maybe interesting http://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-x10sdv-tln4f-review-platform/
I ordered one of these boards and it will hopefully arriving soon.


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## Oko (Sep 15, 2015)

User23 said:


> Maybe interesting http://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-x10sdv-tln4f-review-platform/
> I ordered one of these boards and it will hopefully arriving soon.


That shit looks supper cool. I just checked the price and I almost fall of my chair when I saw the price tag $1200 on Amazon here in U.S.


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## storvi_net (Sep 15, 2015)

I did exactly the same  - as well as checking the price and falling of my chair...


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## User23 (Sep 16, 2015)

Same here first time I saw the price 

I hope it is worth it. The reviews on anandtech and serverthehome looking good.
2x 10GBE, 2x 1GBE, 45W CPU with 8cores, 16threads together faster than a Xeon E3-1240v3 I hope.
Starting at around 1000,- € with taxes in germany.
1200,- $ should be to much i guess, except it is already in a case.


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## storvi_net (Sep 16, 2015)

Probably you can give feedback in a separate thread. Would be nice.

Regards
Markus


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## User23 (Sep 18, 2015)

done: https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/xeon-d-1540-on-sm-x10sdv-8c-tln4f.53263/


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## Wozzeck (Sep 25, 2015)

ZFS is horrible!

It consumes a lot of power and you need at less 8 GO AND a good processor, good controller. Before running toward the "fabulous miraculous extraordinary genious  ZFS" you should make some comparative tests before. Depending on the hardware you will choose UFS2 + gmirror + gjournal will give in some cases far better performances than ZFS. I have tried PC BSD on a little old computer with 4 GO... my god! 30% slower than a equivalent installation under FreeBSD + UFS2. Updating the system... a nightmare, incredible! I have thrown away the PC BSD installation disk by my window... thank you ZFS.


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## Oko (Sep 25, 2015)

Wozzeck said:


> ZFS is horrible !!!
> 
> It consumes a lot of power and you need at less 8 GO AND a good processor, good controller. Before running toward the "fabulous miraculous extraordinary genious  ZFS" you should make some comparative tests before.


Oh it can't be that bad That is like saying Boeing 747 because it can't land on our small community airport. Well it is not designed for small community airport. The same thing is with ZFS. It is designed for large data centers which operate 24/7 not your home computer.
I agree with your assessment that most home users have no business touching ZFS.



Wozzeck said:


> Depending on the hardware you will choose UFS2 + gmirror + gjournal will give in some cases far better performances than ZFS.



Do you know something about gjournal that we other mortals don't?
https://wiki.freebsd.org/gjournal



Wozzeck said:


> I have tried PC BSD on a little old computer with 4 GO... my god !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 30% slower than a equivalent installation under FreeBSD + UFS2. Updating the system... a nightmare, incredible !!!!!!!!!!! I have thrown away the PC BSD installation disk by my window... thank you ZFS.


You would have being better off taking  a long walk. The horrible performance of PC-BSD on typical PC hardware is well documented.


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## himay (Sep 29, 2015)

I'm running a 12-HDD (1 SSD for OS) server at present in an Antec 1200 case (12 5.25" bays). It would be pretty easy to expand the capacity to 20 drives with 4 of these 5-in-3 disk cages.

As far as SATA expansion goes, I opted for an Intel SASUC8I flash with the raid-free LSI firmware (supplies eight of the drives) while the other four drives are on the motherboard. The IBM Serveraid M1015 has also been recommended in a variety of other places for FreeBSD/NAS applications, and prices used to be pretty reasonable over eBay (when they showed up). Each could have been had for ~USD$120 back when I was looking, but I don't know what current prices are.

The Intel card has also served things fine so far. I can saturate the bonded dual-gigabit connection with 4-drive RAIDZ pools & asynchronous NFS, so I have no reason to complain at the card being slow.


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## User23 (Sep 30, 2015)

Wozzeck said:


> ZFS is horrible!
> 
> It consumes a lot of power and you need at less 8 GO AND a good processor, good controller. Before running toward the "fabulous miraculous extraordinary genious  ZFS" you should make some comparative tests before. Depending on the hardware you will choose UFS2 + gmirror + gjournal will give in some cases far better performances than ZFS. I have tried PC BSD on a little old computer with 4 GO... my god! 30% slower than a equivalent installation under FreeBSD + UFS2. Updating the system... a nightmare, incredible! I have thrown away the PC BSD installation disk by my window... thank you ZFS.



Emotions can't compensate a lack of knowledge! Make sure you really need the 40 tons truck before using it bringing one letter to the post office.


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## Wozzeck (Sep 30, 2015)

User23 said:


> Emotions can't compensate a lack of knowledge! Make sure you really need the 40 tons truck before using it bringing one letter to the post office.



Everybody speaks freely on this forum, everybody can be correct or not in his appreciation as far as nobody attacks personaly someone else. If you read the answer of Oko you will note that he does agree on some points, on old hardware ZFS don't work well and just remember that since you are not a professional, many people recycle very old hardware... so ZFS in many case don't work properly, but many people here are professionals who deal with big system, so sometimes they forget that they are facing simple guys with very basic hardware.

I was just pointing out an attitude of some geeks, of some FreeBSD groupies who are adopting ZFS or anything else as they would buy the last iphone, so without thinking and considering a solution according to a situation, a specific hardware.

I consider your message as an inacceptable and personal attack. I hope the moderation will appreciate. You have the right not to agree with me, so in this case follow the example of Oko who has answered point to point to my post without attacking me. We are just here to "discuss"

You have perhaps 425 votes , but you are probably x 425 more stupid than me because you don't respect the other.

I write 1000 lines if I want, this forum is FREE, do you understand ? Nobody is forced to read me. If I bother you, ignore me.

Be sure that I won't lose my time on this forum. I am not here too fight anyone I really don't care. I am a user of FreeBSD, but I am not a groupie who will say that all is perfect in FreeBSD. I try to help the other, but if I find too much arrogant people like you, OK I will ask the administrator to close my account... I really don't mind.


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## Juanitou (Sep 30, 2015)

You both, User23 and Wozzeck, please calm down now and stick to the subject of the thread.


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## User23 (Sep 30, 2015)

I think, if you know what hardware you have, what features you need, and what the price is to get these features, ZFS can't disappoint you. Nobody forced you to use ZFS, so why blaming it for being slow in your case? Because you didn't know before? 

You really wondering about a emotional answer on your emotional post?


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