# how operational is FreeBSD's ZFS compared to opensolaris



## eam1 (Jul 3, 2010)

I'm Using Opensolaris and I was thinking about using FreeBSD because it ported ZFS but i would like to know how operational is freebsd's zfs compared to opensolaris?


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## graudeejs (Jul 3, 2010)

FreeBSD use zpool v13 (v14 planned AFAIK)


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## crsd (Jul 3, 2010)

fs version is v3, pool version is v14 in HEAD and there are patches for v16 posted by Martin MatuÅ¡ka on current@.


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## wonslung (Jul 3, 2010)

If you have hardware support for solaris, I'd stick with it if you care about samba/cifs performance.

I switched from FreeBSD to OpenSolaris b134 (actually at the time i switched it was b130 )  and i get much better performance.  FreeBSD is nice because it works on hardware which solaris does not but in my opinion, if your hardware supports solaris, stick with it.  ZFS in solaris has more options.

BUT, this is relative to what you're using the machine for.

If it's just a NAS/Storage server, then what i say holds true, if it's something else then you might find FreeBSD's software support much more appealing.


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## vermaden (Jul 3, 2010)

wonslung said:
			
		

> I switched from FreeBSD to OpenSolaris b134 (actually at the time i switched it was b130 )  and i get much better performance.  FreeBSD is nice because it works on hardware which solaris does not but in my opinion, if your hardware supports solaris, stick with it.


I used OpenSolaris for some time and it was very sluggish compared to FreeBSD, but maybe You havent detailed what was fast and what was slow  



			
				wonslung said:
			
		

> ZFS in solaris has more options.


The differences that I know is that FreeBSD 8.0 uses ZFS version 14 while OpenSolaris uses version 22 (or 23) (with deduplication), and that You can have boot environments in OpenSolaris while not in FreeBSD, any others differences?


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## eam1 (Jul 4, 2010)

to everybody: I'm using opensolaris 2009.06 and I think this release uses ZFS pool version 14, same as FreeBSD 8.0 . I don't plan on stop using opensolaris but to also  add freebsd OS as one of the OS i use.


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## eam1 (Jul 4, 2010)

I decided to start the quest  installing FreeBSD with ZFS on a other system.  I began searching online for "Howto to install freebsd using ZFS" since this will be the first i will be doing this, I  few a howtos but i don't know if they really work or they are a dead end, I would like to know if these work or if you guys know of better ones?
http://rhyous.com/2009/12/01/how-to-install-freebsd-8-0-using-only-zfs-partitions/
http://wiki.freebsd.org/ZFSOnRoot
http://blogs.freebsdish.org/lulf/2008/12/16/setting-up-a-zfs-only-system/


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## hedgehog (Jul 4, 2010)

eam1 said:
			
		

> I decided to start the quest  installing FreeBSD with ZFS on a other system.  I began searching online for "Howto to install freebsd using ZFS" since this will be the first i will be doing this, I  few a howtos but i don't know if they really work or they are a dead end, I would like to know if these work or if you guys know of better ones?


I was using this guide to setup my system at desktop PC. it describes how to install freebsd on root using gpt instead of mbr. there are similar guides for raidz or mirror.

also, I've found an alternate installer (however, I didn't test it): 
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/svn-src-all/2010-June/025660.html


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## vermaden (Jul 4, 2010)

eam1 said:
			
		

> I would like to know if these work or if you guys know of better ones?



I use that method: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=12082


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## phoenix (Jul 4, 2010)

killasmurf86 said:
			
		

> FreeBSD use zpool v13 (v14 planned AFAIK)



ZFSv13 is in FreeBSD 7.2 and 8.0.
ZFSv14 is in FreeBSD 7.3 and 8.1.

Patches for ZFSv15 and ZFSv16 are available for testing with 8.1.

Work is ongoing to get ZFSv22+ into HEAD.


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## phoenix (Jul 4, 2010)

vermaden said:
			
		

> The differences that I know is that FreeBSD 8.0 uses ZFS version 14 while OpenSolaris uses version 22 (or 23) (with deduplication), and that You can have boot environments in OpenSolaris while not in FreeBSD, any others differences?



You can have managed boot environments in FreeBSD as well, as though support has not been integrated into the main source tree.

However, ZFS development happens on OSol, so you will get the best supported and most current ZFS installation using OSol.

You will miss out on GEOM, though, by using OSol.


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## eam1 (Jul 5, 2010)

I will review each of the howtos links that are posted here, thanks for the help and info. i'm a happy camper


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## vermaden (Jul 5, 2010)

phoenix said:
			
		

> You can have managed boot environments in FreeBSD as well, as though support has not been integrated into the main source tree.



Thanks, do You know if there are any 'works' to put this into HEAD and/or later MFC?


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## phoenix (Jul 5, 2010)

Unfortunately, no, I don't know if there are any plans to integrate it into HEAD.  There hasn't been much mention of it on the mailing lists since the initial "check it out" message.


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## vertexSymphony (Jul 6, 2010)

The full list of features per version is here (look at the left) -> http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Community+Group+zfs/15 

FreeBSD 8.0 && OpenSolaris 2009.6 -> ZFS v14 
OpenSolaris 134-dev -> ZFS v22


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## oliverh (Jul 6, 2010)

phoenix said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, no, I don't know if there are any plans to integrate it into HEAD.  There hasn't been much mention of it on the mailing lists since the initial "check it out" message.



They are testing v16 because it is faster than v15. Anything beyond that breaks the possibility to import older ZFS partitions, so you have to wait for FBSD 9.0 for real changes as far as I know.


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## wonslung (Jul 7, 2010)

vermaden said:
			
		

> I used OpenSolaris for some time and it was very sluggish compared to FreeBSD, but maybe You havent detailed what was fast and what was slow



Almost every aspect of the filesystem is faster on my hardware.  CIFS and NFS perform much better on my hardware.  I love ZFS in FreeBSD, dont' get me wrong, but my experience has been that for a storage based build (like a nas or file server) OpenSolaris ZFS performs better.

Of course, at the same time, I can use FreeBSD to get ZFS on hardware which solaris won't even run.  Building software on FreeBSD is a breeze, while building almost anything on solaris is a pain.



> The differences that I know is that FreeBSD 8.0 uses ZFS version 14 while OpenSolaris uses version 22 (or 23) (with deduplication), and that You can have boot environments in OpenSolaris while not in FreeBSD, any others differences?




Opensolaris has an in kernel CIFS module which allows you to share filesystems to windows hosts.  It's much more convenient than samba, and the ACL's (when set up correctly) work exactly as they would on windows machines.  This is an area where ZFS on OpenSolaris wins.

OpenSolaris has COMSTAR which allows you to do some cool stuff with iscsi and it also has the legacy "zfs shareiscsi"  I might be wrong, but does FreeBSD have this yet?

do any of the "zfs share" commands work on FreeBSD?  I'm not sure...sharenfs might work...i can't remember....


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## vermaden (Jul 7, 2010)

wonslung said:
			
		

> Almost every aspect of the filesystem is faster on my hardware.  CIFS and NFS perform much better on my hardware.  I love ZFS in FreeBSD, dont' get me wrong, but my experience has been that for a storage based build (like a nas or file server) OpenSolaris ZFS performs better.
> 
> Of course, at the same time, I can use FreeBSD to get ZFS on hardware which solaris won't even run.  Building software on FreeBSD is a breeze, while building almost anything on solaris is a pain.



I was thinking generally about Solaris/OpenSolaris performance, not strict filesystem related, IMHO FreeBSD needs some time for more tweaking towards ZFS, something like 9.0-RELEASE ;p

I also miss a 'core' OpenSolaris version, something minimal and slim like FreeBSD minimal install (base system + man pages + kernel), IMHO OpenSolaris should also add a minimal version that does not include full featured GNOME desktop, but a minimal core installation that can be easily expanded (and understud), since with all these SMF running/defined its not as that simple to separate GNOME/desktop ones with strict OpenSolaris services.



			
				wonslung said:
			
		

> Opensolaris has an in kernel CIFS module which allows you to share filesystems to windows hosts.  It's much more convenient than samba, and the ACL's (when set up correctly) work exactly as they would on windows machines.  This is an area where ZFS on OpenSolaris wins.


Yes, that is also very nice feature, maybe we will se a port of it into FreeBSD.



			
				wonslung said:
			
		

> OpenSolaris has COMSTAR which allows you to do some cool stuff with iscsi and it also has the legacy "zfs shareiscsi"  I might be wrong, but does FreeBSD have this yet?



FreeBSD definitely lacks features in that 'space' there is iSCSI initiator in the base but the target is only in the ports (but I have heard that it works well), but until there will be a 'defined' iSCSI target in the base, anything related to zfs iscsi/share would be useless on FreeBSD.

About 'space' I also think about lack of multipathing support.

It would be also nice to have something like COMSTAR in FreeBSD (another port?) ;p



			
				wonslung said:
			
		

> do any of the "zfs share" commands work on FreeBSD?  I'm not sure...sharenfs might work...i can't remember....


I do not used/needed that functionality, so I am not the best person to ask 


IMHO OpenSolaris still has the same problem, lack of third party application available as packages (or by pkgsrc or any other software repository).
Regards mate.


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## phoenix (Jul 7, 2010)

wonslung said:
			
		

> do any of the "zfs share" commands work on FreeBSD?  I'm not sure...sharenfs might work...i can't remember....



*sharenfs* works, although it's not perfect.  It just exports the contents of that property to a custom exports file which is loaded after /etc/exports.  It doesn't always pick up changes right away, though, requiring manual reloading of the mountd.


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## wonslung (Jul 8, 2010)

ahh, sounds hackish....would probably be better to use nfs the normal way then.


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## phoenix (Jul 8, 2010)

It really depends on how you want to access the NFS info.

If you want to keep all your ZFS properties in one place, then using sharenfs is handy, as it's just another ZFS property.

However, if you want to keep all your NFS info in one place (perhaps you are sharing non-ZFS filesystems as well), then doing it all manually in /etc/exports is nice.

Just don't expect an update to the sharenfs property to be immediately picked up.


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## sidh (Jul 13, 2010)

vermaden said:
			
		

> I also miss a 'core' OpenSolaris version, something minimal and slim like FreeBSD minimal install (base system + man pages + kernel), IMHO OpenSolaris should also add a minimal version that does not include full featured GNOME desktop, but a minimal core installation that can be easily expanded (and understud), since with all these SMF running/defined its not as that simple to separate GNOME/desktop ones with strict OpenSolaris services.



Hello, 

Maybe you're looking for something like EON , that would fit in a CF card ?


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## vermaden (Jul 13, 2010)

sidh said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> Maybe you're looking for something like EON , that would fit in a CF card ?



I was talking 'in general' not about seeking a NAS 'os/distribution', I would say that MilaX would be more usefll here, but still the problem with (very buggy and slow) IPS and lack of packaged software is the biggest OpenSolaris problem, not a specific OpenSolairs distribution releated, but also all this 'bloat' taht comes with 'defualt' OpenSolaris reminds me 'wanna be Ubuntu' too much.


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## wonslung (Jul 15, 2010)

vermaden said:
			
		

> I was talking 'in general' not about seeking a NAS 'os/distribution', I would say that MilaX would be more usefll here, but still the problem with (very buggy and slow) IPS and lack of packaged software is the biggest OpenSolaris problem, not a specific OpenSolairs distribution releated, but also all this 'bloat' taht comes with 'defualt' OpenSolaris reminds me 'wanna be Ubuntu' too much.




i agree with this.  Opensolaris isn't nearly as lean as FreeBSD and building software in Solaris is a total pain.

I like OpenSolaris just for a storage appliance/nas

If i had to run much more on it, it would be painful....though OpenSolaris zones are REALLY awesome...


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## alp (Jul 15, 2010)

vermaden said:
			
		

> About 'space' I also think about lack of multipathing support.


Basic multipathing support is here - look at geom_fox (4) man page...
However, it seems that there is no load balancing.


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## phoenix (Jul 15, 2010)

phoenix said:
			
		

> ZFSv13 is in FreeBSD 7.2 and 8.0.
> ZFSv14 is in FreeBSD 7.3 and 8.1.
> 
> Patches for ZFSv15 and ZFSv16 are available for testing with 8.1.
> ...



ZFSv15 has been committed to HEAD and will be MFC'd to 8-STABLE in two months.


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## chrcol (Jul 20, 2010)

phoenix said:
			
		

> ZFSv13 is in FreeBSD 7.2 and 8.0.
> ZFSv14 is in FreeBSD 7.3 and 8.1.
> 
> Patches for ZFSv15 and ZFSv16 are available for testing with 8.1.
> ...



where are these patches?

as I understand it the guy made patches for HEAD but made modded iso's for 8.1 not patches.


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## phoenix (Jul 20, 2010)

Search the freebsd-current mailing list for subject "[CFT] ZFS v15 patch (version 3)".  The very first post from Martin Matuska includes information on patching 8.1.

The ZFSv16 patches have been dropped.  And ZFSv15 has been committed to HEAD with an MFC date of Sept.


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