# Preferred E-mail client



## Alain De Vos (Oct 22, 2022)

What is you preferred E-mail client software ?


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## K5KGT (Oct 22, 2022)

Gmail on Chromium


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## shepper (Oct 22, 2022)

I use mutt/fetchmail/nmh/abook but would hesitate to recommend to a newbie - my configuration files have hours of work in them. Once a user gets Mutt/NeoMutt tuned up, they usually won't give it up without a fight.  For me, Mutt works  for pop3 (email archival) on my workstation and imap4 for my laptop.  Mutt handles #mh formats well and has good documentation to use with abook or an ldap server.

Sylpheed and its fork, Claws-Mail both use #mh format (each email is a file) for email storage.  Claws-Mail has a vcard plugin and a not-so-secure html plugin.  Importing *.ldif/*.csv addressbooks is easy in Sylpheed/Claws-Mail.

Alpine uses the mbox format where all emails are concatenated into a single file but is much easier to setup if you want a non-gui/keyboard driven client.  Supposedly, Alpine can read #mh formated emails but I have not found enough documentation to try it out.  Alpine has it's own address book, indicates that it can access both ldap address books and abook.

I use to recommend Sylpheed for newbies but it currently uses deprecated gtk2.  Sylpheed 3.9 is in beta
https://sylpheed.sraoss.jp/en/

Alpine for a quick to set up imap4 non-gui client.

I think squirrelmail and roundcube are webmail servers and in a slightly different category than mutt -> sylpheed


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## hunter0one (Oct 22, 2022)

I like Claws Mail. I've tried Sylpheed but Claws Mail feels like Sylpheed 2.0 (makes sense because its a fork). When I used TDE, I used Kmail since it integrates well with the environment.


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## scottro (Oct 22, 2022)

I used to use alpine, when it was pine, but switched to mutt over 20 years ago, (now using neomutt). It's not the simplest setup, but once done, it can handle just about everything.  
I have a page on it, so to spam my own stuff (no ads on the site--a tiny bit of javascript to show when page was last updated and if you block javascript you miss nothing) at https://srobb.net/mutt.html


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## Alain De Vos (Oct 22, 2022)

Nice tutorial. Thanks.


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## angry_vincent (Oct 22, 2022)

emacs + notmuch


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## fernandel (Oct 22, 2022)

scottro said:


> I used to use alpine, when it was pine, but switched to mutt over 20 years ago, (now using neomutt). It's not the simplest setup, but once done, it can handle just about everything.
> I have a page on it, so to spam my own stuff (no ads on the site--a tiny bit of javascript to show when page was last updated and if you block javascript you miss nothing) at https://srobb.net/mutt.html


I was pine user too but never alpine. I am claws-mail user.


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## mer (Oct 22, 2022)

claws-mail now, pine/alpine in the past.
Problem is that email is now no longer just text


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## hruodr (Oct 22, 2022)

For email I do not like to start GUI. There are few alternatives: alpine, gnus, mutt, heirloom mailx.

mutt is not my choice because of its poor imap support: To read a mail it downloads all the attachments.

I use alpine.


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## Alain De Vos (Oct 22, 2022)

I use neomutt with imap. It works good.
Here my config

```
set ssl_starttls=no
set ssl_force_tls=no
set smtp_url="smtp://127.0.0.1"
set smtp_pass=""
set smtp_authenticators=""
set imap_user="x@mail.ala"
set imap_pass="blabla"
set imap_authenticators="login"
set imap_check_subscribed
set folder=imap://127.0.0.1:143
set spoolfile="+INBOX"
```


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## hruodr (Oct 22, 2022)

Alain De Vos said:


> I use neomutt with imap. It works good.


Works good is not enough. 

When you open a mail with attachments, does it first only download the text or downloads text and attachments?

I think, most people that are happy with mutt for reading with imap, are also not aware of the problem, 
they consider normal that for reading an email with imap all attachments must be downloaded.


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## gpw928 (Oct 22, 2022)

I use fetchmail and elm (with MIME enhancements).  Been planning to "upgrade" to mutt for a decade or so...


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## Cthulhux (Oct 22, 2022)

aerc


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## Alain De Vos (Oct 22, 2022)

Strange aerc is not in packages, but aerc is in ports.


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## hardworkingnewbie (Oct 22, 2022)

In 95% of my time: Roundcube. For the rest there is Thunderbird or K9 Mail on my smartphone.


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## laurentis (Oct 22, 2022)

mu4e on emacs.


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## Cthulhux (Oct 22, 2022)

Alain De Vos said:


> Strange aerc is not in packages, but aerc is in ports.


Bug?


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## freezr (Oct 23, 2022)

Why is Thunderbird missing?


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## Alain De Vos (Oct 23, 2022)

Added


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## jmos (Oct 23, 2022)

Workstation: fetchmail & Claws Mail
Notebook: SeaMonkey Mail


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## meaw229a (Oct 23, 2022)

Why is Evolution missing?
Love it, use it for mail, calendar and notes on FreeBSD desktop.


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## tanis (Oct 23, 2022)

Work: alpine
Private: alpine & Claws Mail 

BTW anyone noticed this new alpine feature asking me every time if I want to preserve my IMAP credentials?! I don’t want that! How can I disable that!?


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## SirDice (Oct 24, 2022)

Alain De Vos said:


> Strange aerc is not in packages, but aerc is in ports.


net/dante fails to build, and this causes mail/aerc to get skipped.


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## Alain De Vos (Oct 24, 2022)

Dante builds fine and aerc also for me, build it yesterday [Using poudriere&quarterly]


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## SirDice (Oct 24, 2022)

Build gets killed due to "runaway process". 

```
checking read/send-side pipe system... =>> Killing runaway build after 7200 seconds with no output
```
http://beefy14.nyi.freebsd.org/data/131amd64-quarterly/ebf7e2fb86fe/logs/errors/dante-1.4.3.log (You need IPv6 to access this)





						Port detail - net/dante - FreeBSD pkg-fallout
					






					portsfallout.com


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## hruodr (Oct 24, 2022)

tanis said:


> BTW anyone noticed this new alpine feature asking me every time if I want to preserve my IMAP credentials?! I don’t want that! How can I disable that!?


Ask in

comp.mail.pine


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## subnetspider (Oct 25, 2022)

The tutanota client, as Tutanota does not support third Party mail clients


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## dnb (Oct 25, 2022)

I use mutt because it can be run directly on the mail server when I ssh in. Thus, the client works in the singular, no one from the outside has access to the imap and submission ports, the ports are custom and access from the outside is only allowed to port 25. The disadvantage, of course, is that my friends can't connect and I can’t see mail from a smartphone, but I don’t have a smartphone yet


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## kjpetrie (Oct 26, 2022)

I changed to Claws Mail a few years ago after being bitten by a Thunderbird bug which has remained unfixed for 14 years. Occasionally TB empties the contents of e-mails when copying or moving them into local folders, leaving no way to recover the lost messages. They are also deleted from the server at the same time. This critical bug is so random it has never been diagnosed, but I couldn't afford the loss so was forced to switch.


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## shepper (Oct 27, 2022)

dnb said:


> I use mutt because it can be run directly on the mail server when I ssh in. Thus, the client works in the singular, no one from the outside has access to the imap and submission ports, the ports are custom and access from the outside is only allowed to port 25. The disadvantage, of course, is that my friends can't connect and I can’t see mail from a smartphone, but I don’t have a smartphone yet


I don't know about iOS, but Android has some ssh clients.
F-droid search ssh

I have termbot installed on my Pixel 6A/GrapheneOS and was able to sftp into my workstation.


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## gpw928 (Oct 27, 2022)

dnb said:


> but I don’t have a smartphone yet


I have three perfectly good iPhones, all in mint condition.  Two are retired because they are no longer supported by Apple.  I take one of the old ones out when working on the farm alone, because I don't want to lose the good one, and any smart phone in Australia must be able to make emergency calls, regardless of whether it has a SIM or not.

The electronic waste Apple generates is disgusting.  But, consider also that Apple has Aus$10 billion revenue in Australia, and pays 1.2% of that in tax.  I suggest that most multinationals will not act ethically unless coerced.

Back on topic... Why anyone would want to read email on their phone is pretty much beyond me...


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## hruodr (Oct 27, 2022)

gpw928 said:


> Back on topic... Why anyone would want to read email on their phone is pretty much beyond me...


I am not a fan of smart phones, began very late to use them, but being able to read emails in them is one of
the few advantages for me of having one.


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## ralphbsz (Oct 27, 2022)

I was thinking about this question, and the answer is sort of shocking. On desktop machines, I now use only a single e-mail client, and that one rarely. It turns out that both my personal e-mail and my office e-mail have web-based interfaces, which are better than what e-mail clients give me.

On a Mac, I still use the MacOS built-in client to connect to my personal e-mail via IMAP (incoming) and SMTP (outgoing). I actually really like that, and it is the only one better than the web-based stuff.

On Android cell phones, I use the built-in gmail client (not just for gmail e-mail, but also for IMAP servers). Works OK but not great. On iOS cell phones, I use the built-in mail client for IMAP servers, and it also works OK but not great. I think with the limited screen real estate of a cell phone, there is no way to have a good e-mail system.

I have not used a CLI-based mail tool in about 10 years. I think the last one was alpine.

It's sort of amazing that the web has won.


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## Jose (Oct 27, 2022)

The Web is in real trouble now. Everybody wants "the app" by which they mean the phone app. Mobile Web is still a disaster and it shows.


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## Voltaire (Oct 27, 2022)

Claws Mail has always worked fine for me and it's fast too. 

Normally the (standard) theme looks a bit old-fashioned, but with my particular XFCE theme I've become really attached to how it looks overall.


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## shepper (Oct 27, 2022)

ralphbsz said:


> ---
> 
> On Android cell phones, I use the built-in gmail client (not just for gmail e-mail, but also for IMAP servers). Works OK but not great. On iOS cell phones, I use the built-in mail client for IMAP servers, and it also works OK but not great. I think with the limited screen real estate of a cell phone, there is no way to have a good e-mail system.
> 
> ---


I've degoogled my Android phone and tried both Fairmail and K-9 mail from the F-Droid repository.  Both have open source code and do not require any Google registration.  Both worked fine with IMAP from Charter/Spectrum's email server.  I went w/ K-9 because it was a little smaller memory wise.


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## Lamia (Oct 28, 2022)

shepper said:


> I went w/ K-9 because it was a little smaller memory wise.


I went from K9, BlueMail to FairMail because of SMImE, PGP (Pretty Good People), calender integration, DeepML, etc 

Edit: Changed to PGP


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## cy@ (Oct 28, 2022)

Other: exmh2 and nmh. Sometimes claws-mail (using MH style directory tree) when I'm feeling fancy.

Seriously though. And yes, like anything after I left the mainframe for UNIX, it has another story which is yet another TL;DR. I started out with DEC's DXmail an MH client. While under FreeBSD exmh2 was the best thing compatible (using MH directory trees) to DXmail. MH is gone but nmh, its rewrite, is here and exmh2 sits on top of it. claws-mail and sylpheed are fine but kinda quirky with signature blocks and a couple of other things because they try too hard to be "Outlook". They'd be better if they tried to be like "DXmail".

I've been off and on looking for DXmail source code on the 'net but all I can find are docs about how to use it. Too bad. I'd love to import it into the ports collection. It was probably one of the best, if not the best email client I'd ever used.


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## cy@ (Oct 28, 2022)

shepper said:


> I've degoogled my Android phone and tried both Fairmail and K-9 mail from the F-Droid repository.  Both have open source code and do not require any Google registration.  Both worked fine with IMAP from Charter/Spectrum's email server.  I went w/ K-9 because it was a little smaller memory wise.



K-9 mail is great. Google's client stopped working with dovecot on my mail server after a google-play upgrade years ago. I'm glad it stopped working or I never would have had the impetus find this little gem.


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## Alain De Vos (Oct 28, 2022)

I couldn't do nmh without smtp login, i.e. login type none.
As my smtp server does not require a password or login.
Error:
post : problem initializing server ; RPLMY 530 5.7.0
Authentication required
send: message not delivered to anyone


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## Voltaire (Oct 28, 2022)

cy@ said:


> K-9 mail is great. Google's client stopped working with dovecot on my mail server after a google-play upgrade years ago. I'm glad it stopped working or I never would have had the impetus find this little gem.


The Android app itself is one of the mail apps with the lowest ratings.








						K-9 Mail - Apps on Google Play
					

K-9 Mail is a 100% free and open source email client for Android.




					play.google.com
				



3.1/5

There are a few other open source projects that all get higher ratings:








						FairEmail, privacy aware email - Apps on Google Play
					

Fully featured, privacy oriented email app




					play.google.com
				











						Proton Mail: Encrypted Email - Apps on Google Play
					

A trusted email app that uses end-to-end encryption and offers advanced security




					play.google.com
				











						p≡p - The pEp email client wit - Apps on Google Play
					

pEp (pretty Easy privacy) adds security on Gmail, iCloud or any IMAP account




					play.google.com
				











						Tutanota - Encrypted Email - Apps on Google Play
					

Encrypted email & calendar app - fast, secure, easy by design, and open source.




					play.google.com
				











						GitHub - itprojects/InboxPager: An E-mail client for the Android platform. Imap, pop, and smtp via SSL/TLS, with AES/PGP support.
					

An E-mail client for the Android platform. Imap, pop, and smtp via SSL/TLS, with AES/PGP support. - GitHub - itprojects/InboxPager: An E-mail client for the Android platform. Imap, pop, and smtp vi...




					github.com
				











						Criptext Secure Email - Apps on Google Play
					

Encrypted. Private. Simple.




					play.google.com
				











						SimpleLogin | Anti-spam - Apps on Google Play
					

Your anti-spam superhero




					play.google.com
				











						Type App mail - email app - Apps on Google Play
					

Make your email smarter




					play.google.com
				











						Open Mail - Apps on Google Play
					

Full-featured Open Source email client




					play.google.com
				











						SimpleEmail | F-Droid - Free and Open Source Android App Repository
					

Simple and minimalistic email app




					f-droid.org


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## bob2112 (Oct 28, 2022)

Voltaire said:


> Claws Mail ... and it's fast too.



It depends how you use it; a common criticism is that it blocks too much because it's not multi-threaded. When I used it with local Dovecot IMAP I didn't have much of a problem.


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## bob2112 (Oct 28, 2022)

K9 is going to merge with Thunderbird on mobile platforms. I doubt much of it will survive.









						Frequently Asked Questions: Thunderbird Mobile and K-9 Mail
					

An evolving list of frequently asked questions about Thunderbird on Android, and K-9 Mail joining the Thunderbird family.




					blog.thunderbird.net


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## freezr (Oct 28, 2022)

K9 is great!


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## Voltaire (Oct 28, 2022)

bob2112 said:


> It depends how you use it; a common criticism is that it blocks too much because it's not multi-threaded. When I used it with local Dovecot IMAP I didn't have much of a problem.


Redis is the fastest database and it's single threaded: https://medium.com/javarevisited/go-crazy-is-redis-single-threaded-or-multi-threaded-96fe8ff99ab9

I've been using Claws Mail for many years and you really can't complain about the performance. 

Claws Mail: What an email client SHOULD be like





						Claws Mail: What an email client SHOULD be like
					

Jack Wallen has been around the block with open source applications. And it's not often that one will sneak out of the woodwork and win him over as quickly as Claws Mail did. Can you be persuaded to give up your email client for the powerful, flexible, reliable Claws Mail?




					www.techrepublic.com
				




_Claws Mail has to be one of the fastest to open applications I have seen in the Linux operating system. In the time it takes Thunderbird to open I can open and already be composing a new email in Claws Mail. It really is that fast._


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## Alain De Vos (Oct 28, 2022)

When I do edit accounts in claws-mail it gives me a "segmentation fault".


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## Voltaire (Oct 28, 2022)

Alain De Vos said:


> When I do edit accounts in claws-mail it gives me a "segmentation fault".


Which action do you do more exactly? 
If I go to _configuration -> edit accounts_, the menu opens immediately and sequentially I can also edit the account. 
I'm on FreeBSD 12.3


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## shepper (Oct 28, 2022)

Voltaire said:


> The Android app itself is one of the mail apps with the lowest ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you are on GooglePlay - you are not Degoogled.


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## shepper (Oct 28, 2022)

Alain De Vos said:


> When I do edit accounts in claws-mail it gives me a "segmentation fault".


Start it from the command line - it should provide an error message.  Conversely, delete the configuration folder in your home directory and try again.  It should be ~/.claws*


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## shepper (Oct 28, 2022)

bob2112 said:


> K9 is going to merge with Thunderbird on mobile platforms. I doubt much of it will survive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If that happens, I will migrate to FairMail.


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## freezr (Oct 28, 2022)

shepper said:


> If that happens, I will migrate to FairMail.


Why?

Both are excellent OpenSource project, sometimes joining efforts is a good thing, isn't it?


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## Lamia (Oct 28, 2022)

I can't remember why I jumped ship from K9 to Bluemail and now Fairmail. I'm pleased with the growth even though I paid for the Pro version of it.


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## shepper (Oct 28, 2022)

freezr said:


> Why?
> 
> Both are excellent OpenSource project, sometimes joining efforts is a good thing, isn't it?


There are issues with html emails and I prefer text based emails.  Since Fairmail does not render the html code you can avoid the images and spoofed email links.


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## dnb (Oct 28, 2022)

shepper said:


> I don't know about iOS, but Android has some ssh clients.


I consider all these clients to be extremely insecure. The easiest way is to just log in from one FreeBSD machine to another (or look through the monitor locally).


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## hruodr (Oct 28, 2022)

What should an email client exactly do?

Before using pine/alpine I used the normal BSD mail program. I used metamail for reading attachments.
Pine/alpine became necessary when I needed to get my mail from an imap server and send with smtp
(instead of using sendmail as client). Of course there is the solution of getting mails with fetchmail
and continue using mail and metamail, but it is not comfortable at a time in which we receive
so much attachments and html mail. Then appeared new requirements: encryption, and unfortunately xoauth2.

I resist till today to use a gui program for reading email, also to use a mail client that gets all emails and
store them locally, then I preffer to use fetchmail or mbsync. I do not know a better alternative than alpine.

And if support of encryption were more comfortable in clients, then we were all using encryption and the
world would be different.

I think there is no really perfect mail program ...


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## rorgoroth (Oct 28, 2022)

The last time I used an email client, it was geary on linux. It was very simple and clean. Before that I used mutt in terminal for probably a decade.

I have 3 email accounts: protonmail, microsoft and google but the latter two forward to protonmail and I use the web interface on PC and app on phone/tablet.


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## Alain De Vos (Oct 28, 2022)

mutt,alpine,claws-mail,sylpheed are not bad. Recently i tried roundcube-webmail-php.


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## ralphbsz (Oct 28, 2022)

dnb said:


> I consider all these clients to be extremely insecure.


Please explain why. What attack vector are you worried about?


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## shepper (Oct 28, 2022)

hruodr said:


> I resist till today to use a gui program for reading email, also to use a mail client that gets all emails and
> store them locally, then I preffer to use fetchmail or mbsync. I do not know a better alternative than alpine.


I use fetchmail configured for pop3 retrieval and messages left on the server.  Fetchmail then writes them in my ~/Mail folder via nmh so each email is a separate file(#mh format).  Mutt has a macro <G> that invokes fetchmail.  I was looking at alpine but I could not figure out how to change the email format, in alpine, from mbox -> #mh.  How did you setup fetchmail w/ alpine?


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## hruodr (Oct 29, 2022)

shepper said:


> I was looking at alpine but I could not figure out how to change the email format, in alpine, from mbox -> #mh. How did you setup fetchmail w/ alpine?


I use alpine to read "online", do not use fetchmail. I used once fetchmail for downloading the mails in the unix mailbox
in mailbox format running it separately from the command line,  and then used alpine to read the unix mailbox.

Alpine does not support maildir, unless you apply a patch:






						Maildir patch for Alpine
					

A patch to give Alpine and UW-IMAP maildir format support. Available for the latest release of Alpine.



					alpineapp.email
				




I normaly download alpine and compile it, but never used maildir. If you use it, then perhaps bettter to use mbsync
than fetchmail.


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## dnb (Oct 29, 2022)

ralphbsz said:


> Please explain why. What attack vector are you worried about?


I would be agnostic about smartphone-related threats, expecting all sorts of meanness from them.

1 - there is some difference between the software environment of the smartphone and regular computer. Usually my FreeBSD workstation has some security settings (according to the Handbook). What's more, if I'm reading mail locally from a monitor that's connected to a mail server, I'm dealing with an even more meticulously configured system with jails for various services. Previously (before FreeBSD) I used just Gentoo with the hardened profile and the hardened kernel. Even in the case of a simple workstation, I have a fairly minimalistic environment, which consists of xmonad + Emacs, from which I do not expect any insidious trick . Finally, all of these programs are open source and have been built by myself on my binary host (it doesn't matter if it's FreeBSD or Gentoo).

In the case of a smartphone, we are dealing with a lot of programs, only some of which are open. All this big top is teeming in a system that is difficult to consider as trusted, ads can sometimes even be shown there 

2 - as a result of using mobile ISP, I can't properly filter IP access using ipfw for imap/submission ports.

3 - I guess mobile clients can't provide SSH connections using u2f, for example.

Finally, it's not about security, but using mutt (or some Emacs-based email client) is inconvenient from a smartphone screen. For example, mutt will use vi (or Emacs evil-mode) control method.


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## Voltaire (Oct 29, 2022)

dnb said:


> I would be agnostic about smartphone-related threats, expecting all sorts of meanness from them.
> 
> 1 - there is some difference between the software environment of the smartphone and regular computer ) Usually my FreeBSD workstation has some security settings (according to the Handbook). What's more, if I'm reading mail locally from a monitor that's connected to a mail server, I'm dealing with an even more meticulously configured system with jails for various services. Previously (before FreeBSD) I used just Gentoo with the hardened profile and the hardened kernel. Even in the case of a simple workstation, I have a fairly minimalistic environment, which consists of xmonad + Emacs, from which I do not expect any insidious trick . Finally, all of these programs are open source and have been built by myself on my binary host (it doesn't matter if it's FreeBSD or Gentoo).
> 
> ...


Something you haven't said about Mutt.
Technically, apps without a GUI are also more secure.



			https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb/classes/s22/l_complexity.pdf
		

_Security and Complexity
Complex code is buggy and hence insecure
We thus have four challenges
1 To the extent possible, eliminate complexity
2 Protecting the unavoidably complex (i.e., buggy) application code from
attackers
3 Presenting a simple interface to the world
4 Ensuring that our security code is simple_

A GUI is an additional thing that can be attacked, and makes security more complex. It is also one of the most attacked things.
This is why creating and managing a NAS via the command line is more secure than using TrueNAS or similar GUI software.
This also applies to email apps so you probably have a very secure setup right now.


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## Alain De Vos (Oct 29, 2022)

Meanwhile when I want xfce4 it pulls in samba & i have no choice.


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## Voltaire (Oct 29, 2022)

Alain De Vos said:


> Meanwhile when I want xfce4 it pulls in samba & i have no choice.


evince: 43.0
gvfs: 1.50.2_1
nautilus: 42.2
thunar: 4.16.11
xfce: 4.16
xfce4-desktop: 4.16.1

The above apps require it. But I agree, samba shouldn't be a hard requirement for any of those things.


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## bob2112 (Oct 30, 2022)

shepper said:


> I use fetchmail configured for pop3 retrieval and messages left on the server.  Fetchmail then writes them in my ~/Mail folder via nmh so each email is a separate file(#mh format).  Mutt has a macro <G> that invokes fetchmail.  I was looking at alpine but I could not figure out how to change the email format, in alpine, from mbox -> #mh.  How did you setup fetchmail w/ alpine?



My preference is to use a local dovecot IMAP server, that way you can use various clients without bothering about the underlying storage. 

I prefer getmail over fetchmail. fetchmail supports protocols that hardy anyone uses but has poor support for IMAP retrieval. The original getmail was dropped from ports with python2 , but there is a fork using python3.


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## shepper (Oct 30, 2022)

I had some issues with mutt's built in mh handling

```
set mbox_type = mh
```
but it has been awhile and I cannot recall the details or comment if it was improved upstream.

Mutt handles imap4 to my satisfaction.

So I use mutt/fetchmail/nmh on my work station where I archive/backup emails in $HOME and just setup mutt with imap4 on my portable devices.  That way I have a consistent email user interface.  I tried getmail and did not find it superior for my admittedly narrow use case.  Overall, I tend to lean toward apps coded in C over python.


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## Alain De Vos (Oct 30, 2022)

I find it easier setup not to use fetchmail or getmail. And leave all emails on the imap-server , and an MH-local-box just in case.
Setup of mutt,alpine,sylpheed,claws is straitforward & easy.


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## hruodr (Nov 6, 2022)

BTW. Do someone use mutt with gmail?


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## scottro (Nov 7, 2022)

Yes, but I use gmail as pop3 with getmail. If this is an issue with gmail's authentication that they started in May, my page covers it (to spam the page again,https://srobb.net/mutt.html ).  Just search for May 30 on the page where I (hopefully) clearly explain the workaround. 
If that's your question, and the explanation isn't as clear as I think it is, please let me know.


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## bob2112 (Nov 7, 2022)

scottro said:


> Yes, but I use gmail as pop3 with getmail.



I don't know if Google has changed this behavior, but the developer of getmail recommended  IMAP4 retrieval from gmail because it's not possible to implement POP3 retrieval reliably with Google's implementation. 






						getmail frequently-asked questions (FAQs) (version 5)
					

Frequently-asked questions about getmail version 5



					getmail6.org


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## hruodr (Nov 7, 2022)

scottro said:


> If that's your question, and the explanation isn't as clear as I think it is, please let me know.


The problem is xoauth2. Google does not allow any more to just log in with the password. And comes always
with new requirements.

I had always used alpine with gmail, online, without downloading, till now.


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## bob2112 (Nov 7, 2022)

hruodr said:


> The problem is xoauth2. Google does not allow any more to just log in with the password. And comes always
> with new requirements.



Unless something has changed they allow the use of app passwords, instead of xoauth2, if you configure 2FA.


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## scottro (Nov 7, 2022)

As  I mentioned on my page, that's all I did, use an app password which worked for getmail and msmtp


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## bob2112 (Nov 7, 2022)

Voltaire said:


> evince: 43.0, gvfs: 1.50.2_1, nautilus: 42.2, thunar: 4.16.11, xfce: 4.16, xfce4-desktop: 4.16.1
> 
> The above apps require it. But I agree, samba shouldn't be a hard requirement for any of those things.


I've a vague recollection that I have built Xfce4 without samba. I think the only hard dependency on samba there is from gvfs.

Thunar only needs gvfs  for the optional "Trash Panel Applet plugin" and the xfce ports depend on thunar. 

It looks like evince has an optional dependency on nautilus which in turn optionally depends on gfs.


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## Alain De Vos (Nov 7, 2022)

samba is by design a vulnerability. Yet i was unable to build xfce without inluding samba ...


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