# FreeBSD-13.1 installing mate-base does not install xorg



## byrnejb (May 25, 2022)

When I started to install `mate-base` on a new system I noticed that this package does not install `xorg`.  Is `xorg` not needed to run the mate desktop?


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## SirDice (May 25, 2022)

Mate doesn't depend on the full Xorg installation, only on certain libraries. So it doesn't pull in _everything_ you need to run X. That's why you have to install x11/xorg separately. You also have to make sure that X works.









						Chapter 5. The X Window System
					

This chapter describes how to install and configure Xorg on FreeBSD, which provides the open source X Window System used to provide a graphical environment




					docs.freebsd.org


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## byrnejb (May 26, 2022)

Besides Xorg X-11, what other windowing systems can `mate` use to create a graphical desktop environment on FreeBSD?


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## larshenrikoern (May 30, 2022)

None. Wayland is not fully working on freebsd yet. So mate depend on X11


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## jmos (May 30, 2022)

larshenrikoern said:


> None. Wayland is not fully working on freebsd yet. So mate depend on X11


As X11 has network capabilities: None X11 application should have a dependency on X11 - you can use another computers X Window System to display it. If you want X11, you always have to install it.


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## byrnejb (May 30, 2022)

I will recast the question:  Under what circumstance or for what purpose would one install mate and not install X11?


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## SirDice (May 30, 2022)

byrnejb said:


> Under what circumstance or for what purpose would one install mate and not install X11?


Remote X connection. That doesn't require a fully functional xorg-server on that host.

_Nothing_ in MATE depends on a _full_ Xorg installation. The various parts of Mate do have a dependency on several xorg _libraries_, so that's the only thing it actually _depends_ on.


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## zirias@ (May 30, 2022)

It's not that uncommon. I use a jail on my server as a remote desktop (like e.g. Windows terminal server, but FreeBSD with KDE instead). Of course it doesn't have a local X server installed, only Xvnc (a virtual X server accessible with VNC).

Any X client with a hard dependency on an X server would be broken.


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## sidetone (May 30, 2022)

It's better that way. That way, when something needs to be upgraded, it doesn't call for everything to be uninstalled and reinstalled. Some ways dependencies have been set up is complex, that pkg will try to uninstall and reinstall several times. A message saying that it may need xorg is better.


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## SirDice (May 30, 2022)

I think some clarification may be required. You may think "Mate" is one entity. A so-called "desktop environment". It's not. It's a collection of various applications and components, including a window manager,  that makes up what "Mate" is. Each of those components are 'clients' from the perspective of Xorg. It's the Xorg server that actually shows you the screen. The good ol' X11 protocol was made so it was possible for the application (the X client) to run on an entirely different machine from where the monitor and screen (the X server) actually was.

Nowadays it's obviously more common to have your application and (graphical) screen on the same computer. So this whole "remote" thing of X11 kind of gets in the way. That's the 'problem' Wayland, for example, tries to solve.


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## grahamperrin@ (May 31, 2022)

sidetone said:


> … A message saying that it may need xorg …



I think there should (also) be a hint for GNOME, yes? 









						The FreeBSD GNOME Project
					

FreeBSD is an operating system used to power modern servers, desktops, and embedded platforms.




					www.freebsd.org


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## sidetone (May 31, 2022)

Perhaps all windowmanagers and desktop environments.


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## larshenrikoern (May 31, 2022)

jmos said:


> As X11 has network capabilities: None X11 application should have a dependency on X11 - you can use another computers X Window System to display it. If you want X11, you always have to install it


What I mean is that mate depends at X11 (or another x implementation), not meant as a build dependency, but to be usefull. If X is running on the local machine or remote is not important. It is still X


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## grahamperrin@ (Jun 1, 2022)

sidetone said:


> Perhaps all windowmanagers and desktop environments.



Thanks. <https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=262873#c2> for The FreeBSD GNOME Project (page and sidebar), which includes MATE and Cinnamon.

Postscript: <https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=262873#c3> GNOME defaults to using Wayland.


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