# Is BSD a solid choice for everyday use & learning *nix?



## Pigeon (Aug 7, 2018)

Hey everyone,

Sorry in advance for asking this question, I'm sure it gets asked a lot. So a couple of weeks ago on humble bundle there was a bundle of Linux-related books. One of the books in the bundle that caught my eye was a couple of books on OpenBSD & it's firewall (pf, I believe it's called). I had never heard of BSD, but from what I read on http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01, BSD sounds like an operating system I would like to install on my laptop.

Before I commit, however, I thought I would ask a few questions. Firstly, I will be installing FreeBSD on my laptop (ThinkPad T430) which I will using mostly for university work (lotta programming, system diagrams, and reports). Is FreeBSD (or another BSD) a good choice for my needs? Secondly, I was wondering if learning the ins and outs of BSD would also apply to Linux (a lot of the books I have have information on how to learn Linux as well). While I would love to learn both, unfortunately I do not have time with uni. Any insight you could give would be greatly appreciated.


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## SirDice (Aug 7, 2018)

If you don't have experience with FreeBSD then I wouldn't recommend it for daily use. FreeBSD is somewhat unforgiving and sometime requires a bit of fiddling to get things working the right way. This is not a problem if you're experienced but will become problematic if you don't know how things work.

But by all means give it a go, try it out. All I would suggest is to try it in a VM first, something like VirtualBox works really well. That way you can play around, inevitably break things, learn from those mistakes and get some experience. All without destroying your current, working, desktop.


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## Pigeon (Aug 7, 2018)

SirDice said:


> If you don't have experience with FreeBSD then I wouldn't recommend it for daily use. FreeBSD is somewhat unforgiving and sometime requires a bit of fiddling to get things working the right way. This is not a problem if you're experienced but will become problematic if you don't know how things work.
> 
> But by all means give it a go, try it out. All I would suggest is to try it in a VM first, something like VirtualBox works really well. That way you can play around, inevitably break things, learn from those mistakes and get some experience. All without destroying your current, working, desktop.


Hey SirDice, thanks for the timely reply! I should of clarified in my original post. I am currently running Gentoo on this laptop, so I am not completely green. Though I am by no means a pro and still have a lot to learn about the *nix world. I have heard that freeBSD was a lot more forgiving compared to Linux distros like Gentoo & Arch?


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## SirDice (Aug 7, 2018)

Pigeon said:


> I have heard that freeBSD was a lot more forgiving compared to Linux distros like Gentoo & Arch?


Yes and no. With most Linux distributions everything you install is pretty much pre-configured to work. With FreeBSD you almost always have to modify configuration files in order to get things working. This can be both a blessing and a bane.


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## balanga (Aug 7, 2018)

Pigeon said:


> Hey SirDice, thanks for the timely reply! I should of clarified in my original post. I am currently running Gentoo on this laptop, so I am not completely green. Though I am by no means a pro and still have a lot to learn about the *nix world. I have heard that freeBSD was a lot more forgiving compared to Linux distros like Gentoo & Arch?



The problem with Linux is that it is simply a kernel and then it is wrapped up in 1000 different flavours called distributions  each with their own set of applications, file structure and packet management system so that what goes on one flavour of Linux may not necessarily apply to another, whereas FreeBSD (I'm not familiar with other *BSD's) is a complete operating system. Out of the box it does not come with a GUI, but you can add your own and they are very similar to the GUIs you get on Linux. Also there are around 30,000 applications available which you can either install or build for yourself from a single repository. If you just want to learn Unix, then install FreeBSD. You won't be sorry. Also, you will get a great deal of help on this forum if you get stuck.


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## drhowarddrfine (Aug 7, 2018)

For learning UNIX, yes. FreeBSD's origins began with ATT UNIX and once contained original UNIX code. The philosophy of FreeBSD is the UNIX philosophy, overall. Linux has no such origins or philosophy but most everything you learn on FreeBSD will work on Linux, too.


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## ShelLuser (Aug 7, 2018)

Pigeon said:


> I should of clarified in my original post. I am currently running Gentoo on this laptop, so I am not completely green.


You are where FreeBSD is concerned.

Please keep in mind that FreeBSD and Linux hardly have anything in common. At most they're both a command line based operating system, and both can be considered "Unix-like". But that's also where the similarities end.

Both use different tools, different commands and different environments to get the job done. The difference between these environments is a lot more than those between Linux distributions.


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## xtremae (Aug 7, 2018)

Pigeon said:


> BSD sounds like an operating system I would like to install on my laptop.





Pigeon said:


> I will be installing FreeBSD on my laptop (ThinkPad T430) which I will using mostly for university work





Pigeon said:


> unfortunately I do not have time with uni.



If you manage to allocate enough time for university homework and installing, configuring, maintaining, etc *BSD, then go for it.



Pigeon said:


> I was wondering if learning the ins and outs of BSD would also apply to Linux


No.


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## romanaOne (Aug 7, 2018)

You could always just get a second hard drive for just FreeBSD.  I don't have any T-series thinkpads, but swapping hard drives is a breeze on Thinkpad X201. You don't even have to open the bottom; there's a hatch on the side held on by one screw.

You could also replace the optical drive with a caddy containing a second hard drive.  Then you can have Gentoo and FreeBSD.  (I'm not even considering dual booting anymore because this hardware is cheap these days.)

Or just get another Thinkpad just for BSD experiments: 2010-2013 models are pretty cheap.


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## Crivens (Aug 7, 2018)

On the other side... when you want to learn *NIX, is Linux a viable teaching instrument? Once upon a time it was, but now? You learn to handle your distro, what others do is sometimes completely different.

Just sayin'..


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## rufwoof (Aug 7, 2018)

OpenBSD comes pretty much configured out of the box. FreeBSD takes more reading/configuring. FreeBSD however might be the better for reports/diagrams, jails, zfs ... etc type additional (more extensive range of) software. Overall however I'd suggest going for Linux/Debian for the greater ease of finding things out and getting up/running faster to leave more time for your studies. And then perhaps running a BSD in a VM if/when needed.


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## vermaden (Aug 7, 2018)

Pigeon said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Sorry in advance for asking this question, I'm sure it gets asked a lot. So a couple of weeks ago on humble bundle there was a bundle of Linux-related books. One of the books in the bundle that caught my eye was a couple of books on OpenBSD & it's firewall (pf, I believe it's called). I had never heard of BSD, but from what I read on http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01, BSD sounds like an operating system I would like to install on my laptop.
> 
> Before I commit, however, I thought I would ask a few questions. Firstly, I will be installing FreeBSD on my laptop (ThinkPad T430) which I will using mostly for university work (lotta programming, system diagrams, and reports). Is FreeBSD (or another BSD) a good choice for my needs? Secondly, I was wondering if learning the ins and outs of BSD would also apply to Linux (a lot of the books I have have information on how to learn Linux as well). While I would love to learn both, unfortunately I do not have time with uni. Any insight you could give would be greatly appreciated.


T430 is one of the best choices for FreeBSD, you may check my guides/articles about _*FreeBSD Desktop*_ from here - https://vermaden.wordpress.com - I used both *30 ThinkPads (like T430) and *20 ThinkPads and they both worked great under FreeBSD.


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## Maxnix (Aug 7, 2018)

Pigeon said:


> I was wondering if learning the ins and outs of BSD would also apply to Linux


What BSDs, as purer Unices, will give you is the right forma mentis to adopt and use when relating to pretty every Unix-like OS, despite the differences among them.


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## drhowarddrfine (Aug 7, 2018)

Crivens Yep. Exactly.


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## Nicola Mingotti (Aug 7, 2018)

Briefly, my 5 euro cents to this discussion.


"FreeBSD Journal" of March/April 2018 has focused onto FreeBSD in Laptops.
IMHO, if you are using Linux Gentoo from a while you are ready to try *BSD. Also, you are ready to appreciate it!
I dislike fighting with drivers, my main desktop OS is FreeBSD since about 8 months, but I always run it into a VMWare Virtual Machine since my laptop is a Macbook Pro ~2012
When i need commercial software, read "M$ Office"  || CAD || 3D print => i use  OSX
BSD is great for learning Unix, read a few of FreeBSD man pages online and compare them with Linux man. In *BSD you learn from man pages mostly, not from blogs.
*BSD is a system, Linux is a kernel, e.g. "ls" is part of BSD, it is not part of Linux. ===> BSD is much much more ordered, a pleasure to study.
From a system administrator perspective you can recycle in Linux 90% of what you learn in BSD. If your focus is instead system programming at C level, then the story is different. I guess, i don't know much about this.

I tried a bit NetBSD many years ago, I used extensively OpenBSD about 2 years ago, and all the time since 8 months ago I am running FreeBSD. They are all good. They are quite different in aim. Their motto (as i remeber by heart) tells a bit of the story:

NetBSD : Of course it runs NetBSD  --- portability
OpenBSD : Secure by default   --- security
FreeBSD : The power to serve  --- power
FreeBSD has, as a bonus, this wonderful forum full of helpful nice people !


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## balanga (Aug 8, 2018)

Nicola Mingotti said:


> Briefly, my 5 euro cents to this discussion.
> FreeBSD has, as a bonus, this wonderful forum full of helpful nice people !


Exactly!

There is no one Linux forum which could provide the assistance that this forum provides, because your Linux problem could be specific to Debian, Arch, Red Hat, Slackware, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Suse, Slackware or one of the other thousands of packages  of applications bundled with the Linux kernel to create a distribution.


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## Beastie7 (Aug 8, 2018)

Pigeon said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Sorry in advance for asking this question, I'm sure it gets asked a lot. So a couple of weeks ago on humble bundle there was a bundle of Linux-related books. One of the books in the bundle that caught my eye was a couple of books on OpenBSD & it's firewall (pf, I believe it's called). I had never heard of BSD, but from what I read on http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01, BSD sounds like an operating system I would like to install on my laptop.
> 
> Before I commit, however, I thought I would ask a few questions. Firstly, I will be installing FreeBSD on my laptop (ThinkPad T430) which I will using mostly for university work (lotta programming, system diagrams, and reports). Is FreeBSD (or another BSD) a good choice for my needs? Secondly, I was wondering if learning the ins and outs of BSD would also apply to Linux (a lot of the books I have have information on how to learn Linux as well). While I would love to learn both, unfortunately I do not have time with uni. Any insight you could give would be greatly appreciated.



FreeBSD will address most, if not all of your use cases. I'd start off with reading the handbook, then give this presentation a watch. The other BSDs are a waste of time, IMO.

I think you'll enjoy the experience. Once the consistency, and coherent design is realized; you'll want more of it.


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## michael_hackson (Aug 11, 2018)

For every new user I can recommend installing FreeBSD on two computers simultaneously because then you always have a running backup for files and settings if something would go out in the woods and you need a reinstall.

In the beginning one can miss to backup files like /usr/local/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d, /boot/loader.conf and having easy access to them on other PC is time saving.

- - - - -
How I did the transition was to have at least one computer fully dedicated to learning FreeBSD and until I was feeling safe enough to migrate after a year I had my Win7 for daily usage.

If you want to commit directly I can advice you to be ready to give some time learning the OS.

- - - - -
Learning FreeBSD makes it easier to learn Linux but my personal opinion is that FreeBSD does things better. The first thing that comes in mind is the wireless configurations and the great use of /etc/rc.conf. 

As the others have stated in this thread ThinkPads are a great choice. I myself has had great success with Toshiba Satellite.


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## balanga (Aug 11, 2018)

michael_hackson said:


> As the others have stated in this thread ThinkPads are a great choice. I myself has had great success with Toshiba Satellite.



Just thought I'd mention that if you have a ThinkPad with a CD, it may be worth getting an  Ultrabay and stick in a second hard disk - 20GB should be fine to get started, then you won't need to struggle with getting, presumably, Windows to co-exist with FreeBSD, just set the BIOS boot order to boot from Ultrabay first.


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## mfaridi (Aug 22, 2018)

I learn many things from FreeBSD and OpenBSD. after you use BSD and start to use Linux, you can understand Linux is not good OS for Fun and learning.


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