# FreeBSD current  (12) on iMac Pro 27 2018/2019



## killbiitch (Apr 23, 2019)

Hello dear community, so long time I did not post and even read a thread .

Nobody still doen’t speak french I guess?

No problem, I’m starting to be used but I beg your pardon  for all my possible faults, my bad English and sometimes familiar langage.

Well, concerning the reason for which I’m here and ask for your help is not very “ordinary” as you can read it in the title of the thread.
And I swear all the gods and demons of google and its algorithmic friends I haven’t found nothing about it... I searches around other forums too (here too) but found nothing.

You should think it’s a weird title but please don’t judge me or troll me. I assume that I used to like Mac’s computer until 2013 and Mac OS X (until version “Mac OS X Lion”... I still like but a lot less since latest Apple computer and since new sotwares.)

But love with computer, especially Apple computers,  is not a fair affair and I have to confess it: I still love Mac machines so much!!!
I like ergonomy, style, but these arguments are not the best very important I suppose for a BSD protector.
With Mac I like architecture, I like Darwin ), Xcode , and I especially prefer artistic software: for instance I prefer Aperture or Lightroom than Gimp or else as some free and open source software (I know it’s bad but not my faut just esthetic and ergonomic choice) or windows software .

Windows: I Never liked much windows but I had to use it via boot camp or anything else alternative because I’m gamer and I use windows to play.

In a non so far futur those apple bastard has idea to not allow windows or alternative OS (free, open source or not and thy’s not the problem with their ARM cheap.

It is maybe, problaly the last time for me  that I’m able to buy the Mac machine to play my windows (or else sometimes) of my dream (I Know it’s  horribly expensive) but I’m not very worried for windows 10 for most of the game except maybe “Dooms 2016” and “Witcher3 “ (my windows installation is only for games, my Mac OS installation only for artistic and and some rare  stuff).

But I still love so much FreeBSD (even if in  this forum, I am problaly a little shit newbie like I used to be several years before but the community is so kind with me, always trying to help me... I love them)

FreeBSD, I totally  love it for my security, compilation learning, stability, ZFS, real encryptions datas, learning ... and so much more! For instance I use my FreeBSD with KDE plasma deatoo for my multimedia (pics, movie, amarok for music) and i’m the King. This is is the best, it’s evolving all the time but ONLY WHEN IT’S STANLE, and ask engineers and users what they think about it.
I want to have the choice to compil my software for instance, my own options, choose licence .

- -  - I will continue to use Mac OS X (on 500 Go partition) for things I must do with (synchronised with iTunes or my apple  watch). Or sometimes because it’s for me the best artistic choice.

- - - II will continue windows (only for my games) on approximatively 200Go (I’m not an hardcore gamer).

But the most important for us to continue FreeBSD on my new IMac Pro (I think keep 300 Go for this partition and the food meS is that often FreeBSD softwares are not heavy)

Do you think it is possible and is someone has already tested this aventure and is everything was ok?

I speak about no impossible display about the (excellent ) rqdeon pro Vega 64x or less powerful ? How about games ? Natively on Mac Or on Windows or even “steam for freebsd” (provocation sorry ne use steal is built on frwwBSD). What about wine with Charing with Linux app? How about sound?
I don’t dare to ask to the WiFi but if Ethernet does the I envisage to sure CPL.
Some Intereat to change graphic card Radeon Vega pro 64x with nvidia or is it a big bullahits?

Most of macs (often olds unfortunately ) works great with FreeBSD?
Even if I wait some months or years (1 or 2 not 10 years) is there hope I could use my IMac PRO as normal computer with FreeBSD on it?


I’m sorry for all these hundreds of questions. I’m waiting my hero too before spending almost 6 months of work.

THANK  YOU SO MUCH EVERYBODY QND EVEN THOSE WHICH DON’T GOT TIME TO ANSWER OR DID’T HAS THE CAPACITY FOR IT.
Z
Please dear friends , pros, passionnanted and sometimes hackers I can’t waiting your advices or answers.

And sorry for this long long mail.

Friendship , John.

Mail: [_Mod: email address removed_]


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## killbiitch (Apr 25, 2019)

Nobody to help me ? :’(


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## trev (Apr 26, 2019)

Life was not meant to be easy, but using any of the new Apple Mac computers with T2 security chips which incorporate, among other things, the SSD controller, is definitely not going to be easy. No FreeBSD driver is available for the internal SSD which uses Apple's T2 security chip. That's the bad news.

The good news is that it can be done, but you have to use an external disk drive - preferably a Thunderbolt SSD, though SATA-USB SSDs also work, just slower. You also need to:

Use the macOS *Startup Security Utility* which can only be accessed by booting into macOS Recovery (so make sure you do this before attempting to install FreeBSD).
Change the "Secure Boot" option from the default "Full Security" to "No Security".
Change the "External Boot" option from the default "Disallow booting from external media" to "Allow booting from external media".
Alas, I cannot answer your other questions which are specific to the iMac Pro as I'm a Mac mini fan  . One suggestion though if you do persist, do not buy an iMac with a large internal SSD, instead spend the money on a large (and cheaper) external Thuderbolt connected SSD.


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## killbiitch (Apr 26, 2019)

trev said:


> Life was not meant to be easy, but using any of the new Apple Mac computers with T2 security chips which incorporate, among other things, the SSD controller, is definitely not going to be easy. No FreeBSD driver is available for the internal SSD which uses Apple's T2 security chip. That's the bad news.
> 
> The good news is that it can be done, but you have to use an external disk drive - preferably a Thunderbolt SSD, though SATA-USB SSDs also work, just slower. You also need to:
> 
> ...


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## killbiitch (Apr 26, 2019)

Thank you so much Trev for your answer it’s very kind and cool!
Do you think a day (maybe in some months) FreeBSD will be able to develop a driver for this? I ask because it’s possible to use windows on a mac (whatever Mac) so why not FreeBSD?
And yes of course I want a SSD not à fusion drive 
If so I will be able to wait a little the time to FreeBSD to get around this.

Thank you for your advice and yes why not use a SSD external drive but as you say it’s slower. And the question is how much slower?
Because last time (I don’t remember when exactly nor what OS I used at this moment) it was very slow. I’m afraid that even if it’s SSD thunderbolt it’s 50% slower or even worse . What do you think?

It’s a good solution you give me but not my favorite to use my principal OS on a external drive  (I know it’s very strange to have FreeBSD as principal OS on a mac).

Well,  I was talking about the IMac Pro in this thread. But what you think if I buy an IMac (not IMac « pro » but last model for good video card) or maybe a MacBook Pro or Mac Pro? Maybe there is not these T2 shit chip security on it?
Maybe this could work with these models? Do you know about this? 

If I’m not able to find a solution I think I’ll abandon Mac machines even if I lost some sofwares I love so much 

Most important for me is FreeBSD functional and a partition for play my (recent) windows games.

Thank you again Trev for your help , this community has no changed and is still kind and helpful.

Cheers and don’t hesitate if you have another advices . I’m a bit lost lol.
Thanks


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## trev (Apr 27, 2019)

> Do you think a day (maybe in some months) FreeBSD will be able to develop a driver for this?

I wouldn't hold my breath -- I think it is unlikely.

> Thank you for your advice and yes why not use a SSD external drive but as you say it’s slower.
>  And the question is how much slower? Because last time (I don’t remember when exactly nor 
> what OS I used at this moment) it was very slow. I’m afraid that even if it’s SSD thunderbolt 
> it’s 50% slower or even worse . What do you think?

Thunderbolt -> NVMe connected SSDs (40gbps) are just as fast, or faster, as the internal SSD. The Samsung 970 EVO NVMe can deliver up to 3,500MB/s of sequential read performance and up to 2,500MB/s of sequential write performance. 

Also bear in mind that generally the bigger the SSD the faster it is (check the specs). USB-C -> USB3.0 connected SSDs can do 5gbps (640MBps) but bear in mind that SSDs in SATA3 enclosures actually have a maximum practical transfer speed (vs theroretical) of 4.8Gb/s (600MB/s). 

My 2018 Mac mini running Mojave macOS has both an internal 256GB SSD which reads at 2,000MB/s and writes at 1,300MB/s (my wife's 1TB internal SSD reads at 2,000MB/s but writes at 2,600MB/s) while my externally connected (USB-C -> USB3.0) Samsung 860 EVO 1TB reads/writes at around 500MB/s. In actual usage, running Parallels VMs of Windows 10/7/XP/2000 off the external SSD, I don't notice a huge difference at all.

I would suggest that you consider running FreeBSD as a VM in Parallels on Mojave, either using the internal SSD (in which case you should consider a bigger internal SSD than 256GB) or using a larger external SSD.


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## killbiitch (May 1, 2019)

Thanks Trev. I think I will probably follow your advice even if my FreeBSD has risk to be lost with the nomenclature of the internal disk/external disk.
In my memories internal disk was like /dev/ada0s1 or ada0s2 or ada1 (insert slice) or ada what you want maybe adb for second internal drive.

If I Use with  your solution, I would like, if possible of course, that my internal disk that I will use for my Mac and windows are invisible because I swear you Sometimes I’m very stupid.

Is there a way since my FreeBSD installed from external SSD disk doesn’t not « see » my internal disk on my Mac. The goal is these disk are « invisible » for FreeBSD. I would like it does not see ada0s1 or adbs2 or whatever internet storage disk. I will be happy if it only see « da » witch is nomenclature for external drive .
Why not da0s1 or da0s2 or whatever but just the external drive. 
Because I swear God Trev I have attention deficit and even on thing so important like this I can like like an idiot/stupid/ridiculous.
Well now you know if it’s possible I buy it very very soon and will let you news about it.

And except for windows and my games (if it’s possible but I have doubt). I’m not à fan about virtualisation. I like to control every program, every process, even some composant or hardware from my OS.
Else I would virtualise windows and FBSD since my Mac and everything will be ok.. But no... that’s not my drug (french expression) and I don’t like it very much.

Don’t know what you think about i!


I’ve had a last question for you (sorry) . You talked me about virtualisation ans as 
I told to you I’m not so fan about it
.But I know for example tha’ts is perfectly possible to virtualise windows (lets say win7 for instance) with success since Mac, FBSD, linux, whatever..
But it’s not possible to play on a VMWare I guess? or maybe wits games which have 20 years. Am I wrong?


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## trev (May 5, 2019)

If FreeBSD is installed on an external disk/SSD, it cannot see the internal SSD, so you cannot harm the internal SSD 

I have used VMWare Fusion for macOS in the past, but I found Parallels was faster (but only lets you install on one machine vs five with VMWare Fusion if that's a consideration).

It is possible to play games in virtual Windows installations. As for 20 year old games, you might need to install a virtual DOS machine ;-) If they ever ran on Windows, you might need to install the version of Windows that they originally ran on. I don't play games, other than an old Windows 95 game of Bridge (a card game) and it works fine on Windows XP (I haven't tried later Windows versions).

Good luck!


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## killbiitch (May 8, 2019)

Dear Trev, I’e heard some bad news today . From guys who are computer specialist (as you also are I think) knowing Free SD and linux world and even a guy who works at Apple here in France.

And they told me even with an external drive it won’t boot on Linux or BSD.
The only OS « tolerated » by new IMacs is Windows but only via Mac OS X’s Bootcamp.

I don’t know even if rEFI would work...
Well it broke my mood when Iearnt that: no solution and a sacrifice to be made: forgot FreeBSD or Forgot OS X. It’s horrible!

And as you know except for exceptional task (as gaming) I don’t like to use virtual desktops and I don’t do hate (don’t like very much virtualization for what I do for my self of course).

Do you think soon or later an hacker will be able to kick the ass to this T2 chip (protection) and then we could use Linux, Solaris, OpenBSD or whatever just use the OS you want ON THE MACHINE YOU BOUGHT.
Do you think this could be possible?


If not maybe I will look the laptop perfect for FreeBSD as Carbon X1 6th gen.
If you find better laptop (with larger screen and better graphic card... at least 8Go VRAM) as compatible for FreeBSD don’t hesitate to tell me.

Or if you know a desktop machine « all in one » like in IMac, with large screen, good graphic card ) and which would be very well compatible with FreeBSD you can also tell me.
Or maybe I buy the IMac and I pray but it’s take a lot of risk.

Thank you for all. I must confess it will hard to sleep that night because I was hoping because of you to use FreeBSD since my external drive and those 2 guys told me it would not be possible .
At least it is not possible nowadays.

See you soon maybe,

Else thank you so much for all.


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## Phishfry (May 8, 2019)

killbiitch said:


> ON THE MACHINE YOU BOUGHT OVERPAID.


Fixed that for ya.


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## killbiitch (May 8, 2019)

Phishfry said:


> Fixed that for ya.


I Know .... you can’t control some addiction (opioids, smoking, games and of course Apple-addiction).
Be addict is expensive


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## trev (May 9, 2019)

> I’e heard some bad news today . From guys who are computer specialist (as you also are I think) knowing Free SD and linux world and even a guy who works at Apple here in France.
> 
> And they told me even with an external drive it won’t boot on Linux or BSD.



OK, I've tried FreeBSD 11.0 through 12.0 and it doesn't complete the boot - you get the daemon chooser, choose, get the BOOTING message and a couple of lines later after the kernel loads the monitor loses the signal  This may be related to the various ongoing 2018 Mac mini monitor issues (dual monitor issues, single monitors not waking from sleep, monitor connection (HDMI vs VGA vs DVI vs USB-C issues -- see the Apple Forum).

However, I have seen from a quick trawl on Google the _some_ versions of Linux do boot (external drive and after relaxing the security via the *Startup Security Utility* which can only be accessed by booting into macOS Recovery (CMD-R on startup).

I am, however, happily running a FreeBSD 12.0-Release VM instance on the 2018 Mac mini under Parallels off an external SSD.


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## killbiitch (May 12, 2019)

Ok thank you to all your answer to me and your help Trev.

Maybe I will try with the IMac Pro.
But what I don’t want to do is use a virtual machine. I want my FreeBSD on real hardware .

I was thinking about laptop and I’ve seen a lot of threads/discussions told that a laptop (the Thinkpad  X1 carbon 6th generation from Levono ) is just the perfect desktop to use FreeBSD « out of the box ». You can watch this testing here:





But this laptop is too weak for me in terms of graphics (for remember I am an occasionnel gamer) and mostly because for me 14 inches screen is to small. Then I saw a laptop very very close which is the Thinkpad X1 Extreme (with nvidia GTX 1050 Ti 4Go which is ok for me and a 15,4 inches screen).
The machine is very close but not exactly the same. It doesn’t figure in the « FreeBSD laptop compatibility list » as so many computer which aren’t on that list and make work FreeBSD very well.
If you have advice for this laptop « X1 Extreme », as you use to have some, I’ll take it .
Because I’m ready to buy this machine if I’m sure the compatibility with FreeBSD is perfect or almost perfect (« Good » would be not so bad).  Maybe you will able to help me with this new questions if not maybe I’ll make a new post for that .

See you and have a great Sunday !


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## trev (May 13, 2019)

Sorry, I haven't bought a Thinkpad since the days they were owned by IBM. I still have a running IBM iSeries 1400 Thinkpad (made in Taiwan) with Celeron 466MHz CPU that runs Windows 98 from 1999 - after 20 years the only issue is that the (new) battery does not charge.


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## killbiitch (May 14, 2019)

Hello Trev, hello everybody. 
Finally for my desktop I know finally by a guy I know who is an Apple engineer than T2 chip is not on the last IMacs but they figure on IMacs Pro.

Then it would be possible to run FreeBSD or Linux without problems. 

Moderator can mark this thread as solved.

Thank you dear community.
Next mission: find the perfect laptop for FreeBSD but it will be the next story


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## killbiitch (May 14, 2019)

Sorry, just a last question to Trev ore another friends who’re reacting here . So swear this is my last question, promise!
Now I know it is possible to install my FreeBSD on the IMac 2019 (non Pro). Nevertheless before I buy it I think about stuffs like following...

Is there somebody who knows hardware compatibility issues concerning FreeBSD on recent models of IMacs ?

Generally IMac were knows to make run well FreeBSD without major compatibility issues (excepting Maybe WiFi, damn it’s always a question of WiFi with BSD) .
But that concerning old machines (until 2012 or maybe 2013... don’t remember to have seen test most recently). I need to know if as on the « old » IMac FreeBSD would run well without important issues on a recent model (the latest to be the more precise).
If somebody has info I would be very grateful to him/here.

Good night !


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## trev (May 16, 2019)

The FreeBSD Wiki has an Apple Macbook section (out of date) and a Mac mini section (up to date more or less) but I've not seen anything about iMacs. Sorry.

Your best bet is to track down what hardware is used in the iMac and then search the FreeBSD world for reports of compatibility. My 2009 Mac mini server/workstation now has a FreeBSD supported Broadcom BCM4321 IEEE 802.11b/g wireless network driver - it took a while


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## killbiitch (May 16, 2019)

Ok Trev I asked you because I’ m not very good with hardware but I have to be more independent .

And you know what? If I’m not sure for 100% I will buy an Hackintosh and will put OS X on one drive, FreeBSD on another, and Windows 10 on the last.

I think more and more about this solution. I love OS X  even if it’s a golden jail but if I must choose between the two of them it will be FreeBSD !

With an Hackintosh I will be able to chose hardware will be able to make run OS X AND compatible with FreeBSD!

Thank you so much for your help buddy. And do not hesitate to tell me what you think about this solution.

Peace!


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## trev (May 17, 2019)

I suspect that the days of the HackIntosh are numbered due to the T2 security chip and its Bridge OS.

Anyway, my preference for Apple hardware with a T2 chip would be to run FreeBSD in a Parallels VM.  I've tested this on my 2018 Mac mini (i7, 256G SSD, 16G) with the FreeBSD-12.0 VM on an external USB3 Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SSD and have not noticed any performance issues.

In the meantime, I have a stack of older Mac minis from 2009 (2), 2010 (1), 2011 (1) and 2012 (2) to go through before I need to consider my options.


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## killbiitch (May 17, 2019)

Ok thanks Trev but why would Hackintosh would put T2 chips in their own machines? It’s not their goal to make incompatible their own hardware with OS X. I’m not sure to understand.
Excuse me if my question seems to be stupid but as the newb I am, sometimes I need more explanations.

you know my goal is use FeeeBSD on real harware Personally I do not like VM.
I could use a VM in FreeBSD for Windows (for some softwares or games I like and because I don’t want Windows as my main OS) but not the other way around.

I don’t understand this interest of people (not only you) for the virtual machines except it can be interesting to test a lot of OS or distros but not if you want to use a main OS.


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## trev (May 17, 2019)

> Ok thanks Trev but why would Hackintosh would put T2 chips in their own machines?

The day is coming when macOS will not run if it cannot talk to the T2. No HackIntosh will have a T2 

> I don’t understand this interest of people (not only you) for the virtual machines

If it's the only way to run the desired OS on the desired hardware, then there's little choice! It also means less hardware and is therefore cheaper.


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## killbiitch (May 17, 2019)

Hum ok and then we’ll be stucked in a old version with no updates....

I know but something bothering me that an OS does not communicate with the real machine (except if I don’t care about the OS... like Windows) . It’s like a métaphor about life: some people like to have friends on Facebook and other like to hang out with them ...


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## killbiitch (May 17, 2019)

PS: I’ve just though about something you told
« The day is coming when macOS will not run if it cannot talk to the T2. No HackIntosh will have a T2  »

Yes ok but if I buy for instance (my primary decision) an IMac 2019 today which is one of the last doesn’t have T2 chip? How will make people in the future with that computer ?

Apple can’t penalise them with a politic of « non-update punishment » or maybe in the future but in something like 10 years...


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## trev (May 18, 2019)

killbiitch said:


> but in something like 10 years...



Judging by past "forced" hardware obsolescence, the future is 7 years away. Of course, it could be earlier or later. Let's just say the writing is on the wall and the day is coming.


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