# Can install affect BIOS?



## weppnesp (Dec 12, 2010)

Hi all,

I have been wanting to install FreeBSD and today was the day, unfortunately it did not go so well. Right now the machine will not boot, it does not even let me get to the bios menu. It wirls the dvd drive if disk is in there, whirls the hard drive, starts the fan, then blinks a light four times on the caps lock, which according to HP (I have a HP DV5-2045dx pavillion, icore3, integrated graphics) means graphics controller failure, although according to anecdotes on the web it could also be a host of other things. Point being I cannot even get to BIOS even with a Windows or Linux or FreeBSD rescue CD nothing happens. The machine is virtually new.

My install. I was pushing it, I already have Windows 7 and Ubuntu (I have been a Linux user for 13 years), so I thought I was ready for FreeBSD. I freed up my last physical primary partition (6.25 GB). Partition one was MBR, Partition 2 was Windows 7. Partition 3 was an extended partition containing Ubuntu, and Partition 4 was to be free BSD.

The install seemed to go fine. I created 3 sub-partitions "/" 1.25 GB, "/tmp" .25 GB, and "/usr" 4.75 GB. I choose not to install swap, hoping to use the linux swap and recognising I have 4GB of Ram. I also choose not to install a bootloader, hoping to use GRUB, already installed.

It installed a the things I asked (I had a DVD 8.1 amd64 install disk) including all the ports packages. It told me congratulations! I was at a later menu, which was optional, it had about eight choices, including set the root password, it had choices to install Free BSD and third party software, etc. By accident I pressed return on the last choice which was something like "Save Krale (?) to floppy" It told me there was no floppy available, then text scrolled up the screen, it then crashed.

I was never asked anything about host name, users, ip address, wireless, etc. it crashed before that.

That was the last the computer boot up. It seems impossible that the failed installation would affect the Bios or the MBr (partition 1). Or am I wrong? 

Any thoughts?

Thanks in Advance,
Steve


----------



## wblock@ (Dec 12, 2010)

weppnesp said:
			
		

> My install. I was pushing it, I already have Windows 7 and Ubuntu (I have been a Linux user for 13 years), so I thought I was ready for FreeBSD. I freed up my last physical primary partition (6.25 GB). Partition one was MBR, Partition 2 was Windows 7. Partition 3 was an extended partition containing Ubuntu, and Partition 4 was to be free BSD.



This is... confused, or fragmentary.  What is an MBR partition?  Partition 3 is an extended partition?  Partitions 1-4 are primary.

Most likely the MBR is set to something that can't boot.  Press whatever random key the computer uses to show a boot device menu (maybe F12, maybe Esc, maybe F10 or F11) and you should be able to boot from CD.  This might need to be enabled in the BIOS first, which also uses some random key, possibly Esc on an HP.



> It seems impossible that the failed installation would affect the Bios or the MBr (partition 1).



The MBR is the first block of the disk, sometimes the first few blocks.  It's not a partition.  It's also called the boot block.  Yes, multi-boot modifications change it.  It really is something you should back up, but few people do.  Clonezilla backs it up automatically when you back up the whole disk.


----------



## Deleted member 9563 (Dec 12, 2010)

weppnesp said:
			
		

> . . . Right now the machine will not boot, it does not even let me get to the bios menu. It wirls the dvd drive if disk is in there, whirls the hard drive, starts the fan, then blinks a light four times on the caps lock, which according to HP (I have a HP DV5-2045dx pavillion, icore3, integrated graphics) means graphics controller failure, although according to anecdotes on the web it could also be a host of other things. Point being I cannot even get to BIOS even with a Windows or Linux or FreeBSD rescue CD nothing happens. The machine is virtually new. . . .



If you cannot get to the BIOS menu that has nothing to do with any OS, because that loads after the POST. If the memory has a fault, that would explain your problem. It is also possible that there is indeed a video error. The fact that this is a new machine lends support to this theory. Usually RAM fails in the first while after use - not later.


----------



## wblock@ (Dec 12, 2010)

Another diagnostic is whether the computer shows a logo or BIOS boot screen when power is applied.  That would show that the CPU, memory, video, and BIOS are at least partly functional.


----------



## Deleted member 9563 (Dec 12, 2010)

I forgot to suggest that booting from a Linux live disk (any one) is a simple way to prove that hardware is OK. If you can run it then everything works. If not, there is probably a hardware fault.


----------



## weppnesp (Dec 12, 2010)

Thanks OJ and wblock for your quick help!

To give more details, first the partitions, these new machines follow a EFI partition format when coming from the factory with Windows 7 on them. Mine had as first partition the EFI partition which contains the bootloader, device driver files, and system urilities (there is a good wiki page on the EFI format. My partition 2 is/was Windows 7, my partition 3 was Windows 7 restore. This was deleted and turned into Ubuntu Linux (logical partions /home, /, swap). The fourth partition was HP Tools, I moved these to a logical partition in Partition 3 with the linux stuff. It DID really annoy me that factory shipped these machines now use all 4 partitions. So primary partition 4 was dedicated to FreeBSD, it is of that type now with hopefully the operating system awaiting me!

I cannot get to the BIOS Menu. It does not get that far. I cannot get to a live CD (my BIOS is set to look at a CD first for boot possibilities). It crashes before a live CD is a possibility (I have tried Free BSD CD, USB stick, Windows 7 Restore, Ubuntu 10.10 live).

It must be either [1] Hardware issues [2] FreeBSD install has affected the system utilities in partition 1 (the EFI partition).

What I am wondering is [2] possible?

Thanks again,
Steve


It seems either


----------



## wblock@ (Dec 12, 2010)

weppnesp said:
			
		

> Thanks OJ and wblock for your quick help!
> 
> To give more details, first the partitions, these new machines follow a EFI partition format when coming from the factory with Windows 7 on them. Mine had as first partition the EFI partition which contains the bootloader, device driver files, and system urilities (there is a good wiki page on the EFI format. My partition 2 is/was Windows 7, my partition 3 was Windows 7 restore. This was deleted and turned into Ubuntu Linux (logical partions /home, /, swap). The fourth partition was HP Tools, I moved these to a logical partition in Partition 3 with the linux stuff. It DID really annoy me that factory shipped these machines now use all 4 partitions. So primary partition 4 was dedicated to FreeBSD, it is of that type now with hopefully the operating system awaiting me!



Probably GPT.  sysinstall(8) is old enough to where GPT should be a complete mystery to it, except for that "protective" MBR that makes it look like, well, an MBR.



> I cannot get to the BIOS Menu. It does not get that far. I cannot get to a live CD (my BIOS is set to look at a CD first for boot possibilities). It crashes before a live CD is a possibility (I have tried Free BSD CD, USB stick, Windows 7 Restore, Ubuntu 10.10 live).
> 
> It must be either [1] Hardware issues [2] FreeBSD install has affected the system utilities in partition 1 (the EFI partition).
> 
> What I am wondering is [2] possible?



Yes.  Doing an install of any operating system is (usually) going to change the boot block, and if the EFI stuff requires code from the disk, that could be broken.  The system might start and let you get to a config screen if the drive is disconnected.  If it loads the BIOS from disk (like Compaq did in the old, old, old days), you might have to use another computer to rebuild the disk.  If HP gives you a utility to do that.


----------



## Deleted member 9563 (Dec 12, 2010)

Keep in mind that the BIOS is loaded _before_ any drive is accessed. You can pull out all drives and still access the BIOS - I do it frequently. Regardless of whether or not there is a problem with your boot record, if you cannot access the BIOS, there is a hardware problem and any OS problem is irrelevant until that gets fixed.


----------



## wblock@ (Dec 12, 2010)

Sometimes the boot ROM is just a loader, enough to load the real setup code from disk.  That's become rare, but it appears that HP's EFI does use a disk partition.  The first Google result on "hp efi bios" is a PDF that describes it (I didn't read much, just enough to see that it has an "HP TOOLS" partition to go with the flash ROM).


----------



## weppnesp (Dec 13, 2010)

OJ said:
			
		

> Keep in mind that the BIOS is loaded _before_ any drive is accessed. You can pull out all drives and still access the BIOS - I do it frequently. Regardless of whether or not there is a problem with your boot record, if you cannot access the BIOS, there is a hardware problem and any OS problem is irrelevant until that gets fixed.



Thanks OJ again,

But my reading of this new EFI in HP machines is that the BIOS does not exist in the standard way, it has been replaced by "system utilities" on the first partition, it is no longer attached to the mother board. Is this correct?

If it is correct it seems illogical, to be able to corrupt a "BIOS" this easily. Sorry if I am ignorant, still learning ...

I am sending it in "under warranty", I'll see what HP says, I am not too hopeful on their response if they are able to access the hard drive!

Thanks again!
Steve


----------



## Deleted member 9563 (Dec 13, 2010)

I guess I'm getting old, since I haven't come across one of these systems yet.  I play mostly with older hardware, although my two new Intel motherboards don't have this EFI arrangement either. I just read up on it on Wikipedia. Thanks for the heads-up (and my apologies) *wblock*!

I can see EFI being a disaster, however I guess it does solve some problems too. It could also be a great tool for advancing vendor lock-in. 



> *weppnesp:* But my reading of this new EFI in HP machines is that the BIOS does not exist in the standard way, it has been replaced by "system utilities" on the first partition, it is no longer attached to the mother board. Is this correct?
> 
> If it is correct it seems illogical, to be able to corrupt a "BIOS" this easily. Sorry if I am ignorant, still learning ...
> 
> I am sending it in "under warranty", I'll see what HP says, I am not too hopeful on their response if they are able to access the hard drive!



I certainly hope the file is stored on some other device than the disk. Tying a specific disk to specific motherboads would greatly limit the usefulness of the hardware. That would be just plain wrong, IMHO. Anyway, I suppose there are several possibilities and I'm glad you still have warranty coverage. I'll be looking forward to hearing the outcome.


----------



## quinn (Mar 1, 2011)

hello weppnesp. I have the exact same problem. If you care to look at the forum installation my thread is 'Hosed my Compaq'.
I tried just installing 8.2 using the entire disk and have the same useless screen that you are seeing, without any ability to read from the cd drive or any 'f' key function. I called compaq they said it was an 'accidental' problem therefore not covered under warranty, my laptop is 2 weeks old - - aarghhh. Did you come up with a solution? Did they cover under warranty? If this is a new way to set up HDD and bios then the installation of 'other' oses is going to be a problem. Good luck and your response appreciated. Quinn


----------



## wblock@ (Mar 1, 2011)

If you can find an identical or very similar model, copying the MBR/GPT and the first partition to the target should work.  That will probably involve removing the target drive to connect it to the source computer with a USB adapter.

Web searches suggest that the computer should still boot if the EFI partition is missing, just without the EFI features.  It could be that the BIOS is looking for a certain bootblock or identifier.  It would be worth trying to boot from any of the restore CDs or DVDs, if any came with the computer.  Otherwise, some type of live CD or USB stick may still work and allow recovery.

HP thread with pointer to PDF on recreating EFI partitions


----------



## nakal (Mar 1, 2011)

When the BIOS tries to analyze the hard drive, it's really a PITA. Sometimes you cannot even get to the BIOS setup. I've had this problem already. Usually it's enough to disconnect the drive that causes the hick-ups and the PC should pass POST.

If it still doesn't, it's usually a hardware failure.


----------



## xibo (Mar 1, 2011)

I had the same issue with an intel dp35 mainboard last year (thanks to compiling gnu's fdisk with -O3). Like others suggested already, the solution is to disconnect the drive BEFORE booting. Your system should be able to boot your live CD or USB stick then, and once BIOS POST was done you can just connect the drive again so the booted operating system can detect it (SATA and SAS are plug and play).

Once the disk is online again, use the corresponding utilities of the booted system to rewrite the partition table and the MBR. You can probably mount all filesystems once the disk is online and do backups just in case...


----------



## quinn (Mar 3, 2011)

Response to xibo and weppnesp: Look at my thread [thread=22156]"Hosed My Compaq"[/thread]. Thanks to the help of forum members I got the machine from hell back. Used your suggestion xibo, and it worked with slight mod. I hope this helps you weppnesp. I know how damned aggravating these dumb boxes can be. Good luck and let me know if you need help, I feel like I've have lived the saying "See one, Do one, Teach one."

Quinn


----------

