# [Updated] Oracle Discontinues Free Java Time Zone Updates



## overmind (Jun 8, 2013)

http://developers.slashdot.org/story/13/06/08/051235/oracle-discontinues-free-java-time-zone-updates

"So, the interesting part is that Oracle has now decided to only release these updates if you have a Java SE support contract."

There's a FreeBSD package that is needed in order to install Java (JDK) on FreeBSD.


*Update*: As @jrm noticed, they've changed their mind. I thing they've upset a lot of people.

"[...] as soon as we learned that this affected JDK 7 users we initiated the process of making it available for JDK 7 again.'""

http://developers.slashdot.org/story/13/06/11/1549253/oracle-reinstates-free-time-zone-updates-for-java-7


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## tingo (Jun 8, 2013)

Hopefully, that means Java will fade into obscurity soon.


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## jozze (Jun 8, 2013)

Hah, Oracle; but despite all they have done, I am still a little surprised they decided to cut Java.


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## fonz (Jun 8, 2013)

tingo said:
			
		

> Hopefully, that means Java will fade into obscurity soon.


Don't tell me: you work for Oracle, right?


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## overmind (Jun 8, 2013)

I understand Sun had a lot of good stuff, lots of qualified engineers, but they did not know to may money out of their products. And Larry Ellison knows to do that (make money) so Oracle wants to get most of money out of Sun and they are also upset because they could not win over Google on Java but still... they could be more creative than that...


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## ShelLuser (Jun 8, 2013)

I guess the only thing surprising is that they waited so long. I have no love lost for Oracle, none what so ever, and quite frankly I think they're doing an awesome job in destroying the Sun legacy. Not saying that Sun was all that great; they did end up pretty badly after all, but I also think there's no denying that Sun really cared for its customers. Even if you weren't a big player (yet?).

But I think that every former Sun customer knows all too well what Oracle is all about: Money, and nothing else.

When Solaris/x86 came out and I finally got around to fully use it as a home server I eventually started to use it for my own company too. I eventually picked up a second hand Blade server (sparc) for testing and hobby purposes and upgraded the main server. And because I fully believed in both the product and company I decided to purchase a small subscription plan for all 3. It gave me full access to SunSolve (Sun website with information on almost every bit of (hard)ware they sold), periodic updates (normally you could only grab security updates, I could continue updating Solaris all the way..), news on upgrades and some discounts and well; a good feeling overall 

Oracle took over and first made it look as if nothing changed. Of course apart from a "small" increase in subscription prices. Where I approximately paid $120,- per server (CPU) Oracle wanted me to cough up approximately $320,- per CPU at first, which later got raised (according to some friends of mine) even higher.

Of course while providing much less service. SunSolve was gone without any replacements, entitlement to phone support got scrapped, eventually all you got was the option to download updates. For a much higher price.

So quite frankly in my opinion this was only a matter of time. And I also doubt it'll stop here, I think it's merely the beginning. After all; Oracle lost a lot of credibility with their latest Java exploit flaws, so they have to make up for that loss somehow. What better option than to raise prices?

But even so, news like this makes me sad. I actually enjoy(ed) and appreciate Java, still do. Even though we scrapped it entirely for company purposes (some in-house software) 'because'.

still..  Only last week did I install java/openjdk6 for fun and old-time sakes (and who knows; it could come in handy) and I'm quite pleased to keep a Java environment around without any Oracle license what-so-ever. Good times


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## tingo (Jun 9, 2013)

fonz said:
			
		

> Don't tell me: you work for Oracle, right?



No. I haven't worked for Oracle in the past either.


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## KNOStic (Jun 9, 2013)

overmind said:
			
		

> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/13/06/08/051235/oracle-discontinues-free-java-time-zone-updates
> 
> "So, the interesting part is that Oracle has now decided to only release these updates if you have a Java SE support contract."
> 
> There's a FreeBSD package that is needed in order to install Java (JDK) on FreeBSD.



From the slashdot article:



> I clearly hadn't read more than the first few lines of the help on Java TimeZone info or I could have found out that the answer was already there, without having to wait for it. As another poster pointed out IBM already provides free Java timezone updates.
> 
> http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/dst/jtzu.html
> 
> But more to the point, writing a tool that will grab those updates for yourself and storing it where you need it looks like a bash script or batch file candidate. Our brains are more than a match for Oracle's bean counters. Let's use them!



Sometimes you have to punt and give silly vendors the "you're number one!" finger.


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## zspider (Jun 9, 2013)

Good, I hated the process of getting the files needed for installing Java anyways. Whenever I did install it on Linux or FreeBSD, it never worked when I needed it to and it's become a constant source of security flaws.


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## ShelLuser (Jun 9, 2013)

gpatrick said:
			
		

> I blame Jonathon Schwartz for the demise of Sun Microsystems.  He sold his company to Sun and became the CEO in the process, but that certainly doesn't and didn't make him a great businessman. Buying MySQL for $1 billion was stupidity, and he had other ridiculous money losing projects too.


All too true, and wholeheartedly agreed. They made many weird business decisions which I never managed to fully understand. The MySQL acquisition is one thing, but what about the rather forced move to get Java officially recognized as an open source project?

Although I'm very happy right now that they did (so that you can enjoy Java without the "Oracle oppression" (personal opinion)), it still made little sense to me since you could already pick up the Java source code way before it was released under the GPL.



			
				gpatrick said:
			
		

> Another forum has a Solaris thread and last time I looked a while ago, last November was the last time anyone posted a Solaris question, and it used to be very active.  From this, I can only surmise that Solaris usage has dwindled.


Either that or people have fully adopted OpenSolaris, and have now moved onto OpenIndiana (the OpenSolaris 'fork'). When checking out their discussion mailinglist archives it seems to be pretty active.

Very depressing stuff for a former Solaris fanboy though :\  (I never really liked OpenSolaris).


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## gkontos (Jun 9, 2013)

gpatrick said:
			
		

> Honestly am not sure how Oracle is making money from Sun.  They got Solaris, Java and hardware.



Its a typical strategy to eliminate a potential competitor. They don't make direct money now. They make their money from selling database software and services and they only have to compete with Microsoft. 

They also make money from previous Solaris customers who pay annual fees. They also practically own Java which is a major component in their applications.

They will make money by better utilizing the hardware with their databases.


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## ShelLuser (Jun 10, 2013)

gkontos said:
			
		

> They also make money from previous Solaris customers who pay annual fees.


That is highly debatable I think. Although I had a basic subscription (and didn't keep track of the rest) my fee's got more than doubled. I honestly don't think anyone would agree with that "because", especially if you take the decreasing amount of servicing options into mind.

Of course there will always be environments which give in because they feel they don't have a choice, but I also think that many bailed out. Solaris was an awesome operating system in my opinion (I suppose it still is, but due to change of leadership my opinion changed.). But it has many competitors. Not merely 'popular' ones such as FreeBSD (for example). What to think about HP-UX?

The thing is; companies in general maybe stubborn, but they aren't stupid. When you have a subscription and your nominal fee's go up tenfold then you're going to evaluate the whole thing, it's a given. And at that point it can become very feasible to consider a major investment in order to move for something else.

Although it may cost you a lot of money when you look at the short term period, it most likely will save you a whole lot more when you look at the global (long term) picture. And that is what companies usually do.

Sure, they may have made money from Solaris subscriptions. But I'm quite convinced that by raising the prices in the way they did they effectively killed the entire market as well. Quite frankly I have serious doubts that Oracle cares for Solaris at all. Just look at how they treated the OpenSolaris project. A project which, when (ab)used right could have saved them a lot of development costs. Yet they decided to simply end the whole thing.



			
				gkontos said:
			
		

> They also practically own Java which is a major component in their applications.


Agreed, but they still treat it rather poorly. The recent developments around Java have really stained it in my opinion. When computer illiterates start worrying about "Java security" because its backdoors and exploits hit global media then something is going very wrong. Yet Oracle let all of that happen.



			
				gkontos said:
			
		

> They will make money by better utilizing the hardware with their databases.


I wouldn't be surprised one bit if in the end this is all they really care about.


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## GreenMeanie (Jun 10, 2013)

I have no problems using Oracle Linux


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## ShelLuser (Jun 10, 2013)

GreenMeanie said:
			
		

> I have no problems using Oracle Linux


You don't know half how funny that is, or maybe you do


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## overmind (Jun 10, 2013)

Big companies will go for (cheaper) x86 platforms with BSD or Linux so I don't see Solaris and Sun's hardware succeeding in the future.

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2013/06/07/ibm_hit_hard_in_uk_server_market_bloodbath/


> Those reliant on legacy platforms were hit the hardest as RISC, EPIC and CISC server hardware sales declined 71 per cent due to customers accelerating their migration to Intel-powered systems.


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## shepper (Jun 11, 2013)

Netcraft Web Server Survey

Sun servers have made up less than 1% of the market since May of 2008 - hard to imagine where they get any revenue.


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## throAU (Jun 11, 2013)

I would say I'm shocked and surprised, but this is ORACLE, so...


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## jrm@ (Jun 11, 2013)

In case anyone missed it, it looks like they caved: Oracle Reinstates Free Time-zone Updates for Java 7


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