# Unix-way? Nah, never heard of it!



## nekoexmachina (Oct 10, 2012)

systemd now got QR-code generator[1] and http-server[2] inside. 
[1]:
https://plus.google.com/115547683951727699051/posts/g1E6AxVKtyc
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Yby5d7CcSj0/UDKe0Hy1E4I/AAAAAAAACVY/D54WBgKGiYI/s651/sealing.png
[2]
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-September/006738.html


While this all still could be done less complex by just one thing: external log server..
WTF?


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## Crivens (Oct 10, 2012)

What the ${explicite}?

Ok, more popcorn. This is gonna be fun.

Aunt Edith tells me she sees your external log server and raises you a "chflags sappend"


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## kpedersen (Oct 10, 2012)

I hear the next release of systemd will write on your facebook wall every time you plug in a new device.


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## Lorem-Ipsum (Oct 10, 2012)

I switched my Arch box to systemd as the change was coming anyway. Sure it gives a much faster boot time but it's certainly not nice to work with.

The desktop may well be FreeBSD soon anyway.


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## NewGuy (Oct 10, 2012)

This move to binary log/protected log files is a terrible idea. Not only will it likely make parsing the logs harder, but it is a worse solution to a problem that has been solved several times already. To date we can send logs to a remote server, we can backup logs on a regular basis and the BSDs allow for append-only logs, making the deleting/altering issue virtually impossible.
systemd is an overly complicated solution to a problem which doesn't exist and I hope most distributions/projects realize that.


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## Crivens (Oct 10, 2012)

NewGuy said:
			
		

> This move to binary log/protected log files is a terrible idea. Not only will it likely make parsing the logs harder, but it is a worse solution to a problem that has been solved several times already.


Remember who we are talking of? INCO Nothing of this matters to HeWhoShallNotBeNamed.

Someone please trip him off to the possibility to modify the binary parsing tool to filter certain things out, as it is bound to be sitting in a place which is easier to hack as the machines which you may come to later. But HeWhoseSoftwareIShun would most likely not get the fine point, one point for which a touring award speech is written.
(also nice style of HIM, first starting name calling and creative interpretations of one commenter, then banning the same for being "personal". Way to go, mate!)



> systemd is an overly complicated solution to a problem which doesn't exist and I hope most distributions/projects realize that.



Your word in Odins Ear Canal!
But I fear that this will go on, because a system can't be really hip if it is simply sitting there crunching away the workloads and not complaining, not reminding you it is there. You do not feel important for being the user/admin/... of a micro wave, do you? Yes, almost any fool can use one, nothing special.

Ok, time for this grumpy old one to hit the horizontal idle positon.


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## Lorem-Ipsum (Oct 10, 2012)

Crivens said:
			
		

> <snip>But I fear that this will go on<snip>



It certainly seems that way. As consolekit and udev are both being absorbed into systemd's already bloated mass there doesn't seem to be an easy alternative, unless someone comes up with alternative programs or maintains a separate fork.

EDIT: Having said this, if you replace all the individual, separate programs and replace them all with systemd (and completely ignore the UNIX way) you do then have a more _simple_ system, in that everything is controlled by one entity. If that one entity is well written, well documented and does the job well, then in theory it could all end up working far better than chained programs.

Don't get me wrong, I understand that this has major drawbacks. I'm simply going to reserve my judgement on systemd until it becomes a bit more widely adopted, which lets face it seems inevitable.

Poettering's FOSDEM talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyMLi8QF6sw explains quite a bit about what exactly systemd does.

EDIT2: Just saw someone compare sysvinit vs systemd to vim vs emacs. I think that's actually a pretty good comparison.


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## throAU (Oct 11, 2012)

Ahhh Linux.  Condemned to reinvent available technology in the most obtuse and annoying way possible.


Given the state of the code on previous Lennart projects, I await the first exploits for systemd with mild amusement.


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## Crivens (Oct 11, 2012)

Lorem-Ipsum said:
			
		

> Don't get me wrong, I understand that this has major drawbacks. I'm simply going to reserve my judgement on systemd until it becomes a bit more widely adopted, which lets face it seems inevitable.


I am a scientist. It is part of the scientific process to toast any theory and any solution to the extreme and check if they can stand that heat. When it comes to things which run part of my life (as my computers are part of my life), I reserve the right to go 'stellar core' on such software. That is also one part of the reasons which made me ditch Liunx and use *BSD. Poettering can hack what he wants, but when it comes to acceptance testing, simply forcing it down everybodys throat and calling that 'widely adopted' will draw (at least my) resistance. One simply has to check the history of PulseAudio.

Long story short - I also reserve my judgement of this untill I a have tried it.
Checking the bases for his theory/programm/... upto now show no improvements sufficient to switch. But I also will include in the process of evaluation the means of distribution. Should one day Xorg (for the sake of an argument) develop a hard dependency on systemd, I do not care how good it is. Then it is out, along with Xorg (or whatever port has that dependency without a really _*really*_ good point).

That also goes for merging system startup, service control and logging into one single point of failure.

Disclaimer: I have not met Poettering, do not know him personally and can only judge him by his code and conduct in public forums and recordings. It is with this displayed part of his modus operandi and personality that I have a problem. A big one, I admit.


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