# UPS



## Geezer (Apr 22, 2021)

I am bit fed up with APC UPSs. 

They seem good to start with, but after a couple of battery changes, the battery life seems to shorten significantly. And then the APC distributor fiddles with it, charges good money and it is good again.

So will start using different brands. The only other imported brands where I am are Eaton, Cyberpower and Cleanline, and then there are a few local brands without much track record.

What UPSs do you use, and/or would recommend?


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## marcus123 (Apr 22, 2021)

I have ever used APC and Opti-UPS, both are good to me


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## sko (Apr 22, 2021)

We've switched to Powerwalker (VI 1500 - 3000 RT models) for exactly the same reason. Our last remaining APC grinds through batteries in ~2 year cycles, while the batteries in the Powerwalkers easily last 3-4 years (all on the same battery brand). We have an aftermarket-supplier for UPS batteries a few buildings down the road where we get our replacement batteries, and they also confirmed that APC UPS tend to be much harder on their batteries than other brands, but couldn't pin down why.
I doubt it is a "firmware thing" because the batteries we've pulled out of APCs were usually also physically 'dead' - i.e. most of them were visibly inflated and once even slightly molten around the terminals. The ones we've pulled out of Powerwalkers were reported as being too low in capacity or even defective, but never visibly 'damaged'.

At home I'm using a PowerWalker VI 1000 RT UPS, whose batteries are now on their 4th year and except for a slightly reduced runtime they still seem to be fine, despite the fact that it takes over several times a week for a few seconds/minutes due to a low grid voltage.


snmp cards are equally expensive for both (all?) vendors, SNMP implementations are equally "questionable" and web interfaces equally wonky and annoying - so there isn't a real selling point for APC in this regard either...


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## Erichans (Apr 22, 2021)

The battery chemistry and how it is being regulated is important. UPSs based on lithium chemistry (various different kind of lithium chemistries exist) have begun to emerge. Assuming lead acid batteries, there are important parameters for lead acid batteries: for charging and standby. Charging does not happen all that much (I hope): standby most of the time.

With lead acid batteries, fully charged during standby, it is very important that the correct floating voltage is applied. That floating voltage mostly depends on the type of lead acid battery, that may differ per brand specification for that specific type of lead acid battery. The optimal floating voltage is also temperature dependent. If the floating voltage during standby is too high, (more) water will inevitably evaporate. Various battery designs exist to minimize this evaporation (e.g. VRLA), so this is not a quick process. However, water that has evaporated is gone—no filler caps to add demineralised water for most UPS batteries 

I have no specific experience with UPS batteries, but it would be interesting to know the floating voltage during standby that is being applied to lead acid batteries in UPSs. Can the voltage being applied to the battery (while charging and during standby) be read and values be logged? It would be ideal if the floating voltage can be set/regulated via a software interface.

UPS firmware regulates charging and standby (floating voltage), so it could very well be a "firmware thing".

If you have no specific data about the floating voltage applied during standby by your specific UPS brand/type hardware, then it might be beneficial to select a replacement battery that has at least the same floating voltage specification (perhaps even a little bit higher) than the original batteries, if possible.

Because of the nature of an UPS, there's always a certain trade-off between the biggest standby capacity (how long will my system be able to run without main power from the grid) versus the longest battery life. A slightly lower or better regulated floating voltage (by your UPS firmware) during standby is more beneficial to the life expectancy of your batteries but it may shorten the minutes of active duty during a power outage.

Some lead acid battery documentation: Charging Lead Acid; more on large UPS batteries.


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## Jose (Apr 22, 2021)

Erichans said:


> ...A slightly lower or better regulated floating voltage (by your UPS firmware) during standby is more beneficial to the life expectancy of your batteries but it may shorten the minutes of active duty during a power outage.


Poor voltage regulation could be a hardware problem too, no? I'm guessing APC has been trying to lower their bill-of-materials costs at the expense of their customers.

I had a couple of small home-user APC UPS batteries crack and leak their acid all over the place. I figured I was doing something wrong, but poor voltage regulation could cause the electrolyte to boil off like Erichans says. The elevated pressure could then cause the case to crack.

Great thread, thanks!


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## Phishfry (Apr 22, 2021)

I just spent a bunch on upgrading my APC units batteries. I used Enersys brand. They are reliable.
I have all SmartUPS with monitoring card AP 9630 or AP9617
3- SU1400RM (Two have joint battery bank of 4/12V deep cycle batteries on trickle charger)
1- SU1000
1- SU700
These use 12V7AH on the small ones and 12V12AH on the rack units.

I have gripes with APC Power Distribution Units not lasting very long. I went to Liebert//Vertiv instead and they are better.
They are real expensive so I scouted ebay for new open box deals. Paid around $200 each.
Monitored and Metered per outlet.

I am happy with APC UPS. Two of my SU1400RM are from Y2K era.

What I want now is monitoring with Munin. It looks like I may need to setup an APC dameon for that.


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## trev (Apr 23, 2021)

The old beige APC SMartUPS generally used to kill batteries because the float voltage was a tad too high, although you could generally fix this by programming the firmware battery constant. I still have a beige SmartUPS 700 and BackUPS Pro 1400 with no issues. My other four UPS are the later black SmartUPS 1400 and 1500 units.

The batteries generally last 3-4 years which is not bad considering that where I live temperatures reach 45C/113F in Summer (35C/95F inside the house). The batteries I (ab)use are Panasonic LC-P1220P SLA UPS standby types. I used to use Yuasa but they became too expensive and hard to find locally. I tried various other "cheap" brands but they barely lasted 12 months.

I should also add that the (changeable) battery constant in the APC firmware (for the beige and black units - I haven't bought a newer generation and my units were "old" when I bought them secondhand) often drifts out of range and needs manually resetting. The sysutils/apcupsd manual has a section in it which I wrote listing the battery constants for various APC units and how to reset them.


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## Phishfry (Apr 23, 2021)

Glad we have a apcupsd contributer here. I am still studying the manual and will have questions.


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## Geezer (Apr 23, 2021)

> The good news is that if you are located in the USA, all you have to do is contact APC Technical Support and they will send you a serial port _dongle_ which plugs into the serial port of your UPS and reprograms the battery constant value for you to the correct value.


... from the aforesaid apcupsd manual ...


> The bad news is that for many users outside the USA, this service does not appear to be available. It is, however, recommended that you first try contacting APC ...



And that's where it starts getting expensive and unsatisfactory. I am afraid I am a long way from the USA. have got two APCs that I am ready to drop off a cliff. But I am in need of reliable and serviceable UPSs.


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## Jose (Apr 23, 2021)

Unfortunately this project went nowhere: https://gitlab.com/esr/upside


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