# Linux distribution recommendation



## cookiemonster (Aug 26, 2013)

What Linux distributions would you recommend that are closest in philosophy and ideals to FreeBSD? I'm looking for organization, stability, security, and reliability, with the smallest amount of closed-source components as possible (preferably none).

Thanks everyone


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## fonz (Aug 26, 2013)

Slackware and Arch Linux, probably.


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## sossego (Aug 26, 2013)

http://cathbard.com/canabix-assorted.html


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## cpm@ (Aug 26, 2013)

Also, check out Gentoo Linux which is pretty easy to install and has a package management system named Portage whose original design was based on FreeBSD ports. It's one of the most closely Linux distributions aligned to the BSD mentality.

As proof of the above, is worth to point to Gentoo/FreeBSD: 


> Gentoo/FreeBSD is a Unix-like operating system developed by Gentoo Linux developers in order to bring Gentoo Linux design, structure, and tools such as Portage and the Gentoo Linux base layout to the FreeBSD operating system.


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## shepper (Aug 26, 2013)

> Slackware and Arch Linux, probably.



I would vote for Slackware for 2 reasons:

Slackware uses the BSD style init scripts - Arch now uses systemd.
The OP also mentioned stability.  Arch runs on the bleeding edge and things occasionally break.
If the OP was interested in keeping his/her finger on the pulse of the latest developments Arch would get the nod.

Neither Slackware nor Arch makes a big issue of closed source applications - for example firmware/MP3 just comes on the main installer.  Debian makes a bigger issue of closed source in that you specifically have to enable "non-free".


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## CurlyTheStooge (Aug 26, 2013)

shepper said:
			
		

> If the OP was interested in keeping his/her finger on the pulse of the latest developments Arch would get the node



As a Slackware user I should mention here that Slackware -current is always up to date with the latest developments and pretty stable too.

Regards.


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## Grell (Aug 26, 2013)

Well, it's not the most UNIX-like but my favorite Linux distribution would be Debian-unstable.  You get bleeding-edge packages in the repositories and APT is probably the easiest and most reliable binary package management system I've ever come across.  It is also not terribly hard to use for someone with little *nix experience.


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## cookiemonster (Aug 26, 2013)

Thanks for everyone's recommendations! I appreciate them.

I'll be researching them all. I'd prefer staying with FreeBSD, but only 10-CURRENT supports my WiFi, so I'll be back when 10 gets to STABLE.


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## jrm@ (Aug 26, 2013)

In case you missed it, [thread=34971]this thread[/thread] might be helpful.


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## kpedersen (Aug 26, 2013)

For hardware issues, perhaps try either OpenBSD or NetBSD. They are probably closer to FreeBSD than any single Linux distribution and usually at least one of the three *BSDs will support your hardware.


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## germanopratin (Aug 26, 2013)

As you asked for a Linux distribution that is closest to in ideals/philosophy to FreeBSD, there's absolutely no doubt that the distribution would be either Slackware or Debian. 

Concerning Slackware, this similarity is exactly the reason why I (as Slackware user) like FreeBSD as well and keep trying to switch to it.  

It's very clear that Slackware draws a lot of inspiration from FreeBSD: as mentioned above, the init process is closest to FreeBSD with just one directory for all the startup scripts. Arch and Gentoo are totally different here. Debian is also different, with its SysV runlevels.

Arch has a central config file like FreeBSD has, but this alone does not make for a lot of resemblance to FreeBSD. 

Then the overall feel: When you install Slackware, it's almost like installing FreeBSD. Slackware is built around the KISS principle. No fuss. No fancy GUI config tools. Just some simple ncurses-based tools. But only a few. Naturally, FreeBSD is far more complex and heavy (in my view) than Slack, but this may just be because it is a BSD. Any BSD will feel heavier than a Linux distribution. It's hard to describe what I mean by "heavy". To me it's that feeling of an over-whelming complexity. Well, because it's Unix. Linux is simpler, hides more of complex layers. FreeBSD is vaster as you are (rightfully) expected to know your CLI. Linux does the GUI shift, every year a bit more. Which annoys me. At least, that is my impression. BSD is simple more awe-inspiring with all its UNIX heritage. But back to the question:

It's all for stability in Slack - both Gentoo and Arch are not. On the contrary. They believe in bleeding edge. As for Arch, this means that the system is broken by default. At least that's been my experience. Installed it twice, and always the famous PakMan package manager ****ed the system up. Debian of course is very stable, yes, but then Debian differs more from BSD than Slack in many other aspects.

On the other hand, concerning the process of how the system is built/maintained Debian is more similar to FreeBSD than Slackware. Both have a lot of manpower, a lot of policy. And democratic structures. This is part of philosophy, too. Whereas with Slack, manpower is limited, to put it mildly. How they manage to deliver so consistently and with that high level of quality is amazing, given that it is only Pat Volkerding and a bunch of guys. And Slack is not democratic and not open.

Gentoo is BSD-like with its Portage system. Slackware users and Arch users are used to work with build systems, too. In Slackware you have SlackBuilds, which let you compile a very simple tgz file. But the SB mechanism is extremely simple. You cannot easily tweak the build - apart from messing with the script. I have never working with Gentoo, but from a couple of reads, I can say, that Gentoo will be closest to FreeBSD, when it comes to ports. Naturally, as they borrowed the whole concept from FreeBSD.

Conclusion: 

You wrote: "I'm looking for organization, stability, security, and reliability, with the smallest amount of closed-source components as possible (preferably none)."

I would NOT recommend Arch or Gentoo to you. Bleeding edge and stability just don't match, impossible. Reliable and stable means either Debian or Slackware.

Concerning security, I really cannot judge. I would guess that both are rather secure. Debian has its own security team. Slack has not, as they are simple not enough people. 

You have more packages for Debian than for Slackware. A couple of times more. So if you want a lot of choice and want to make sure you only have FOSS, Debian would be right for you.

Still, I could imagine, that you will like Slackware the most, just because it is so small and simple. It tries hard to remain as close to the UNIX heritage as possible. This is nothing to be taken for granted in Linux. FreeBSD does that, too. More so. Well, try Slack, maybe you like it. I hope so


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## shepper (Aug 27, 2013)

Another tact is to choose the operating system that best meets your purposes. The above recommendations are all made without a clearly defined goal by the OP.  Are you building a desktop and if so what DE/WM?  How much time can you invest building from source and more importantly maintaining your packages?  Be aware that binary packages from FreeBSD-RELEASE/-STABLE are not always the latest stable versions.

You also mentioned a problem with your WiFi.  Unless you are dealing with a laptop, and some laptops have replaceable WiFi modules, they are relatively cheap and not hard to change.

Also, if Debian Sid is getting some support, I would also suggest looking at OpenBSD.  I have run OpenBSD current for months at a time with weekly updates and no problems.  There are times when OpenBSD will provide hardware support for a particular piece of hardware earlier than FreeBSD - what WiFi card do you have and do you know how to see if it is supported in a particular BSD?


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## cookiemonster (Aug 27, 2013)

Thanks all, everyone has given some good suggestions.

@shepper: I'm working on a laptop (Asus K55n) with an AMD chipset, and I'm having problems with the AR9485 WiFi. Everything else seems to work, and it appears support for AR9485 isn't available until 10.


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## scottro (Aug 27, 2013)

One other thought, though it seems overly complex, is to take some lightweight distribution, run it with a light desktop manager like dwm(), and then run your FreeBSD in VirtualBox.  If not using a GUI on the FreeBSD virtual machine, then KVM might be a better choice than VirtualBox.   In my experience, which is limited to a few distributions, KVM's graphics are, when compared to VirtualBox, somewhat choppy, and I often was unable to get sound to work, however, when used to run a server, it was lighter on resources than VirtualBox.


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## h3z (Aug 27, 2013)

L.F.S. and pkgsrc. Or, DracoLinux with pkgsrc


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## scottro (Sep 1, 2013)

Just for fun, I tried OpenBSD 5.3 on my Zenbook, which has the same wireless card.  It didn't see the card either.


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## sossego (Sep 2, 2013)

scottro said:
			
		

> Just for fun, I tried OpenBSD 5.3 on my Zenbook, which has the same wireless card.  It didn't see the card either.



A verbose dmesg output usually will show all of the hardware on a machine. Also, you may want to see if the device is recognized by NetBSD. Whether or not there are drivers available for said devices is another story.


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## scottro (Sep 2, 2013)

I should try with NetBSD too, good idea, thank you.  With OpenBSD, I did install it, but upon boot, it gave a kernel panic.  I didn't even try to troubleshoot, as this was something done out of idle curiosity, and not something that I am, at present, willing to put too much work into doing.  During installation, though, when it sought network devices, it didn't see the card.  Afterwards, I booted once again, dropped into shell and ran ifconfig() to find that it didn't see the device.


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## fonz (Sep 2, 2013)

scottro said:
			
		

> With OpenBSD, I did install it, but upon boot, it gave a kernel panic.  I didn't even try to troubleshoot, as this was something done out of idle curiosity, and not something that I am, at present, willing to put too much work into doing.


With OpenBSD, that's a problem  It can work really well, but some effort is usually required to make it work in the first place.


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## scottro (Sep 2, 2013)

Ok, and NetBSD (from USB) wouldn't even boot, so I think I'm giving up on this.  If I am going to run a  BSD on this Zenbook, I'll either work with CURRENT for a while or just use it with wired Ethernet.


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## sossego (Sep 2, 2013)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LGl0j6yF9Y
I don't know if the model is the same; but, the poster mentions the existing card.

http://openbsd.7691.n7.nabble.com/add-intel-6235-support-to-iwn-4-td163212.html
That card is mentioned in that post.

Asking on the OpenBSD mailing lists may help.


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## scottro (Sep 2, 2013)

No, different cards.  My Zenbook uses the same wireless that CookieMonster has, the AR9485 Atheros wireless.


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## sossego (Sep 2, 2013)

That card is also mentioned in a few OpenBSD lists.


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## scottro (Sep 2, 2013)

Hi, it probably is, but, firstly, I didn't mean to hijack this thread--it had to do with someone suggesting the original poster consider OpenBSD as a possibility to stay with a BSD and still use the AR9485 card.  So, as I have a Zenbook, which uses that card, I gave a quick try with OpenBSD, which didn't see the card.  In addition, I installed it anyway but it wouldn't boot.  So, please just consider it a passing comment in an effort to let the original poster know that AR9485 isn't supported out of the box in OpenBSD either.  

This doesn't mean I don't appreciate your suggestions, but it's not my thread, and not a major issue for me.    (If this came out at all snarky, it's not meant to be, it's more that I feel I'm hogging someone else's thread.)


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## drhowarddrfine (Sep 2, 2013)

I'm curious. If it has to be as close to FreeBSD as possible, why run Linux at all? Why aren't you just running FreeBSD?


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## fonz (Sep 2, 2013)

drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> I'm curious. If it has to be as close to FreeBSD as possible, why run Linux at all? Why aren't you just running FreeBSD?


See above: WiFi card support.


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## kpedersen (Sep 3, 2013)

Rather than muck about with Linux, just replace the WiFi card with one using a less "novel" chipset. I would much prefer to use FreeBSD even if it means having a cheap WiFi dongle sticking out the back. Luckily WiFi is one of the components that can be easily replaced


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## wblock@ (Sep 3, 2013)

kpedersen said:
			
		

> Rather than muck about with Linux, just replace the WiFi card with one using a less "novel" chipset. I would much prefer to use FreeBSD even if it means having a cheap WiFi dongle sticking out the back. Luckily WiFi is one of the components that can be easily replaced



Computers made by Lenovo and HP have BIOS whitelists that only allow "approved" cards to work, or sometimes, prevent the computer from working unless an "approved" card is installed.  Personally, I avoid those brands, and have replaced the wireless cards in Acer and Dell systems.  Some cards are easy to get to, some are not.  There are also variations in card size and number of antenna connectors.  Still, for a system you intend to use a lot, I think it's worth it.


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## sossego (Sep 4, 2013)

Everything does not run on a single OS or a single architecture.

There are two references here to installing a Linux distribution in a jailed environment.
Debian
CentOS

From working with building different applications on FreeBSD, I can understand why someone may just want a readily available version of the software.

I had run multiple BSDs and Linux distributions on the machines I have.  My reasons were:

Performance testing
Building Gnome AT on OpenBSD on a B&W G3.
Package building.
Video server
SSH sharing between systems.
Et al. Et cetera.


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## throAU (Sep 4, 2013)

Changing OS is often easier than changing hardware - desktop operating systems are a commodity now.


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## scottro (Sep 7, 2013)

Can anyone recommend a tested wireless USB dongle?  I've been googling this today, but the Newegg listings don't usually list the chipsets.  For example, I thought the EW7811Un would work, but I almost missed the fact that it was an OpenBSD man page.  The urtw(4) page for FreeBSD doesn't list it.  I've been going through Newegg, then googling with the model number of a likely looking card with FreeBSD as the other search term, but I'm not finding anything yet.  

EDIT.  Looking at run(4) is showing a few, such as the ASUS USB-N13 that may work.  (That one is iffy though, it specifies ver. A1)  At any rate, there's a long list of supported adapters on that man page that I can check on Newegg.  If I buy one and use it, I'll post further. 

I may just wait for CURRENT to be released, though.  I don't use that particular machine very often.  

Undecidedly yours,


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## sossego (Sep 7, 2013)

I have only used the Linksys from the listing in run(4)(). It will work.


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## scottro (Sep 7, 2013)

I see a couple of Buffalo cards still available on NewEgg also listed there.  There's one of the small profile ones, a  WLI-UC-GNM that googling indicates might work.  There's another, a bigger (that is, similar in size to a typical USB stick) USB, WLI-UC-G300N, that is listed in the run(4) page.  I am, however, a very frugal person, and so I really think I may wait for CURRENT to become a RELEASE.  It's loosely scheduled for next month, and I don't have any dire need to use the laptop away from a cabled connection right now.  

Heh, I see the WUSB600N from the man page listing is out of stock at NewEgg.


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## scottro (Sep 9, 2013)

I posted on the NYCBSD list, asking a little more about USB adapters, and one person was kind enough to post an eBay link to a possible working USB adapter.  They believe it will work, but don't guarantee it.  Here's the link in case @cookiemonster wants to try it. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ralink-RT3070-802-11n-WiFi-USB-WIRELESS-N-card-adapter-/261117253939

It's only $10.00 but will take about ten days to get.  

I also, in an "Eat your own dogfood," mood, tried running FreeBSD as a VirtualBox guest in a small Fedora installation on my Zenbook, as I'd suggested doing earlier. I gave it 3 GB of the host's 4 GB for RAM and two of the host's four processors.  It ran at almost native speed, though I didn't run `make buildworld` or any other heavy duty work on it.  To speed things up, as this was a test, I used PC-BSD's pkgng() repositories, and installed most things with `pkg install <whatever>`.  However, on a few things, such as dwm(), I used the port for installation.  (With dwm() I wanted to use a custom config.h and I don't know if one can do that with `pkg install`.  If it can be done, I don't know how to do it.  

For me, who is just waiting a few months for CURRENT, but wants a FreeBSD install on this Zenbook, that is sufficient.  I won't be doing very much with this machine, so I can either use the VirtualBox guest if I want wireless, or the actual install if I'm going to be sitting by my desk where I have cables.  

For what it is worth, a few other drivers that are already working in OpenBSD, such as urtwn, which supports several newer USB adapters, are also now in HEAD and should be in FreeBSD-10.  

One does have to be careful.  For example, one driver, which I've already forgotten, (possibly run(4)) supports an Asus USB-N13 version A1.  I saw that B&H in NYC had a used adapter on sale at a very low price and brought my laptop there.  They were very nice and let me try it, but it turned out that it was version B1 and wouldn't work.  (There's a thread about someone who bought one of these, not realizing that they should be aware of the version number, only to find that it didn't work at http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=32071 )  Many of the adapters supported with with the existing wireless drivers are somewhat old, and many are shown as no longer in stock at various manufacturers.  

This post is probably too long, but hopefully, it helps someone.


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## sossego (Sep 9, 2013)

```
$ uname -a
FreeBSD keeples 10.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT #0: Sun Mar  3 21:07:59 EST 2013     root@keeples:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  i386
$
```

The only "problem" that I see with CURRENT is that 
	
	



```
USE_GCC= any
```
 is needed with some ports.


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## scottro (Sep 9, 2013)

Again, I don't want to hijack this thread. (And I know that CURRENT is not supported here.)  I hadn't used the 
	
	



```
USE_GCC= any
```
 which may be why several ports failed to build.  I may give that a try this week.


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## eXemplo (Sep 9, 2013)

Slackware
Fedora
Sabayon
Gentoo


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## scottro (Sep 9, 2013)

Well, I wound up giving CURRENT a try again and this time, my necessary ports all installed.  So, for me, the issue is solved.  This machine won't be doing much, just some workstation type things, so I'm good. 

The very good news is, I think, that aside from the AR9485, several other wireless cards and USB wireless adapters will be supported in FreeBSD-10.


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## cookiemonster (Sep 10, 2013)

Thanks again everyone. I've settled on Debian Wheezy which recognized and configured my AR9485 without issue.

I'll wait for FreeBSD 10 to hit RELEASE and then I'll give it another go.


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## dndlnx (Sep 14, 2013)

germanopratin said:
			
		

> Arch has a central config file like FreeBSD has, but this alone does not make for a lot of resemblance to FreeBSD.



If you're referring to rc.conf it got canned for systemd, which seemed like a mess to me, I much preferred the old way.


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## vermaden (Sep 14, 2013)

cookiemonster said:
			
		

> What Linux distributions would you recommend that are closest in philosophy and ideals to FreeBSD? I'm looking for organization, stability, security, and reliability, with the smallest amount of closed-source components as possible (preferably none).
> 
> Thanks everyone



If I _have_ to use Linux, it's probably for _work_, so I use CentOS for projects that do not need _official support_ [1] and Oracle Unbreakable Linux when _official support_ is needed.

Also Red Hat Enterprise Linux for all the projects that think they need support and want to pay extra for nothing [2].



[1] This means that if a DBA want to install an Oracle 11.2 database, they do not complain, that it is not supported 
[2] I have used Red Hat support several times, with small problems, you can find the solution in Google, with hard problems like HA NFS file locking and clustering they are useless at most.


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## fernandel (Sep 30, 2013)

cookiemonster said:
			
		

> Thanks again everyone. I've settled on Debian Wheezy which recognized and configured my AR9485 without issue.
> 
> I'll wait for FreeBSD 10 to hit RELEASE and then I'll give it another go.



I didn't switch yet but I am thinking because running CURRENT is so painful and 
	
	



```
USE_GCC= any
```
 is also one of the reasons. I will go with FreeBSD 9.2-RELEASE but the Radeon 4850 GPU is not supported.
Also not working sound system is painful which on Live Linux DVD works everything without problems (also bluetooth magic mouse).

Fernandel


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## adamk (Sep 30, 2013)

FYI, the Radeon HD4850 is definitely supported on FreeBSD, and has been for quite a while.

Adam


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## fernandel (Sep 30, 2013)

adamk said:
			
		

> FYI, the Radeon HD4850 is definitely supported on FreeBSD, and has been for quite a while.
> 
> Adam



I was not lucky. I installed FreeBSD 9.2-RC3 on my iMac 11,1 with ATI Radeon HD 4850. Type: GPU graphics card, display is LCD 2560 x 1440 and I got just a black screen, built with HAL or without. It was the same.with ATI or RadeonHD drivers: black screen. If you have a suggestion how the settings should be, not VESA, but I don't need 3D acceleration. I will give a try again.

Thank you.

I forgot to write that Xorg didn't work (not built with HAL or without, no xorg.conf or with xorg.conf).


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## sossego (Sep 30, 2013)

If all else fails try`Xorg -configure -retro`. You will have a text file to edit. Gyb - Google/yahoo/bing - for some examples to follow.


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## wblock@ (Sep 30, 2013)

It's off-topic for this thread.  Please start a new one.


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## neilms (Oct 1, 2013)

Debian is the way to go as far as Linux distributions.


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## freesbies (Oct 1, 2013)

Arch Linux if you want a system that is up-to-date while being secure.
Gentoo if you want a system that tries to match FreeBSD structure, it's powerfull and very fast if well configured.

(off-topic) And of course  FreeBSD if you want a rock solid system that serves anything since embedded devices to huge datacenters. 

Even my toaster runs FreeBSD!


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