# Who do you convert?



## Phishfry (Aug 10, 2017)

I recently switched some of my neighbors over to FreeBSD xfce4 desktop. So far so good.

My luck with converting people from Windows to FreeBSD has been mostly with old people.

They have no idea what Android is and they are smart enough to not like Microsoft.

Now when they come to me with the dreaded FBI ransomware screen I make them switch.

Who do you find to be the easiest converting to a FreeBSD desktop?


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## Birdy (Aug 10, 2017)

I started with myself, am continuing exploring FreeBSD and like it lot. Once comfy and happy with it I will be able to show whoever wishes how to convince and convert themselves, i.e. inquisitive people in search of an alternative to their current OS. If they like it I will be glad to have helped. If they don't, that's fine too. In short: converting convertibles and convertables.


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## Deleted member 30996 (Aug 10, 2017)

I'm sorry to say I've never converted anyone. The last person I tried was more interested in me showing her how to download a Hearts card game onto her Windows box.


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## SirDice (Aug 10, 2017)

Maybe not converted anyone but I sure did get a lot of people to at least try it


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## ronaldlees (Aug 11, 2017)

What's an older person?  It's relative I suppose.  I'm in the over-60 crowd, so older (for me) is probably older than your "older" - LOL.  Anyway, an "older" person I know had the ransomware, and paid the $300.  The "fix" didn't work, so they bought another computer, with Windows.  I'd tried to evangelize a Linux conversion on them (I figured I'd hop-skip to FreeBSD eventually) - but even that didn't fly.   Once they learn an OS (a long learning curve for a lot of people) - they don't want to do it again.


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## Deleted member 30996 (Aug 11, 2017)

ronaldlees said:


> Once they learn an OS (a long learning curve for a lot of people) - they don't want to do it again.



That's why I thought the person I tried to convert might be just as easy to teach to use FreeBSD as Windows since she didn't know how to use either one.

I'm not "over" 60 but...she is.


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## -Snake- (Aug 11, 2017)

I think it is useless to try to convince someone to use an operating system, it should be that person who cares about him and make the effort to read about that system.

Sometimes it is difficult to convince someone to use gnu/linux, a system that already has a lot of hardware support and a lot of graphical interfaces, abstractions etc ... I do not see it easy to convince someone to use freebsd, at least on desktop.

Anyway, I think it is better to focus on making a good system and less on "converting" people, that is what has happened in gnu/linux and from my point of view the technical section has passed to a second place.


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## topcat (Aug 12, 2017)

I run everything on FreeBSD, even my work machines. For a while my systems were the only FreeBSD desktops in an office of about a 100 people. We are very Windows based: developer workstations and mail, etc. However I managed to get everything working with the Windows servers.

After a while a couple of my colleagues noticed how stable, snappy and lag free my systems were, and they wanted to try it out as well. No convincing was needed  So now one of them runs in on his second machine at work, while the other is using it on a laptop. They tell me that they are amazed at how lightweight it is compared to Windows 10. I tell them this system was designed to handle hardcore server loads! Once you've got supported hardware, the experience is actually very positive, even on a desktop.


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## Phishfry (Aug 12, 2017)

I am just beginning to have enough confidence in system maintenance to even help these people.
I used to do alot of virus cleanup on Windows boxes and with each Windows version they kept making it harder to
fix so I gave up and only did complete PC system sales. I did try some Ubuntu customer trials but it never took.
So trying again with FreeBSD and hand holding the people. My neighbors are the betas.
The printer setup was the worst part.
There is a certain satisfaction to dd a Windows install with ransomware.
No more trolling piratebay for the exact Windows CD needed for the COA on the box.


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## Deleted member 9563 (Aug 12, 2017)

I just set up a computer for and old lady who lost everything in one of the area fires we're having here. I haven't delivered it yet, but don't expect she'll even notice, or care, that's it's not Microsoft.

I'm actually a bit confused about what it actually is that keeps many people using MS-Windows. Surely if you just stick to a single desktop in some GUI or other there is no significant difference in the interface. I notice that Windows and Mac people don't multitask much, preferring to minimize programs and open several things on the same desktop, much like Windows 3.1. I would guess that what some people object to is the loss of some favorite game or particular program, and nothing to do with the interface or operating system.


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## Beastie (Aug 12, 2017)

OJ said:


> I would guess that what some people object to is the loss of some favorite game or particular program, and nothing to do with the interface or operating system.


Of course! That 25-year-old polished graphical interface confuses many non-techies almost as much as shell black magic. It's so bad, many don't even read error messages or notifications; they just click "YES" by default, and this often ends up doing the opposite of what they intended to do.


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## Russ Perkins (Aug 13, 2017)

OJ said:


> I just set up a computer for and old lady who lost everything in one of the area fires we're having here. I haven't delivered it yet, but don't expect she'll even notice, or care, that's it's not Microsoft.
> 
> I'm actually a bit confused about what it actually is that keeps many people using MS-Windows. Surely if you just stick to a single desktop in some GUI or other there is no significant difference in the interface. I notice that Windows and Mac people don't multitask much, preferring to minimize programs and open several things on the same desktop, much like Windows 3.1. I would guess that what some people object to is the loss of some favorite game or particular program, and nothing to do with the interface or operating system.



I think most people really don't care that much as long as it works without making them think. Like sheep


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## Deleted member 9563 (Aug 13, 2017)

Russ Perkins said:


> I think most people really don't care that much as long as it works without making them think. Like sheep


I get what you're saying. I'm not sure calling them "sheep" is fair though. People have a lot on their minds, like this situation for example. Surely somebody in their 80s who has just lost every single physical thing in their life is not going to want to spend time thinking about operating systems. We can probably agree on that, but to call such a person "sheep" is ... well, what do you think?   People have lives, and if they can just click on email, browser, office-writer, then all's good for their life. They can then get on with things which in reality are very much more important. Operating systems and operating a computer are insignificant subjects in real life.


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## ronaldlees (Aug 14, 2017)

OJ said:


> ... which in reality are very much more important. Operating systems and operating a computer are insignificant subjects in real life.



So true.  We are all wasting our lives.  FreeBSD is ... an addiction.  After rehab we are going to feel _so bad!

But I digress ..._
Most people have healthier hobbies (hiking, ball games, dinner/ night on the town, social life).  OK - at least _one_ of those was healthier.  FreeBSD for me is more about knowing what it is, how it works, and helping me to understand the risks associated with computing.  It's also a pure-hobby sort of thing where I simply enjoy playing with software.  But, for most people, computers send emails, etc.   For them the OS is indeed boring.  They don't want to know about it, which (in some ways) makes them vulnerable.


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## Deleted member 9563 (Aug 14, 2017)

ronaldlees said:


> But, for most people, computers send emails, etc. For them the OS is indeed boring. They don't want to know about it, which (in some ways) makes them vulnerable.


And indeed many people would do well to put a little more effort into this kind of modern literacy. I'm afraid that's not going to happen though, with schools (certainly in Canada) basically acting as a sales vehicle for proprietary interests. And in general society there is little opportunity for the average non IT interested person to get a grip because of the deliberate obfuscation by monopolizing commercial interests.

So, converting non-IT people to FreeBSD or FOSS is probably not a common or even likely occurrence. However, now that I think about it, converting computer literate people to FreeBSD does appear to happen in my experience. I often have opportunity to say "I'm running FreeBSD" and it's remarkable how many (usually Linux users) who respond with interest when they encounter somebody who is actually doing it. I've several times seen somebody decide to give it a try for themselves based on that.


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## ShelLuser (Aug 14, 2017)

I'm not too sure that converting those people is actually a good idea. Sure, they'll be able to use the whole thing because I assume that who ever set it up did make sure that all the required options were in place, or taught the user where to find which applications (most desktop / window -managers are quite easy to navigate anyway).

But how are they going to maintain it? Heck, are they going to in the first place?

Although most certainly not perfect Windows updates are pretty simple to apply, most of the work is done behind the scenes. And sure, sometimes things go horribly bad but yah; generally speaking anyone can pretty much do it (and normally it's also being done).

With Linux and FreeBSD not so much in my opinion. For starters: will such an end user try to read into /usr/ports/UPDATING or do they know about pkg-updating(8)? Of course I'm only focusing on FreeBSD here but the same can be said about Linux; more than often certain packages provide direct instructions on how to perform an upgrade but most users stop with clicking update in their GUI package manager (if they click that at all).

If you're ignoring all that then it's not as if your system will immediately break down, but it does have the potential to create issues, which could turn into problems over time. And that, together with a possible lack of updates, can lead to security issues.

Which is the main reason why I've always been a little skeptic about these things (for both Linux and FreeBSD): a rogue Unix-like OS/environment can be much more dangerous and damaging than an overrun Windows machine. That's not trying to down talk on Windows because with the proper tools you can also do a lot there as well (PowerShell can be extremely versatile) but even so... Fact still remains that a pristine Windows environment will be able to do a whole lot less than a pristine Unix-like environment.

And that's the part I sometimes worry about when I read stories about end users being put behind full blown Unix environments. Most of them would probably not even realize it if someone else was logged on.


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## Deleted member 9563 (Aug 15, 2017)

ShelLuser said:


> And that's the part I sometimes worry about when I read stories about end users being put behind full blown Unix environments.


I don't think there's a problem when the "convertee" is a long time Linux user. But I totally agree with trying to convert the general public. That problem is in fact what usually keeps me from installing Linux on people's machines even when they ask me to. I just don't want to support it and they are not likely to properly maintain it themselves.

I have two real world cases in this regard. One is the one I mentioned above with an elderly lady. I think I will be willing to maintain that for her, but also hope she can learn the GUI package manager for updates. The other one is perfect. It's a lady in the neighborhood who swore she didn't want to get involved with computers, but did accept a laptop from me and my wife for the sole purpose of writing letters and reports and printing them out. Without an internet connection the machine is just humming along two years later. I got off easy on that one.


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## Deleted member 9563 (Aug 15, 2017)

Further to my above post: yes that's actually a Linux "conversion". Frankly, I don't think that FreeBSD would work for anybody who is not willing to learn or already somewhat computer literate. Perhaps some kind of kiosk arrangement with automatic updates, I don't know. Linux is a little better for that purpose, but still is problematic.


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## Phishfry (Aug 15, 2017)

Your thinking Kiosk, i was thinking NanoBSD with Openbox and a Browser. RO so save all documents on thumbdrive.
Flash new images as warranted. The Web Appliance.... It's on my list.


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## teo (Aug 15, 2017)

When you enter a store to buy a device to be compatible with FreeBSD (not served) have no idea what that is FreeBSD, and I told him that it belongs to the family BSD heirs of Unix, at that time the seller entered the internet and said it was an old system and not had the device that I wanted to buy.

With the scandals of spying on the privacy on a large scale and the continued vulnerability of windows systems with ransomware, a lot of people are looking for alternative in systems as Linux or FreeBSD that are not exposed easily to viruses or vulnerability as are the exploits or backdoor in the windows mi-crosoft.


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