# Trying PC BSD instead of Debian Squeeze



## neilms (Feb 6, 2013)

This is partly a rant, I suppose. I have Debian Squeeze on a Toshiba laptop with a 17" screen. I have had it installed for a long time - by my standards. The hardware is supported nicely - even the wireless card works.

Lately, I have become more intolerant of this machine:

1. When it boots, there is a 50/50 chance that it will 'hang' with a blank screen, in which case I have to re-boot. Today, it took 2 boots to get a gdm login prompt.
2. The web browsers seem unreliable. I really really like google chrome - it is fast and allows me to sync my bookmarks with other devices. I can't get google chrome to work on debian Squeeze - even though it is in their software repository. There is a bug that has been around for a long time that says something like -'failed to write to buffer backend./opt system full.' or some crap like that. So I was *forced* to use Chronium - which due to a bug does not support bookmark syncs. Moreover, it is really sluggish and slow - even after I empty the cache etc. Firefox is past it's sell by date, ephipany / galeon are nice but lack the chrome touch for me. I tried konqueror - LOL an accident waiting to happen at every mouse click. You get my drift. Even if PC BSD does not have chrome - I can deal with that.
3. Things just seem - not quite right about this machine. It is a shame as it is a very nice laptop.
4. Debian wheezy was promised a long time ago and seems like it is never ever going to come. It has missed the train now as I have a 'pure' real FreeBSD system installed on another laptop and find that it provides a superior development environment using only the console.

Sometimes I don't feel like using the console - I just want a quick look at something without too much hassle. Well that is where this laptop comes in. I have seen PC BSD - but never really considered it - I don't like KDE. But now I have thought that if I had this installed it could replace the Debian OS . Apparently 9.1 supports Gnome. Also, it would have something in common with my *real FreeBSD laptop* and there is the consistency of Unix command use - better for me and better for YOU! (because I will learn more and ask fewer lame questions here).

But will everything work? So far, I can see that my wireless card might not.

```
14:00.0 Network controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8191SEvB Wireless LAN Controller (rev 10)
```
. I can deal with that I have a Belkin USB dongle and also a really cool Atheros USB device that will work. 

I am backing up my stuff now - getting ready to Burn that PC BSD DVD. Have you tried PC - BSD?


----------



## fonz (Feb 6, 2013)

neilms said:
			
		

> Firefox is past it's sell by date


Judging from what I know people here are using, you can probably expect to get some stick for that statement. However, I couldn't help but notice that you mentioned almost all major browsers except the one that I prefer hands down: Opera.



			
				neilms said:
			
		

> I don't like KDE.


I'm no PC-BSD expert, but I do seem to recall that it offers more than just KDE these days: GNOME, LXDE, XFCE and possibly more.


----------



## neilms (Feb 6, 2013)

You know Opera was OK during it's time. But it is no longer even in Debian repositories. I don't even believe that it is still being maintained. You are taking a big security risk using a web browser that is defunct.


----------



## fonz (Feb 6, 2013)

neilms said:
			
		

> But it is no longer even in Debian repositories. I don't even believe that it is still being maintained. You are taking a big security risk using a web browser that is defunct.


Opera is still actively maintained and developed and is by no stretch of the imagination defunct. Just because it's (apparently) no longer in Debian's repositories doesn't mean a whole lot because Debian often has its own mind about things and there could be any number of reasons why Opera isn't in their repositories.


----------



## h3z (Feb 6, 2013)

neilms said:
			
		

> Sometimes I don't feel like using the console - I just want a quick look at something without too much hassle.



I myself would just prefer to set up FreeBSD to run as you say. If properly set up, it can be as quick and effortless as PC-BSD and other systems.

But, I have heard that PC-BSD is a good option if one is not ready to take the FreeBSD configuration plunge . Which is not nearly as hard as one might think it is.

You could use your browser of choice through the FreeBSD linux compatiblilty.

I haven't used PC-BSD, it sounds fine though. You might check out GhostBSD also. It is less developed, but might be a nice alternative as well.


----------



## cpm@ (Feb 6, 2013)

neilms said:
			
		

> You know Opera was OK during it's time. But it is no longer even in Debian repositories. I don't even believe that it is still being maintained. You are taking a big security risk using a web browser that is defunct.



AFAIK, Opera still fighting over market comparatives. Simply, consider more reasonable user default option: _"if you don't like then don't install it"_. Check, e.g. Firefox vs Opera.

Regarding question about non-free licenses, as quoted in Opera-Debian wiki: 


> Opera is a non-free (proprietary) software. It isn't supported by Debian. It's probably wiser to use a supported web browser!



See why does not meet the license's conditions, here.


----------



## jwele (Feb 6, 2013)

h3z said:
			
		

> I myself would just prefer to setup FreeBSD to run as you say . If properly set up, it can be as quick and effortless as PC-BSD and other systems .



I agree with this statement.


----------



## sossego (Feb 6, 2013)

Wireless connecting on FreeBSD is easier since you only need to create wlanX, scan, and use dhclient. When I had removed all of Gnome- this is on Squeeze- and its dependencies, networking crapped out. 
Firefox is at version 18 on FreeBSD.
Sometimes it is better to use startx with a custom xinit script.


----------



## neilms (Feb 6, 2013)

h3z said:
			
		

> I myself would just prefer to setup FreeBSD to run as you say . If properly set up, it can be as quick and effortless as PC-BSD and other systems .



Right on Brother.
I am going to give PC-BSD a try. If it does not impress me, I have a FreeBSD ready.


----------



## fonz (Feb 6, 2013)

*Hold the phone, skipper!*

[red]PLEASE NOTE[/red]

My initial comment about Opera was intended merely as a side note. I definitively intended neither to hijack/sidetrack the thread nor to initiate a browser holy war (which hasn't occurred yet but I can see the potential for it). For the benefit of everyone as well as the original topic of this thread I started a separate thread here. If you wish to discuss the comparative (dis)advantages of various browsers (in a constructive and civil manner) I encourage you to take it there instead of here.

Thank you and apologies to neilms.


----------



## cpm@ (Feb 6, 2013)

fonz said:
			
		

> [red]PLEASE NOTE[/red]
> 
> My initial comment about Opera was intended merely as a side note. I definitively intended neither to hijack/sidetrack the thread nor to initiate a browser holy war (which hasn't occurred yet but I can see the potential for it). For the benefit of everyone as well as the original topic of this thread I will start a separate thread (this post will be edited to include a link asap) in Off-topic. If you wish to discuss the comparative (dis)advantages of various browsers (in a constructive and civil manner) I encourage you to take it there (again: link will follow asap) instead of here.
> 
> Thank you and apologies to neilms.



I wanted to shed some light on the subject of proprietary software in Debian GNU/Linux. Don't worry *fonz*,  I did a neutral comment :e


----------



## fonz (Feb 6, 2013)

cpu82 said:
			
		

> I wanted to shed some light on the subject of proprietary software in Debian GNU/Linux. Don't worry *fonz*,  I did a neutral comment :e


Don't take it personally. I just acted pre-emptively because I could see this possibly getting out of hand. If nothing happens, there's no harm done either


----------



## neilms (Feb 7, 2013)

All I can say is any os that causes me the need to remove my laptop battery to reboot, is not going to live on my pc too long. My experiment is over and I am installing real FreeBSD.


----------



## tiny (Feb 7, 2013)

I wont defend Debian, but from my experience if you need to remove a battery to reboot then likely the battery itself needs to be replaced. I've come across even windows machines that have had that happen and it is usually the battery that is at fault. I had Debian and prefer FreeBSD myself, I think PC-BSD is a great way to step into BSD too.


----------



## neilms (Feb 7, 2013)

tiny said:
			
		

> I wont defend Debian, but from my experience if you need to remove a battery to reboot then likely the battery itself needs to be replaced. I've come across even windows machines that have had that happen and it is usually the battery that is at fault. I had Debian and prefer FreeBSD myself, I think PC-BSD is a great way to step into BSD too.



Nope. Nothing wrong with my laptop at all. The system hung when setting resloution. I had to disconnect power to restart.


----------



## NewGuy (Feb 7, 2013)

neilms said:
			
		

> All I can say is any os that causes me the need to remove my laptop battery to reboot, is not going to live on my pc too long. My experiment is over and I am installing real FreeBSD.



That's not an OS problem, that's a hardware problem.


----------



## h3z (Feb 8, 2013)

tiny said:
			
		

> I wont defend Debian, but from my experience if you need to remove a battery to reboot then likely the battery itself needs to be replaced. I've come across even windows machines that have had that happen and it is usually the battery that is at fault. I had Debian and prefer FreeBSD myself, I think PC-BSD is a great way to step into BSD too.



No reason not too defend Debian . It has its way of doing things and some people like it . It has been around a while . But, its not FreeBSD . People argue which is better all the time . If you don't have the will to learn FreeBSD, like the will too learn Linux when leaving Windows then maybe Debain is among one of the better Linux distros for you . If I had to use linux I would use Debian before most of them .

But, if you don't wanna build your own Unix(ish) OS/disrto and want simular control to that of making your own, FreeBSD has superior options for you . There are of course a good handful of source based linux distros out there . However, with FreeBSD you have the best of the package management world, with the source world . Thats why we're here .

These are just surface reasons for using FreeBSD . For many the license is important also . And there are countless security/management reasons for using FreeBSD .

But, if none of that mattered and you just didn't wanna use Windows, Debian should suit the average facebook/youtube addict just fine .

No reason for us to bash the Debian distro, just like none have a reason to bash FreeBSD just because they lack the willingness to learn .

I am not very pleased with its state or design, but I have to give Debian credit for trying the Freebsd kernel in kfreeBSD . But, I don't know that they will get anything out of it other than just being able to Pimp around the name FreeBSD . And, its funny to me that kfreebsd is such a touchy subject amongst hardcore Debian users . I'm sure many FreeBSD lovers feel disdian for it also, but not because of intimidation .

Well, this little novel of mine was not a rant or disagrement with anyone . I was accually quite bored and had been thinking about this topic .


----------



## sossego (Feb 9, 2013)

I'm just curious about something. Since the entire Debian system- or at least a majority of it- can run on the FreeBSD kernel- why not use it for the linuxlator base? 








*Ducks to avoid flying objects*


----------



## h3z (Feb 9, 2013)

sossego said:
			
		

> I'm just curious about something. Since the entire Debian system- or at least a majority of it- can run on the FreeBSD kernel- why not use it for the linuxlator base?
> 
> *Ducks to avoid flying objects*



Is that in reference to kfreebsd ?

otherwise

Probably because it would take less effort and impose less latency to use FreeBSD or Debian Themselves .


----------



## ChalkBored (Feb 9, 2013)

He means why not use Debian instead of Fedora for the Linux based packages.


My guess is it's because rpm packages are kind of a standard for enterprise software. You're more likely to come across software that has an .rpm but no .deb than the other way around.


----------



## h3z (Feb 9, 2013)

ChalkBored said:
			
		

> He means why not use Debian instead of Fedora for the Linux based packages.
> 
> 
> My guess is it's because rpm packages are kind of a standard for enterprise software. You're more likely to come across software that has an .rpm but no .deb than the other way around.



That makes sense . 

You could probably get the deb package, system working inside the Fedora skeleton .


----------

