# UbuntuÃ¢Â€Â™s X Window replacement Ã¢Â€ÂœMirÃ¢Â€Â coming in next OS version



## overmind (Jul 11, 2013)

*Ubuntuâ€™s X Window replacement â€œMirâ€ coming in next OS version*

"Mir, Ubuntu's in-progress replacement for the X Window System, is being used internally at Ubuntu developer Canonical and will be available to all users in the next version of the operating system."

Here is the news: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/ubuntus-x-window-replacement-mir-coming-in-next-os-version/


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## hitest (Jul 11, 2013)

Interesting.  So Ubuntu has given up on Wayland?


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## KARNVORbeefRAGE (Jul 11, 2013)

Ubuntu no longer lists itself as Linux on the website either... sad.

http://www.ubuntu.com/


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## overmind (Jul 11, 2013)

KARNVORbeefRAGE said:
			
		

> Ubuntu no longer lists itself as Linux on the website either... sad.
> 
> http://www.ubuntu.com/



Weirdly... But "Ubuntu operating system" is GNU/Linux! I don't see the reason they've done that.


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## fonz (Jul 11, 2013)

overmind said:
			
		

> Weirdly... But "Ubuntu operating system" is GNU/Linux! I don't see the reason they've done that.


Ubuntu wish to profile themselves as a serious operating system, but (GNU/)Linux still has a reputation of being a toy for tinkering geeks 

Disclaimer: the statement above has no basis in fact, it's just a stab in the dark.


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## wblock@ (Jul 11, 2013)

They talk about why Mir rather than Wayland: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/Spec?action=show&redirect=MirSpec.

It uses KMS and DRM, so may be portable to FreeBSD.  I could not easily find the license.

Edit: license is GPLv3.


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## ShelLuser (Jul 12, 2013)

Hm, Mir is a space station which crashed down to Earth in 2001. Makes you wonder 

A bit more serious though; I think the Ubuntu project is losing it. It started with Unity which many people started to dislike, then the desktop search tie-in with Amazon (I know 'El Reg' tends to exaggerate at times, but when many people openly protest on Shuttleworth's blog and questions about "how to get rid of..." also score high then I think El Reg got it right).

As if that wasn't enough the desktop project also felt inclined to follow Microsoft's course (or so they thought) by "dumping" Mono support over HTML5 and Javascript (for their desktop developing environment) even though Microsoft has stated time and time again that .NET wasn't going anywhere and would remain to be a major contender for developing software on Windows 8. While Microsoft stated that HTML5 and Javascript would be another extension, Ubuntu picked it up "a bit" differently.

Still; even if you consider of all these items bias (which they are to some degree) and ignore them you can't ignore the fact that many don't quite trust Ubuntu these days. They look at the project and only think "DRM, lock down, tie ins, selling privacy".'

So I think it might take a while before a new X-like environment coming from the Ubuntu camp actually makes it into the main world.


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## overmind (Jul 12, 2013)

fonz said:
			
		

> Ubuntu wish to profile themselves as a serious operating system, but (GNU/)Linux still has a reputation of being a toy for tinkering geeks
> 
> Disclaimer: the statement above has no basis in fact, it's just a stab in the dark.



What you said make sense. Well, in that case I don't care. It's for a good cause (to take pie from Windows market share).


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## ChalkBored (Jul 12, 2013)

overmind said:
			
		

> What you said make sense. Well, in that case I don't care. It's for a good cause (to take pie from win market share).



They closed their bug #1 saying that Windows is no longer an issue because mobile devices killed it.

Mir exists to bridge the transition to mobile devices.


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## kpedersen (Jul 12, 2013)

ShelLuser said:
			
		

> ...by "dumping" Mono support over HTML5 and Javascript (for their desktop developing environment)


Mono has never really been the desktop environment development language. I think only Tomboy was ever written using it but anyone else (who has the ability to write useful working software) chooses to write it in C or C++ anyway. So no real problem here.



			
				ShelLuser said:
			
		

> ... don't quite trust Ubuntu these days. They look at the project and only think "DRM, lock down, tie ins, selling privacy".


It seems a little bit sad but I imagine that this is also the reason why it is the most popular Linux distribution. For some reason, the average computer user loves DRM, lockdown, tie ins and having their privacy sold


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## ChalkBored (Jul 14, 2013)

kpedersen said:
			
		

> It seems a little bit sad but I imagine that this is also the reason why it is the most popular Linux distribution. For some reason, the average computer user loves DRM, lockdown, tie ins and having their privacy sold



dancing pigs problem.


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## noeyx (Jul 15, 2013)

Well we can't blame Canonical. It seems differentiation is their only way to gain profit.


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## Crivens (Jul 15, 2013)

kpedersen said:
			
		

> It seems a little bit sad but I imagine that this is also the reason why it is the most popular Linux distribution. For some reason, the average computer user loves DRM, lockdown, tie ins and having their privacy sold



The reason might be somewhere, and with Linux it is free at last!

Now seriously - what makes these locked down systems so attractive for many is the locking down. This means they can not mess with it and thus can not be responsible for it should something go wrong. And then they are not to be blamed.


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## throAU (Jul 16, 2013)

ShelLuser said:
			
		

> Hm, Mir is a space station which crashed down to Earth in 2001. Makes you wonder
> 
> A bit more serious though; I think the Ubuntu project is losing it. It started with Unity which many people started to dislike, then the desktop search tie-in with Amazon (I know 'El Reg' tends to exaggerate at times, but when many people openly protest on Shuttleworth's blog and questions about "how to get rid of..." also score high then I think El Reg got it right).



Don't forget that (like anything) a small problem will be posted about by a heap of whiners and not necessarily by the larger majority who have zero issue at all with it.  I'm sure there are plenty of people using unity without whining about it - they don't feel the need to post "Yeah, I'm running Unity and it is great!".

I understand initial versions sucked hard.  I've used the latest ubuntu release and whilst there are a few quirks I don't particularly like it is as slick as any other desktop for a general end user (Yes it has spyware type features that can be disabled - but what do you think Ubuntu's business model is?  Give stuff away for free forever?  You WILL pay in one way or another.  If not with money, then with data.).

Would I go out of my way to install it?  No.  But as a default, friendly UI it isn't a bad choice.

As far as popularity goes - users don't "want DRM" or "love DRM" inherently.  They just want things to work out of the box.  Many don't know or care about the DRM at all.  So long as it works, and Ubuntu does well in that area.

The percentage of users who actually know or care about DRM at all is very, very low.


edit:
On Mir... GPL3 notwithstanding, it looks like Mir is actually something that has been sorely needed in Unix/Linux land for some time now - a low level graphics platform that only provides a low level drawing API that targets GL for other software to sit on top of.  I.e., it doesn't necessarily replace Wayland, X, etc.  It sits underneath them, between them and the hardware.  

So for example X11, rather than having a video driver to talk directly to hardware, will just talk to a shim between it and Mir.  That means most of the driver stuff can be stripped out of X11.

I'm keen to know more - hopefully if it is decent, being an *API* it can be re-implemented under a different license if required.


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## kpa (Jul 16, 2013)

It's funny when people go all ballistic about DRM in this type of discussion and still don't really understand what it is. I challenge anyone to provide a concrete example of a kind of DRM in Linux or any free UNIX like OS that could be even compared to the Windows activation scheme. I'm pretty sure you can't. Prove me wrong. Individual applications that require a license code of some sort don't count. I'm asking for something that affects the OS directly.


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## throAU (Jul 17, 2013)

I think the whine people have is that if Linux "supports" DRM then people are showing their support for DRM content by being able to play it (and thus doing so).

Personally I have no problem with DRM - and it is about more than just pirate movie content.  I may want a framework to protect my own intellectual property from theft for example.  If a person owns content (be it music, video, top secret planning documents or whatever) it is up to the content owner what sort of restrictions they apply to it. 

Having a *framework* to enable them to do this is not a bad thing inherently in my view.


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## kpa (Jul 17, 2013)

I was more interested in hearing if something actually exists for Linux that enables (and can be enforced systemwide) the kind of DRM we have seen with Apple's iTunes or the Windows activation I already referred to. Going nuts over a hypothetical possibility when nothing actual exists is kinda hysterical to me.


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## throAU (Jul 17, 2013)

iTunes doesn't enforce systemwide DRM.  It facilitates validation and playback of DRM protected content.  iOS, secure-boot and gatekeeper do code signature checking but again, IMHO this is a good thing.

So long as I have the ability to sign my own code (which I do) I don't see the problem.

But yes, there's a heap of paranoia over "DRM" from people who don't seem to understand what it's about.


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## noeyx (Jul 23, 2013)

throAU said:
			
		

> Personally I have no problem with DRM - and it is about more than just pirate movie content.  I may want a framework to protect my own intellectual property from theft for example.  If a person owns content (be it music, video, top secret planning documents or whatever) it is up to the content owner what sort of restrictions they apply to it.



I agree. If these restrictions (DRM) are beneficial for the survival of a company, then so be it. Pirated content hurts the entertainment/software industry.


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