# Get FreeBSD better Linux...



## BloodyKid (Dec 12, 2008)

FreeBSD is best OS but Linux more popular, why?
Becouse Linux have best hardware support...

My question: why FreeBSD make lasy hardware drivers?
Imho Better hardware support make FreeBSD is best of best UNIX OS!

Ð’Ð¾Ñ‚ =)


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## MartijnAtLico (Dec 12, 2008)

The primary reason I switched from Linux to FreeBSD eight years ago was that FreeBSD had better support for my server hardware..  So in my opinion the FreeBSD hardware support is really not that bad! (for server use at least, I have little experience with FreeBSD on the desktop)


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## vermaden (Dec 12, 2008)

Because Linux has hype ...


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## graudeejs (Dec 12, 2008)

my point of view is that linux is becoming like windows, the only exception is that they ship bugs for free


btw.... lately i'm considering to try and maybe switch to OpenBSD (I like their philosophy)

I've already installed it on my usb flash


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## kamikaze (Dec 12, 2008)

BloodyKid said:
			
		

> FreeBSD is best OS but Linux more popular, why?
> Becouse Linux have best hardware support...
> 
> My question: why FreeBSD make lasy hardware drivers?
> ...


Go ahead, you're free to write more/better device drivers.

Anyway, that's your answer. Someone has got to do it.


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## bluetick (Dec 16, 2008)

I think in the early years, freebsd was overshadowed by the copyright issue with AT&T.  While linux was gaining a foothold with the people fed up with M$ only the dedicated kept working on freebsd.  Two years ago, I had a service man in the office for contract work on an IBM as400 server, he asked about the other servers, I told him they were running freebsd, He said â€œwhatâ€™s that?â€. 

The numbers on freebsd stats are a small percentage of the true number of installs.  I know how people feel about â€œforcedâ€ software in the base system, Iâ€™m one of them. Enabling the bsd stat, then giving the option to opt out during an install could help with hardware support from companies.


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## cliedo (Jan 21, 2009)

my humble opinion: with freebsd you can screw up and it forgives your uneducated or hobbiest attempts, it lets you discover new ways of getting things done. I tried rebuilding and failed, but discovered a new way of getting what I wanted to do. I have done all of them. I still smile when I get my computer working, bumbling through but still trying something not thought of, regardless of how people interpet the man pages, creativity never ceases thats why freebsd rocks


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## Pushrod (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm sure Linux's hardware support is directly related to the fact that there are more people working on Linux, there is more commercial support, and more people are using it.

FreeBSD supports all of my hardware though, and that's all I care about.


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## hitest (Jan 21, 2009)

FreeBSD supports my hardware, so I'm happy with it.


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## hydra (Jan 21, 2009)

I must agree with hitest, same here, very happy with it.


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## halplus (Jan 22, 2009)

nah is not because linux has more hardware support, is because of advertisement. Those previously only knowing about windows now discovered linux and say ohhh and don't know that there are better licenses around. Welcome to the world of ignorance.


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## mk (Jan 22, 2009)

halplus said:
			
		

> and don't know that there are better licenses around. Welcome to the world of ignorance.


license? what license? we speak for robust rock solid os with sky limit of places to be used/embedded? quantity is wallking hand to hand with quality put those two on one place and they beat any day any quantity of it-work-for-me-drivers. do not mistaken tools with toys.
or i missed something..


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## oliverh (Jan 22, 2009)

It's that easy: quality instead of quantity. Sometimes Linux is like a candy store but you can get some severe stomach pain.


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## Speedy (Jan 22, 2009)

BloodyKid said:
			
		

> FreeBSD is best OS but Linux more popular, why?
> Becouse Linux have best hardware support...
> 
> My question: why FreeBSD make lasy hardware drivers?
> ...


It's time to understand FOSS is versatile. You wouldn't want Linux to be BSD, BSD to be OS X ... etc. This gives us CHOICE. Something that is "good for everything" cannot be good by definition.

Bashing Linux does not make you l33t, it makes you look childish.


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## rliegh (Jan 23, 2009)

Speedy said:
			
		

> Bashing Linux does not make you l33t, it makes you look childish.


For the love of *GOD* I wish someone would add that to the forum title. ("The FreeBSD Forums - Remember, bashing Linux does not make you l33t" ):e


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## PetrusValidus (Jan 30, 2009)

> Remember, bashing Linux does not make you l33t



Does bashing Windows make me (or anyone) l33t?


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## vermaden (Jan 30, 2009)

rliegh said:
			
		

> For the love of *GOD* I wish someone would add that to the forum title. ("The FreeBSD Forums - Remember, bashing Linux does not make you l33t" ):e



Which god? There are too many too fit in the browser's title


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## rliegh (Feb 4, 2009)

vermaden said:
			
		

> Which god? There are too many too fit in the browser's title



Maybe use ${DEITY} instead?


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## gnemmi (Feb 4, 2009)

vermaden said:
			
		

> Because Linux has hype ...



hence



			
				Pushrod said:
			
		

> ... Linux's hardware support is directly related to the fact that there are more people working on Linux, there is more commercial support, and more people are using it.



and if FreeBSD doesn't support your hardware ...



			
				kamikaze said:
			
		

> Go ahead, you're free to write more/better device drivers.
> ...



Or even better: pay someone to do it for you 

Now, as far as I'm concerned:



			
				hitest said:
			
		

> FreeBSD supports my hardware, so I'm happy with it.



yet still ...



			
				killasmurf86 said:
			
		

> ...
> btw.... lately i'm considering to try and maybe switch to OpenBSD (I like their philosophy)...



Regards


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## paulfrottawa (Feb 5, 2009)

BloodyKid said:
			
		

> FreeBSD is best OS but Linux more popular, why?
> Becouse Linux have best hardware support...
> 
> My question: why FreeBSD make lasy hardware drivers?
> ...


 As a newbi to both linux and freebsd I was thankful to finally get freebsd installed. I was sold on the promise it was more stable and it holds true. When something does go wrong I know it was something I did.

I lost a few computers and hard drives installing linux distributions in the past. And I never had linux last longer than a couple of weeks before it stop working. (I won't name any names.)

I was a *beep**beep**beep**beep**beep* for me to learn to install freebsd and if I found pc-bsd first I would never had installed freebsd.


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## Djn (Feb 5, 2009)

paulfrottawa said:
			
		

> I was a *beep**beep**beep**beep**beep* for me to learn to install freebsd and if I found pc-bsd first I would never had installed freebsd.



Technically speaking, you would still have.


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## Trebuchet (Feb 5, 2009)

I would have to throw a finger in this, even though it is an old thread.
Bashing Windows, Linux, Solaris, OS X is just silly and a waste of time. It is a good thing that we have these choices, and each option does a specific job, each has its strong points and its faults. 

First of all - FreeBSD is not the best OS, just ask someone running Solaris or another running Linux. What would you say to the other people running OpenBSD or NetBSD? And I highly doubt that you will find a user of a Mac that works in the music or photography realm that would agree with the statement that FreeBSD is the best OS. FreeBSD is the best OS to those who choose to use it, and use it correctly (some day I hope I do.) 

May it be the best server platform available? - I would would have to hang my hat on that. 
But is it the best OS to run Photoshop? No.
Is it the best OS for grandma wanting to check email? No.
Is it the best solution for someone who works in a 100% MS office/job site? No.
Everything has its job. Nothing is perfect. Other wise we would all be using the same system, and more than likely paying through the nose for it.

In my humble opinion, the reason why Linux has popularity over *BSD is due to the marketing that was accomplished. Why did Microsoft take off - follow the money! While Linux was busy on grabbing a foothold BSD was fighting for its survival in the Unix wars. Linux also is easy to install, easy to configure. FreeBSD is that as well, but only to the geeks who know and understand it. 

Think on this for a second -
What would become of FreeBSD if the likes Adobe, Nvida, Sun, HP, Intel, etc put their money and resources behind FreeBSD, completely, like they do for Microsoft and Mac? What would it be like if evry device we buy came with drivers for FreeBSD? What would happen if Dell and the like started shipping boxes with FreeBSD pre-loaded? What would happen if companies started porting applications like Quickbooks and Photoshop to BSD?
We would more than likey wind up with another Windows to *beep**beep**beep**beep**beep* about. Be happy with FreeBSD and what it is.


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## asapilu (Feb 7, 2009)

Well i know many people think windows is best OS. They LOVE windows and buy hardware just for running last version of windows and nothing else. x(

Also companies support and commercial software NEVER make one OS better than another for example when an OS crash photoshop NEVER do anything. (well i use gimp :e)

FreeBSD is best OS because of itself. just look at it's stability, ports, handbook and ...


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## fronclynne (Feb 10, 2009)

Whatever I use is the best, dagnabit.  And right now I am going to install some ceviche.


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## nuBSDuser (Mar 20, 2009)

I love linux and can do anything real easy have not had that experience with freebsd  I love compiz and gnome whice work great on linux and the support on linux is great


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## DutchDaemon (Mar 20, 2009)

Try not to "get" FreeBSD from a Linux mindset. It will not work. FreeBSD is not 'easy'. And that's exactly why John F. Kennedy would have loved it.



> We choose to go to
> the moon in this decade and do the other things,
> not because they are easy, but because they are
> hard, because that goal will serve to organize
> ...



Invest in learning FreeBSD and you will find great rewards, as everyone here will tell you. It's more difficult than learning to ride a bike. But then again: where does biking get you? Better learn how to build them.


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## vivek (Mar 21, 2009)

Operating system is like religion (so pick your poison). Every existing user has one or has an opinion (it may be good or bad) about existing oses. 

Every os user is biased. a) Some  believe in Open Source (at the cost of usability, especially desktop apps) , b) some truly believe in MS monoculture and c) some like Apple kind of gay DRM overloaded expensive  stuff. d) Others praise whomever pays their bills.

Right now FreeBSD pays all by bills. So my views are biased towards FreeBSD


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## oliverh (Mar 21, 2009)

Don't forget e) most people using FreeBSD are also using Linux and Windows professionally 

>Others praise whomever pays their bills.

A rare condition among FreeBSD users ...


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## vivek (Mar 22, 2009)

> Don't forget e) most people using FreeBSD are also using Linux and Windows professionally


Oh.. I agree, I used to work at a large bank and only allowed desktop operating system was Windows XP.


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## absolutezero1287 (Nov 16, 2009)

Trebuchet said:
			
		

> Bashing Windows, Linux, Solaris, OS X is just silly and a waste of time. It is a good thing that we have these choices, and each option does a specific job, each has its strong points and its faults.


Very true. An operating system is a tool and nothing more. You use what works for you.




			
				Trebuchet said:
			
		

> Think on this for a second -
> What would become of FreeBSD if the likes Adobe, Nvida, Sun, HP, Intel, etc put their money and resources behind FreeBSD, completely, like they do for Microsoft and Mac? What would it be like if every device we buy came with drivers for FreeBSD? What would happen if Dell and the like started shipping boxes with FreeBSD pre-loaded? What would happen if companies started porting applications like Quickbooks and Photoshop to BSD?
> We would more than likey wind up with another Windows to *beep**beep**beep**beep**beep* about. Be happy with FreeBSD and what it is.



I have to disagree on this point. I think that any type of support whether its corporate or not is good. 

Nvidia writes drivers for Linux. It would be awesome if they wrote drivers for FreeBSD. 

I think what users are afraid of is FreeBSD bending to the will of the corporations, e.g. Apple including DRM in OS X at the request of record labels. However, the beauty of opensource software is that you are free to change and improve things. So in the HIGHLY unlikely event that an "anti-feature" like DRM was added someone would've removed it.

Dell ships boxes with FreeBSD....I'm sorry but I don't see the "evil" coming from something like that. I see more users discovering FreeBSD thereby giving the OS more of a foothold in the market. If more people start to use FOSS then companies like Adobe, NVidia, Intel, and AMD would be forced to support FreeBSD and possibly other *BSDs. This doesn't mean that they will have creative control, though. This means that they will be more inclined to contribute code to the project because its what their customers want.

So how is this a terrible thing? Personally, I'd like to see some software that is Windows only on Linux or FreeBSD. Especially certain games that only come out for Windows and OS X.


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## SirDice (Nov 16, 2009)

absolutezero1287 said:
			
		

> I have to disagree on this point. I think that any type of support whether its corporate or not is good.
> 
> Nvidia writes drivers for Linux. It would be awesome if they wrote drivers for FreeBSD.


Errr.. They do.. x11/nvidia-driver and http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=47


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## absolutezero1287 (Nov 17, 2009)

SirDice said:
			
		

> Errr.. They do.. x11/nvidia-driver and http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=47



I see. Well the point of my post was not about whether or not NVidia makes drivers for FreeBSD. It was whether or not corporate support for FreeBSD (or any FOSS OS) is inherently "good".


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## mix_room (Nov 17, 2009)

absolutezero1287 said:
			
		

> Dell ships boxes with FreeBSD....I'm sorry but I don't see the "evil" coming from something like that.


They do? Or are you talking about the possibility that they might, sometime in the far future, ship boxes with FreeBSD?


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## absolutezero1287 (Nov 17, 2009)

mix_room said:
			
		

> They do? Or are you talking about the possibility that they might, sometime in the far future, ship boxes with FreeBSD?



I was talking about the possibility. Dell shipping boxes with FreeBSD is just an example of corporate support.

Trebuchet asked:
What would happen if Dell and the like started shipping boxes with FreeBSD pre-loaded?

And I opine that support of this nature would not be a bad thing at all because of the increase of users. More users means that large corporations would have to support FOSS operating systems just as much as they would proprietary ones. It would level the playing field.


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## SirDice (Nov 17, 2009)

absolutezero1287 said:
			
		

> I was talking about the possibility. Dell shipping boxes with FreeBSD is just an example of corporate support.
> 
> Trebuchet asked:
> What would happen if Dell and the like started shipping boxes with FreeBSD pre-loaded?



What about Dell just supplying the "iron" and the _hardware_ support. There are several other companies that can support FreeBSD.


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## absolutezero1287 (Nov 17, 2009)

SirDice said:
			
		

> What about Dell just supplying the "iron" and the _hardware_ support. There are several other companies that can support FreeBSD.



True enough but Dell giving users the option to have FreeBSD preinstalled will get more people interested in it.


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## dennylin93 (Nov 17, 2009)

absolutezero1287 said:
			
		

> True enough but Dell giving users the option to have FreeBSD preinstalled will get more people interested in it.



It's a possibility, but I suspect that most users would want to install FreeBSD themselves.


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## Trebuchet (Nov 17, 2009)

I need to explain better what I wanted to say before. 

Yes, there are many companies that write propriety drivers for their hardware and are ported to BSD. Mainly though, most are written for Linux (due to demand). But when you get down to it, it is the bottom line that controls what becomes available and what doesn't; just like anything else. The bottom line is the world revolves around money, and companies need to justify the expense of production through sales. I would tend to be hesitant towards major corporations becoming too involved in Open Source because in the end they still need to put paychecks in employees hands at the end of the week. If Open Source stays where it is with people writing code for the love of it and their OS rather than a paycheck, time restraint, corporate demands, and the like, we all benefit. When products are controlled by the bottom line you will see the same problems that Microsoft faces because the system is controlled by the bottom line rather than quality. And to boot, we will get to start paying for it. If you are running a BSD Server, do you really want things to radically change?

Think about this for a second, without prejudice, what could Windows be if Microsoft did not have to answer to investors and even dared to open up code to the Open Source community? Better?


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## oliverh (Nov 17, 2009)

>Think about this for a second, without prejudice, what could Windows be if Microsoft did not have to answer to investors and even dared to open up code to the Open Source community? Better?

Maybe, but "too many cooks spoil the broth" comes to my mind too at once.

>If Open Source stays where it is with people writing code for the love of it

Charming, the good old days. But did they ever exist? I don't think so. Today at least it's impossible to do the major work without money in the background.


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## SirDice (Nov 17, 2009)

Trebuchet said:
			
		

> Yes, there are many companies that write propriety drivers for their hardware and are ported to BSD. Mainly though, most are written for Linux (due to demand). But when you get down to it, it is the bottom line that controls what becomes available and what doesn't; just like anything else. The bottom line is the world revolves around money, and companies need to justify the expense of production through sales. I would tend to be hesitant towards major corporations becoming too involved in Open Source because in the end they still need to put paychecks in employees hands at the end of the week.


Please realize that _hardware_ manufactures do not make money creating software/drivers. They make money selling hardware.

So I'm actually quite happy if a hardware manufacturer opens up it's specs so someone else (the OSS community) can write drivers for it. If they can't open up the specs (Intellectual Property; which may or may not be theirs to begin with) I'm happy if they can supply a driver, closed source or not (a la NVidia). If neither of this is happening I just don't buy their hardware.


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## absolutezero1287 (Nov 17, 2009)

Trebuchet said:
			
		

> I need to explain better what I wanted to say before.
> 
> Yes, there are many companies that write propriety drivers for their hardware and are ported to BSD. Mainly though, most are written for Linux (due to demand). But when you get down to it, it is the bottom line that controls what becomes available and what doesn't; just like anything else. The bottom line is the world revolves around money, and companies need to justify the expense of production through sales. I would tend to be hesitant towards major corporations becoming too involved in Open Source because in the end they still need to put paychecks in employees hands at the end of the week. If Open Source stays where it is with people writing code for the love of it and their OS rather than a paycheck, time restraint, corporate demands, and the like, we all benefit. When products are controlled by the bottom line you will see the same problems that Microsoft faces because the system is controlled by the bottom line rather than quality. And to boot, we will get to start paying for it. If you are running a BSD Server, do you really want things to radically change?
> 
> Think about this for a second, without prejudice, what could Windows be if Microsoft did not have to answer to investors and even dared to open up code to the Open Source community? Better?



You make it sound like you can't profit off of FOSS. Redhat would like to speak with you.

Anyways, the point that I was trying to make was that if more people started using FOSS, be it Linux, HaikuOS, BSD, or other then companies would have to start porting MORE applications and drivers.

The excuses I've heard from some people for not using FOSS was "I can't play this game on it or run this app" and WINE doesn't do the trick.


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## saxon3049 (Nov 18, 2009)

To be honest this is all a little hypothetical, MS has desktop dominance for a reason and that is because unlike most people on this forum the average user likes to have a system that to borrow a term from apple "*Just works*" most of them can not even name a programming language and most of them haven't got a clue about how a computer really works or to be frank care, what they look for in a computer is will it get my email, will it find me a funny cat picture and will it get onto myspace? I have had a few DIY users come to me after a sleepless night after formatting a system and reinstalling windows and not able to get onto a network because they haven't installed the correct driver when I tell them as such I get a blank look and the question "what's a driver?" they assume computers work automagicaly a sorry state of affairs I know but windows makes being non technical easer. 

The MS family of OS's has better driver support because more people use it and the reason other OS's are a second thought is market share that is the way it is going to stay unless there is a economic reason to make drivers open source. 

Linux has a lot of driver support in the server world because when back in the 90's uni students wanted a unix workstation of there own they looked around and found FreeBSD and saw the AT&T struggle and backed away and used Linux because it looked more stable in terms of is it going to be here in 5 years time and thought yes it is, then when they got sweaped up in the .com boom what did they chose for cost of implementation in a data centre? their favourite flavour of Linux. Now lots of the .com people are working for companies that write drivers and they now write drivers for linux and windows and because the BSD's don't really figure in there sphere of conciousness they wont write drivers for it.

One thing that I feel important to mention at this point is the drive for unix on the desktop, I believe that any unix OS can be shaped into a very capable desktop OS, but and it's a big but only for the technical user. Unix on the desktop could possibly in my mind at least hurt the cause no end people might interact with unix systems every day on the internet but they don't know this and don't really care as long as they can get email, myspace and youtube they don't give a second thought. But most people buy anything on ease of use and because they come from a background where being a idiot is less painful and then jump into a OS that you can screw up and lose all hope or end up tearing your hair out will make them back off and say never again. I will provide a example below -

In my house we have a 20in iMac at first my mum loved it she could go online chat to friends and read home work from her students, but the moment she had a "technical issue" in her own words I got a phone call while I was on the other side of the EU to my mobile at a exorbitant fee to ask "Chris it's asking me for my password and something is jumping on the bottom of the screen how do I make it go away?" to me that is saying OSX wanted a update but to her it was a really scary moment of lack of knowledge, my mum is a teacher in basic IT for people with learning difficulties she can beat me hands down when it comes to doing something in word or excel but the moment something technical comes up she is rapidly out of her depth as are less experienced users. 

Another example is my Dad, he is a nuclear engineer and has experience with computers dating back from the days when they occupied a whole room with men in white lab coats tending to them, now he uses them every day and has done so for the last 25 years, he was one of the first to buy himself a eeePC running linux because he got it with a 3g dongle on a contract to keep in touch while he was away from home, he wasn't able to save some paperwork he needed to take to work the next day because he could not find his USB pen, so i walked him through it over the phone, when he came home he asked me to install XP and has never looked at a unix OS again and refuses even to use the "idiot proof" mac because he knows its a form of unix this is a guy who can quite happily work out in his head the safety margins for a reactor and has had no problem walking into a reactor room of a recently shutdown reactor that is still hot to repair a weld that is not upto spec he is intimidated by his own lack of understanding and most people are. 

Sadly the world is not ready for unix as a desktop because 98% of the world is non technical and kinda regard people who are as the fonts of all knowledge almost as some form of modern day priesthood who intervene with the deities of technology on there behalf when the evils of the modern world raise there heads. 

sorry for prattling on I got on my high horse and couldn't get down.


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## kpedersen (Nov 18, 2009)

FreeBSD hardware support is perfect for me.

If in doubt... buy a Thinkpad 
Mac OS X is to a Macbook as FreeBSD is to a Thinkpad 

T60, R60, Z60t, T23 all work great.

a T42 wasn't so hot with the Radeon gfxcard but apparently others have got it working fine.

Plus they are really cheap. R60 was only Â£290 from Insight UK.


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## saxon3049 (Nov 18, 2009)

I last tired FreeBSD on a TP T43p with that weird ATi card and it wasn't gona happen.


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## kpedersen (Nov 18, 2009)

Hmmm... But on the plus side, Windows 7 and Vista do not support that card either 

Users have to use Standard VGA adapter making the OS look unusably ugly.


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## foldingstock (Nov 18, 2009)

Trebuchet said:
			
		

> Think on this for a second -
> What would become of FreeBSD if the likes Adobe, Nvida, Sun, HP, Intel, etc put their money and resources behind FreeBSD, completely, like they do for Microsoft and Mac? What would it be like if evry device we buy came with drivers for FreeBSD? What would happen if Dell and the like started shipping boxes with FreeBSD pre-loaded? What would happen if companies started porting applications like Quickbooks and Photoshop to BSD?
> We would more than likey wind up with another Windows to *beep**beep**beep**beep**beep* about. Be happy with FreeBSD and what it is.



_What would become of FreeBSD if the likes Adobe, Nvida, Sun, HP, Intel, etc put their money and resources behind FreeBSD, completely, like they do for Microsoft and Mac?_

If that happened, FreeBSD would suffer from the same bloat and insecurity Windows does, to a limited degree.  HP drivers in particular are responsible for many crashes I have experienced on Windows. I swear some of the drivers HP releases....they'll just get stuck in an endless loop using 99% of the CPU. I'd rather not have this on FreeBSD.


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## absolutezero1287 (Nov 18, 2009)

foldingstock said:
			
		

> _What would become of FreeBSD if the likes Adobe, Nvida, Sun, HP, Intel, etc put their money and resources behind FreeBSD, completely, like they do for Microsoft and Mac?_
> 
> If that happened, FreeBSD would suffer from the same bloat and insecurity Windows does, to a limited degree.  HP drivers in particular are responsible for many crashes I have experienced on Windows. I swear some of the drivers HP releases....they'll just get stuck in an endless loop using 99% of the CPU. I'd rather not have this on FreeBSD.



I don't know about all that. I use hplip on Ubuntu for my printer and everything works flawlessly.

I think with FreeBSD's strong development system (distribution of authority and all that) the companies won't be able to "mess up FB". I'm not saying that corporations won't release crappy software. It is a possibility but if they release open source drivers then the FOSS community can correct any blunders the so-called "experts" make.


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