# hardware for workstation



## rootbert (Jul 22, 2019)

hi guys,

After more than 9 years with my current computer it is time for me to upgrade. My view on how one should life is quite radical when it comes to environmental topics, thus this system should be as environmentally friendly as possible, ready for some upgrades in a few years.

For my job I need quite some VMs to run, so basically for me this leaves 3 topics to give me some enlightenment:

*) CPU: I tend to use the newest generation of AMDs Ryzen CPUs. Is FreeBSD (-stable) really running stable on AMDs or are there some quirks? (as I have always been given the suggestion to buy Intel CPUs)

*) bhyve: I have read about bhyve GPU pass-thru, however could not find out if that was on -current. I plan to use one monitor as an additional virtualized desktop with its own passed throuh USB keyboard and mouse. Is this scenario already possible in -stable 12 and as a side note, it would be cool to also have sound passed through for some gaming in a VM. So basically 2 persons working on the machine simultaneously, one on the host and one in the VM.
Also: how is it with bhyve pause/resume or migrate - will this feature be in 12.1? (OpenBSDs vmd is so nice in this regard but does not offer a good filesystem ;-)

*) Graphics: what is the suggested chip manufacturer or graphics card (or maybe a 2nd equivalent card for bhyve passthrough) for the scenario mentioned above?

thanks for your tipps and comments!


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## shkhln (Jul 23, 2019)

rootbert said:


> *) bhyve: I have read about bhyve GPU pass-thru



It does _not_ work reliably. (And if somebody mentions nonsensical BusID workaround for Nvidia, punch them in the face.)


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## Phishfry (Jul 23, 2019)

shkhln said:


> (And if somebody mentions nonsensical BusID workaround for Nvidia, punch them in the face.)


That's not fair. You know I had it working and others did as per the web posts that started this.
Plus it was featured on the FreeBSD video site with Allan Jude.

I think this comes down to hardware. Both SuperMicro X9SRL and X10SRI work with GT7xx Nvidia. 3 video cards to be exact.
Where I had trouble was getting keyboard/mouse to each desktop.

Look at the mailing list. We might be gaining VGA and HDA audio too with Bhyve.


			New video BIOS for bhyve
		



			[Bug 239341] HDA support doesn't work for me


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## shkhln (Jul 23, 2019)

Phishfry said:


> That's not fair. You know I had it working and others did as per the web posts that started this.



It's your hardware configuration, the kernel driver doesn't care about Xorg configs.



Phishfry said:


> I think this comes down to hardware. Both SuperMicro X9SRL and X10SRI work with GT7xx Nvidia. 3 cards to be exact.



Yes, but we don't have enough information to make an educated guess whether it would work on even a slightly different hardware.



Phishfry said:


> Plus it was featured on the FreeBSD video site with Allan Jude.



Meh.


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## Phishfry (Jul 23, 2019)

rootbert said:


> Also: how is it with bhyve pause/resume or migrate - will this feature be in 12.1?


We dont have that but the guys working on CBSD were working on it I remember reading recently.


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## Phishfry (Jul 23, 2019)

I think the video card assigned to VM is a BIOS thing. You must set everything to EFI Including Option ROMS.
Some boards do not have EFI settings for option ROM. The SuperMicro board have settings on top of settings.

For the original poster, this is what I want to try. EPYC on SuperMicro H11 boards. That is some serious hardware





						Supermicro SuperBlades, uGPU, AI System, Multi-Node Servers
					

The premier provider of advanced Server Building Block Solutions® for 5G/Edge, Data Center, Cloud, Enterprise, Big Data, HPC and Embedded markets worldwide.




					www.supermicro.com


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## shkhln (Jul 23, 2019)

Phishfry said:


> You know I had it working and others did as per the web posts that started this.



By the way, I only know about you. The original "BusID" tweet didn't specify hardware and I'm not aware of any other people with working GPU passthrough (with Nvidia's blob).


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## Phishfry (Jul 23, 2019)

Yes but there was a picture of the box on his tweet. It was a GT710.
I went and bought 4 of them for testing by that picture alone. They are useful to me because they come in 8x PCIe format.
I had previously been enamored by some Nvidia Quadro 1X PCIe NVS290/NVS300 video cards I put in some headless servers with only a 4x free slot.


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## shkhln (Jul 23, 2019)

You are mixing things up a bit. Nobody ever was able to make the card from https://twitter.com/bhyve_dev/status/760265198070411264 work, or, at least, it was never reported to work. The "BusID" tweet features an RTX 2070, but that tells us precisely nothing.

I have no beef with that person either, I assume that BusID bit is a genuine mistake. It just that people uncritically repeating the same bullshit get on my nerves. It shows how _little_ interest there is in bhyve GPU passthrough.


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## Phishfry (Jul 23, 2019)

What I did was tie all three Bhyve video cards into my Belkin KVM switch. That way I could flip between my hpyervisor and VM desktops with the flip of a switch or hotkey. That was my goal and it worked.
Once I scaled the peak I had to ask myself, What exactly do you need 3 desktops for? I do all my desktop work from a laptop.
I keep a Linux laptop for a Linux desktop. Same with Windows. I have a CAD laptop I use only for work.

I could see one bhyve server serving up 4 workers desktop in a small office.
You would need a motherboard with  8-10 slots unless you want to software emulate keyboard/mouse..


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## rootbert (Jul 23, 2019)

is going with virtualbox a better option than bhyve for this scenario?


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## Alain De Vos (Jul 23, 2019)

The future is bhyve, but the drivers are "work in progress". On the other hand the sound and video drivers for Virtualbox are stable. Then there is qemu which is very slow.


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## shkhln (Jul 23, 2019)

rootbert said:


> is going with virtualbox a better option than bhyve for this scenario?



VirtualBox = no PCI passthrough at all


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## Alain De Vos (Jul 24, 2019)

Does PCI passthrough has a professional application ?


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## rootbert (Jul 25, 2019)

don't know exactly what you mean.
but my workstation should also be a showcase for using freebsd in an office, I want to suggest this scenario to some of my customers...


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## rootbert (Aug 11, 2019)

what would be a good graphics card - AMD or nvidia? gpu passthrough is off the list if it is not stable ... might evaluate linux for this stuff. but I would use several monitors for work and maybe some gaming once in a while when I reboot to linux/steam (though thisbis not important and my 9 year old 1GB nvidia card can be used for my games)


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## steveoc64 (Aug 12, 2019)

There is a "new" ASUS X570 / AM4 board that officially supports ECC DDR4.

No gamer bling - just very understated flat black with a "built for pros" logo on the VRM heatsink.  Dual nics, etc.

Being sold through mainstream channels, at mainstream++ pricing ... looks like a good option for a BSD Workstation.


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## rootbert (Aug 12, 2019)

looks nice, but the supermicro suggestion also sounds nice. what graphics card manufacturer do you recommend?


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## Phishfry (Aug 12, 2019)

rootbert said:


> what would be a good graphics card - AMD or nvidia?


You could make a whole forum for just that question!!
Chocolate or Vanilla?
Ford or Chevrolet?


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## rootbert (Aug 12, 2019)

ok then I will throw a coin ;-)


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## olli@ (Aug 12, 2019)

rootbert said:


> what graphics card manufacturer do you recommend?


I'm very happy with my Nvidia GT 1030. It's inexpensive, low power consumption, more than enough power for office / desktop / video use. Also, 3D acceleration is supported, so those cool 3D screen savers work fine (for showing off).  Also, 3D OpenGL games like CrackAttack run flawlessly with maximum quality settings. I'm using a curved UWQHD screen (3440 × 1440), but also tried it with my 65" UHD TV, which also worked fine and produced an amazing image quality. Unfortunately, that TV is a tad large for my desk …

My previous mainboard had on-board AMD graphics. It was more difficult to get it working reliably with FreeBSD, the experience was not as smooth as with the Nvidia card. Therefore, my recommendation is Nvidia. But that's based on my personal experience only, yours may differ.

As far as VMs are concerned, I'm using VirtualBox because it supports passing my Blu-Ray drive into the guest (Linux VM). Bhyve does not support that.


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## rootbert (Aug 13, 2019)

concerning mainboards: just read that the supermicro X11SSH-TF which is compatiblebwith coreboot, which sounds awesome! it also comes with two Intel X550 10Gbit cards which are supported by FreeBSD


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## rootbert (Aug 26, 2019)

one more thing: does anyone know if nested virtualization with bhyve is being worked on?


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## Phishfry (Aug 26, 2019)

Did yaw see this post over the weekend? Re:ThreadRipper 2990W


			Panic on boot with r351461 (AMD ThreadRipper 2990WX)
		


I don't think such a new platform is a good idea unless you want to be a tester on -CURRENT.....


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## rootbert (Aug 26, 2019)

oh, no. thanks. I was suspecting this because there are various threads on the forums concerning AMD cpus ... but I did not want to believe it because I really want to avoid Intel cpus.


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## Phishfry (Aug 26, 2019)

Reading more on this I see this from Matt at Dragonfly


			http://apollo.backplane.com/DFlyMisc/threadripper.txt
		


He seems to have good things to say about threadripper.
Maybe the above problem is just some problem with -CURRENT. That is the mailing list it came from.


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## Phishfry (Aug 26, 2019)

rootbert said:


> just read that the supermicro X11SSH-TF


Yes this looks very interesting to me. Run OpenBMC on the AST2400 and we really have something open.








						First modern coreboot server platform
					

As part of the System Transparency project and partnership with Mullvad, we ported the Supermicro X11SSH-TF server platform to coreboot.




					9esec.io
				



My only issue is I don't want 10G-BaseT and that drives this board price up over $150 above X11-SSH-F without 10G.
So will this coreboot firmware also work on all X11-SSH variants....








						GitHub - openbmc/meta-aspeed: Layer for aspeed chip bsp
					

Layer for aspeed chip bsp. Contribute to openbmc/meta-aspeed development by creating an account on GitHub.




					github.com


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## kpedersen (Aug 26, 2019)

steveoc64 said:


> with a "built for pros" logo on the VRM heatsink.



It looks good; but I would actually still have to sand off the "built for pros" slogan before I am happy to use it XD


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## Phishfry (Aug 26, 2019)

You might need to buff up that Crystal Sound logo too.
What about the TPU chip. What-in the heck is that anyway? Never heard of it.
If that Realtek chip is the LAN then we can go clay-pidgin shooting with it.
#edit# Intel LAN








						Pro WS X570-ACE   | Motherboards | ASUS Global
					

Pro WS X570-ACE




					www.asus.com
				



##edit2## So we have Intel LAN and RealTek onboard...


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## olli@ (Aug 26, 2019)

Phishfry said:


> What about the TPU chip. What-in the heck is that anyway? Never heard of it.


Basically it's a chip that controls overclocking. Here's the marketing speak and here are some more technical information.


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## CraigHB (Aug 26, 2019)

steveoc64 said:


> No gamer bling



What is with that these days.  By the looks of what's out there anyone who puts together a computer is using a transparent case and only uses it to play games.  I don't know maybe that's true, but it's annoying how everything consumer is covered in logos and animated LEDS now.  Seems like a waste to me.


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## olli@ (Aug 26, 2019)

CraigHB said:


> What is with that these days.  By the looks of what's out there anyone who puts together a computer is using a transparent case and only uses it to play games.  I don't know maybe that's true, but it's annoying how everything consumer is covered in logos and animated LEDS now.  Seems like a waste to me.


Apparently it's true that the majority of consumers who build their own PC from components (mainboard, CPU, RAM, storage etc.) are gamers and hardware enthusiasts. “Normal” consumers who need a PC for office applications, web browser & mail (and maybe just occasional games) rarely build their own, but buy a ready-made PC.

Fortunately, my Asus Ryzen mainboard has a single switch in the BIOS setup to turn all of the LED stuff off completely (except for the diagnostic and power LED, of course). Interestingly, it is attached as a USB HID device; FreeBSD locates it thusly:

```
ugen0.2: <AsusTek Computer Inc. AURA LED Controller> at usbus0
uhid0: <AsusTek Computer Inc. AURA LED Controller, class 0/0, rev 2.00/2.00, addr 1> on usbus0
```
So it might be possible to control the LEDs with usbhidctl(1), but I haven't gotten around to actually play with it. If it works, this might be a nice way to visualize system parameters. For example, let the LEDs glow red if the system load exceeds a certain threshold. Or let it blink green if a long-running job is done (e.g. buildkernel). Provided, of course, that your PC casing is at least partially translucent.


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## CraigHB (Aug 26, 2019)

I wouldn't be able to see them since I have zero interest in a transparent or window case, but for diagnostics with the cover off that might put them to a use that makes them less of a waste anyway.


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## steveoc64 (Aug 27, 2019)

lol yes. its everywhere.

Its kind of annoying in as much as its making assumptions about the consumer's intentions in how its going to be used. Even more annoying knowing that their assumptions are right for 90% of the market 

I would buy a HP or Dell, but then they would assume I need windows  or linux even. errrr... nope.

Cant buy a smartphone without the assumption that I cant live without taking a selfie every 5 minutes.

Even cameras assume that my number 1 goal is to post as many shots to Instagram as fast as possible. Thank goodness for Pentax.

Cars assume I need Facebook on the dash to get from A to B.

How long till phones, cameras and cars catch the RGB craze too I wonder? actually.. don't answer that please.

All good reasons why Freebsd appeals, for staying true to solid and reasonable ideas


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## CraigHB (Aug 28, 2019)

steveoc64 said:


> Cant buy a smartphone without the assumption that I cant live without taking a selfie every 5 minutes.



Got a chuckle out of that.  Yeah it's pretty annoying how makers assume a use for the products they make, I guess it's just the way of marketing.  Though definitely products made consolations for non-targeted usage way more than they do now.  I run into that a lot where my usage doesn't fit in that little square box.

It's ironic though, I curse my laptop computer because it doesn't have a drive indicator led, yet other things are covered with them that serve no function other than to annoy me with electromagnetic radiation.


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## gpw928 (Sep 2, 2019)

CraigHB said:


> I curse my laptop computer because it doesn't have a drive indicator led


I sorely miss the "write protect" button that every self-respecting disk drive used to have right next to the drive access indicator light...   It was genuinely useful...  30 years of progress...


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## CraigHB (Sep 2, 2019)

The market dictates what is and isn't useful.  Seems the people actually using the stuff have no say in the matter.


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