# FreeBSD 11.0-RELEASE downgrade to 10.3-RELEASE



## NuLL3rr0r (Mar 19, 2017)

Hi,

I would like to downgrade one of my production servers from 11.0-RELEASE to 10.3-RELEASE and never done this before. Technically it should be possible; although I'm not sure whether the procedure is the same as upgrading or not. In spite of having backups, I don't want to risk messing up anything since I need to keep the down-time as low as possible. So, I thought it might be a good idea to ask the experts opinions on this.

Here is my procedure:


```
$ cd /usr/ && rm -rf src
$ svnlite checkout http://svn.freebsd.org/base/releng/10.3 /usr/src/

$ nvim /usr/src/sys/amd64/conf/CUSTOM
########
include         GENERIC
ident           CUSTOM

# Quota
options         QUOTA
########

$ cd /usr/src/ && make clean
$ cd /usr/obj/ && rm -rf *
$ cd /usr/src/ && make buildworld -j3 && make buildkernel -j3 KERNCONF=CUSTOM

$ make installkernel KERNCONF=CUSTOM
$ nextboot -o "-s" -k kernel
$ shutdown -r now

$ mount -u /
$ mount -a -t ufs
$ adjkerntz -i

$ mergemaster -p
$ cd /usr/src/
$ make installworld
$ mergemaster
$ shutdown -r now

; checking logs for any possible errors
$ tail /var/log/messages

$ cd /usr/src/
$ make check-old
$ make -DBATCH_DELETE_OLD_FILES delete-old
$ make -DBATCH_DELETE_OLD_FILES delete-old-libs

$ cd /usr/src/ && make clean
$ cd /usr/obj/ && rm -rf *

$ pkg-static install -f pkg
$ portupgrade -afk
```

Am I missing something here?

Your help will be appreciated. Thank you.


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## Remington (Mar 20, 2017)

Looks like you got everything covered.


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## ANOKNUSA (Mar 20, 2017)

Remington, have you ever actually tried this yourself? I doubt it will work myself. I've never heard of anybody actually _downgrading_ an installation, _especially across major versions._ Ever.

NuLL3rr0r, I'd skip the bother and do a clean install.


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## nekoexmachina (Mar 20, 2017)

As far as I know, downgrading even minor versions is not supported. 

I'd do what you want to do in a VM to test that, if you really really need it, but in other cases - I'd install it from scratch.


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## Remington (Mar 22, 2017)

I've done it before but doing it from scratch is better IMHO.


ANOKNUSA said:


> Remington, have you ever actually tried this yourself? I doubt it will work myself. I've never heard of anybody actually _downgrading_ an installation, _especially across major versions._ Ever.
> 
> NuLL3rr0r, I'd skip the bother and do a clean install.



You can actually downgrade if you didn't rebuild all ports but you will have to compile everything from sources.  But you're right, it's not ideal nor clean rollback so doing it over from scratch is better especially for a production server.


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## gkontos (Mar 22, 2017)

The real question here is why would you want to downgrade a production server? 

Officially, there is no downgrade path for major releases. The OP is using ports and he is also planning on using ports-mgmt/portupgrade to rebuild them. Reinstalling is definitely safer and faster.


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## NuLL3rr0r (Mar 22, 2017)

Well, thank you all for the suggestions. Unfortunately, a reinstall is too much of headache at the moment since I have to restore too much data/configuration to this VPS. Not to mention the down time. I see two possible workarounds:

1. Leave it alone until FreeBSD 11.1-RELEASE comes out and hope my troubles are all gone, then do an upgrade
2. As suggested by nekoexmachina try it inside a VM to see if everything goes smoothly then do a downgrade

gkontos as for why I want to downgrade: Unfortunately, I hit the brick wall with 11.0-RELEASE on both bare metal and VM. This thread threads/59217 is one good sample for a specific case. Or, this post on the same thread is an example of a generic case (there were other issues such as security/sshguard incompatibilities with ipfw changes which were reported to the developer(s) and resolved over time). Hence, based on a few similar experiences if I do a clean install these days I'll definitely go with 10.3-RELEASE as it's a very rock-solid release and has two more years of support.

Of course, I had successful 11.0-RELEASE installs too, which (except the generic issues I mentioned earlier) they all work flawlessly. So, I still appreciate the improvements the latest release introduced to FreeBSD.

To sum up, it's just a matter of preference. 10.3-RELEASE is a proven choice for me that brought many great experiences. I would like to keep 11.X branch at bay until it reaches the same stability level.


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## Remington (Mar 22, 2017)

You have another option is to use 11.0-STABLE as many bugs are fixed and it is stable enough to be used as a production server.

Before you do anything, you will need to test the downgrade path to 10.3-RELEASE and see if it'll work which I doubt it as it might break a lot of things which will force you to do a complete reinstall.  I would recommend to try 11.0-STABLE and see if the problems are gone. 11.0-RELEASE only receive security patches.  11.0-STABLE receives security patches and fixes.  I would test 11.0-STABLE in VM first to see if it solves your problem.

I had to do the same thing with 10.0-RELEASE when it had a ZFS bug and I upgraded to 10.0-STABLE and the problem went away.


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## rufwoof (Aug 6, 2017)

For reference ... relative neub to freebsd and started with 11.0 that I upgraded to 11.1 a little while ago. Reading more thoroughly I decided to switch over to follow the Extended (2 year) branch ... i.e. 10.3 and a search for such switching brought this thread to my attention.

I've installed everything via pkg, no src or ports and have 459 programs installed on top of the base system (xorg, jwm, pcmanfm ...etc. desktop, along with nvidia 340 driver for my Nvidia 8600GT card).

Ran `freebsd-update -r 10.3-RELEASE upgrade`
and that all ran through ok, indicating something like 11220 programs/files being noted in 11.1 to be replaced by 9973 in 10.3. Ran `freebsd-update install` and then rebooted as suggested and and ran that for a second time. Rebooted again and ran `pkg-static upgrade -f` to force all packages to be reinstalled ... and that failed at around half way through complaining about not being able to install linux base as not in kernel. I had previously turned linux support off (linux_enable="NO" in /etc/rc.conf) so I turned that back on again (set it to "YES") and rebooted and re-ran the `pkg-static upgrade -f` ... and that ran through fine.

Now when I run freebsd update and pkg upgrade it all completes without any updates being suggested/needed, and uname -a shows I'm running 10.3 p20 (as does freebsd-version).

Took a little over a hour to do in total, perhaps around a hour if I hadn't had to re-run `pkg-static upgrade -f` twice. Bearing in mind that's on a system that's using pre-build binaries (pkg) only (no src's/port's being compiled).

Obviously I had created a backup first, my preference is to use mksquashfs (part of squashfs-tools package). I cd to /mnt created a sda4 folder and mounted my ext3 sda4 partition to that sda4 mount point (mount -t ext2fs /dev/ada0s4 sda4) and then cd to that sda4 folder and ran `mksquashfs / backupbsd.sfs -e /mnt` (i.e. exclude the /mnt folder from being backed up ... otherwise it would also try and backup sda4 and the sfs file itself). Typically to restore such squashed filesystems I normally just run `unsquashfs -f -d / backupbsd.sfs` ... but in this case had no need to do that as I'm now (at least so far) happily running under the Extended 10.3 branch (gui desktop is booting fine, libre and firefox ...etc all working great).


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## rufwoof (Aug 6, 2017)

As the support model has changed since Release 11.0 I decided to undo all of the 10.3 reversion by reinstalling my 11.1 squashed filesystem backup. I have created a USB with the base freebsd installed to that, along with also having installed squashfs-tools (as my backups are sfs files) into that. I booted that USB and in /tmp created sda3 and sda4 folders and ran mount /dev/ada0s3a sda3 to mount my freebsd ufs2 partition, along with mount -t ext2fs /dev/ada0s4 sda4 to mount my ext3 partition where I had the .sfs backup; I then deleted the content of /tmp/sda3, and then cd /tmp/sda4 and ran unsquashfs -f -d /tmp/sda3 backup-bsd.sfs ... and around 5 minutes later the 6.5GB of 11.1 release system had been restored. So it would seem my preferred backup method of using mksquashfs works as expected.

Creating the USB boot version was a bit of a pain in that it was incredibly slow to install freebsd to that (didn't time it, but perhaps something like 2 hours). Quite likely however that was because I was using a cheap usb (around £10 for a 32GB unbranded stick) and partly because of using such a big stick (formatting 32GB etc.). In the past I've managed to create boot USB's much quicker on smaller/better quality/branded sticks.

Personally I prefer using mksquashfs for backups (rather than tar or dump) as I find the syntax easier (more familiar to me). Each to their own.


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## none (Nov 30, 2017)

This thread come to my mind as I have issues with Samba and Windows VM's using virtualbox here. The samba file systems are accessible, but can't read a byte. Just see what files are there. So I will use rufwoof hints here and do a freebsd-update from 11.1 to 10.4.

The issues are just there when I run 11.x. Not the first time. 

thanks for the tip rufwoof


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## didier (Aug 24, 2021)

gkontos said:


> The real question here is why would you want to downgrade a production server?


Because as many of us, he remarks production releases are unstable.
I'm encountering this kind of trouble with KDE5/Plasma on fbsd 13.

Note: Fed up of those who question the validity of our decisions with some "The real question here is why". No ! The legitimate question is "howto". That's all. Please, don't debate decisions of adult persons : there are legitimate.


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## Sevendogsbsd (Aug 24, 2021)

4 year old thread, not likely to get a response…


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## SirDice (Aug 24, 2021)

didier said:


> Please, don't debate decisions of adult persons : there are legitimate.


Learn about the XY Problem and you'll understand that simply answering a question isn't always the correct solution to a problem. In order to understand the problem better we will be asking _why_ you want to do something. Especially if we feel like you're on the wrong track.

Besides that, while technically possible, downgrades are not a supported path. Before upgrading a production system you _test_ the upgrade process on a test system and test the heck out of your important application to make sure the upgrade doesn't break it. Only if you pass those tests do you upgrade a working production server.

Also, please don't necropost.


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## didier (Aug 24, 2021)

SirDice said:


> Learn about the XY Problem and you'll understand that simply answering a question isn't always the correct solution to a problem. In order to understand the problem better we will be asking _why_ you want to do something. Especially if we feel like you're on the wrong track.


Please read again, the wiki page --> "_and misunderstands the real nature of the problem_".
With freebsd, there is no place for novices. In the great majority, all people here are advanced users and most of them are computer scientists.  So, this kind of remark is improper in this context.
They all know what they are doing and their sole need is to collect answers to their question that most of the time is legitimate.
Avoid to ask why they want to do something unless you are sure that the question is not legitimate.



SirDice said:


> Besides that, while technically possible, downgrades are not a supported path.


That is the answer to the question : sorry, it is not supported (for some reason that the user is not very interested in).



SirDice said:


> Before upgrading a production system you _test_ the upgrade process on a test system and test the heck out of your important application to make sure the upgrade doesn't break it. Only if you pass those tests do you upgrade a working production server.


You are reasonning with a usecase in mind. freeBSD's usage as server in production with predefined procedures.
What about an amateur desktop installation ? 
What about a zero-day security hole introduced in the new release ?
Example:  curl vulnerability during these last days on freebsd 13.

So, the wisest thing is to attempt to answer the question before asking for the justification of the need.



SirDice said:


> Also, please don't necropost.


Ok but sometimes ...difficult to resist to the desire to.


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## Tieks (Aug 24, 2021)

didier said:


> Avoid to ask ... unless you are sure that the question is not legitimate.


So we should ask if we think the question is 'not legitimate'? 
Why would a question not be legitimate in the first place? It could keep you from digging up old posts and even older software.


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## chungy (Aug 24, 2021)

didier said:


> With freebsd, there is no place for novices. In the great majority, all people here are advanced users and most of them are computer scientists. So, this kind of remark is improper in this context.


A quick look around the forum will prove you wrong.


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## didier (Aug 25, 2021)

chungy said:


> A quick look around the forum will prove you wrong.


I would like to see that and I will propose to all my friends to migrate to freeBSD. This would be my dream.
Unfortunately,let's agree that freeBSD is elitist beginning by the system management and the package manager, not very user-friendly for common users.

Anyway, the very great majority of forum members are advanced users, familiar with Unix and they ask relevant questions.


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## mer (Aug 25, 2021)

didier said:


> Unfortunately,let's agree that freeBSD is elitist beginning by the system management and the package manager, not very user-friendly for common users.


No, I am not going to agree with this statement.  FreeBSD, by design maintains separation between users with privileges and "common users".


didier said:


> Anyway, the very great majority of forum members are advanced users, familiar with Unix and they ask relevant questions.


I don't know the statistics of the forum members, but advanced users were once newcomers and learned how to ask relevant questions.
A lot of newcomers typically have questions that repeat.  Members can ignore them, point out how to use the search function or answer them.  If they are asking questions that while legitimate are nonsensical in relation to how the system works, they will get answered typically with a "You don't want to do that it's not accepted procedure".  If they need more information as to "why" they can ask additional questions and get them answered.

I'm starting to question the reason why a years old thread was revived in such a confrontational manner.  Smacks of a need to extract a negative reaction.


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## SirDice (Aug 25, 2021)

didier said:


> I would like to see that


The whole premise of this forum is to help new users.


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## didier (Aug 25, 2021)

mer said:


> No, I am not going to agree with this statement.  FreeBSD, by design maintains separation between users with privileges and "common users".


Oh my Dear ... That's not the purpose.
freeBSD is definitively not yet for average users like macos or mswin are, perhaps some linux distros too, but not sure.



mer said:


> I don't know the statistics of the forum members, but advanced users were once newcomers and learned how to ask relevant questions.


"Learning asking relevant questions" never heard something like this during my 48 past years.
Those who install freeBSD on their machines are advanced computer users, particularly with Unix. They are not here by chance : they are not average users.



mer said:


> A lot of newcomers typically have questions that repeat.


Fine. You just did add this to your todo list : "add then to the FAQ".



mer said:


> Members can ignore them, point out how to use the search function or answer them.  If they are asking questions that while legitimate are nonsensical in relation to how the system works, they will get answered typically with a "You don't want to do that it's not accepted procedure".  If they need more information as to "why" they can ask additional questions and get them answered.


Please, don't ask "Why he wants to do something", just respond to his need, "answer if it's possible or not and how to do that if relevant.", stay quiet or notice the question to someone who can help him.


mer said:


> I'm starting to question the reason why a years old thread was revived in such a confrontational manner.  Smacks of a need to extract a negative reaction.


Begin by answering why you participate to this thread several years after and you will have this answer.


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## SirDice (Aug 25, 2021)

The original question was already answered in post #2. Stop trolling didier. 

Thread closed.


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