# For all the people using FreeBSD as their primary desktop.



## Whattteva (Apr 29, 2022)

I love FreeBSD, really I do. I love its rock solid stability (my Linux installations seem to always have weird quirks from time to time), performance, directory consistency, relatively simple setup, and of course The FreeBSD Handbook.

I've dabbled with it off and on for years, but have never really made the complete plunge for my daily driver machine mostly for two reasons, which are either drivers or lack of a certain software that I need (Signal, Slack, Bitwarden, Discord, Chrome (for Netflix, and Spotify), etc.). The Linux compatibility layer helps, but it's often a hit or miss, especially on packages that require systemd and that still doesn't solve the drivers issue.
Also, this one has really stumped me. Why is FreeBSD still stuck with the grossly outdated and insecure mount.smbfs instead of mount.cifs like what Linux has, which supports SMB version 2+?

How do you guys solve this problem? Am I missing some secret sauce or BSD-fu?


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## Israel (Apr 29, 2022)

Maybe because something way more secure already exists?








						SSHFS - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## rigoletto@ (Apr 29, 2022)

NFS


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## Profighost (Apr 29, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> How do you guys solve this problem?


1. I don't use Signal, Twitter, What'sApp, Discord, Skype, Facebook, Netflix, Chrome,... (Believe me: one doesn't need this, one can live without it, and one get rid of a lot of probs you only have because of them. )
2. smbfs I run it on my NAS for Windows machines only to connect to it locally. It's complicated and senseless to use it for anything else.
3. Else I use NFS - it's easy, it's quickly configurated,...


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## Whattteva (Apr 29, 2022)

Profighost said:


> 1. I don't use Signal, Twitter, What'sApp, Discord, Skype, Facebook, Netflix, Chrome,... (Believe me: one doesn't need this, one can live without it, and one get rid of a lot of probs you only have because of them. )
> 2. smbfs I run it on my NAS for Windows machines only to connect to it locally. It's complicated and senseless to use it for anything else.
> 3. Else I use NFS - it's easy, it's quickly configurated,...


1. Well, to each their own I suppose. Maybe YOU don't care to use them, but everyone has different needs.
2. I do use NFS, but sometimes I don't have control over the actual server that's making the share and CIFS tends to be the more universally supported protocol, especially in a mixed client network with Apple/Windows/Linux machines, but this one is a more minor issue.

Really, as I stated above, the biggest issue is more the lack of some Linux apps and drivers.


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## eternal_noob (Apr 29, 2022)

I use a Raspberry Pi 400 and i even don't have sound. Your issues are of the minor kind.


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## Geezer (Apr 29, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> For all the people using FreeBSD as their primary desktop.​





Whattteva said:


> How do you guys solve this problem? Am I missing some secret sauce or BSD-fu?



I use Freebsd as my desktop. You certainly are missing something. Dunno what though.


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## eternal_noob (Apr 29, 2022)

Geezer said:


> You certainly are missing something. Dunno what though.


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## getopt (Apr 29, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> Am I missing some secret sauce or BSD-fu?


You got it!  Here we like mushrooms. And after having an effect watch this kind of videos.


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## drhowarddrfine (Apr 29, 2022)

I don't understand the issue. If one needs something that runs only on Linux or Windows, run it in bhyve or virtualbox, tuck it in a corner and be done with it. We did this all the time at my company when we had some outlier company that used something we didn't.


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## Menelkir (Apr 29, 2022)

sysutils/fusefs-smbnetfs?


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## SirDice (Apr 29, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> Why is FreeBSD still stuck with the grossly outdated and insecure mount.smbfs instead of mount.cifs like what Linux has, which supports SMB version 2+?


Because Samba actually made that mount.cifs. It's not part of Linux, it's part of Samba. Samba doesn't have a FreeBSD compatible mount.cifs.


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## sko (Apr 29, 2022)

I haven't had Windows on any of my systems for the last ~15 years (some early Win 7 install for some gaming was the last I can remember...). Haven't looked back even a split second...




Whattteva said:


> (Signal, Slack, Bitwarden, Discord, [...] etc.).


All of those services can be accessed from a browser - their "apps" are usually nothing else but a crippled (yet still bloated) browser in disguise that only shows a similarly crippled (or "optimized" in marketing-speech) variant of their frontend...
If one of those try to force you to exclusively use some proprietary app and close down their APIs - just abandon them; they will die anyways.. (remember ICQ?)



Whattteva said:


> Why is FreeBSD still stuck with the grossly outdated and insecure mount.smbfs instead of mount.cifs like what Linux has, which supports SMB version 2+?


Because SMB is shit. Use a proper, secure protocol and simply abandon that sorry excuse for a proper network filesystem protocol...  NFSv4 or sshfs are more than sufficient to cover all use-cases on a desktop.



Whattteva said:


> How do you guys solve this problem? Am I missing some secret sauce or BSD-fu?


Simply abandon the flawed mindset from windows-land of downloading and using "apps" from shady sources for everything that is just a website or networked service. If use proper, standardised protocols, there are alternative clients available - if not, just don't use them.
If you *absolutely* need some specific piece of software that is only available for windows, use wine. But usually for 99% of use cases there is an (often better) alternative available or even a much simpler solution/workflow possible with any of the 'proper' operating systems, because _a lot_ of "solutions" only stem from some arbitrary restrictions on Windows that need to be circumvented.


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## sidetone (Apr 29, 2022)

NFS has been mentioned. To be clear, NFS is for use between non-Windows computers. At least, it's not natively supported by Windows. 

SMB actually allows shared printer access. I read that NFS allows this too, but could only find 1 mention of it in all of my searching with no description nor instruction. It seems that NFS for printer sharing would be minimal or very basic if it's a real function of it.

For those who don't know, Samba is the Opensource way to access SMB. SMB is known for use on Windows, but the technology doesn't belong to any one company. CIFS is a filesystem related to SMB. I forgot their exact relationship, but they're nearly synonymous.

Samba has well documented instructions: https://www.samba.org/. FreeBSD has a few Samba ports.


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## scottro (Apr 29, 2022)

There is a tutorial on these forums about using Linux compat layer to install chrome or brave-browser. That can be used for Netflix and some other video formats require widevine. As time goes on, some of the other things you need may get solutions. https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/linuxulator-how-to-install-brave-linux-app-on-freebsd-13-0.78879/


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## jardows (Apr 29, 2022)

I will add here only to the SMB connection.  I work at a large private university that uses only SMB for file sharing, so I cannot use NFS or other means within FreeBSD.  The Fuse client is currently working for read access, as I am participating in another thread related to that.  Part of what I do makes the Samba access unusable, so a direct mount of the SMB shares is needed.  This one thing alone keeps me from using FreeBSD at work.

At home, since I have control over my network, I have setup NFS for file sharing, and would not otherwise worry about it.


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## rigoletto@ (Apr 29, 2022)

sidetone said:


> NFS has been mentioned. To be clear, NFS is for use between non-Windows computers. At least, it's not natively supported by Windows.
> 
> SMB actually allows shared printer access. I read that NFS allows this too, but could only find 1 mention of it in all of my searching with no description nor instruction. It seems that NFS for printer sharing would be minimal or very basic if it's a real function of it.
> 
> ...



Since Windows-_something_ the pro/ultimate version have built-in NFS support. IDK anything about shared printers but if I was in the market for a printer to be used shared, I would get a networked one.


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## sko (Apr 29, 2022)

sidetone said:


> SMB actually allows shared printer access. I read that NFS allows this too, but could only find 1 mention of it in all of my searching with no description nor instruction. It seems that NFS for printer sharing would be minimal or very basic if it's a real function of it.


wrong tool for the job

Networked printers nowadays all support IPP - you can basically just throw plaintext or any format the printer understands (e.g. post script or even pdf) via netcat at those printers.

Or use cups to provide printer access via printing protocols to the clients (even windows). NFS even has "file" in its name - printers are not files, don't treat them that way. Just because microsoft still handles network printing (or printing in general) like it's something arcane and highly complicated doesn't mean you have to rebuild all those braindamaged misconcepts they came up with...


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## sidetone (Apr 29, 2022)

I've already covered SMB and Samba for shared printing and network use between Opensource computers and Windows. If a single computer is going to take printjobs from other computers to send to a printer, and any of them is FreeBSD or Linux, Samba will be needed.



sko said:


> NFS even has "file" in its name


 CIFS has file system in its name.

I've already explained how I only saw 1 mention of NFS being used for printer sharing, and if that's so, it's use would be primitive or very minimal. The mention was in FreeBSD 6 Unleashed. Samba has detailed instructions on printer sharing.

NFS has a purpose of file sharing between non-Windows computers. For the subject of this thread, NFS lacks file sharing with typical Windows computers, and SMB is made for printer sharing.

Unless there's more on newer compatibility between newer select Windows computers with NFS, or there's more on NFS being used for printing, even if it's the wrong tool, then I hope this thread moves on from NFS.


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## sko (Apr 29, 2022)

sidetone said:


> If a single computer is going to take printjobs from other computers to send to a printer, and any of them is FreeBSD or Linux, Samba will be needed.



I don't run any samba server at home - cups is all you need for any networked printing. (if your printer isn't capable of connecting to a network...)
At home my trusty old brother HL2030 laser printer is attached to an OrangePi zero (or rather, the OPi is attached to the back of the printer...) running OpenBSD and cups. My FreeBSD desktop and laptop; my girlfriends android tablet, iPhone and Windows laptop as well as the nextcloud instance on my fileserver all print via this cups server.


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## Whattteva (Apr 29, 2022)

sko said:


> I haven't had Windows on any of my systems for the last ~15 years (some early Win 7 install for some gaming was the last I can remember...). Haven't looked back even a split second...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why you have to be so aggressive. And what's with the obsession with repeatedly mentioning Windows when my original post never even mentioned it. In fact, I mentioned Linux at least 3 times (hence, the compatibility layer and systemd dependency problem). I really think you're barking up the wrong tree here. The whole post was really talking more about fully migrating from Linux to FreeBSD.


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## astyle (Apr 29, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> lack of a certain software that I need (Signal, Slack, Bitwarden, Discord, Chrome (for Netflix, and Spotify), etc.).



Discord works fine in www/firefox.  
With www/chromium, YMMV, but on these forums, there are reports of success with using it for Netflix and Spotify.
Bitwarden is a password manager. There's quite a few alternatives in ports, if you bother to look and do a bit of research. Just google the term: "Password manager for FreeBSD". IIRC, www/firefox offers that feature, too. So does www/chromium. It's simply a matter of knowing how to do your research and find options.
Signal is an IM platform that I didn't even know about until just now, when the Opening Post prompted me to do a quick search on Google. Once again, it should work in any browser.
Slack - same story as Signal.
Even on Windows, a LOT of stuff is done in a browser, as opposed to using desktop software.  The web browser is the secret sauce for nearly everything related to communications.

If you want to get your files organized and backed up and be secure - yeah, there are ways to do it, but discussions on THAT are beyond the scope of this thread.  In my experience, FreeBSD can communicate just fine with Windows via Samba or whatever. NFS is not meant for a Windows participant (unless the same disk is exported via Samba and NFS).


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## sidetone (Apr 29, 2022)

For compatibility reasons, even if not mentioned, I thought that being compatible with Windows could be an expectation. For compatibility, including with Windows, SMB.

There's this mention of Windows or being universally accepted as well. 





Whattteva said:


> 2. I do use NFS, but sometimes I don't have control over the actual server that's making the share and CIFS tends to be the more universally supported protocol, especially in a mixed client network with Apple/Windows/Linux machines, but this one is a more minor issue.



Print sharing: some combination of Samba and/or Cups. There are instructions for setting up Cups on Samba. SMB was by multiple companies and isn't limited to Windows Intellectual Property, except for their implementation that uses it. Another company started SMB, it was IBM. Samba would have interest in having a version with wanted features. Or a version with wanted features can be ported here, along with patches to make it work on FreeBSD.

Different implementations of Mac/Apple use different versions of NFS and SMB. They wanted to move on to their own filesystem.

Some mentioned SSHFS, which I don't know anything about.

Edit: at one time, there were RFC's for SMB/CIFS at ietf.org. In this case, there was a draft as an open standard for it at some time. CIFS = Common Internet File System. SMB = Server Message Block.


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## Whattteva (Apr 29, 2022)

astyle said:


> Discord works fine in www/firefox.
> With www/chromium, YMMV, but on these forums, there are reports of success with using it for Netflix and Spotify.
> Bitwarden is a password manager. There's quite a few alternatives in ports, if you bother to look and do a bit of research. Just google the term: "Password manager for FreeBSD". IIRC, www/firefox offers that feature, too. So does www/chromium. It's simply a matter of knowing how to do your research and find options.
> Signal is an IM platform that I didn't even know about until just now, when the Opening Post prompted me to do a quick search on Google. Once again, it should work in any browser.
> ...


Thank you! Your posts are the few that's not passive aggressive and just honestly addressing the OP.

I know that you could use the web browser for some of them (not Netflix/Spotify), but I was wondering if someone has it figured out. I prefer running it natively because I tend to have to reboot Firefox/Chromium every once in a while due to their memory usage becoming untenable after a while.

As for Bitwarden, I don't really like to tie the browser with the storage cause I also use it on my phone. Also, I share it with my wife, so switching it up isn't really feasible cause she's already used to it.

I guess I just have to resort with running them on the browser secret sauce.


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## Whattteva (Apr 29, 2022)

sidetone said:


> Print sharing: some combination of Samba and/or Cups. There are instructions for setting up Cups on Samba. SMB was by multiple companies and isn't limited to Windows Intellectual Property, except for their implementation that uses it. Another company started SMB, IIRC, it was IBM.


Didn't know that. Nifty little tidbit.



sidetone said:


> Different implementations of Mac/Apple use different versions of NFS and SMB. They wanted to move on to their own filesystem.
> 
> Some mentioned, SSHFS, which I don't know anything about.


This is true. Apple really would like you to use AFS more than anything else.


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## sidetone (Apr 29, 2022)

There are a few ports for using, including mounting, SMB/CIFS. If the one needed for mounting a specific version or that uses a specific feature isn't there, the one needed can be patched and ported.


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## meine (Apr 29, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> How do you guys solve this problem? Am I missing some secret sauce or BSD-fu?



I solved those problems by not using any of those platforms or services, just using basic protocols for web (browser), email (mutt) and sometimes IRC. Socializing can be done through the websites of mastodon or twitter. I don't watch many TV and when I miss something, I missed it. Don't bother.

Over the years I migrated all my files to defaultly known file systems on a basic FreeBSD box, so it mounts my photo camera. The rest is irrelevant to me.

I do not bother to do remote work on my own computer, just use the provided W10 boss box for that.

The 'secret BSD-fu sauce' is to use BSD and skip the rest. So STOP the 'app thinking' as if there is an app for any use on any platform. START using software as intended -- as broad and narrow as designed.

The world around seems cramped in 'app thinking', stimulating FOMO. But that is different from how software and *BSD is used, how personal computing is intended.


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## sidetone (Apr 29, 2022)

FreeBSD didn't always have all the features. For a desktop, for a long time, it was usable. Recently, it had nearly all the desktop features.

Common and complete features are good. Hopefully, it not being done the Linux way.

This should have been focused on SMB or alternatives, from the begining, not Linux. Who cares. If there's a program that works there, and it's not reliant on Linuxism dependencies, port it here.


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## Jose (Apr 29, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> This is true. Apple really would like you to use AFS more than anything else.


Yeah, but they've embraced SMB/CIFS for remote mounts. It seems to me that most of the people working on Netatalk are now working on Samba. They haven' zapped Netatalk support for Timemachine yet. I'm hoping me and my family will be through using Apple devices by the time they inevitably do.

I looked at setting up Samba on my network, and it's a hard pass for me. Samba, following the Microsoft way, has to take control of a DNS domain in order to work properly. Their built-in DNS server is ass, and they have serious issues working properly with BIND. Yeah. No thanks.


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## kpedersen (Apr 29, 2022)

When I have to use SMB, I just turn the tables. I run a Samba server on the UNIX host and get the Windows machine to act as the clients. FreeBSD has a perfectly good Samba server. Linux shares the same version.

It is kind of the opposite problem for Microsoft Windows. The NFS client is "ok" but I have yet to find a decent NFS server.

As for actual desktop / workstation usage; then SSH, Git suffice 99.9% of the time.



Whattteva said:


> (Signal, *Slack*, Bitwarden, *Discord*, *Chrome *(for Netflix, and Spotify), etc.)


Slack and Discord are web pages. Just use them from any old crusty browser.
Chromium works fine as a substitute. You don't have the DRM plugins but the pirate bay can generally solve that (think of it simply as a peer hosted Netflix mirror).

As for drivers; I tend to just buy a suitable machine. It may seem disappointing as a piece of advice but FreeBSD supports many, many more hardware than macOS and yet people don't seem to encounter driver issues there because _they are running it on a suitable machine_.


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## black_metal (Apr 29, 2022)

The only two pieces of software I use from that list are Signal and in the past Discord. I always just used Discord on my browser (Firefox) because the Desktop Client is literally just a glorified (not really) Chrome anyway, and Signal on my Phone since I mean.. never had a reason to need it on desktop otherwise.


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## astyle (Apr 29, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> As for Bitwarden, I don't really like to tie the browser with the storage cause I also use it on my phone. Also, I share it with my wife, so switching it up isn't really feasible cause she's already used to it.


BTW, I just have a password manager app on my phone, and that's it. I don't sync with desktop, I tell the browser to NEVER REMEMBER the passwords I enter. And I don't share my passwords with anyone, even if I have a great relationship otherwise. You never know when someone gets careless - and your accounts become a mess as a result. Even if you can manage to keep your relationship in spite of that, the leaked information has the potential to bite in surprising ways.

Netflix/Spotify/Youtube support is spotty on FreeBSD, at least in part because the pkg version of multimedia/ffmpeg is compiled with conservative options that don't include everything plus the kitchen sink. Fortunately, they are not something I use.  Well, maybe Youtube.

I do like compiling stuff with my own options - that's what ports are for.


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## Alain De Vos (Apr 29, 2022)

eternal_noob said:


> I use a Raspberry Pi 400 and i even don't have sound. Your issues are of the minor kind.


I use a cheap USB audio dongle on it.


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## eternal_noob (Apr 29, 2022)

That would be cheating! 

Enjoy the silence:




_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGSKrC7dGcY_


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## grahamperrin@ (Apr 30, 2022)

> *For all the people using FreeBSD as their primary desktop.*



Cross-reference:

For all the people using FreeBSD as their primary desktop.​
From the opening poster:



Whattteva said:


> … the biggest issue is more the lack of some Linux apps and drivers.



Whattteva any driver in particular?

For the DRM stack (graphics), from <https://gitter.im/FreeBSDDesktop/Lobby/archives/2022/02/18?at=620fda5f4164105ab0a48254>:



> [irc] <manu> brief plan is 5.10, move most things to base (i.e. no linuxkpi_gplv2.ko)
> [irc] <manu> then have a dma-buf implem in base and if it's good enough perf-wise import everything



The NVIDIA situation is remarkable. Whilst FreeBSD-specific drivers can be downloaded from NVIDIA's site, it's preferable to install _ports of_ the drivers (not the originals).

iwlwifi(4) is work in progress. The manual page for 13.1 <https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=iwlwifi&sektion=4&manpath=FreeBSD+13.1-RELEASE> is not yet available. Instead: <https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=iwlwifi&sektion=4&manpath=FreeBSD+14.0-current> and <https://wiki.freebsd.org/WiFi/Iwlwifi>.



Whattteva said:


> … Why is FreeBSD still stuck with the grossly outdated and insecure mount.smbfs …



Echoing <https://old.reddit.com/comments/ueas25/-/i6p5bqb/>; under <https://wiki.freebsd.org/2021FoundationCFI#Networking>:



> > smbfs in base: support SMBv2 and SMBv3 …


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## neal (Apr 30, 2022)

Bitwarden works nicely as a Firefox extension, so no application is needed really. I looked into creating a port for it some time ago, but the dependencies were insane, so I shelved that idea.


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## drhowarddrfine (Apr 30, 2022)

grahamperrin said:


> Cross-reference:


Never, EVER use reddit as a cross reference for ANYTHING! It's only for the criminally insane and will immediately cut your IQ in half.


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## grahamperrin@ (Apr 30, 2022)

Israel said:


> Maybe because something way more secure already exists?
> 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSHFS>



No mention of _lock_ in the change log, which began in 2004.

I wrote (in Wikipedia) about lock-related problems in 2009. (It was alarmingly easy for one person to overwrite another person's edition, with neither person being aware of the data loss until it was too late.)

2019, under _Mounting SMB (v2/v3) shares / gvfs? : freebsd_:  



> … are file lock situations, which may vary from one application to another, handled gracefully?
> 
> E.g. if you open an Excel workbook with write privileges, then will other users (properly) be limited to read-only for that file?



jardows did you ever have an opportunity test SSHFS in a multiple user situation, or (below) is testing an impossibility for you? 



jardows said:


> … I work at a large private university that uses only SMB for file sharing, …





Whattteva said:


> … sometimes I don't have control over the actual server that's making the share …





Whattteva said:


> … Apple really would like you to use AFS more than anything else.



Nit: APFS – with a _P_.

AFS is the Andrew File System. Rest in peace net/openafs.


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## mer (Apr 30, 2022)

drhowarddrfine said:


> Never, EVER use reddit as a cross reference for ANYTHING! It's only for the criminally insane and will immediately cut your IQ in half.


I personally find some of the stories on MaliciousCompliance and AITA entertaining.


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## Whattteva (Apr 30, 2022)

grahamperrin said:


> Nit: APFS – with a _P_.
> 
> AFS is the Andrew File System. Rest in peace net/openafs.


Actually, I think we are both wrong here.
APFS is their new journaling file system, which was not what I was referring to. I was referring to their network file sharing protocol, which is actually AFP (apparently deprecated in favor of SMB in Big Sur), NOT AFS as I mentioned in earlier post. Too many similar acronyms.


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## cracauer@ (Apr 30, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> I know that you could use the web browser for some of them (not Netflix/Spotify), but I was wondering if someone has it figured out. I prefer running it natively because I tend to have to reboot Firefox/Chromium every once in a while due to their memory usage becoming untenable after a while.



I use different user profiles for my browsers. One for work, one for fluff, a separate one for discord etc. That way I restart the fluff profile's browser instance often, and the others usually only when there is an update.

All those native apps on a regular Unix machine (as opposed to a mobile device) are very problematic security-wise. Discord has a hole and you use it natively - whole user account compromised.


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## mer (Apr 30, 2022)

cracauer@ said:


> I use different user profiles for my browsers. One for work, one for fluff, a separate one for discord etc.


Nice to see I'm not the only one that does this.


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## grahamperrin@ (Apr 30, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> Actually, I think we are both wrong here.



Yeah, I overlooked the context. Sorry! _AFP_ … pleasant flashbacks to AppleShare IP, AppleTalk, LocalTalk and a 35 kg printer.


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## Whattteva (May 1, 2022)

grahamperrin said:


> Whattteva any driver in particular?


My WiFi and Bluetooth cards.


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## grahamperrin@ (May 1, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> My WiFi and Bluetooth cards.



Thanks, can you describe them? 

Make and model. 

Ideally, IDs that can be sought at <https://bsd-hardware.info/?view=search&d=FreeBSD>


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## Whattteva (May 2, 2022)

grahamperrin said:


> Thanks, can you describe them?
> 
> Make and model.
> 
> Ideally, IDs that can be sought at <https://bsd-hardware.info/?view=search&d=FreeBSD>


Can't see all the ID's but here are some. I tried searching on that link, but didn't seem to come up with anything.

Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX200 160 MHz
Vendor ID: 8086
Device ID: 2723

Intel Wireless Bluetooth
Vendor ID: 8087
Class ID: E0


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## grahamperrin@ (May 2, 2022)

Wi-Fi​


Whattteva said:


> Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX200 160 MHz
> Vendor ID: 8086
> Device ID: 2723



FreeBSD bug 244261 – Add support for Intel AX200 (iwx) wireless devices – you can add yourself to the CC list.









						Solved - Intel AX200 support
					

Hi. I'm a newbie FreeBSD user. I have a motherboard with Intel AX200. I installed 14-Current and did the things on this page:  https://wiki.freebsd.org/WiFi/Iwlwifi  No help. Is it possible to connect to Wi-Fi now or do I have to use ethernet?




					forums.freebsd.org
				




– solved by ayyash07, however the solution there (wired instead of Wi-Fi) might be not what you want.

Can I get my AX200 working on -CURRENT ? : freebsd – there's an answer that does _not_ require wired networking.

More discussion of AX200 under <https://old.reddit.com/r/freebsd/comments/udgrav/-/>.

Please watch this topic:









						Intel Wi-Fi cards support AX200 & AX210
					

iS possible to add support for the intel ax200 wifi card ...my wifi card is not working and I cant do anything. i have same chipset both on my desktop and laptop. AX210 is a newer chipset with Wifi6E support.




					forums.freebsd.org
				




Also, FYI









						Cheap Wireless USB Adapter: RTL8188EU, RTL8821AU or something else?
					

As the Intel AX200 in my new laptop isn't supported yet, I have to grab a cheap wireless USB adapter to bridge the gap.  The following two came to mind, because they are supported by the rtwn_usb driver and are of the "nano" type (so that it doesn't have to be removed whenever the laptop is...




					forums.freebsd.org


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## Zare (May 2, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> I love FreeBSD, really I do. I love its rock solid stability (my Linux installations seem to always have weird quirks from time to time), performance, directory consistency, relatively simple setup, and of course The FreeBSD Handbook.
> 
> I've dabbled with it off and on for years, but have never really made the complete plunge for my daily driver machine mostly for two reasons, which are either drivers or lack of a certain software that I need (Signal, Slack, Bitwarden, Discord, Chrome (for Netflix, and Spotify), etc.). The Linux compatibility layer helps, but it's often a hit or miss, especially on packages that require systemd and that still doesn't solve the drivers issue.
> Also, this one has really stumped me. Why is FreeBSD still stuck with the grossly outdated and insecure mount.smbfs instead of mount.cifs like what Linux has, which supports SMB version 2+?
> ...



Desktop is an user specific environment where he performs his daily work. What is considered to be a common denominator of all desktops is that they allow users to configure the environment, access the network, the web, access files on the computer.

The specific end user application is not a common desktop denominator.

The access to proprietary services (Netflix, Spotify) is something that FreeBSD is not made for.

FreeBSD requires users to embrace mindset that you should not use 3rd party code to achieve something that's in the base (Bitwarden)

FreeBSD is a great choice for running mature open source tech atop of it. See it like that or you'll have troubles.

If you want to make a move and you see those services/applications as essential why even bothering? E.g. check if it's supported beforehand, if not, don't buy it. I refer to FreeBSD HCL or just google when I want to buy a piece of hardware, I don't just buy it blind and then get dissapointed because FreeBSD does not support it.


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## Whattteva (May 5, 2022)

I guess the current consensus seems to be just use Linux for desktop unless you can you can forego non-BSD apps.
I found this post from back in 2017 that basically echoes my own sentiment. https://forums.FreeBSD.org/threads/do-freebsd-developers-eat-their-own-dogfood.62222/post-359614
I'd imagine this is still fairly relevant in 2022, particularly this part by fnoyanisi:



tankist02 said:


> It matters because it would encourage developers to improve FreeBSD for desktop.





> So, I totally agree with this! +1
> The fanatic "FreeBSD is designed for servers, bugger off desktops" slogan we all hear does not make sense at all. The more users you have, the more contributions you will get, the more third party software will be ported to FreeBSD...This is a  while(1) loop that will repeat itself, simple as that.


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## kpedersen (May 6, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> I guess the current consensus seems to be just use Linux for desktop unless you can you can forego *non-BSD apps*.


proprietary, non-portable apps is possibly more appropriate a statement.

Yes, there are a lot of these, some of them are useful but in many cases many of us find alternative solutions. For me a decent OS in general is more important than any single application.


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## bsduck (May 6, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> I guess the current consensus seems to be just use Linux for desktop unless you can you can forego non-BSD apps.


I don't know where you see such a consensus.

Applications that do not natively run on FreeBSD can be used through:
* the Linux compatibility layer a.k.a. Linuxulator
* WINE
* virtual machines running the required OS

Usecases where you need to run a program that doesn't work with any of those options are quite specific, and in those cases you'll typically need Windows, not Linux.


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## Jose (May 6, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> (Snip a bunch of sniveling about why can't Freebsd be more like Linux)


Whatever.


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## Deleted member 70435 (May 6, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> I love FreeBSD, really I do. I love its rock solid stability (my Linux installations seem to always have weird quirks from time to time), performance, directory consistency, relatively simple setup, and of course The FreeBSD Handbook.
> 
> I've dabbled with it off and on for years, but have never really made the complete plunge for my daily driver machine mostly for two reasons, which are either drivers or lack of a certain software that I need (Signal, Slack, Bitwarden, Discord, Chrome (for Netflix, and Spotify), etc.). The Linux compatibility layer helps, but it's often a hit or miss, especially on packages that require systemd and that still


good has how you do a trick on kiss linux, give to enjoy, some libraries, it is something extremely annoying, more if you are very patient.


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## Whattteva (May 6, 2022)

bsduck said:


> I don't know where you see such a consensus.
> 
> Applications that do not natively run on FreeBSD can be used through:
> * the Linux compatibility layer a.k.a. Linuxulator
> ...


This isn't true cause Slack (which I need for work) requires snapd to install and obviously runs on Linux, but not the compatibility layer.

I didn't consider WINE option, but that's certainly a good route. I guess I tried the compat layer first cause I wanted a more native solution.


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## Whattteva (May 6, 2022)

Jose said:


> Whatever.


Not sure why sometimes one feels the need to be a jackass when they have nothing of value to add, but you do you if that's what strikes your fancy, this is the internet after all.


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## mer (May 6, 2022)

Non server daily driver use has been and always will be a personal choice.  I agree with everyone saying "what consensus are you talking about?"  Simply because there is no "graphical user interface installed by default?"  
Applications.  Everyone has applications they use on a daily basis, applications they use once in a while.  
You need to evaluate a complete ecosystem rather than one piece of it.
If you have a must have application that doesn't run on FreeBSD because there is no port, no compatible application, no way of running it in a VM, then FreeBSD is not an option, but that is not the "fault" of FreeBSD.

So you always have to start with your applications and then work backwards to the platform.
But heck, that's all just my opinion, feel free to ignore it, this is the internet after all.


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## Whattteva (May 6, 2022)

mer said:


> Non server daily driver use has been and always will be a personal choice.  I agree with everyone saying "what consensus are you talking about?"  Simply because there is no "graphical user interface installed by default?"
> Applications.  Everyone has applications they use on a daily basis, applications they use once in a while.
> You need to evaluate a complete ecosystem rather than one piece of it.
> If you have a must have application that doesn't run on FreeBSD because there is no port, no compatible application, no way of running it in a VM, then FreeBSD is not an option, but that is not the "fault" of FreeBSD.
> ...


I'm totally fine if the solution doesn't yet exist or if it just means I should run Linux in a VM etc. The main reason I came here as stated in my original post was to see if someone out there maybe has figured out some creative workaround that I haven't thought of.

I do find it problematic that some posts tend to be a bit passive aggressive. It's a stark contrast from say Deb Goodkin's tone (Executive Director of FreeBSD Foundation) who's a lot more friendly and open to solicit more people to contribute to it and hopefully make it popular enough that FreeBSD can eventually deprecate the Linux compatibility layer. She even has a presentation slide (from The Linux Foundation Open Source Summit) acknowledging the desktop's lack of support in some areas (WiFi, graphics, OBS, webconferencing apps, etc.). I can't help but notice that some of the responses here run counter to her evangelizing goal.


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## mer (May 6, 2022)

My experience has been because "this is the internet", a lot of clues normally present in face to face interactions are not available, so tone of a response is based on the perceived tone of the request.  I'm not saying it right or wrong or good or bad, just my opinion on what seems to happen.
Keep in mind that probably 99% of the people posting here have nothing do to with anything official;  they are simply users.


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## bsduck (May 6, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> Slack (which I need for work) requires snapd to install


Doesn't seem so:








						Linux | Downloads
					

Download Slack for free for mobile devices and desktop. Keep up with the conversation with our apps for iOS, Android, Mac, Windows and Linux.




					slack.com
				













I've never seen a .rpm or a .deb requiring snapd to install. If that's really the case, better avoid this software altogether 

And if you want a native client for FreeBSD to be made available, please let them know:


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## drhowarddrfine (May 6, 2022)

Whattteva  In 2004, we tried to get Linux to work for my company but failed to understand it and get things to work. We tried FreeBSD and things booted up the first time. We had 10 developers all using FreeBSD as their desktop for 16 years. We did web development, embedded systems and robotics, audio and video editing. 

We never concerned ourselves with what Linux or Windows used or what they were doing. When we needed a tool or software, and didn't have time to create our own, we used what was available for FreeBSD. A couple of times I recall putting Linux or Windows in a VM to run something so we could copy and transfer it to our system. 

Not being able to do something on the desktop was never a concern of ours and never hampered our progress.


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## getopt (May 6, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> I do find it problematic that some posts tend to be a bit passive aggressive.


That may be because the community aims to assist those who want to install, run, or upgrade _*FreeBSD as-is*_. Discussions about what FreeBSD _needs to be_, or _needs to add_, or _needs to lose_, are pointless on the forums. Those discussions are best held on the FreeBSD mailing lists, where active development and maintenance of the operating system are discussed and performed in excruciating detail.


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## kpedersen (May 6, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> It's a stark contrast from say Deb Goodkin's tone (Executive Director of FreeBSD Foundation) who's a lot more friendly


Possibly because that is her job. Have you had any responses from the mailing lists?


Whattteva said:


> hopefully make it popular enough that FreeBSD can eventually deprecate the Linux compatibility layer.


It will never happen. Since the 70's, people have choosen to write proprietary or non-portable applications for OS platforms you don't happen to run. Its like saying that one day Linux can deprecate Wine. Never going to happen, especially with the Steam DRM Platform that is pioneering it. And that is fine, there is loads of great software out there... stop choosing ones that don't work on your preferred OS!


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## Jose (May 6, 2022)

Whattteva said:


> Not sure why sometimes one feels the need to be a jackass when they have nothing of value to add...


And what value have you added exactly? File any bugs? Help anyone on these forums? All you've done is complain about how Freebsd is not Linux. This is explicitly against forum rules.


Whattteva said:


> but you do you if that's what strikes your fancy, this is the internet after all.


I don't need or want your permission to be jackass or do anything else I might fancy.


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## shkhln (May 6, 2022)

Was a concrete problem presented there? What's with the fake surprise then? Derailing is the natural outcome of any such discussion.

As for the desire to use fancy proprietary apps without reliance on perpetually imperfect emulation layers — tough luck, life isn't fair.


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## grahamperrin@ (May 7, 2022)

Zare said:


> FreeBSD HCL



It's useful, but far from definitive. 









						Hardware compatibility list
					

Seems to me that the hardware listed in the compatibility list for FreeBSD 13 is at least 4-5 years old.  Is there no recent hardware on this list? or am I missing something?




					forums.freebsd.org


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## malavon (May 7, 2022)

Another way to find supported hardware is to either probe using sysutils/hwprobe or visit http://bsd-hardware.info/ The list has gotten quite extensive and it also gives some indication about which version started to support certain hardware.


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## Zare (May 8, 2022)

grahamperrin said:


> It's useful, but far from definitive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes that's why I mentioned google too (that'll probably get you results from this forum or mailing lists)


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## kceiw (May 13, 2022)

drhowarddrfine said:


> I don't understand the issue. If one needs something that runs only on Linux or Windows, run it in bhyve or virtualbox, tuck it in a corner and be done with it. We did this all the time at my company when we had some outlier company that used something we didn't.


The only issue I have with bhyve is the resolution when I runs GUI. It doesn't support 4k resolution and I have a 4k monitor. Everything appears small in the center of the monitor.


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