# How old should a laptop be?



## bsmith (Sep 2, 2017)

I had a Lenovo Thinkpad Series 3  which  was on the approved list.  Unfortunately  the network card went bad.  I know that you can't use brand new computers but  how old should it be?  The computer I  had I   suspect had windows 7 on it.  I'm planning to buy a new one because my other laptop is only six months old.  I don't want   to buy something too old because it probably wont last long but I'm afraid too get somethiing too new.  I checked the compatible list and there wasn't a lot of choices.  I know Dell has a lot of computers that support linux but when I called HP they no longer support linux except on their desktops.  I know Linux is Not FreeBSD but I felt I had a batter  chance of fiinding one that is compatible.  I really want to find a good computer because FreeBSD is my favorite Operating system.   I'd really like some advice.  Thanks


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## k.jacker (Sep 2, 2017)

There is nothing wrong with new laptops. 
What is (in my opinion) important is hardware acceleration in Xorg, so if you want good battery life and video without stutter, you'd go with Intel only graphics.
The i915kms driver supports Intel graphics up to Haswell generation (Core i3/5/7 4xxx). Everything Broadwell, Skylake and newer is not supportet.

Than there is wireless. On modern laptops there is most likely some kind of 802.11ac type which won't work. That shouldn't stop you, they can be swapped out on most laptops and replaced by an older 802.11n device from ebay. Check compatibility here https://www.freebsd.org/releases/11.1R/hardware.html#wlan
There is allways a chance for that audio or other things won't work and manufacturers usually don't document those parts much, which is sad.

Good choices are Dell Latitude and Lenovo or business laptops in general as they use quality parts which are more often supported by FreeBSD.

On how to swap out wireless or if it's possible, youtube is your friend, like _your_laptop_model _teardown or repair and such.
Most of the above business laptops have hatches that make swaping wireless or upgrading RAM easy.


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## Birdy (Sep 3, 2017)

For a ThinkPad see this recommendation.


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## bsmith (Sep 3, 2017)

My new laptop is a Dell Inspiron 3000 Series. Should this be compatible? 

Thanks


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## k.jacker (Sep 3, 2017)

You have to do most of the reseaching work yourself, nobody can do this for you.


bsmith said:


> My new laptop is a Dell Inspiron 3000 Series.


That won't get you far, you need at least the full model name (sticker on the base) to start researching.

I googled the series and found it's equiped with a Broadwell series processor, so you won't get hardware acceleration from the i915kms driver (assuming there is no other graphics beside the processor's graphics.)

But you are lucky, because you have that laptop allready and Windows installed on it, right?
Check Windows' device manager or create a bootable FreeBSD pendrive, boot it and check dmesg.

When ever you want to get a laptop,  gather as much information as possible and compare to https://www.freebsd.org/releases/11.1R/hardware.html

Used/refurbishes business laptops from Lenovo, Dell and maybe HP from ebay are a good deal. I got a Dell Latitude E7240, Haswell Core i7-4600U (supported by above driver). Haven't tried the camera and swapped out the original 802.11ac wireless for an older 11n device.


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## ekingston (Sep 3, 2017)

Haswell was last put in new laptops 4 years ago. If you want Intel graphics with acceleration using the i915kms driver with the latest FreeBSD release (11.1) you need a 4 year old laptop.

Does anyone know the state of hardware acceleration on the AMD side?


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## bsmith (Sep 4, 2017)

Thanks for the advice.  I have a computer that I'm going to have to put windows back on because I have proprietary software that I need,  I have a chrome book that I wouldn't dream of touching,  I've read that you can put linux ona usb drive but it's really complicated and I thoroughly enjoy my chromebook.   That leaves me with my new computer and I want to keep debian on it.  I had asked about dual booting before and I reread it but it's   over my head.  I know I will never be a guru, I know my limitations and even though I try very hard there are just somethings I don't understand even when they are explained to me in the simplist terms.  I'm not giving up on freebsd and when I can afford it I will buy a used computer.  _t's just_ not feasable right now because my daughter was hit by hurricane harvey and every extra penny is going to help her and her husband out.  I've throughly enjoyed this forum and the friendly users.  I will be back when I can.  Thanks again


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## sko (Sep 5, 2017)

Accellerated graphics support for post-Haswell is available via DRM-next: https://github.com/FreeBSDDesktop/freebsd-base-graphics/wiki

OTOH: I was/am running my skylake systems with the modesetting driver practically since skylake was available. Video Playback was even less of an issue with modesetting than with i915/intel driver, which always felt a bit sluggish (e.g. browser scrolling, moving windows etc). However , the intel driver from drm-next has come a long way since and apart from some occasional minor hiccups 'it just works' and I use it at my desktop at work and on my Laptop (Broadwell). As those Intel GPUs aren't really meant/suited for gaming anyways, for normal office work or the casual browsing and video playback at home the modesetting or even scfb drivers are working just fine and I haven't seen any real impact on battery life on my Laptop when using the modesetting or i915 driver.


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## ekingston (Sep 5, 2017)

bsmith said:


> Thanks for the advice.  I have a computer that I'm going to have to put windows back on because I have proprietary software that I need,  I have a chrome book that I wouldn't dream of touching,  I've read that you can put linux ona usb drive but it's really complicated and I thoroughly enjoy my chromebook.   That leaves me with my new computer and I want to keep debian on it.  ...  I've throughly enjoyed this forum and the friendly users.  I will be back when I can.  Thanks again



You could run FreeBSD in a virtual machine. Linux has KVM (although I've never tried running a GUI on it) and there is Virtual Box for Windows and Linux. FreeBSD runs fine as a guest in either. You won't get accelerated graphics, but it's a decent way to get in some practice and learn the differences between FreeBSD and Debian.


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## bsmith (Sep 5, 2017)

That's a great idea about using VB.  I am going to try it now.


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## amity88 (Sep 6, 2017)

If it's just the wifi card that's gone bad, can't you just replace it?
So far, my rule of the thumb for FreeBSD machines is:

Avoid post Haswell Intel processors. The graphics may not be supported.
Avoid Broadcom network cards. Intel and Qualcomm Atheros have really good support. YMMW with Realtek.
Stick with Intel graphics.


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## sko (Sep 6, 2017)

amity88 said:


> Avoid post Haswell Intel processors. The graphics may not be supported.



Just to clarify this point: This only means you don't have HW-acceleration for now, but modesetting or scfb are working perfectly fine. On many discussions about this topic one often gets the impression as if people are thinking "unsupported Intel graphics = my screen stays completely blank".
If you don't need 3D accelerated graphics (at least until 12.0 will be ready, which will get the DRM-next drivers), you don't have to restrict your search to old hardware.


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## ax0 (Sep 6, 2017)

ekingston said:


> You could run FreeBSD in a virtual machine. Linux has KVM (although I've never tried running a GUI on it) and there is Virtual Box for Windows and Linux. FreeBSD runs fine as a guest in either. You won't get accelerated graphics, but it's a decent way to get in some practice and learn the differences between FreeBSD and Debian.


As far as I know, the VirtualBox guest additions (compiled from ports with the right flags) should provide some form of 3D acceleration for VMs with 3D acceleration enabled. Also, to add to this suggestion, FreeBSD runs very well under Hyper-V, which is bundled with Windows 10 Pro, and graphics performance via TigerVNC is pretty good.


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## debguy (Oct 17, 2017)

if you have funding for a new laptop is a political question which depends highly on the parliament closest to you

BSD has always compiled from scratch (make World) and now also has "ports", games, GNU tools, even gaming.

however that doesn't mean BSD run by an individual is a replacement for a home media center solution - it will not do such a thing "easily" - it's not for an individual to attempt really. if your scope is more limited "i want full control of code" "i want to run just these applications" that take "n hours to set up on freeBSD", then you are within the realm of running freeBSD successfully


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## bsmith (Oct 17, 2017)

Thanks, I wound up buying a used computer and everything works fine after a few glitches.  I am a hands on  person.  I couldn't afford a new computer but hopefully this will give me a few good more years.  After I found the right computer and fixed my problems I didn't really think it was that hard.  The only thing I have to configure is sane.  Wish me luck.


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