# Server advice (virtual or metal?)



## RazAquato (Mar 31, 2021)

Edit: this post should've been in hardware I guess 
Hi. Long post, sorry in advance.
Brand new to the BSD scene, but I've decided to make a jump from linux to running FreeBSD on most of my servers, and need some hardware advice.

My hardware:
2x Lenovo thinkserver TS140 32gb ecc ram,  some old drives in Raid
Currently running windows server 2012 with Hyper-V on both servers as host OS, and a separate nas for backup of the HDD files.

(The idea at the time was to mirror the servers, so if one died, the other would continue.. But I never got to that)

Virtual servers pr today: two webserver running nginx, flask/python and one linux box for Homeseer 4. Nothing fancy.

I just bought an SSD drive to speed up the web servers. (putting the HDD images on that drive) .. And then started reading about jails in FreeBSD and snapshots and.. Well.. Let's say I'm interested in spending Easter in front of the screen 

So: my initial plan was to dedicate one entire server to a virtual FreeBSD installation, keeping windows as host, having the installation on the SSD thrive.
Simply because I love the idea of having one single file to copy/snapshot if anything goes wrong (and it'd be easy to revert if I regret the choice).

Then I started reading about zfs and figured I might just as well get an extra SSD, disconnect the old drives and run it on bare metal.

.... But then I'm worried about backup (is it easy to back up jails to a NAS?) etc..

I was also hoping it'd be possible to pool both machines into one shared cluster, but not even sure that is possible.

My needs/wants:
I need a server to run homeseer 4
I want a solution I can trust (meaning running bitwarden locally instead of in the cloud, as I don't trust my setup)
Having a NAS for the family (seafile?) would be nice instead of onedrive
A couple of webservers

And at least: to have a solution that is stable once it's set up

Let's pretend I can add more SSD disks and use zraid instead or the dedicated raid controller if needed. Pros/cons?


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## Snurg (Apr 1, 2021)

RazAquato said:


> windows as host


uh uh


RazAquato said:


> having one single file to copy/snapshot if anything goes wrong


good idea, but you'll


RazAquato said:


> regret the choice


as soon as you have to pay ransom.

My advice: do it the other way around.


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## Switch2BSD (Apr 1, 2021)

First: Use one server as FreeBSD host
Later: Use second server as FreeBSD host

Try bhyve via vm-bhyve, you will love FreeBSD in aspect of virtualization. And other things, so.
I am new user to BSD as you, but sooner you a few weeks. But I am sure that’s right choice. Only once experienced, you will learn why that.


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## RazAquato (Apr 1, 2021)

Oh, and finally: should I wait for FreeBSD 13, or is it safe to install the latest RC on host?


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## tingo (Apr 1, 2021)

You can use freebsd-update(8) to upgrade from a RC to a RELEASE (for 13.0 at least), so in that way it is safe. There is always the small chance that there is some showstopper bug lurking in the RC, but at this point (RC4), I'd say that it is at the same level of a showstopper bug lurking in the RELEASE; it could happen, but it is not very likely.

You should always test a new release (preferably on the exact same hardware) before committing to it, to avoid nasty surprises (you know of the kind "that's strange - my network card used to work, but in this new release it doesn't").

As always, be sure to document your setup, and keep backups (backups are only good if you have verified that they work).


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## Switch2BSD (Apr 2, 2021)

Currently, as new user, I used to install 12.2, or 11.4 if it is a template installation without choice of 12.
With `freebsd-update fetch install` and `freebsd-update upgrade ...`, you will easily upgrade to newer version without reinstallstion of OS, as it is rolling.


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## Switch2BSD (Apr 2, 2021)

Here is the reference link for virtual machine that I apply and feel best.









						GitHub - churchers/vm-bhyve: Shell based, minimal dependency bhyve manager
					

Shell based, minimal dependency bhyve manager. Contribute to churchers/vm-bhyve development by creating an account on GitHub.




					github.com
				




Although ZFS filesystem is a harder challenge, in my opinion, but you can post your questions in the forums. I feel here a warming air, except the forums banned all of IPv4 and IPv6 from my ISP, I have to go to cafe to surf forums to look for many answers from the forum without questioning.


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## Deleted member 30996 (Apr 2, 2021)

RazAquato said:


> Oh, and finally: should I wait for FreeBSD 13, or is it safe to install the latest RC on host?


If it was me and I had a server to run, I think I'd go with 12.2-RELEASE-p4.

But I'm just a guy with a bunch of laptops running FreeBSD.


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## kpedersen (Apr 2, 2021)

RazAquato said:


> Oh, and finally: should I wait for FreeBSD 13, or is it safe to install the latest RC on host?


I would possibly set up a small workstation VM (possibly even on a laptop) and have a play around with FreeBSD before you put it on a (production?) server.

It is safe using 12.2-RELEASE for this because FreeBSD rarely changes too drastically. Then when you have experimented for long enough and ready to install on your server, 13-RELEASE will probably be coming out by then.

If of course your server is a spare, then test 12.2-RELEASE directly on that rather than a VM but be prepared to wipe it a couple of times if things don't go smoothly


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## 6502 (Apr 2, 2021)

What will be the advantage of virtual server if it is hosted on your host? I think "metal" is the right choice.


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## Switch2BSD (Apr 3, 2021)

RazAquato said:


> My hardware:
> 2x Lenovo thinkserver TS140 32gb ecc ram,  some old drives in Raid
> Currently running windows server 2012 with Hyper-V on both servers as host OS, and a separate nas for backup of the HDD files.
> 
> (The idea at the time was to mirror the servers, so if one died, the other would continue.. But I never got to that)


This machine model has 3 bays of disk. You could have 3 similar disks to have 3-way RAID1 on ZFS. Other machine could be offline for saving electricity or running as backup machine. Webserver and HomeSeer etc, you put in virtual machine, so you could easily move to other machine.


RazAquato said:


> Virtual servers pr today: two webserver running nginx, flask/python and one linux box for Homeseer 4. Nothing fancy.
> 
> So: my initial plan was to dedicate one entire server to a virtual FreeBSD installation, keeping windows as host, having the installation on the SSD thrive.


I prefer FreeBSD as host and guests are Windows, Linux (HomeSeer, web server), FreeNAS...


RazAquato said:


> .... But then I'm worried about backup (is it easy to back up jails to a NAS?) etc...



You could rsync / scp your images of virtual machines from 1st to 2nd TS140 or other devices as backup.


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## Switch2BSD (Apr 3, 2021)

6502 said:


> What will be the advantage of virtual server if it is hosted on your host? I think "metal" is the right choice.


I think the advantage is that I could install many OS for different purposes with different settings AND that I could easily have a maintenance part by part, eg. reinstallation of one virtual machine (guests) instead of reinstallation of whole machine (host).


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## RazAquato (Apr 3, 2021)

I decided to run it bare metal with 4 ssd drives in a zfs mirror stripe, and one spinning disc as a backup on the machine (and will also back up to an external NAS) 

As a start, I'll run it for testing and getting to know freebsd. 


So last question: will putting a jail inside a jail give a worse performance? 

I figured: if I create a jail that hosts jails for the other servers: then I could simply tarball the "main" jail as a complete backup, not worrying about boot code etc.


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