# Choice of a web browser



## CraigHB (Feb 15, 2018)

I started with FreeBSD for the first time about a month ago.  Looking to use it for a desktop system.  All has gone surprisingly well, scripted my install, built a custom kernel, got X working, configured my window manager.  Happy with the system at this point, really happy actually.  Have to give a shout out for fvwm.  I've been using it for years since my first Linux install decades ago.  There's been a major revision to fvwm recently and I really like how it works now, excellent product.  Have everything tweaked to my liking, looks really good. 

So I need to decide on a web browser.  I know there's good ol' Chromium and Firefox, but was wondering if there might be a few gems for FreeBSD I've not come across. Should I just go with Firefox?  Not sure about Chromium due to the influence of Google and their tendency to mine personal data.  Or is Chromium okay anyway. Looking for some suggestions.


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## Snurg (Feb 15, 2018)

For my part I use Firefox 58 atm, because the timers have been adapted to make Meltdown and Spectre via Javascripts non-viable.
Used PaleMoon for a while, but the recent squabbles of their team regarding their demand to use their own (potentially outdated and unsafe) libraries instead of the system ones put me off, in addition to the uncertainty of Palemoon being Meltdown/Spectre hardened.
Chrome is a no-go for me because of their data mining.
I have it installed only to verify that my own creations are being displayed correctly.

And it's always nice to see that FVWM gets used by many guys who recognized what a mess "desktop managers" are...
And yes, the latest FVWM works very well, didn't encounter any issue.
This is my FvwmPager screenshot right now:


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## metsuke (Feb 15, 2018)

Firefox here as well.  It runs stable and fast on FreeBSD and is regularly updated.


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## Datapanic (Feb 15, 2018)

firefox-esr here.


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## unitrunker (Feb 15, 2018)

Firefox was my preferred browser going back to the Mozilla days. They recently added intrusive cruft (like Pocket) that make Firefox more intrusive like Chromium.

Opera would have been great but it is just too old now. I did not consider Pale Moon for the reasons as Snurg.

I did a simple test with Chromium, Firefox and Iridium.  

Boot, login, open browser, then open xterm and type 'netstat -4' (no IPv6 on the LAN) to see open connections.

FF and Chromium showed a large number of connections to who-knows-what while viewing a blank default starting page. Iridium had a mere three TCP connections - two short lived connections to 'iridium-br' and one open connection to 'dfw06s49-in-f14'. Right now, while typing this out, netstat shows only connections to this website - and nothing else. 

Iridium - compared to FF and Chromium - leaks *less* of your browsing habits. For the time being, Iridium is a tolerable compromise for privacy and compatibility (like video and audio work).


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## Snurg (Feb 15, 2018)

unitrunker 

Thanks for making me curious about Iridium! 
Looked at it and instantly decided to try out `pkg install www/iridium`.

I find very interesting that iridium is the first browser I encounter that disables third party cookies _by default_!
(This is very revealing, as practically all mainstream browsers hide the necessary settings very well, making one guess why)


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## drhowarddrfine (Feb 15, 2018)

fwiw, almost every web site you visit mines your data in some fashion. From mom-and-pop shops to the big ones, every client of mine grabs your data, as much as we can. Every commerce solution you have ever used, even before the internet, mined your data. Google is no exception. Microsoft does it, too. So does Bing and Outlook and Walmart and the New York Times and Visa and MasterCard and Disney.


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## CraigHB (Feb 15, 2018)

Haha, feeling like I need to quote my mother on that one, just because everyone does it...  Anyway that Iridim might be a good one to try.  Problem with smaller name browsers it they often don't work right on some pages.  Since web designers always test stuff with the big names you know everything will display right with those.  If Iridium can do the job, it sounds good.  It's amazing how heavy those name browsers have become, over two hundred meg for FF and almost the same for Chromium.

Snurg, yeah that's an impressive pager there.  I imagine you can load up a system pretty good with that.  I actually go a different way using a single page with the Icon Manager handling all the open programs.  Icon manager runs horizontal on the bottom like a win task bar.  In any case fvwm has amazing flexibility and has been simplified with a single configuration file which I like.  Mine is only a hundred lines or so, yet fvwm has not lost any of its features or flexibility.  I actually tried Fluxbox on this install, but blech, went back to fvwm.


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## giahung1997 (Feb 15, 2018)

Snurg said:


> unitrunker
> 
> Thanks for making me curious about Iridium!
> Looked at it and instantly decided to try out `pkg install www/iridium`.
> ...


With this browser I can't signin to my Google. It lighter than Chromium, but made me lose all of my bookmarks.


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## tobik@ (Feb 15, 2018)

giahung1997 said:


> With this browser I can't signin to my Google. It lighter than Chromium, but made me lose all of my bookmarks.


Integration with Google services would sort of defeat the point of Iridium


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## kpedersen (Feb 15, 2018)

giahung1997 said:


> but made me lose all of my bookmarks.


A browser (or any software) can't make you loose things. You either backed it up or didn't


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## fernandel (Feb 15, 2018)

I am using www/waterfox  and www/iridium.


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## michael_hackson (Feb 15, 2018)

I have a standing project to become more familiar with www/links, this is only for general browsing through articles for the funsies. I have this silly idea at some point I may end up at an older machine not running X and if I want to be able to browse I will have to stick to the text-based browsers.

Also some minimalists has mentioned www/qutebrowser.

The Iridium seems interesting though, may give it a look!


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## rufwoof (Feb 16, 2018)

Snurg said:


> For my part I use Firefox 58 atm, because the timers have been adapted to make Meltdown and Spectre via Javascripts non-viable.
> Used PaleMoon for a while, but the recent squabbles of their team
> .
> .
> ...


+1 (Firefox 58, totally avoiding PaleMoon)

I use twm instead of fvwm though.


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## tankist02 (Feb 16, 2018)

What about Midori, does anybody use it?


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## drhowarddrfine (Feb 16, 2018)

michael_hackson said:


> I have a standing project to become more familiar with www/links, this is only for general browsing through articles for the funsies.


Nowadays that's a difficult thing to do. Most sites give no credence to proper engineering and make it near impossible to read with text browsers. I require our web sites to be absolutely readable and usable in text browsers but this is a slap it together wild, west internet where "git 'er done" is more important than what the web really is--computer science.


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## giahung1997 (Feb 16, 2018)

tankist02 said:


> What about Midori, does anybody use it?


I used it in the past. If you want to load some toy like site it's OK. But for something serious it will very slow/unable to load at all/or just crash.


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## drhowarddrfine (Feb 16, 2018)

Just to verify, I installed www/midori and visited my company's more complicated sites plus amazon and facebook. All loaded and worked just fine without issue.


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## CraigHB (Feb 16, 2018)

I tried Midori.  It looks okay, it's light.  Just a basic web browser which is fine.  I tried Epiphany as well and it's similar to Midori, light and basic.  Right now I'm typing this with SeaMonkey which is a Mozilla offshoot.  So far I think I like this one the best.  It's not light by any means, but it's a suite and I can really use a mail client, newsgroup reader, and IRC client.  I also tried Iridium and it's pretty much just Chromium with the data mining removed, which is fine.  I think I'm leaning toward the Mozilla based SeaMonkey though.


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## unitrunker (Feb 16, 2018)

I just noticed ... "midori" is *almost* "iridium" spelled backwards. Nah, just coincidence.


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## trev (Feb 16, 2018)

CraigHB said:


> Right now I'm typing this with SeaMonkey which is a Mozilla offshoot. So far I think I like this one the best. It's not light by any means, but it's a suite and I can really use a mail client, newsgroup reader, and IRC client.



I've been using Seamonkey (was previously Mozilla Suite, and before that it was Netscape Communicator) since 1997. My email spool dates back to March 1997  I still find it the best browser under FreeBSD with the advantage that it is also my mail client.


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## Deleted member 48958 (Feb 16, 2018)

Thread 22761


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## giahung1997 (Feb 16, 2018)

CraigHB said:


> I tried Midori.  It looks okay, it's light.  Just a basic web browser which is fine.  I tried Epiphany as well and it's similar to Midori, light and basic.  Right now I'm typing this with SeaMonkey which is a Mozilla offshoot.  So far I think I like this one the best.  It's not light by any means, but it's a suite and I can really use a mail client, newsgroup reader, and IRC client.  I also tried Iridium and it's pretty much just Chromium with the data mining removed, which is fine.  I think I'm leaning toward the Mozilla based SeaMonkey though.


I'm also using SeaMonkey, too. But for composing HTML. As a Web Browser it lacks so many addons (nearly it doesn't have any serious addon, even Adblocker!).


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## trev (Feb 16, 2018)

giahung1997 said:


> I'm also using SeaMonkey, too. But for composing HTML. As a Web Browser it lacks so many addons (nearly it doesn't have any serious addon, even Adblocker!).



I use "uBlock origin" for ad blocking, "CYS" (Complete YouTube Saver) for downloading YouTube videos and "Lucifox" for reading EPUB ebooks in Seamonkey.


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## giahung1997 (Feb 16, 2018)

trev said:


> I use "uBlock origin" for ad blocking, "CYS" (Complete YouTube Saver) for downloading YouTube videos and "Lucifox" for reading EPUB ebooks in Seamonkey.


How can you? AMO only said Ublock Origin is only available for Firefox, even with old versions of it


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## trev (Feb 16, 2018)

Ublock Origin works for me - I probably installed the Firefox version in Seamonkey without any problems. See attached pic (top right).


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## scottro (Feb 16, 2018)

It's only being available for Firefox seems incorrect.  I use it on FreeBSD in Waterfox, and I think I did in Chromium (I don't have Chromium on FreeBSD right now) and also have it on Google-chrome in Linux.


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## drhowarddrfine (Feb 16, 2018)

Just to blow your minds, the same guy who wrote the original Mozilla code also wrote the original code used for Internet Explorer: Marc Andreessen.


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## trev (Feb 16, 2018)

The original code for Internet Explorer was from Mosaic which was developed at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign in 1992 - Marc Andreessen was head of that group. Microsoft licensed Mosaic to create Internet Explorer in 1995. Marc went on to start Mosaic Communications Corporation which became Netscape Communications Corporation and responsible for Netscape Navigator (browser only) and Netscape Communicator (browser, email client, newsreader and HTML editor). After Netscape folded, Netscape Communicator became Mozilla Suite and finally today's Seamonkey.


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## giahung1997 (Feb 16, 2018)

trev said:


> Ublock Origin works for me - I probably installed the Firefox version in Seamonkey without any problems. See attached pic (top right).


I want to ask how could you do that? I'm just wiped my old SeaMonkey installation for a reinstall and still see it only available for firefox, no seamonkey version. Sorry I'm noob, if there is some way to hack force install Firefox xpi on SeaMonkey please point to me, thanks.


scottro said:


> It's only being available for Firefox seems incorrect.  I use it on FreeBSD in Waterfox, and I think I did in Chromium (I don't have Chromium on FreeBSD right now) and also have it on Google-chrome in Linux.


Uhm, does Waterfox just Firefox optimized for 64 bit, huh? Ublock Origin has Chrome/Chromium version, I'm using it, too.


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## wolffnx (Feb 16, 2018)

Today i am using Firefox quantum , but sometimes is to heavy for my daily use, Seamonkey is nice too


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## scottro (Feb 16, 2018)

giahung1997, yes, you're right, Waterfox is pretty much a version of Firefox.  I misunderstood your first statement though, thinking you meant that Ublock would only work with Firefox (as opposed to Chrome, using the Chrome version)


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## trev (Feb 17, 2018)

giahung1997 said:


> I want to ask how could you do that? I'm just wiped my old SeaMonkey installation for a reinstall and still see it only available for firefox, no seamonkey version. Sorry I'm noob, if there is some way to hack force install Firefox xpi on SeaMonkey please point to me, thanks.



I went to the author's site (https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/releases) with Seamonkey, clicked on the *uBlock0.firefox.xpi  *file, it downloaded and installed as normal (you're lucky I was in the middle of bringing up a new FreeBSD computer and so had a freshly compiled Seamonkey available to play with for you).


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## giahung1997 (Feb 17, 2018)

trev said:


> I went to the author's site (https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/releases) with Seamonkey, clicked on the *uBlock0.firefox.xpi  *file, it downloaded and installed as normal (you're lucky I was in the middle of bringing up a new FreeBSD computer and so had a freshly compiled Seamonkey available to play with for you).


Thank you. I've followed your instruction and successfully installed Ublock Origin.


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## trev (Feb 17, 2018)

You're welcome! Long live Seamonkey


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## Deleted member 9563 (Feb 17, 2018)

CraigHB said:


> was wondering if there might be a few gems for FreeBSD I've not come across.



I'm not aware that there is any FreeBSD specific browser. I use FF58 now and it's very many times more fast and capable than Firefox 56 was. Simply no comparison at all. Apart from that, my favorite alternatives are Qupzilla and Lynx.


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## giahung1997 (Feb 17, 2018)

trev said:


> You're welcome! Long live Seamonkey


How you install other addons for daily use except Ublock Origin? I don't found any translator addons currently support it.


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## CraigHB (Feb 17, 2018)

ILUXA said:


> Thread 22761



Started in 2011, newest reply last year. 

I'm getting the best font rendering with Firefox, it's actually better than Chrome on my win machine.  There's some things I don't like about Chromium on FreeBSD.  Really have no complaints with FireFox other than it's probably the heaviest installation.  It has changed a lot since I last tried it a few years ago.

I think it's between SeaMonkey and Firefox at this point.  What's would be the pros and cons there?


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## drhowarddrfine (Feb 17, 2018)

CraigHB Do you get the  problem with tabs crashing?


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## trev (Feb 18, 2018)

giahung1997 said:


> How you install other addons for daily use except Ublock Origin? I don't found any translator addons currently support it.



For language translation I simply use the built-in Translate option: Tool > Translate Page.


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## Deleted member 9563 (Feb 18, 2018)

trev said:


> Translate option: Tool > Translate Page.


I don't see it. What browser is that?


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## trev (Feb 18, 2018)

Seamonkey -> Tools > Translate Page


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## Deleted member 30996 (Feb 18, 2018)

trev said:


> "CYS" (Complete YouTube Saver) for downloading YouTube videos...



That never did work well for me. www/youtube_dl is much better IMO. 

All you need is the link to the page of the video and it does the rest from the commandline.


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## scottro (Feb 18, 2018)

I agree. It's very simple to use.


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## CraigHB (Feb 18, 2018)

drhowarddrfine said:


> CraigHB Do you get the  problem with tabs crashing?



I'm using release 11.1 and it seems to be working okay with the FF58 pkg version for the most part, though I have had the startup tab crash a couple times leaving a dump from FF in the home directory.  I was playing around with settings a lot at the time so I just chalked it up to that.  I haven't used FF58 a whole lot yet, but if it does it all the time that would be a problem.


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## drhowarddrfine (Feb 18, 2018)

CraigHB I meant in chromium


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## CraigHB (Feb 18, 2018)

Oh Okay.  I'm not going to use Chromium.  I've been running Chrome on Windows for some time and have been threatening to get away from it for a while.  I'm running FF58 on the FreeBSD machine right now and have things set up the way I want.  It's running really good for me.  Probably going to stick with that.  It's also sold me on switching over on the Windows machines when I get around to it.  They've changed it a lot since I last tried it.  Happy with the changes, big improvements. It feels snappy too which is not something I can say for Chrome on Windows.  I can't see a reason not to run it over SeaMonkey other than it's a bit heavier.


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## forest_bear59 (Feb 18, 2018)

Qupzilla any one here? Installed it some days ago and find it a very useable browser.


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## MarcoB (Feb 18, 2018)

I'm a Qupzilla user too. Unfortunately the port version is becoming quite old, so I use Firefox-ESR when I want to be on the safe side. Looking forward to the new Falkon browser though.


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## rigoletto@ (Feb 18, 2018)

IIRC the new QupZilla version is in the kde-ports, already renamed to Falkon.


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## eax.qbyte (May 22, 2018)

lebarondemerde said:


> IIRC the new QupZilla version is in the kde-ports, already renamed to Falkon.


Does it mean Qupzilla is preffered to be used in kde? how about xfce? which browser seems to best in that environment ?


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## ldbeth (May 22, 2018)

eax.qbyte said:


> Does it mean Qupzilla is preffered to be used in kde? how about xfce? which browser seems to best in that environment ?



Both qupzilla and Falkon does not require KDE specific components to run with full functionality, thought you defenitly need some qt5 libs. I use Falkon with my own custom WM without desktop environment and it could be one of the best Qt based browser.


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## MarcoB (May 22, 2018)

Qupzilla is deprecated and is now called Falkon. Falkon uses Qt5 so that is probably your best option on KDE. On XFCE Firefox is probably the best.


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## Wozzeck.Live (May 22, 2018)

www/netsurf
For a simple X context with a Window manager like fluxbox.
For those who don't want to setup a full desktop as Gnome, KDE, and want the fewest dependencies
Run with its own renderer engine, no javascript, compile very fast. Incredibly lightweight.
You won't be able to play youtube, but you will be able to read most of site. Enough for administrator

www/firefox
Current version is 60. Since 57, Firefox has a brand new and fast engine Quantum. This is now, according to me, the best choice for FreeBSD... and also for Windows and Linux. This is the only Web browser I use across all my devices.
I use a little Opera (Blink) under Windows and Linux because there is a free embedded VPN, for the rest of time I use Firefox.
As now, Firefox has the same speed as Chromium, perhaps faster. Very stable.

www/opera
This is  opera 16 with presto engine
This was the FreeBSD users favourite and beloved web browser... light but powerful, fast, stable, few dependencies
Before Firefox... I was using Opera on Windows. Good souvenirs.... a web browser that brought many things... speed dial, embedded Javascript control...
But Opera has dropped Presto and lost his mind switching to Blink (Chromium) engine.
This browser is not developed anymore.  I always hope that someone could relaunch Presto Engine in an opensource project to give us more Web Renderer engines alternative.

www/chromium
I don't recommend it, and I frankly hate it. But Chrome (not Chromium) on Windows or Linux, no problem.
Many users encounter recurrent stability issues (it seems to depend on graphic hardware)

Compiling time IS A NIGHTMARE. This is simply incredible. Takes more time to compile than LibreOffice.

The reason is very simple.... at this moment each time Chromium recompile the Renderer Engine (Blink)
Blink is not offered as a separated package. There is now Webengine, but this is under QT5. Chromium is under GTK3

www/iridium
Iridium is basically chromium with minor modification and exactly the same stability issues.

www/waterfox
This browser gained popularity at a time it was the only Firefox 64 bit incarnation for Windows
Since Firefox launched his regular 64 build release, I personally don't see much interest for it
Still experimental under FreeBSD. I don't recommend it because still runs with old Gecko engine.
Gecko with time became incredibly slow, this is the reason why many users switched to Chrome
On the contrary could be interesting for those who want to keep the XUL extensions (based as today on Gecko 56 Engine)

www/palemoon
An old school Gecko engine, for aficionados. At the time of Firefox Gecko, could be interesting because faster...
But now with Quantum, in my opinion Firefox renders Pale Moon obsolete.

www/midori
Webkit based. I never manage to make it work well. Not developed a lot.

www/qupzilla
Wekbit based, but deprecated. This browser is no more updated because project switched to KDE under Falkon

www/falkon
Webengine (= Chromium Blink engine for QT5) based. Probably the best 'lightweight' alternative, powerfull enough to play youtube

www/qutebrowse
Python written, keyboard driven web browser based on Webkit and/or Webengine

www/lynx
A console Web Browser

www/otter-browser
Can't say much. New web browser based on Webkit and/or Webengine.
It claims to make revival the best things of Opera 12 (presto).... wait and see


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## Deleted member 48958 (May 22, 2018)

Wozzeck.Live said:


> www/firefox
> Current version is 60. Since 57, Firefox has a brand new and fast engine Quantum. This is now, according to me, the best choice for FreeBSD... and also for Windows and Linux. This is the only Web browser I use accross all my devices.
> I use a little Opera (Blink) under Windows and Linux because there is a free embedded VPN, for the rest of time I use Firefox.
> As now, Firefox has the same speed as Chromium, perhaps faster. Very stable.



While it isn't bad, by default its design is horrible IMO, with its huge tab bar and navigation bar.
But after adding few lines to ~/.mozilla/firefox/<your_profile_dir>/chrome/userChrome.css:

```
/* disable blue line on selected tab */
.tabbrowser-tab > .tab-stack > .tab-background > .tab-line[selected=true],
.tabbrowser-tab:hover > .tab-stack > .tab-background > .tab-line:not([selected=true]) {
    opacity: 0 !important;
}

/* reduce minimum tab height */
#tabbrowser-tabs,
#tabbrowser-tabs > .tabbrowser-arrowscrollbox,
.tabbrowser-tabs[positionpinnedtabs] > .tabbrowser-tab[pinned] {
    min-height: 25px !important;
}
```
and switching interface to compat mode (Customize --> Density --> Compact) it looks pretty OK —





IMO much better than




(userChrome.css lines were tacken from here.)

Also it is good idea to reduce minimal tab width, open about:config and edit "browser.tabs.tabMinWidth" to something more usable, change it to 50 or 60 for example.


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## betso (May 23, 2018)

www/surf is a very lightweight suckless browser using WebKit2. I use it for browsing local stuff (e.g. documentation) embedded in my fluxbox menu.


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## meine (Jun 18, 2018)

I tried different browsers following the suggestions here, notably the remarks of Wozzeck.Live above.

Choosing a browser depends on one's needs. I need a browser for dumb surfing, this forum, twitter, mastodon, but also for managing my bank account. Further I'd like to have as less tools as possible, one GUI web browser should do most jobs. I use a second and lighter browser just to read locally stored HTML-files.

Unfortunately there are a lot of websites that (unspoken) require one of the Big Browsers to use the website properly. This might be something to keep in mind and you might need to test this for your needed websites.

I tried all browsers below on my Acer EL 1200 (AMD Athlon 64 2650e / 1.6 GHz, 2G RAM), not a very potent machine.

firefox is an excellent browser, but consumes far too much CPU and gets questionable remarks on privacy -- both my main reasons to look around and dump it;

midori mostly works well, but can't handle all websites I need properly;

otter-browser is slow loading and has too many hangs and crashes sometimes when organizing my bookmarks. I don't like the absence of export possibility of my bookmarks;

falkon, former qupzilla, looked promising, but also had regular hangs on webpages. Searches from the URL-bar always caused hangs, although it was set in preferences. Main reason to dump it is that `pkg` sanity check and deleting the software caused my system to hang on it;

seamonkey does a decent job without making my CPU run wild every time. The look and feel remembers me of my first GUI surfing in the Nineties. The extra modules (mail, RSS etc) that I don't need are out of sight and no hindrance;

dillo is my workhorse for locally saved manuals etc. Never lets you down, but makes surfing the web very bare bone;

netsurf-gtk is a similar workhorse, but is better at graphical content. A very good choice when there is no need for JavaScript frills etc, enhancing privacy and security;

lynx is and excellent tool when working in CLI only, and works seamless with tools like `newsboat` (RSS) and `rainbowstream` (Python Twitter client).

I hope my review is of any help for others looking for a better browser.


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## Spartrekus (Jun 18, 2018)

choice of gui web browser : *none* (much too slow unfortunately on a cheap PC) 
Web browsers (with GUI) needs quite a lot of hardware power.

"*links*" would be a good advice to check or to have a look.


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## cpm@ (Jun 18, 2018)

www/chromium [1] and www/iridium [2] will be updated to the latest stable release.

[1] https://chromium.googlesource.com/c....3325.181..67.0.3396.62?pretty=fuller&n=10000
[2] https://github.com/iridium-browser/iridium-browser/releases/tag/iridium-browser-2018.5.67

It is currently on my to-do list.


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## obsigna (Jun 18, 2018)

cpm@ said:


> www/chromium [1] and www/iridium [2] will be updated to the latest stable release.
> 
> [1] https://chromium.googlesource.com/c....3325.181..67.0.3396.62?pretty=fuller&n=10000
> [2] https://github.com/iridium-browser/iridium-browser/releases/tag/iridium-browser-2018.5.67
> ...


Please may we have it with LLVM-base as the build dependency?


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## Maxnix (Jun 18, 2018)

I am surprised that no one suggested www/deforaos-surfer yet. It has its downsides[1], but for dumb surfing it is still a lightweight graphical browser with javascript support. 

[1] It crashes when closing a tab while the page is still loading, doesn't play videos and javascript support is not very stable on x86.


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## Oko (Jun 18, 2018)

Chromium for me due to the good works of Google guys Neil Provost (former OpenBSD developer from his Ph.D. student days at the University of Michigan) and Adam Langley

https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=152871660307018&w=2

Adam Langley blog is good read


https://www.imperialviolet.org/


Now if FreeBSD proper guys could learn to encrypt /tmp by default and do few things Shawn was doing on HardenedBSD you would even have a usable secure desktop. I do share nostalgic feelings by one of the previous posts about Opera powered by Presto engine which was available on FreeBSD but not on Open (speaking of native binaries not Linux emulation crap). It was way ahead of its times.


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## Spartrekus (Jun 18, 2018)

Oko said:


> Chromium for me due to the good works of Google guys Neil Provost (former OpenBSD developer from his Ph.D. student days at the University of Michigan) and Adam Langley
> 
> https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=152871660307018&w=2
> 
> ...



buuuuu  for Chromium: Welcome to the GOOGLE Empire 

Google is like Microsoft or Apple. Tie up of users...


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## Deleted member 30996 (Jun 18, 2018)

I've been using www/firefox-esr, www/palemoon or www/seamonkey exclusively for some time. I'm an extension zealot though.

www/opera never works well for me and www/dillo is more of a disappointment than anything these days. By the time I get done compiling www/chromium it's been updated again and needs recompilied...

I do keep www/lynx installed to fall back on but seldom use it anymore.


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## trev (Jun 19, 2018)

www/dillo showed promise on Rpi/Rpi2 but development has slowed to a crawl and possibly come to a dead stop by the looks of its developer website.

I'm still using my tried and true SeaMonkey on FreeBSD 10.4 and late 2009 Mac Mini with my original Netscape Communicator mail spool extracted from Windows NT (circa 1994).

As for Firefox, the irony is that it was supposed to be a light and fast dedicated browser replacement for SeaMonkey (then named Mozilla Suite) but has grown to such an extent from the original concept that it now uses more CPU and more memory than the combined SeaMonkey browser, mail client, newsgroup reader, RSS and HTML composer


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## drhowarddrfine (Jun 19, 2018)

trev said:


> As for Firefox, the irony is that it was supposed to be a light and fast dedicated browser replacement for SeaMonkey


Well, no. First there was Firefox. Then came Seamonkey.

Fun fact. When I worked at SGI, James Clark was at the same lunchroom table where he casually mentioned to us there about meeting some guy named Marc about some software for reading stuff on the internet. I didn't understand what he was talking about. Those were the good old days.


----------



## trev (Jun 19, 2018)

drhowarddrfine said:


> Well, no. First there was Firefox. Then came Seamonkey.



In name only.

First there was Netscape Communicator (released 1997; source code released with open source licence by Netscape in 1998), it was then renamed Mozilla Suite (1998-2006), and finally renamed SeaMonkey (2007 when Mozilla decided to concentrate on Firefox). Firefox arrived in 2002.


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## drhowarddrfine (Jun 19, 2018)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefox



> On April 3, *2003*, the Mozilla Organization announced that they planned to *change their focus from the Mozilla Suite to Firefox* and Thunderbird.[40] *The community-driven SeaMonkey was formed and eventually replaced the Mozilla Application Suite in 2005.*


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## Phishfry (Jun 19, 2018)

trev said:


> www/dillo showed promise on Rpi/Rpi2 but development has slowed to a crawl and possibly come to a dead stop by the looks of its developer website.


Actually its dillo3 but the port is called www/dillo2
Just because there is not alot of activity does not mean its dead.
I find it works great for some sites. The lightest browser i could find that is standards compliant.


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## Oko (Jun 19, 2018)

Phishfry said:


> Actually its dillo3 but the port is called www/dillo2
> Just because there is not alot of activity does not mean its dead.
> I find it works great for some sites. The lightest browser i could find that is standards compliant.


Dillo is work of a single Chilean software engineer Jorge Arellano Cid. It started 1999 and never gained any traction. He stopped the work on multiple occasions trying to get some money out of commercial users. He never succeeded. The browser was barely usable in 1999 let alone now. It just recently started supporting frames. IIRC it is not supporting fully CSS.

The only independent browser which is semi-usable at least for browsing this forum is NetSurf.  Unfortunately in the real world current choice is Chromium or Firefox. xombrero was very promising but unfortunately Apple and Google effectively closed source WebKit again which killed xombrero.

The real problem is not the lack of skins/GUIs which many incorrectly refer as separate "browsers" but the lack of diversity among web browser engines. Maybe one of many web insiders who frequent this forum can shed some light but in my understanding modern web is so complex that only major commercial entities can develop web engine. Currently the choice is MS Trident,  Gecko used by Firefox but which originates in Netscape (which was commercial product and not open source friendly contrary to the picture Mozilla foundation wants to present), and finally  WebKit which is semi-closed proprietary Apple/Google product with essentially two different forks used by Chrome and Safari. 

For the record Presto engine (used by my beloved Opera browser) was developed by Norwegian post office which almost bankrupted because of it. It is such a great pity that Presto was never open sourced.  Above mentioned NetSurf does use its own non-proprietary engine which is remarkable considering the fact that it is a work of volunteers.

P.S. Text browsers are separate topic and I could make a long post about it. They do use their own web engines but they are not as secure as one would  think.


----------



## cpm@ (Jun 19, 2018)

obsigna said:


> Please may we have it with LLVM-base as the build dependency?



I have pending to commit a patch to build chromium with native LLVM 6.0

https://github.com/cpu82/freebsd-chromium/commit/a3449c03521cfc5378fbb4f4c4dfb01c0253d556
https://github.com/cpu82/freebsd-chromium/commit/056b071cf334ecdb08a24cb6fa31bd4319cffa41


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## drhowarddrfine (Jun 19, 2018)

Oko What has happened is a platform switch from the desktop computer to the clou....err...I mean the web. More people get their information from the web using mobile devices now than the desktop. So the OS no longer matters to the average user and all the power resides in the browser. Therefore, all the efforts to grab that market is wrapped up into who owns the browser. 

Of course, you need all the capabilities of a desktop computer platform to garner that and to do so requires a lot of features and functions. So browsers are now as complicated as operating systems which require a lot of manpower to make work on as many platforms as possible including the clou....I mean web.


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## obsigna (Jun 19, 2018)

cpm@ said:


> I have pending to commit a patch to build chromium with native LLVM 6.0
> 
> https://github.com/cpu82/freebsd-chromium/commit/a3449c03521cfc5378fbb4f4c4dfb01c0253d556
> https://github.com/cpu82/freebsd-chromium/commit/056b071cf334ecdb08a24cb6fa31bd4319cffa41


Much appreciated, thank you!


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## talsamon (Jun 19, 2018)

There is a problem with www/netsurf:

```
pkg-static: libutf8proc-1.3.1.3 conflicts with utf8proc-2.1.0 (installs files into the same place).  Problematic file: /usr/local/lib/libutf8proc.so
*** Error code 70
```
textproc/utf8proc which installed this file is a dependency of devel/subversion.

(filed a PR - PR 229164).

I think everybody needs subversion, so it is not installable.


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## Spartrekus (Jun 19, 2018)

"dillo" is a good way to go if webpage is basic html, next to netsurf. 

likely dillo and netsurf are most common light, fast, web browser with GUI and X.


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## gnath (Jun 20, 2018)

Reading this thread, I have installed chromium from package tree but found venerable. This was same for package vlc, due to libsndfile. Those who are using ports tree can avoid this situation. Probably packages in package tree are being created by a method which can not check sanity accordingly.
Installing www/firefox is still now a problem ( try,try & try).
I use www/firefox & www/palemoon from package tree on laptop & from ports on desktop.


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## Deleted member 30996 (Jun 20, 2018)

I just spent the evening upgrading www/firefox-esr to 60.1.0esr, fiddling with it mostly to get around the now long vulnerable audio/libsndfile and update everything else that needed it, only to find out it now uses the Firefox Quantum Engine.

Which I do not like to begin with and broke a couple of my legacy extensions to make matters worse.


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## Deleted member 30996 (Jun 20, 2018)

gnath said:


> Reading this thread, I have installed chromium from package tree but found venerable. This was same for package vlc, due to libsndfile. Those who are using ports tree can avoid this situation. Probably packages in package tree are being created by a method which can not check sanity accordingly.



pkg will gladly install a vulnerability for you without asking questions.

+1 for ports.

I uninstalled audio/libsndfile from one of my other machines a couple months ago and haven't had a problem with watching videos or listening to music since:

https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/any-solutions-for-the-libsndfile-vulnerability.65321/#post-383120

It's the box I'm rebuilding ports on now I reference above


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## drhowarddrfine (Jun 20, 2018)

gnath Chromium is unusable. I don't understand why you have problems running Firefox as its our every day browser for quite a while.


----------



## nekoexmachina (Jun 20, 2018)

I am upset at modern browsers to be honest. All I want is read some text, and as text reading software, every browser sucks balls.

I was quite happy with vimb-gtk3, but webkit.


----------



## gnath (Jun 20, 2018)

drhowarddrfine said:


> problems running Firefox


I had no problem with firefox. Some one told about chromium & opera. So I tried both from pkg tree and deleted after some time. Actually in devuan, there was only firefox-esr & waiting for EOL. So here I am using palemoon & firefox.
Now I am really confused about firefox-esr-60 & firefox-61, two channels.
As far as safety is concern one would like to have something like (fire)jail with little configuration. All most all sites, other than text based, are not safe.


----------



## Spartrekus (Jun 20, 2018)

nekoexmachina said:


> I am upset at modern browsers to be honest. All I want is read some text, and as text reading software, every browser sucks balls.
> 
> I was quite happy with vimb-gtk3, but webkit.



I am surprised that at least someone says this thing. It is not too much the browsers, but largely HTML and what it became. Look heavy google drive or gmail, ... or MS outlook, and all the junks of ads on any webpage. Cookies pop#ups,... https://edition.cnn.com, youtube, bbc, ... take ages to load. Eats up your memory.
Then, join "links" this is fast. 

Really why not dropping the whole internet, making a another WEB with simple alternative to HTML ? HTML, what the point. A markup language should be delimited by a  ";" or be looking like a C language or line defined.  //     /* */    The regular <" " ,... >  stuffs aren't easy to read sometimes.
Markdown or markups, are good markup languages, which may need interests... to replace the modern slow HTML, Java, PHP, CSS,...

HTML was originally made for sciences and exchanges for research. Knowledge platform for everyone. 

HTML is now business and commercial. Hence, there is not research interests behind the spider of web.

Consequently, HTML (and all derivatives) aren't any longer dedicated to research and communications.


----------



## Deleted member 30996 (Jun 20, 2018)

gnath said:


> Now I am really confused about firefox-esr-60 & firefox-61, two channels.



Until the bump yesterday www/firefox-esr was essentially Firefox before it went Quantum Strangeness. Most, if not all, of the extensions the Quantum Engine broke still worked on ESR.




gnath said:


> As far as safety is concern one would like to have something like (fire)jail with little configuration. All most all sites, other than text based, are not safe.



That's why I'm such an advocate for browser extensions. You can't even disable JavaScript in the Firefox options menu like you used to be able to do. See Mozilla NoScript or uMatrix extensions for that option.


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Jun 20, 2018)

Spartrekus said:


> It is not too much the browsers, but largely HTML and what it became.


Little of what people complain about has to do with HTML at all. Most of it is everything but HTML and, even then, it's not the language but the people behind the web site. HTML doesn't create bloated web sites, people create bloated web sites.

A number of designers advocate the return to a minimalist web site. Just a couple of days ago, I thought I would volunteer my services to a group which took a minimalist style. The first comment was that they thought it was wonderful because everything was so clear and obvious. But, after a few minutes, "that guy" brought up that similar sites had magic, and fireworks and explosions and popups and carousels and balloons and we should have it, too! I'd spend more time on all that than on the rest of the site and gave them a take it or leave it comment. 

This "me too" stuff is what compounds problems with web sites where non-designers and UI specialists attempt to create a site based on what they've seen elsewhere and not based on experience and research. These are the slow loading sites that hang waiting for some off site ad resource to load while running an animation which serves only the purpose of being "cool". 

But HTML and programs and the browsers, to an extent,  are not the problem.


----------



## Deleted member 30996 (Jun 20, 2018)

Spartrekus said:


> Really why not dropping the whole internet, making a another WEB with simple alternative to HTML ? HTML, what the point. A markup language should be delimited by a  ";" or be looking like a C language or line defined.  //     /* */    The regular <" " ,... >  stuffs aren't easy to read sometimes.
> Markdown or markups, are good markup languages, which may need interests... to replace the modern slow HTML, Java, PHP, CSS,...



My site only uses Valid XHTML and CSS, is very simple to read and typed by hand. View the source of the tutorial page. Sans images it loads like lightning. Here are the result for my text only tutorial page, wall of text that it is:




https://gtmetrix.com/reports/trihexagonal.org/DF5Pe3Ps

There are more stats on the page. Test server region is Vancouver, Canada, my site is hosted in Sofia, Bulgaria.

Netcraft lists it. The only active Server-Side Technology is XML and the only trackers are my code validation widgets on every page. Because if it isn't Valid, it isn't XHTML.



drhowarddrfine said:


> But, after a few minutes, "that guy" brought up that similar sites had magic, and fireworks and explosions and popups and carousels and balloons and we should have it, too!



Dancing Baloney.


----------



## Spartrekus (Jun 20, 2018)

drhowarddrfine said:


> Little of what people complain about has to do with HTML at all. Most of it is everything but HTML and, even then, it's not the language but the people behind the web site. HTML doesn't create bloated web sites, people create bloated web sites.
> 
> A number of designers advocate the return to a minimalist web site. Just a couple of days ago, I thought I would volunteer my services to a group which took a minimalist style. The first comment was that they thought it was wonderful because everything was so clear and obvious. But, after a few minutes, "that guy" brought up that similar sites had magic, and fireworks and explosions and popups and carousels and balloons and we should have it, too! I'd spend more time on all that than on the rest of the site and gave them a take it or leave it comment.
> 
> ...



We have today a plethora of programming languages and markups.

The problem lies that those websites are for commercial purposes, so they use a web browser for some aims which aren't made for it.
Shall a webbrowser be what it is not meant to be. Ideally big companies use everything over the browser, to lock forever the users, and tie up the "customer"
They never give the source code of the php,... stuffs behind, so why shall we use them.

We do not use close source softwares, right? We can't, we use free opensource for open scientific community and computer sciences.


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Jun 21, 2018)

Trihexagonal said:


> My site only uses Valid XHTML


Yeah but





> Connection: Keep-Alive
> [*]Content-Type: *text/html; *charset=UTF-8
> [*]Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 23:37:34 GMT
> [*]Keep-Alive: timeout=3, max=170
> ...




Writing XHTML but serving it as HTML is known as "tag soup". Your serve what is, essentially, broken HTML and the browser has to figure out what you meant with the HTML parser. To truly deliver XHTML, you need to serve it as application/xhtml+xml


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## Deleted member 30996 (Jun 21, 2018)

Thank you very much for bringing that to my attention. I am a stickler for accuracy in my work and would have a panic attack if I discovered I had accidentally uploaded invalid code.

I'll get right on it.


----------



## giahung1997 (Jun 21, 2018)

What do you think about WebAsmembly?


----------



## Deleted member 30996 (Jun 21, 2018)

drhowarddrfine, I am always open to constructive criticism, value your opinion and respect brutal honesty. Since this is a thread about browsers, and interoperability isn't off-topic, feel free to fire away. I can take it as well as I can dish it out.

Web design is not my strong suit. I know it looks plain and like something straight off GeoCities. That's where I put up my first site, and a minimalist web site has been brought into the discussion.

Though for my upcoming 1 Year Online Anniversary next month I might have a little dancing baloney in convivial celebration. And everything will be Free!!!


----------



## antarasumsel (Jun 21, 2018)

wrong, willing to pay but not enough money.
forced to use a free pack.
maap for who made the application


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## drhowarddrfine (Jun 21, 2018)

giahung1997 said:


> What do you think about WebAsmembly?


I like the idea if you need that but many people think it replaces JavaScript. It doesn't so don't let that creep into your thinking. When you feel the need for speed, that's when you might turn to WebAssembly.

Trihexagonal I often find people who write XHTML and claim they are using it only because they used the syntax. They often don't realize that the browser determines which parser to use based on the HTTP header first. I roll my eyes when I see people put a closing slash on <br /> and <img /> and claim, "so I'll be compatible with XHTML", when the reality is they just broke their site for HTML.

I love XHTML, and the computer scientists at the W3C were on the right track in wanting to drop HTML in favor of it (and XML), but today's script kiddies find it too complicated. "Draconian" is the word they like to use. But now we find new specifications and APIs dealing with custom elements, properties, and so on just like XML and people think it's wonderful. We've come full circle and no one seems to have noticed.


----------



## giahung1997 (Jun 21, 2018)

drhowarddrfine said:


> I like the idea if you need that but many people think it replaces JavaScript. It doesn't so don't let that creep into your thinking. When you feel the need for speed, that's when you might turn to WebAssembly.


I didn't think so. I want to know your view about asm.js and wasm. People nowaday have a lot of transpilers to compile code from a language to run inside the browser, think the browser now became an OS inside an OS and it's cool. They've transpilers to transpile C++ code to run on browser. I wonder how dynamic memory allocation works inside a browser


----------



## Deleted member 30996 (Jun 21, 2018)

drhowarddrfine said:


> Trihexagonal I often find people who write XHTML and claim they are using it only because they used the syntax. They often don't realize that the browser determines which parser to use based on the HTTP header first. I roll my eyes when I see people put a closing slash on <br /> and <img /> and claim, "so I'll be compatible with XHTML", when the reality is they just broke their site for HTML.



I taught myself to write XHTML and CSS for fun at W3Schools in 1998 or 1999. I promote them and have an "I Heart Validator" button support link. Some of my markup dates back to what I've written 14 years ago, saved, and if I've written it once I copy and paste what I need as practice. I never knew about the meta tag error and am honestly glad you told me. My markup _has_ to be right.

I have a website at Angelfire I moved from GeoCities that shows I've been doing it wrong since 2000. Crosshair cursor included:

Solar Storm Monitor

My author and machine username remain the same. It's one I eventually tuned into an XHTML 1.0 Frameset site at my uberkomplex domain. Their injection of ads invalidated my markup, and irked me to no end, but my CSS is still valid. NASA link code has changed since I abandoned it so some of my guages are no longer functional:

I'm a Master of XHTML Frameset, can lay them in any arrangement top, bottom and sides, or offset them to spiral down into a 1" square in the middle as an exercise. All useless skill today. I do have a mock Frameset site made up for my domain though.


----------



## gnath (Jun 21, 2018)

drhowarddrfine said:


> it's not the language but the people behind the web site


Right people with right intention in right place is rare combination now a days.


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Jun 21, 2018)

Trihexagonal <frameset> is obsolete.

https://html.spec.whatwg.org/dev/obsolete.html#obsolete


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## Deleted member 30996 (Jun 21, 2018)

drhowarddrfine said:


> Trihexagonal <frameset> is obsolete.



Yes, I know, or I would whip one up in a flash.  it would cause untold havoc in a smart phone to say the least, not to mention search engines.

However, my XHTML 1.0 Frameset markup is still valid as of right now. It uses a head, foot and content frame in addition to the index.html to bring it all together, and scales down like it should with the screen size. The index is the only Frameset page, the rest are XHTML Transitional:



I see now that W3C recommends application/xhtml+xml.

https://www.w3.org/International/articles/serving-xhtml/


----------



## Spartrekus (Jun 21, 2018)

drhowarddrfine said:


> Yeah but
> 
> 
> 
> ...



we should let (x)html lives its commercial purpose and development, supported by biggest Apple, Microsoft, Google,... of computer industry.
A good way would be maybe to re-visit the html for other purposes than only money.e


----------



## cpm@ (Aug 17, 2018)

Iridium update to  2018.5.67 is pending to be committed.

In case someone is interested in doing a quick test, here it is:

https://github.com/cpu82/iridium


----------



## rigoletto@ (Apr 9, 2019)

I never used it but there is Wasabee too.

*[EDIT]*

For the record Wasabee is written in Ada.


----------



## fernandel (Apr 9, 2019)

I am using www/firefox with some addons and changes with help of https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/2018/09/firefox-hardening-guide/
I am using also www/qutebrowser but I am not sure about browser security. How is yours experiece, please.


----------



## rigoletto@ (Apr 10, 2019)

For the record I use just Firefox.


----------



## Spartrekus (Apr 10, 2019)

Spartrekus said:


> we should let (x)html lives its commercial purpose and development, supported by biggest Apple, Microsoft, Google,... of computer industry.
> A good way would be maybe to re-visit the html for other purposes than only money.e



The web killed html.

Maybe we need to use another html and leave it to junk.

What about md for a new markup language ? What about a fast, new experience markdown web browser only (no html at all)?


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Apr 10, 2019)

Spartrekus said:


> The web killed html.


Uh. Everything uses HTML. You can't create a web page without it.


Spartrekus said:


> What about md for a new markup language ?


md needs to be interpreted somewhere along the line and it always gets interpreted into HTML. md also defeats the "separation of concerns" since it involves styling. It makes no sense to do this.


----------



## fernandel (Apr 12, 2019)

rigoletto@ said:


> I never used it but there is Wasabee too.
> 
> *[EDIT]*
> 
> For the record Wasabee is written in Ada.


It is not a browser but it looks good:
https://apdf.sourceforge.io/


----------



## rigoletto@ (Apr 12, 2019)

I've thought about porting apdf already, I may do at some point.


----------



## Spartrekus (Apr 14, 2019)

rigoletto@ said:


> I've thought about porting apdf already, I may do at some point.


what's the meaning of https://apdf.sourceforge.io/bindings_free_120.png ?


----------



## rigoletto@ (Apr 14, 2019)

Spartrekus I didn't looked close but it should be about binding for another languages. I mean, apdf is written in Ada, and if someone want to integrate it in a software written in another language that would need bindings; however this message is for the Ada community, like if you want something that does what apdf does you can use it (apdf), and not need to mess writing bindings for your Ada software.


----------



## skeezicks_6 (Apr 14, 2019)

I have Firefox, Konqueror, and Falkon.


----------



## abishai (Apr 28, 2019)

I'll try to slightly hijack this thread. Looks like Palemoon is going to be removed soon https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports?view=revision&revision=497995 and version in port is unsupported and vulnerable.
I use it for Pentadactyl extension as I prefer vim-like binding. As Waterfox was removed too, am I right that there are no browsers left with XUL extensions except Palemoon?
That's really bad.


----------



## fernandel (Apr 28, 2019)

abishai said:


> I'll try to slightly hijack this thread. Looks like Palemoon is going to be removed soon https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports?view=revision&revision=497995 and version in port is unsupported and vulnerable.
> I use it for Pentadactyl extension as I prefer vim-like binding. As Waterfox was removed too, am I right that there are no browsers left with XUL extensions except Palemoon?
> That's really bad.


Did you try www/qutebrowser?


> qutebrowser is a keyboard-focused browser with a minimal GUI. It’s based on Python and PyQt5 and free software, licensed under the GPL.
> It was inspired by other browsers/addons like dwb and Vimperator/Pentadactyl.


----------



## Spartrekus (Apr 28, 2019)

I am not so sure that a browser should run on qt and python.
Does is really help to find the best web browser to use something that is definitely slow i.e. html , i.e. the whole web.

Is there something else than Internet, especially for scientists and academic stuffs.
Maybe have Carnegie, MIT, ... a sub internet that would be dedicated to serious stuffs.


----------



## abishai (Apr 28, 2019)

www/qutebrowser doesn't have uMatrix-like functionality. Actually, it doesn't have even ad blocker. I can't imagine myself browsing web without all third party stuff disabled in uMatrix by default. Even my online banking has google script included after login.


----------



## fernandel (Apr 28, 2019)

abishai said:


> www/qutebrowser doesn't have uMatrix-like functionality. Actually, it doesn't have even ad blocker. I can't imagine myself browsing web without all third party stuff disabled in uMatrix by default. Even my online banking has google script included after login.


I know. I am using it just for the safe sites.
You can read about uMatrix (I like it too):
https://github.com/qutebrowser/qutebrowser/issues/28
Qutebrowser has built in adblocker which works.


----------



## F1R3-R4H (Apr 28, 2019)

Snurg said:


> For my part I use Firefox 58 atm, because the timers have been adapted to make Meltdown and Spectre via Javascripts non-viable.


So they are immune to those viruses? How about the entire system?


----------



## F1R3-R4H (Apr 28, 2019)

Respecting to the browser...well, once time ago a user recommended me to use Midori.
And I must say that it is not a "OMFG look this", but if you want some easy to install, beside lightly (as I know 'cause I never monitored it, just saw that runs smooth and fast), then it's for you.
I have no known about their privacy aspect, but if you are still wondering, stay with Firefox. It is still working fine, despite the years the proyect have.


----------



## meine (May 4, 2019)

I use seamonkey as my main browser, because it works well and has no issues for me when using it. I only use the browser part of it. While ago I dumped firefox, because very often it uses too much CPU for nothing and I figured out that it only partly was caused by the websites visited. The huge CPU causes the browser to stall and makes my box noisy. Besides that firefox did some strange things as proposing an experiment with unasked advertising in the browser and I use to run away from that kind of things.

Recently I started using qutebrowser and it is a fine and responsive browser. I like the vim keybinds both for convenience and as an extra training for vim. The only backlash is the Qt-engine that also seems to draw a lot of CPU.

When in CLI, I only use lynx -- fast, no frills and it demonstrates the over use of cookies on several websites.


----------



## Spartrekus (May 4, 2019)

I prefer _*links*_ as the best tool for browsing.

It is compilable without ncurses, and it is just a single lib.


----------



## meine (May 4, 2019)

Spartrekus said:


> I prefer _*links*_ as the best tool for browsing.
> 
> It is compilable without ncurses, and it is just a single lib.


I'll give it a try, Thanks!

I just stumbled over www/elinks and it looks promising!


----------



## Spartrekus (May 4, 2019)

links -g whatever.com   : it can offer as well graphics.
It runs too on X11.

elinks is nice too, but it is much more advanced than elinks.


----------



## fernandel (May 4, 2019)

meine said:


> I use seamonkey as my main browser, because it works well and has no issues for me when using it. I only use the browser part of it. While ago I dumped firefox, because very often it uses too much CPU for nothing and I figured out that it only partly was caused by the websites visited. The huge CPU causes the browser to stall and makes my box noisy. Besides that firefox did some strange things as proposing an experiment with unasked advertising in the browser and I use to run away from that kind of things.
> 
> Recently I started using qutebrowser and it is a fine and responsive browser. I like the vim keybinds both for convenience and as an extra training for vim. The only backlash is the Qt-engine that also seems to draw a lot of CPU.
> 
> When in CLI, I only use lynx -- fast, no frills and it demonstrates the over use of cookies on several websites.


There are two engine options:


> *Configuration Options* ===> The following configuration options are available for qutebrowser-1.6.1:
> ====> Options available for the multi BACKEND: you have to choose at least one of them
> WEBKIT=on: WebKit webpage renderer support
> WEBENGINE=on: WebEngine webpage renderer support
> ===> Use 'make config' to modify these settings


But which one is worse?


----------



## Spartrekus (May 4, 2019)

drhowarddrfine:
Your attitude is awkward.
It is sad.


----------



## Spartrekus (May 4, 2019)

Would you mind let each of my posts in peace please? Sincerely, thank you for your understanding.


----------



## Deleted member 30996 (May 4, 2019)

Spartrekus said:


> drhowarddrfine:
> Your attitude is awkward.
> It is sad.



I've noticed when presented with facts or an argument you can't refute as a response to some claim you have made you resort to this type of baseless response as a last resort. Sad.

You can't refute either of his statements in response to your claim "HTML killed the web" since here we are on the web in a forum that uses HTML. Awkward.

Now you want your posts left in peace with your point the final word as truth beyond reproach? Beaten.

XHTML was pretty new when I went to w3schools to learn HTML, so that's what I learned along with CSS. My pages are plain and simple to the point of embarrassment, my code valid and easy to read as this type and my pages (sans images) load very quickly. That's the payoff to plain and simple web design and handwritten valid code. Feel free to run any of my pages on a download test for speed.

It's not the web that is slow, it's dancing baloney, ads for clicks mentality, bad web design and lack of common sense among the mindless masses to disable most of that nonsense globally by default.



Spartrekus said:


> Does is really help to find the best web browser to use something that is definitely slow i.e. html , i.e. the whole web.



This is a recent speed test using Firefox over my cable connection.






The web being "slow" a fallacy you have put forth multiple times, unless  you have dial-up and a cool retro sounding modem. Your suggestion on implementing yet another version of the internet for scientist and academic and serious stuffs based on your idea that HTML is slow and the web is dead. I don't have any complaints about my internet speed or problems setting up my browsers. I had 7 terminals open yesterday all running www/youtube_dl at  once and it was no problem at all.

Text-based browsers are fine for their purpose and if it suits your browsing needs better yet. I use Mozilla based browsers for the extensions and the overall view of the page, being interested in other peoples work.

When I teach Demonica I keep 5-6 Forge tabs open, 1 to dictionary.com and 1 to thesaurus.com as a reference to dialog with a lot of quick copy and paste work for hours on end. It would be an arduous task to use a text based browser and productivity slow to a crawl. One of those pages are her chat page and it runs on JS, so a text browser a total failure for my requirements in that respect, Unsuitable at best for most when I can look at the whole forum page at once with Firefox, at worst clunky and a hindrance to how I work using a browser.

I don't care how much people rave about text editors or despise others either. I'm much more productive with editors/leafpad when working on my sites. Nothing else matters to me but getting it done right as quickly as possible.

Just because you prefer brown pennyloafers doesn't mean they're better than my Converse Cons bball shoes, that everyone should change shoe styles for a better walking experience, or that sidewalks will be replaced by George Jetson moving walkways because someone keeps stubbing their toe walking in flipflops.



Spartrekus said:


> Maybe have Carnegie, MIT, ... a sub internet that would be dedicated to serious stuffs.



The Russians are testing out their own private internet.

Mr. President, we cannot allow a sub-internet gap!


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## abishai (May 4, 2019)

Seamonkey is marked for removal as well, so it would be a poor choose.
I started firefox tests, but suddenly all extensions was set to disabled/unsupported state. =/ What's going on with these nasty browsers...


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## Deleted member 30996 (May 5, 2019)

abishai said:


> I started firefox tests, but suddenly all extensions was set to disabled/unsupported state. =/ What's going on with these nasty browsers...



I just brought up www/firefox and every one of my extensions had been disabled and marked unsupported. I have www/firefox-esr on the other laptop I keep running and it just now disabled every extension, too. 

It's now showing an Available Updates section for extensions but the download fails.

That's the whole reason I use Mozilla based browsers and consider the extensions I use essential to my browsing experience.

I'm using Palemoon now and older versions of the extensions I need most. If it's going away, probably not without some fanfare from BSD users, Seamonkey finally falling to failure that only leaves Firefox. I never have liked Opera and Chrome not what I consider a viable alternative at this point.


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## scottro (May 5, 2019)

They let a certificate expire.  I would have thought this could be quickly fixed, but apparently not. The current workaround is set the preference xpinstall.signatures.required to false.  I don't know how much of a security risk that may be, but it will get  extensions working till the update comes out. I think the vanilla firefox has already released updates to fix it, don't know if it's reached ports and packges yet.


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## Vull (May 5, 2019)

I'm having the problem with disabled extensions you've described on firefox-esr, but no such problem occurs on firefox-66.0.2,1 which I'm running on both 11.2-RELEASE and 12.0-RELEASE.

EDIT: Ha. Disregard the above-- almost as soon as I posted this, the problem occurred-- I jinxed myself 8-D

EDIT 2: Still working okay on 11.2 though... fingers crossed...


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## Beastie (May 5, 2019)

abishai said:


> Seamonkey is marked for removal as well


Where? I can't see anything like that here. The port is still being maintained. Actually it was last updated this month.


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## fernandel (May 5, 2019)

Trihexagonal said:


> I just brought up www/firefox and every one of my extensions had been disabled and marked unsupported. I have www/firefox-esr on the other laptop I keep running and it just now disabled every extension, too.
> 
> It's now showing an Available Updates section for extensions but the download fails.
> 
> ...


about:config, then set:
xpinstall.signatures.required=false

It solved the problem.


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## trev (May 5, 2019)

Trihexagonal said:


> Seamonkey finally falling to failure that only leaves Firefox.



Huh? I'm using SeaMonkey (FreeBSD 11.2-STABLE r34387) - in fact I just recompiled it due to an update.


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## talsamon (May 5, 2019)

Mozilla has disabled all addons cause of a problem with certificates. A fix will coming soon.


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## macondo (May 6, 2019)

https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2019/05/04/update-regarding-add-ons-in-firefox/


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## abishai (May 6, 2019)

Beastie said:


> Where? I can't see anything like that here. The port is still being maintained. Actually it was last updated this month.


I've seen a commit with EXPIRATION_DATE here https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports?view=revision&revision=497995 Now it's reverted, but it's worrisome if they really want to remove gecko.mk
Not sure I understand what 'technical debt' for seamonkey is.


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## trev (May 7, 2019)

abishai said:


> I've seen a commit with EXPIRATION_DATE here https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports?view=revision&revision=497995 Now it's reverted, but it's worrisome if they really want to remove gecko.mk
> Not sure I understand what 'technical debt' for seamonkey is.



I don't think I would survive if SeaMonkey was "expired". At least we seem to have had a reprieve for the time being but it is worrying all the same.

As for technical debt, I surmise that this refers to SeaMonkey not (yet, if ever) adopting the new Firefox way (becoming Chrome?) and dumping XUL along with the removal of much of the Mozilla source and APIs. Anyway, I just donated 30 Euros  (~$A 50) to the cause at https://www.seamonkey-project.org/donate/ (you need to use the text PayPal link and not the graphic Button which fails).


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## grahamperrin@ (May 7, 2019)

trev said:


> … technical debt, …



Maybe inferred from the _standstill_ that was mentioned in February, All humors aside… ;( | SeaMonkey Project Blog



abishai said:


> … As Waterfox was removed too,



I built Waterfox 56.2.8 a few weeks ago, https://www.reddit.com/comments/9pocgm/-/ek9or90/

Now, forty minutes into a build of 56.2.9. Fingers crossed.



> am I right that there are no browsers left with XUL extensions except Palemoon? …



A first alpha of Waterfox 68 is expected. Preliminary documentation at https://github.com/MrAlex94/Waterfox/wiki with discussion at https://redd.it/bjjj1y tl;dr

some legacy extensions will require minimal modification
if I understand correctly, no legacy extension will run unmodified.
PS What you need to know about add-ons in Waterfox 68 - gHacks Tech News (discussion)


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## grahamperrin@ (May 7, 2019)

abishai said:


> … https://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports?view=revision&revision=497995 Now it's reverted, …



Re: the mention of friendliness, one might describe a couple of the lunar pilots as _excitable_. BSDs aside, for a moment: rewind a few weeks. Where a three-tweet-wide space was insufficient for La Lune to throw custard pies re: a gaffe at a new web site (published for the first time on the day of the tweet), there was no shortage of pie space elsewhere.

Rewind further, to 2018. WF founder once wrote "… I've only ever been pleasant towards any other outside projects. …" and I have never seen evidence to the contrary.

I'm not in the habit of commenting upon people's personalities – I'd like this to be my last such comment – but it's sometimes good to consider behaviours that _might_ cause something/someone to be perceived as "… unlikely to be friendly to … packagers in general).".

Peace


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## abishai (May 7, 2019)

grahamperrin said:


> Re: the mention of friendliness, one might describe a couple of the lunar pilots as _excitable_.


I believe _friendliness_ is reference to this one. But looks like it was resolved peacefully for us (= FreeBSD users). Probably, we can try to restore Waterfox in ports, this we can keep gecko.mk used. The problem is browsers are the most complex programs and keep them alive when new llvm rolled in port tree is a hard work.


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## grahamperrin@ (May 7, 2019)

Thanks! (Yeah, _that_ one was memorable …)


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