# Opera 12.00 released



## Beastie (Jun 14, 2012)

> Release date: 2012-06-14
> 
> Opera 12.00 is a recommended upgrade offering new and improved features, plus security and stability enhancements.


Opera 12.00 beta changelog
Opera 12.00 changelog


----------



## bsduser35325 (Jun 15, 2012)

Flash on this version is really bad, like it hangs up at 100% CPU usage all the time. It*'*s unwatchable for me.


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Jun 16, 2012)

I reinstalled this version of opera without GTK2; it seemed to crash way more often than previously otherwise (with several tabs open) and no longer recovered them upon restart. Still seems to not do so, but crashes less often now.


----------



## SPlissken (Jun 16, 2012)

HTML5 video seems not to work on youtube with this version


----------



## MarcoB (Jun 16, 2012)

Opera was my favorite but 12 crashes constantly, even on their own website.


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Jun 17, 2012)

Reverted back to 11.64 unfortunately... opera-devel (also version 12) I don't recall crashing so often though.


----------



## zeissoctopus (Jun 17, 2012)

My Opera 12.0 never has any crash experience. I run Opera 12.0 on my two laptops. Both are X.org Server 1.10.6. I install my Xorg 7.5.2 with 
	
	



```
WITH_NEW_XORG=yes
```
 in /etc/make.conf

One laptop is FreeBSD 9-STABLE KMS with Intel GMX4500. Another is FreeBSD 9-STABLE UMS with ATI 4200.

In my observation, Opera runs smoother in FreeBSD 9-STABLE with Intel KMS than in FreeBSD 9-STABLE with ATI UMS. I can even boost up Opera 12.0 using its experimental full hardware acceleration feature in KMS without any error.


----------



## SPlissken (Jun 17, 2012)

Flash plugin was working fine in 11.xx version. Now about:plugins shows nothing. If someone know*s* how to put it back...


----------



## SPlissken (Jun 17, 2012)

Ok , it works, just have to re-install www/opera-linuxplugins.


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Jun 19, 2012)

Just upgraded opera-devel so I could install the addons.opera.com theme "Gray Cat". (Former version crashed when attempting to activate it after install.) Just posting to point others to that theme, the best I recall ever seeing for any browser...


----------



## vermaden (Jun 21, 2012)

Type *opera:cpu* into address bar


----------



## da1 (Jun 26, 2012)

Cool.


----------



## purgatori (Jul 15, 2012)

I've had my system hang several times while using Opera 12, such that I think that Opera 12 might be the source... The main reason I don't use it all that often, though, is the same reason that I have neglected previous versions. It's a great browser, but even with my tweaks and modifications the interface just isn't as powerful when it comes to keyboard interaction as, say, Conkeror. I know that's not what they're going for, so it's not a fault of the browser per se, it's just something that I struggle to get past even though the performance and web standards support is a lot better than the aforementioned Conkeror and its ancient (at least under FreeBSD) version of XULrunner.


----------



## graudeejs (Jul 15, 2012)

purgatori said:
			
		

> It's a great browser, but even with my tweaks and modifications the interface just isn't as powerful when it comes to keyboard interaction as, say, Conkeror



Wow, that's an interesting statement.
I don't know any other bowser where you can configure key bindings as much as with opera.
What exactly you can't configure?

P.S.
Have you seen this?
http://my.opera.com/Blazeix/blog/vimperator-for-opera


----------



## purgatori (Jul 15, 2012)

graudeejs said:
			
		

> Wow, that's an interesting statement.
> I don't know any other bowser where you can configure key bindings as much as with opera.
> What exactly you can't configure?
> 
> ...



I sure have  I've been an Opera user on-and-off for many years, and for most of those years I used Blazeix's code to provide Vimperator-like behavior for Opera; I even incorporated some of his code (specifically, the JS for hinting) into my own code for Emacs/Conkeror-like behavior.

The problem (and again, this is _fault_ or flaw in Opera), as Blazeix himself points out, is not so much that you can't rebind keys in Opera, it's that Opera is not modal (important for Vim), nor does it have anything that resembles a modeline or echo area (very important for Emacs). All you have, in fact, is a URL bar.

The limitations of the Opera interface become immediately apparent as soon as you consider something as simple as command/URL completion. Opera has auto-completion for URLs and site names stored in history/bookmarks, but when you are presented with several matches for a particular term, you cannot <TAB> complete to the desired match; instead, you have to resort to the rather cumbersome (for Emacs and Vi users, at least) use of the up and down arrows.

Speaking of completion, hinting seems to be limited to numbers. For instance, if you were on IMDB and you hit "f" to invoke hint numbers, you could, under Vimperator or Conkeror, type imdb to narrow the available selections to only links containing the letters "imdb", or you could narrow it down even further if you were only looking for a link to IMDB Pro by typing "pro." In Opera, however, you must type the corresponding number code from the total list of links -- though this could be a limitation of Blazeix's code, I suppose... I'm certainly no expert when it comes to Javascript.

Another limitation -- and this is a big one -- is that Opera does not provide either Vi- or Emacs-like editing for text fields. For instance, in Emacs M-b = backward-word ("Move backward until encountering the beginning of a word"), whereas in Opera there is no corresponding function that you could even bind a key sequence to. This wouldn't necessarily be a big deal, except that I'm also not aware of there being a way that one might call or embed an external editor for text fields.

I could go on... and on, but I think these examples amply illustrate what I'm trying to get at.

Again, though, I'm not asserting that Opera is a lousy browser because of these things, just that I personally find its interface somewhat/frustrating as someone who is a heavy user of Emacs (and before that, Vim). Near as I can tell, Opera does as good a job as any other web-browser developer in delivering an intuitive, relatively easy-to-use GUI interface, and also includes a bevy of handy keyboard shortcuts for more advanced users. Opera isn't aimed at the sorts of users who are into Conkeror, Vimperator, Uzbl, etc. so I'm not about to fault them on the comparison.


----------



## jrm@ (Jul 15, 2012)

My experience has been similar to @purgatori.  Opera has a nice engine, and it's hands down faster than Firefox and uses way less resources, but I (we) are just not the target user.  I tried to make it work, but it was like trying to fit the square into the circular hole.

www/uzbl is quite usable now, although it takes a bit of work messing with the configuration files and the javascript/python/shell scripts.  It's at least as snappy as Opera on my ten-year-old laptop and it's on the right track for what I'm looking for: a completely keyboard driven browser with customizable bindings and no bloat.  The downside is that it's just not quite polished and the pace of development doesn't seem as fast as in the past.  

For now I usually settle with Firefox/pentadactyl, but spending time in uzbl reminds me how bloated and slow it feels.

I'm looking forward to the day when Xwidgets is ready in Emacs, then browsers like ezbl will exist.  With one Emacs frame you can have buffers with terminal sessions, browsers, irc, image viewers, etc. all with a consistent interface and tight integration.


----------



## purgatori (Jul 15, 2012)

jrm said:
			
		

> My experience has been similar to @purgatori.  Opera has a nice engine, and it's hands down faster than Firefox and uses way less resources, but I (we) are just not the target user.  I tried to make it work, but it was like trying to fit the square into the circular hole.
> 
> www/uzbl is quite usable now, although it takes a bit of work messing with the configuration files and the javascript/python/shell scripts.  It's at least as snappy as Opera on my ten-year-old laptop and it's on the right track for what I'm looking for: a completely keyboard driven browser with customizable bindings and no bloat.  The downside is that it's just not quite polished and the pace of development doesn't seem as fast as in the past.
> 
> ...



Thank you for doing a much better job of summing it up than I was able to.

In my experience, as someone running on pretty dated hardware, nothing (including Uzbl) quite equals Opera for speed and resource-friendliness -- excepting of course the non-graphical browsers, or the minimally graphical browsers like links or dillo2. Uzbl fared a lot better for me, though, than did the Mozilla-based browsers (including my beloved Conkeror), and I had a lot of fun hacking it... at least until I tired of new versions messing with old configs/conventions, and my laziness called for something that more-or-less "just worked."

Ezbl is something that I am very excited about, and it's probably about the only thing that I could imagine might replace Conkeror for me. emacs-w3m is fine, and I use it a lot, but to have something within Emacs that could obviate the need for an external browser altogether would be fantastic.


----------



## graudeejs (Jul 15, 2012)

I see


----------



## SR_Ind (Jul 15, 2012)

Why don't emacs lovers put together a toolkit and a desktop environment of their own?


----------



## wblock@ (Jul 15, 2012)

They did, it's called emacs.


----------



## purgatori (Jul 16, 2012)

wblock@ said:
			
		

> They did, it's called emacs.



Exactly what I was going to say ^^


----------



## SR_Ind (Jul 16, 2012)

wblock@ said:
			
		

> They did, it's called emacs.


Then they shouldn't complain about Opera or Firefox (or <_your favourite desktop app_>) doing this and doing that or not doing this and not doing that. 

A desktop environment should be self contained one.


----------



## ChalkBored (Jul 16, 2012)

SR_Ind said:
			
		

> Then they shouldn't complain about Opera or Firefox (or <_your favourite desktop app_>) doing this and doing that or not doing this and not doing that.
> 
> A desktop environment should be self contained one.



That means the only desktop environments are KDE and Gnome. And nobody would be using Opera or Firefox anyway since they've already got a web browser.


----------



## SR_Ind (Jul 16, 2012)

ChalkBored said:
			
		

> That means the only desktop environments are KDE and Gnome. And nobody would be using Opera or Firefox anyway since they've already got a web browser.


Some gents above claimed that Emacs is a desktop environment by itself. 

For example, as opposed to Emacs lovers here, XFCE user's don't complain about Gnome, leave aside KDE.

Another thing is Emacs lovers brag about it being an IDE as well, so I take it they are accomplished to average programmers. Are they up to the task to put things together for themselves? 
I have a desktop environment of sorts hacked together with Qt apps, it is self contained with dependence limited to QtCore, QtGui and QMake. This required lots of programming hours, but the result is very satisfying. Why complain about something you don't pay for? I'll release my desktop apps very soon...working on ports. This is how open source works.

And yeah, keeping with this thread...I've rolled back to Opera 11.64, but a very satisfied Opera user.


----------



## purgatori (Jul 16, 2012)

SR_Ind said:
			
		

> Some gents above claimed that Emacs is a desktop environment by itself.
> 
> For example, as opposed to Emacs lovers here, XFCE user's don't complain about Gnome, leave aside KDE.
> 
> ...



You seem to have a bone to pick with "Emacs lovers" for some reason that I won't speculate upon. Just a couple of things for your edification, though:

1. The "Emacs lovers" weren't "complaining" about Opera in this thread. I went out of my way to make it clear that I think Opera is a great browser, and I pointed out, multiple times, that I wasn't criticizing Opera: I was merely explaining why, despite it being a great browser, I don't use it. How is that "complaining"?

2. It does not follow that because Emacs users "brag" about Emacs being an IDE (do they? wouldn't it be more a statement of fact?), everyone who uses Emacs is an "accomplished to average programmer." Emacs is is an IDE, but that is not all it is. I can tell you right now, that if you're able to hack QTCore, etc. you're a more "accomplished" programmer than I; I am a novice, at best.


----------



## wblock@ (Jul 16, 2012)

SR_Ind said:
			
		

> Some gents above claimed that Emacs is a desktop environment by itself.



It was a joke, but any sufficiently advanced editor can become an IDE, or a shell, or a "desktop environment".

I've tried Opera a few times, and it was nice but didn't meet my needs.  That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it, just that people are different.


----------



## jrm@ (Jul 16, 2012)

I appreciate it and find it helpful when others describe how they work.  I often learn a lot, so I shared my experience.  Based on how I work it's not my top choice for the reasons that have been mentioned.  If Opera's rendering engine, presto, was available on it's own like webkit, I'd love to use it with a vim/emacs/pentadactyl-like hybrid interface.

Emacs follows the Unix philosophy in that it does one thing well, interprets Emacs Lisp.

```
% cd emacs-24.1/src
% mkdir srcs
% for i in **/*.[c|h]; do cp $i ./srcs; done
% du -h srcs
9.9M

% cd vim73/src/
% mkdir srcs
% for i in **/*.[c|h]; do cp $i ./srcs; done
% du -h srcs
9.6M
```

Here's some bloat.

```
% cd emacs-24.1/lisp
% mkdir lisp
% for i in **/*.elc; do cp $i ./lisp; done
% cd lisp
% du -h
38M
```
Much of this lisp doesn't need to be packaged with emacs (e.g. cedet, calendar, gnus, erc) (especially with the new packaging system) just like Opera doesn't need to come packaged with a bittorent client, irc client, mail client, web server,...


----------



## ChalkBored (Jul 17, 2012)

SR_Ind said:
			
		

> For example, as opposed to Emacs lovers here, XFCE user's don't complain about Gnome, leave aside KDE.


Sure they do, it usually starts out as "I moved to XFCE because I hate the way (Gnome|KDE) does..."
Or lately, "Because of the stupid changes Gnome made..."



> Another thing is Emacs lovers brag about it being an IDE as well, so I take it they are accomplished to average programmers. Are they up to the task to put things together for themselves?
> I have a desktop environment of sorts hacked together with Qt apps, it is self contained with dependence limited to QtCore, QtGui and QMake. This required lots of programming hours, but the result is very satisfying.


Explaining why you use Opera instead of porting Firefox to QT would sound like complaining about Firefox.



> Why complain about something you don't pay for? I'll release my desktop apps very soon...working on ports. This is how open source works.


When you get a bunch of compliments after releasing it, you'll have to wonder if they actually meant it, or were just being polite.


----------



## kpedersen (Jul 17, 2012)

SR_Ind said:
			
		

> Why complain about something you don't pay for?



I am not a fan of this phrase.

Just because something is free doesn't mean it can suddenly do completely insane things. Sometimes when free stuff exists, it prevents a superior (perhaps commercial) solution from being developed due to potential competition. So when the original free software becomes unusable, I am now left with nothing.

I.e When Xfce goes the same way as KDE4, Gnome3 then many desktop users will effectively be without a light professional full desktop environment. Sure you may mention it is open-source, but there is no way in hell a single person can maintain the Gnome desktop. It really might as well be closed source.

Same with Firefox, it is too complex to compile without the (fantastic) ports system so suddenly the closed source Opera doesn't seem so bad.


----------



## izotov (Jul 17, 2012)

I have been using Opera for 10+ years. I might be committed to it but I have not noticed any problems with 12.00. (;


----------



## SR_Ind (Jul 17, 2012)

ChalkBored said:
			
		

> Explaining why you use Opera instead of porting Firefox to QT would sound like complaining about Firefox.



First of all a Firefox port to Qt exists for one of the Nokia's platform (I'm not not sure which one, but probably for Maemo). So, technically if I wish I need to get that port built on FreeBSD. But that use case doesn't applies for me.

For two reasons.

One, QWebkit exists with a basic browser example right out of Qt installation. I have a tweaked version of this. It far more easier for me (or any Qt developer) to enhance that QBrowser demo than to waste time after a Firefox Qt port (whose fate is uncertain after Nokia's platform flip).

Two, my aim is to run a QtCore+ QtGui based desktop environment...lean and light. QWebkit fails here miserably here with dependencies on dozen other Qt components and numerous external libraries. At the end of the day it does not deliver. 

Opera seems to run perfectly over whatever graphic libraries were installed as QtCore + QtGui dependencies. So, that's already much leaner than QWebkit.

Until QWebkit improves or provides an option for leaner version (why do they have the massive Phonon and GStreamer dependency when video or Flash does not work) Opera fits my needs perfectly.


----------



## graudeejs (Jul 17, 2012)

SR_Ind said:
			
		

> Until QWebkit improves or provides an option for leaner version (why do they have the massive Phonon and GStreamer dependency when video or Flash does not work)



html5?


----------



## SR_Ind (Jul 17, 2012)

graudeejs said:
			
		

> html5?


You just need to launch the QWebkit browser demo built in FreeBSD and navigate to http://html5test.com/ to see the reason.

Phonon is broken and to make it worse GStreamer as the backend is equally hopeless case.


----------



## SR_Ind (Jul 17, 2012)

kpedersen said:
			
		

> I am not a fan of this phrase.


Nor am I. 

But I've become used to  "RTFM" or "code yourself" greetings ... signature tunes of the FOSS world.  



			
				kpedersen said:
			
		

> Just because something is free doesn't mean it can suddenly do completely insane things. Sometimes when free stuff exists, it prevents a superior (perhaps commercial) solution from being developed due to potential competition. So when the original free software becomes unusable, I am now left with nothing.


Very true, agreed. To me it looks like a lack of direction in FOSS projects.



			
				kpedersen said:
			
		

> I.e When Xfce goes the same way as KDE4, Gnome3 then many desktop users will effectively be without a light professional full desktop environment. Sure you may mention it is open-source, but there is no way in hell a single person can maintain the Gnome desktop. It really might as well be closed source.


Now please go back to my issue with the Emacs users...their request for a familiar environment inside other applications. Please reflect. KDE4 and Gnome3 are at this stage because they tried to incorporate wishlist of every audience group across the board without any thoughts towards suitability of these additions.



			
				kpedersen said:
			
		

> Same with Firefox, it is too complex to compile without the (fantastic) ports system so suddenly the closed source Opera doesn't seem so bad.


That too with the benefit of built in Mail and Torrent clients inside Opera.


----------



## purgatori (Jul 17, 2012)

> Now please go back to my issue with the Emacs users...their request for a familiar environment inside other applications. Please reflect. KDE4 and Gnome3 are at this stage because they tried to incorporate wishlist of every audience group across the board without any thoughts towards suitability of these additions.



Yes, let's go back to your issue with Emacs users. Why do you have one? Have you had some bad experiences, where you were like, beaten up by a gang of malicious Emacs users prowling the streets? And how many times does the fact that none of the "Emacs lovers" in this thread were actually "complaining" about Opera. I would also love for you to provide one quote where someone is making a "request" for a familiar environment (namely Emacs) inside Opera.

To me, it seems like you see the word "Emacs" and then substitute whatever is in your head for the rest of the post. It's not even straw-maning with you, it's plain making stuff up.


----------



## Beastie (Aug 2, 2012)

*Opera 12.01 released*

Opera 12.01 security and stability release
Opera 12.01 changelog


----------



## Carpetsmoker (Nov 8, 2012)

Many pages often don't load properly since Opera 12.10. I've noticed this problem on two different machines (both running FreeBSD).

Sometimes the page doesn't load, sometimes CSS doesn't load, and a few times I've seen the default virtual host pop up on one of my own servers even though it shouldn't (as if the Host header wasn't sent or not sent properly?)

This sucks, because Opera 12.0x also has a number of serious problems (which are solved).
Not having any feedback on my Opera bug reports sucks even more :-(


----------



## roddierod (Nov 8, 2012)

I had been an Opera user since the 5.x when you could only running it under Linux emulation. Lately it seems to have degraded more and more, I think starting around 11.x releases, so much so that over the last few months I've switch to using www/xombrero.  The only thing that I really missing from Opera is the mouse gestures.

I've also found that setting the browser string in xombrero to that of and iPad seems to circumvent the "problem" of not having flash support.  I was going to try that with Opera, but it looks as if you can no longer set the browser string in the newer versions, or if you can I can't seem to find it.


----------



## graudeejs (Nov 8, 2012)

roddierod said:
			
		

> I've also found that setting the browser string in xombrero to that of and iPad seems to circumvent the "problem" of not having flash support.  I was going to try that with Opera, but it looks as if you can no longer set the browser string in the newer versions, or if you can I can't seem to find it.



Type *opera:config* in address bar, filter *custom user-agent*, fill-in field and save. You're Done


----------



## roddierod (Nov 8, 2012)

Ah...I search for everything but user-agent :r

Trying it out now, seem to have taken.


----------



## Carpetsmoker (Nov 8, 2012)

12.11 preview released ... doesn't fix the issue. code.google.com even told me I sent a 'malformed http request' 

This is truly broken & unacceptable. xombrero is worth checking out, but at this point even Firefox is a better option, especially since the new firefox debug tools seem acceptable.


----------



## vermaden (Nov 8, 2012)

roddierod said:
			
		

> I had been an Opera user since the 5.x when you could only running it under Linux emulation. Lately it seems to have degraded more and more, I think starting around 11.x releases, so much so that over the last few months I've switch to using www/xombrero.  *The only thing that I really missing from Opera is the mouse gestures.*



Try www/midori which has the same mouse gestures as Opera (at least these basic ones).


----------



## Carpetsmoker (Nov 8, 2012)

vermaden said:
			
		

> Try www/midori which has the same mouse gestures as Opera (at least these basic ones).



... And lacks just about any other feature ...


----------



## Beastie (Nov 8, 2012)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> code.google.com even told me I sent a 'malformed http request'


Do you get this on the home page or what? Does it return an error on the 12.10 release too? Because it's working fine here on 12.10. Have you tried clearing your cache and/or using a profile with "factory" settings (*opera -pd testprofile*)?

Apart from a few (rather unimportant and tolerable) glitches, every website I use regularly works perfectly fine.


----------



## Carpetsmoker (Nov 8, 2012)

Yes. I tried using a new profile directory. The problem isn't consistent, but Wikipedia almost never seems to work on the first try.

This isn't the only problem, just the latest straw... I'm not the only one by the way, on the Opera forums there are more people (incl. people using Opera on Windows).


----------



## Carpetsmoker (Nov 8, 2012)

roddierod said:
			
		

> I had been an Opera user since the 5.x when you could only running it under Linux emulation. Lately it seems to have degraded more and more, I think starting around 11.x releases, so much so that over the last few months I've switch to using www/xombrero.  The only thing that I really missing from Opera is the mouse gestures.




So far, it seems I can give xembrero a serious go.

One large problem I've encounted is the fonts, they're Ugly with a very large U:
http://arp242.net/tmp/2012-11-08-224518_1680x1050_scrot.png

I can't find any option to control this ...  I never configured any of my Opera fonts, they `just work'â„¢


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Nov 8, 2012)

Updated today or yesterday from 11.6x to 12.10... that problematic page loads fine; no problems in any page I am used to loading into the address bar...  (although *one* site is too slow to be usable, works fine in seamonkey...)  (I've Cups/Video set; Kde4/Gtk2 unset..., at least according to the options  file.


----------



## ChalkBored (Nov 9, 2012)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> One large problem I've encounted is the fonts, they're Ugly with a very large U:



Xombrero's config files only have settings for UI fonts. The page rendering is probably done with whatever configuration Webkit uses, which Opera seems to handle on it's own.

Try putting this in ~/.fonts.conf (and make sure x11-fonts/fontconfig is installed)

```
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<fontconfig>
  <match target="font">
    <edit mode="assign" name="antialias"><bool>true</bool></edit>
    <edit name="autohint" mode="assign"><bool>false</bool></edit>
    <edit name="hinting" mode="assign"><bool>true</bool></edit>
    <edit name="hintstyle" mode="assign"><int>1</int></edit>
    <edit name="rgba" mode="assign"><const>bgr</const></edit>
  </match>
</fontconfig>
```

It should at least change how the fonts look.
You'll probably have to play with the configuration more to get them to look really good.


----------



## vermaden (Nov 9, 2012)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> ... And lacks just about any other feature ...



What features does xombrero offer that are so missed in midori? I have tried xxxterm/xombrero several times, but haven't found anything special.


----------



## roddierod (Nov 9, 2012)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> So far, it seems I can give xembrero a serious go.
> 
> One large problem I've encounted is the fonts, they're Ugly with a very large U:
> http://arp242.net/tmp/2012-11-08-224518_1680x1050_scrot.png
> ...



For sites who's fonts render ugly, I use a the USER CSS settings activated by pressing S.

In .xombrero.conf set the userstyle to point to the style sheet you'd like.


----------



## roddierod (Nov 9, 2012)

vermaden said:
			
		

> What features does xombrero offer that are so missed in midori? I have tried xxxterm/xombrero several times, but haven't found anything special.



I've tried midori in the past and it didn't work with too many sites that I needed it to, such as ebay and my webmail interface to work.  Xombrero has worked with everything I've needed it too. Even youtube, once I set the user agent to iPad. Xombrero seems faster to me.

It takes a little getting used to after using Opera for so long, because it doesn't have a lot of the little things like a password manager.  But I haven't found myself running back to Opera.  I still use Opera on Windows at work though, Xombrero on windows is too buggy.


----------



## Beastie (Nov 9, 2012)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> Yes. I tried using a new profile directory. The problem isn't consistent, but Wikipedia almost never seems to work on the first try. [...] I'm not the only one by the way, on the Opera forums there are more people (incl. people using Opera on Windows).


This is really surprising. I use Opera at work for hours a day on Windows 7 and for a few hours at home on FreeBSD and have no problem whatsoever apart from the glitches I've mentioned in my previous post. And I browse Wikipedia almost everyday.

Browsing with Opera is as flawless here as browsing with Firefox or Chrome.


----------



## Carpetsmoker (Nov 15, 2012)

I've been using Xombrero for the past few days, and I've found it to be pretty unstable. I've had at least 5 crashes today, the last one didn't even save my session so all my open tabs are now gone 
There are other things that I can't seem to get to work properly ... It looked like a promising project, but as development doesn't seem to be racing forward it's a bit of a dead end ... :-(

So the only option left is ... Firefox? meh ...



			
				Beastie said:
			
		

> This is really surprising. I use Opera at work for hours a day on Windows 7 and for a few hours at home on FreeBSD and have no problem whatsoever apart from the glitches I've mentioned in my previous post. And I browse Wikipedia almost everyday.
> 
> Browsing with Opera is as flawless here as browsing with Firefox or Chrome.



It seems to happen (way) more often at my home PC than at my work PC, but it happens at both.


----------



## roddierod (Nov 15, 2012)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> I've been using Xombrero for the past few days, and I've found it to be pretty unstable. I've had at least 5 crashes today, the last one didn't even save my session so all my open tabs are now gone



What kind of sites?  I'm just wondering because I've not had any problems with crashes and it been close to 3 or 4 months that I've been using it.


----------



## graudeejs (Nov 15, 2012)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> I've been using Xombrero for the past few days, and I've found it to be pretty unstable. I've had at least 5 crashes today, the last one didn't even save my session so all my open tabs are now gone
> There are other things that I can't seem to get to work properly ... It looked like a promising project, but as development doesn't seem to be racing forward it's a bit of a dead end ... :-(
> 
> So the only option left is ... Firefox? meh ...
> ...



I think you should check you RAM. (It really sounds like that)


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Nov 15, 2012)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> Many pages often don't load properly since Opera 12.10. I've noticed this problem on two different machines (both running FreeBSD).


Can you give a link to these pages? I see Wikipedia is one?

I have contacts at Opera who I can ask about the problem. Do you think it's a FreeBSD only one?


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Nov 15, 2012)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> So the only option left is ... Firefox? meh ...


The latest Firefox is really fast. I was surprised when I played with it on a decent machine a few days ago. (I have no decent machines anymore.) But I totally understand the Opera love.


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Nov 16, 2012)

Just reiterating, here...
No problems with the latest opera at all. Have to reload some pages though to show images, which are off by default, and toggling images on is not possible any longer before typing the url (for some reason).  *One* site is unbearably slow and I'm forced to use seamonkey (never seems to finish loading visibly), but it never worked well.


----------



## Carpetsmoker (Nov 16, 2012)

roddierod said:
			
		

> What kind of sites?  I'm just wondering because I've not had any problems with crashes and it been close to 3 or 4 months that I've been using it.



A bunch of different sites, I don't have an exact list. The musicpd wiki seems to freeze xombrero consistently. Here's the bug report I made.

I think the problem is webkit-gtk -- I used Midori this morning, and so far it's crashed a few times already 



			
				graudeejs said:
			
		

> I think you should check you RAM. (It really sounds like that)



All problems encountered are encountered on both my FreeBSD desktop at home & at work, while I didn't run memtest, I think we can assume the hardware is fine.



			
				drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> Can you give a link to these pages? I see Wikipedia is one?
> 
> I have contacts at Opera who I can ask about the problem. Do you think it's a FreeBSD only one?



I created a bug report, but as with all bugreports I send to Opera the feedback is zilch.
If you look at the forums and/or the comment box on the release announcement, then I see quite a few people with problems similar to mine. Some on Windows.



			
				drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> The latest Firefox is really fast. I was surprised when I played with it on a decent machine a few days ago. (I have no decent machines anymore.) But I totally understand the Opera love.



The problem isn't speed, the problem is the lack of ... well, pretty much anything like proper keyboard navigation, proper search,  decent debugger, and I can go on and on ...
Sure, I can install 20 extensions to `solve' this, but extensions are Javascript, which are zillion times slower than `native' features, and then Firefox does become slow.


----------



## bsduser35325 (Nov 16, 2012)

One of the reasons I keep using Opera is because of the built in keyboard navigation.


----------



## tingo (Nov 16, 2012)

bsduser35325 said:
			
		

> One of the reasons I keep using Opera is because of the built in keyboard navigation.



Yes, this is a favorite thing of mine.


----------



## Beastie (Nov 20, 2012)

Opera 12.11 has been released.


----------



## Toast (Nov 22, 2012)

Anyone else having trouble with copy and pasting in Opera 12.10 / 12.11? :\


----------



## graudeejs (Nov 22, 2012)

Yup, it doesn't work in 12.11.
Works fine in 12.10.


----------



## Toast (Nov 24, 2012)

graudeejs said:
			
		

> Yup, it doesn't work in 12.11.
> Works fine in 12.10.



Whats weird is that it works if you create a new profile,`# opera -pd /tmp/opera`but stops working if you restart Opera.


----------



## Beastie (Nov 24, 2012)

If you find a reproducible bug you should report it.

As for me, it's working fine. I can copy/paste between Opera and any other application as well as within Opera itself.


----------



## Toast (Nov 25, 2012)

Beastie said:
			
		

> If you find a reproducible bug you should report it.
> 
> As for me, it's working fine. I can copy/paste between Opera and any other application as well as within Opera itself.


I did twice. One for 12.10 and 12.11.

I'm using FreeBSD 9.1-RC3 with everything off in Opera.

```
uname -a
FreeBSD Toast 9.1-RC3 FreeBSD 9.1-RC3 #3: Sun Nov  4 04:13:31 PST 2012     root@Toast:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/CUSTOM  i386
```


----------



## sossego (Nov 25, 2012)

I've an old PocketPC on which I'm using Opera mobile. Considering the limited memory of the device, the browser is quite good.


----------



## purgatori (Nov 26, 2012)

Toast said:
			
		

> Anyone else having trouble with copy and pasting in Opera 12.10 / 12.11? :\



For me, Opera 12.10 + 12.11 were both crashing when I attempted to paste an address (or, presumably, any other kind of string) into the URL bar. Switching from the GTK toolkit to the X11 toolkit resolved that crash, but I was still encountering crashes on certain sites, such as Xbox.com. I put it down to misconfiguration my part, but perhaps not.

Oh, and I also run into a bug where images simply refused to load on certain sites...


----------



## dclau (Nov 26, 2012)

Copy/paste working fine here.
	
	



```
about:opera
Opera/9.80 (X11; FreeBSD 9.1-PRERELEASE i386) Presto/2.12.388 Version/12.10
```


```
uname -a
FreeBSD raptor.signal11.ro 9.1-PRERELEASE FreeBSD 9.1-PRERELEASE #0: Sat Nov  3 23:41:31 EET 2012     dclau@raptor.signal11.ro:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/RAPTOR  i386
```
However, Opera crashes every time I attempt to upload an image via http (tinypic, imageshack etc). The only commandline switch I use is _-nomail_. I will wait for 12.12 release, til then I can live with this version.


----------



## Toast (Nov 26, 2012)

Chaning the following lines in ~/.opera/operaprefs.ini fixes copy and paste for me. (12.10) :e

```
Max Global History Lines=0 --> Max Global History Lines=1000
Visited Pages=0            --> Visited Pages=1
```


----------



## cpm@ (Nov 27, 2012)

www/opera has been updated to version 12.11.


----------



## Toast (Nov 27, 2012)

Toast said:
			
		

> Chaning the following lines in ~/.opera/operaprefs.ini fixes copy and paste for me. (12.10) :e



Also fixes 12.11.


----------



## Beastie (Dec 18, 2012)

Opera 12.12 has just been released.

http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/unified/1212/


----------



## Beastie (Jan 30, 2013)

Opera 12.13 has been released.

http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/unified/1213/

----

Some people reported crashes on Opera when copy/pasting. The crashes only happended under FreeBSD 9.x it seems. And apparently it has been fixed now. I spoke too soon; the bug is still there  Will try Toast's fix.


----------



## Carpetsmoker (Feb 13, 2013)

http://my.opera.com/ODIN/blog/300-million-users-and-move-to-webkit



> we're announcing that for all new products Opera will use WebKit as its rendering engine and V8 as its JavaScript engine.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Of course, a browser is much more than just a renderer and a JS engine, so this is primarily an "under the hood" change.



*Shock*


----------



## vermaden (Feb 13, 2013)

@Carpetsmoker

Opera has more and more render issues, more and more sites does not work properly on Presto with newer releases.

This seems to be the best way for Opera, in short words, 'adapt or die'.

Of course it leads to the IE6 times when one rendering engine had big market share and everyone wrote pages with IE6 in mind.

Webkit is better in that case as its open source and standards compliant.

Maybe we should drop other engines altogether and use webkit only? 



... so we now wait for Opera announce that Opera is open source on BSD license ;p


----------



## Carpetsmoker (Feb 13, 2013)

Well, somehow I have my doubts that webkit-Opera will work the same as Opera. There are many small (but important) things that Opera gets right and most other browsers don't... We'll see ...

Also, I like Dragonfly. Webkit means the Webkit inspector (UI by Google, so it's completely unusable).
The Firefox built-in debug tools are sort of ok, but limited. Firebug gets so many basic UI stuff wrong it's laughable.


----------



## roddierod (Feb 13, 2013)

It's been my experience with the sites I use, that I have more problem with webkit browsers.  The only good I can really see coming from this is if Presto becomes open source. Otherwise, this is second on my list of tragic days in computer. Number one being the day Digital was bought by Compaq.


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Feb 13, 2013)

I about fell on the floor when I read this. I regularly converse with Opera developers and hadn't a clue they were doing this. 

Opera's market share has been dropping considerably lately, which is sad, because they were really innovative, but it's hard for a small company to keep up with webkit which has Google and Apple behind it. 

I fear for Mozilla because now they are the smallest major browser company and if they were to lose their funding, particularly from Google, we'd be down to just IE and webkit, not considering the various even smaller browsers. And IE can barely qualify for the category of "browser"  .

Of course, I'm ignoring the fact that webkit is the rendering engine and not the browser itself.


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Feb 13, 2013)

roddierod said:
			
		

> It's been my experience with the sites I use, that I have more problem with webkit browsers.


Any sites that don't work in webkit are the fault of the developers of those web sites and not webkit.


> Otherwise, this is second on my list of tragic days in computer. Number one being the day Digital was bought by Compaq.



Agree!


----------



## fonz (Feb 13, 2013)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> http://my.opera.com/ODIN/blog/300-million-users-and-move-to-webkit


I sincerely hope that's a joke. If not, it's bye bye Opera for me.


----------



## YZMSQ (Feb 13, 2013)

fonz said:
			
		

> I sincerely hope that's a joke. If not, it's bye bye Opera for me.


So you don't like webkit?:e


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Feb 13, 2013)

Two good posts.
From John Resig, creator of jQuery
From Christian Heilmann of Mozilla.


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Feb 13, 2013)

I posted in the opera forums (rejoining today) about the change.  Anyone know if a parallel version (webkit OR presto) would be available, instead of what is now planned, (...could be a possibility)?


----------



## fonz (Feb 13, 2013)

jb_fvwm2 said:
			
		

> Anyone know if a parallel version (webkit OR presto) would be available, instead of what is now planned, (...could be a possibility)?


Can't say for sure, but I think that's unlikely. Opera Software are dropping Presto because they claim not to have sufficient resources to keep developing it. That means that a third party (perhaps the Open Source community) would have to take over Presto development, but Presto is proprietary software and Opera Software have shown no signs of even considering releasing Presto with some kind of public license. I'd be glad if they did, but I'm afraid they won't.


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Feb 13, 2013)

The only browser I am able to find here, using webkit, (without a real thorough search) is midori.  It segfaults rather than loads *Any* page... even after modifying its preferences.
............
Opera's failure to *continually* segfault (sometimes after reinstalling it per the same  .tbz ) is one of the minor reasons it is the preferred browser here... and one of the reasons I continually have recommended FreeBSD as an alternative to Linux.
............
Please take that section above as a compliment to the browser and operating system, not as anything to the contrary!
............


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Feb 13, 2013)

Found another one. (uzbl-tabbed).  It starts to load any page and silently exits...


----------



## vermaden (Feb 13, 2013)

jb_fvwm2 said:
			
		

> The only browser I am able to find here, using webkit, (without a real thorough search) is midori.  It segfaults rather than loads *Any* page... even after modifying its preferences.



Interesting ... I am using Midori since several months with latest version from ports and I would say that it is more stable then Opera (because of copy-paste issues).

Maybe You compiled it with some exotic GCC flags? (I use the defaults).


----------



## roddierod (Feb 14, 2013)

jb_fvwm2 said:
			
		

> Found another one. (uzbl-tabbed).  It starts to load any page and silently exits...



www/xombrero which I've actually been using quite a lot recently.


----------



## Beastie (Feb 14, 2013)

jb_fvwm2 said:
			
		

> The only browser I am able to find here, using webkit, (without a real thorough search) is midori.


Have you tried Vimprobable? It's not in the ports, but it's so minimalist you can easily build it without any trouble.


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Feb 14, 2013)

xombrero  also segfaults.  That's three out of three unusuable because of some obsolete library linked to webkit, or ncurses-devel rather than the usual one, or...  Not interested in fixing those as long as something lightweight that WONT segfault (presto-opera) is at the ready...

And a chance /tmp (nosuid) (SUJ) is crashing the uzbl sockets... instead of the above cause(s).


----------



## wblock@ (Feb 14, 2013)

Paging Sir William of Ockham, Sir William to the white courtesy phone.

Fact: These programs that thousands of other people run without problems all segfault on my system.

Conclusion 1: There must be something wrong with these programs.
Conclusion 2: There must be something wrong with my system.

Which is more likely?


----------



## fonz (Feb 14, 2013)

jb_fvwm2 said:
			
		

> as long as something lightweight that WONT segfault (presto-opera) is at the ready...[/color]


But the question is how long that's going to last (if this Opera-WebKit thing is not an elaborate prank, which I'm still half expecting).


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Feb 14, 2013)

fonz said:
			
		

> (if this Opera-WebKit thing is not an elaborate prank, which I'm still half expecting).



It's not a prank.

We're expecting Opera to completely switch over in 6-9 months as a guess.


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Feb 15, 2013)

My apologies. My initial TODO ( to maybe fix the webkit segfault )  is replace ncurses-devel with ncurses and rebuild the two webkit on the other build machine.  But I only schedule that way less often than visiting these threads...


----------



## vermaden (Feb 15, 2013)

If You seek for another small/light Webkit browser, then there is also QT4 based ARORA: http://code.google.com/p/arora/


----------



## Beastie (Feb 15, 2013)

drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> We're expecting Opera to completely switch over in 6-9 months as a guess.


Aw that's very long! I can't wait to test it. But surely there will be many RCs to test much earlier.

I hope they don't intend to discontinue the native FreeBSD version! :\


Regarding the decision, I'm not really shocked. There has been "rumors" on the blogs and forums for quite some time about Presto being "dead".

WebKit doesn't bother me as I already use Vimprobable from time to time. I just hope it will not be too heavy (perhaps V8 is better than JavaScriptCore but I have some doubts) and will not cause too many changes for the end-user in their day-to-day browsing.

Some comments on the Opera blogs remind me of this. Is it possible they want to make Opera more "compatible" then sell Opera Software ASA to a bigger company... like Google for example hmm?!


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Feb 15, 2013)

Beastie said:
			
		

> Is it possible they want to make Opera more "compatible" then sell Opera Software ASA to a bigger company... like Google for example hmm?!


Don't know if Opera is for sale but I do know Opera felt it was necessary to join with the others in a common cause than try to compete with Chrome and iOS. That might be the only real reason or the front face of it.


----------



## cpm@ (Feb 16, 2013)

Worth to read...

[1] Bruce Lawson, Opera and WebKit: a personal perspective.
[2] Recent interview with Bruce Lawson on Operaâ€™s Move to WebKit.


----------



## fonz (Feb 16, 2013)

cpu82 said:
			
		

> Opera's strategy has been well received in the platform.


What platform? Most reactions I've heard are negative.


----------



## cpm@ (Feb 16, 2013)

fonz said:
			
		

> What platform? Most reactions I've heard are negative.



Comment modified. I referred to WebKit. Clearly, Opera was going to change using the WebKit prefixes. Opera CTO HÃ¥kon Wium Lie said as public justification:


> "People are using WebKit prefixes for CSS properties and itâ€™s been troublesome for other browsers to render those pages without supporting the WebKit prefixes. That has been part of the shift weâ€™re seeing and itâ€™s also been part of our decision making. What we see as very positive is that we will be able to take some of our best engineers and have them work on common code that many people will use â€” we will reach more people this way."



Petition to Opera Software: Open sources of Presto engine.


----------



## dclau (Feb 16, 2013)

A more direct link to the petition: https://www.change.org/petitions/opera-software-open-sources-of-presto-engine.


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Feb 21, 2013)

jb_fvwm2 said:
			
		

> My apologies. My initial TODO ( to maybe fix the webkit segfault )  is replace ncurses-devel with ncurses and rebuild the two webkit on the other build machine.  But I only schedule that way less often than visiting these threads...



Hmmm.  This machine, xombrero, uzbl-tabbed, midori all segfault. Its build machine, runs them fine, after a library or two rebuild (libffi).  The main difference is the nosuid /tmp probably causing it to segfault.  All that's
needed is a method to have the nosuid temporarily removed to run the browser, or some equivalent fix...
....
edit.
....
the nosuid was not at fault... they still segfault


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Feb 23, 2013)

jb_fvwm2 said:
			
		

> Hmmm.  This machine, xombrero, uzbl-tabbed, midori all segfault. Its build machine, runs them fine, after a library or two rebuild (libffi).  The main difference is the nosuid /tmp probably causing it to segfault.  All that's
> needed is a method to have the nosuid temporarily removed to run the browser, or some equivalent fix...
> ....
> edit.
> ...




```
midori [some very simple page, had a 404 today]
uzbl-browser "
xombrero "
```
Those do not segfault.  The defaults do...


----------



## jb_fvwm2 (Feb 24, 2013)

Rebuilt a slew of dependencies. All three ports segfaulted/exited after each one.

```
pkg_delete -f /var/db/pkg/webkit-gtk2-1.4.3_2
pkg_add webkit-gtk2-1.4.3_2  # from the other machine
```
*Now* all three work perfectly...  [ Could have saved a half hour of typing
at the keyboard doing the latter task rather than the former.... ]


----------



## cpm@ (Mar 11, 2013)




----------



## Beastie (Mar 28, 2013)

Carpetsmoker said:
			
		

> Also, I like Dragonfly. Webkit means the Webkit inspector (UI by Google, so it's completely unusable).


It seems not: http://business.opera.com/company/jobs/opening/372/


----------



## freesbies (Mar 31, 2013)

The *l*ast versions of Opera were very buggy. I used Opera as my main browser for years but now I'm using Firefox and it seems nice and quick when loading heavy websites.


----------



## tingo (Apr 3, 2013)

I'm still using Opera (just checked, version 12.14 on this FreeBSD workstation) in addition to Firefox. I really love those old keyboard shortcuts of Opera!. Also, on FreeBSD Opera is my flash browser, for those occasions it is needed.


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Apr 3, 2013)

Aren't the keyboard shortcuts the same as in Firefox and Chrome?


----------



## Beastie (Apr 4, 2013)

12.15 was released today.

http://www.opera.com/docs/changelogs/unified/1215/


----------



## Carpetsmoker (Apr 4, 2013)

drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> Aren't the keyboard shortcuts the same as in Firefox and Chrome?



Most, but not all. Especially if you check the `enable single-key shortcuts'.

In addition, you can actually modify the keybinds in an easy and straightforward way. AFAIK you can't do that in either Firefox or Chrome.


----------



## tingo (Apr 4, 2013)

drhowarddrfine said:
			
		

> Aren't the keyboard shortcuts the same as in Firefox and Chrome?



No, they are not (I'm talking about the "Opera 9.2 Compatible" shortcuts here).
Things like "z" for back - it's so much easier than Alt-LeftCursor, IMHO.


----------



## silicium (Apr 4, 2013)

Would love to see a browser without any keyboard shortcut, or any unwanted shortcut could be disabled.
Opera became my favorite browser when I discovered I couldn't use Firefox because of its Alt-key handler that conflicts with my custom xmodmaps for better layout, accessibility and AltGr key remapped to normal Alt (or should I hack Firefox source?).
Opera looks even better on Windows with the binary patch that disables hardcoded domain highlighting (otherwise, I had to hide the unusable URL bar with grey text on grey background from dark color theme).


----------



## vermaden (Apr 5, 2013)

tingo said:
			
		

> No, they are not (I'm talking about the "Opera 9.2 Compatible" shortcuts here).
> Things like "z" for back - it's so much easier than Alt-LeftCursor, IMHO.



And things like using keys [1] and [2] to see prev/next tab instead of [CTRL]+[PGUP]/[PGDOWN].


----------



## tingo (Apr 5, 2013)

vermaden said:
			
		

> And things like using keys [1] and [2] to see prev/next tab instead of [CTRL]+[PGUP]/[PGDOWN].



That one had escaped me - thanks!


----------



## Carpetsmoker (May 28, 2013)

Since this seems to have become a general Opera thread:

http://my.opera.com/ODIN/blog/2013/05/28/a-first-peek-at-opera-15-for-computers

Only on Windows for now.

To sum it up: It's pretty much Chrome with an Opera logo. There are a few changes to Chrome (some might be okay), but it's missing *a lot* of features from Opera 12 (Not gonna list 'em here, look at the comments).

So it is as I've feared: The browser that sucked the least now sucks just as much as all the others.


----------



## Beastie (May 28, 2013)

I considered posting, but this pre-alpha version lacks so many features, I didn't bother. Plus it's only available for Windows and MacOS; No Linux and FreeBSD for now.

I don't fully agree with you, @Carpetsmoker. It's not "Chrome with an Opera logo"... It's MUCH WORSE: it's so rudimentary it looks like a 2008 Chrome preview!!!

No opera:config and a Chrome-like configuration instead? Mouse gestures that don't work? No menu bar? No customizable toolbars? No fit-to-width? No F12 menu? No easy way to disable images, JavaScript and plugins? No more bookmarks? No tab-stacking? No "confirm exit" message (just like Chrome)? No Back/Forward history menu? No closed tabs list (only a "last closed tab")? No Author/User mode? Seriously? All this, just to have a better support for pages that didn't want to support Opera (e.g. A**book)? *double facepalm*

Oh, and Blink is supposed to be a cleaned up/trimmed down version of Webkit, right? What's with the 24MB setup on Windows? TWICE as big as the latest release. The mail client is not even included by default anymore, for Pete's sake!

I hope they don't intend to keep it like that. Replacing an application I've been using for more than a decade will be very hard, if not impossible.

Up until now, I was still optimistic. Much less so now, as it really seems some features will be gone for good.


----------



## ColdfireMC (Jun 2, 2013)

libpng issue still remains in the last verion of www/opera (12.15).


----------



## drhowarddrfine (Jun 2, 2013)

Didn't look through this whole thread but, just to make sure there's no confusion, WebKit and Blink are the rendering engines for the browser - how stuff gets laid out on the screen - and not the browser itself. 

The usage of "vendor specific prefixes" are only there to allow browser vendors to allow usage of their version of a property and are not there as part of any standard. An experimental version of a proposed standard property is its most common usage but there are plenty of never-to-be standard properties as well.

No web developer needs to use these things. I can see some doing so to present some adornment to Chrome that isn't available in IE or Firefox but won't be missed. We do that for IE all the time (IE users never know what they're missing). 

Any web developer who uses a WebKit-only feature that is needed to make a site perform properly is an idiot. So there will never be a "WebKit only Internet" except among idiots.


----------



## fonz (Jun 2, 2013)

Beastie said:
			
		

> No tab-stacking?


Although I've been an Opera stalwart since the early naughties, I recently gave up and "just" went back to the least objectionable alternative (which would be Firefox). But if there's one Opera feature I'm missing, it's tab-stacking. As Jeremy Clarkson would say:


> How hard can it be?


As it turns out, for Mozilla it's apparently very hard indeed.


----------



## Grell (Jun 2, 2013)

I just installed Opera and have it set up the way I like it.  So far none of the bugginess that Chrome had.  I am liking it a lot.


----------



## sossego (Jun 11, 2013)

I have version 12.15 and it crashes when accessing Facebook. Site preferences don't work and there doesn't seem to be a verbose output option. FreeBSD i386 10.0 installed on a laptop with Centrino Duo processors.


----------



## graudeejs (Jun 11, 2013)

sossego said:
			
		

> I have version 12.15 and it crashes when accessing Facebook. Site preferences don't work and there doesn't seem to be a verbose output option. FreeBSD i386 10.0 installed on a laptop with Centrino Duo processors.



10.0 is not out yet. You mean 10-CURRENT.


----------

