# How good is FreeBSD for desktop use



## asifnaz (Jan 12, 2011)

I am looking for a stable OS for desktop use. I am doing that for an old PC PIII 1 ghz and 256 ram, So I think PCBSD is not an option.

I use my desktop for simple word processing, music, videos and browsing etc .

Need your advice.

Thanks.


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## vermaden (Jan 12, 2011)

I used FreeBSD on that kind of machines (even AMD K6-2 500MHz with 192 MB RAM) with Fluxbox/Opera/Thunar/OpenOffice and it worked quite good.


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## Beastie (Jan 12, 2011)

It's very good. And its stability is on the top in my opinion.

For word processing you can use Open/LibreOffice or an old Microsoft Office (e.g. 2000/2003) through WINE, as the former can be quite heavy.
There are many multimedia players. I personally use mplayer and never need anything else. It's very lightweight and plays everything I throw it.
All web browsers are available (Firefox, Opera, etc.), including all the very high-quality text-mode browsers, elinks being my favorite because it has tabs among other useful features.

One of the machines I own is an old 333 Mhz Celeron with a 128 MB memory. I stay away from all desktop environments (obviously) and use lightweight window managers (e.g. fvwm) and applications. Actually I do that even on more powerful machines.


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## dontphukwidmaUnix (Jan 12, 2011)

Just do it, you won't regret it. I know I don't.


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## asifnaz (Jan 13, 2011)

Thank you for you replies. I will definately give it a try. What desktop it uses as default btw (gnome OR kde etc).


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## purgatori (Jan 13, 2011)

asifnaz said:
			
		

> thank you for you replies . I will defiantly give it a try . what desktop it uses as default btw (gnome OR kde etc)



It doesn't have a default desktop environment. If you want a FreeBSD variant that comes with a desktop environment installed by default, then you might want to try PCBSD instead, which uses KDE.


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## asifnaz (Jan 13, 2011)

It has some sort of windows manager? Or just a CLI?


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## graudeejs (Jan 13, 2011)

By default (minimal setup) it's CLI only.
The you can add everything you ever want.

It's perfect


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## Beastie (Jan 13, 2011)

Minimal setup or not, FreeBSD itself remains "CLI only".  The minimal setup is a base and kernel and the full setup is a base and kernel, full sources, a few extras for developers, documentation and "games". X magic comes from the outside (port/packages).


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## graudeejs (Jan 13, 2011)

Beastie said:
			
		

> Minimal setup or not, FreeBSD itself remains "CLI only".  The minimal setup is a base and kernel and the full setup is a base and kernel, full sources, a few extras for developers, documentation and "games".



Indeed.


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## asifnaz (Jan 13, 2011)

Beastie said:
			
		

> Minimal setup or not, FreeBSD itself remains "CLI only".  The minimal setup is a base and kernel and the full setup is a base and kernel, full sources, a few extras for developers, documentation and "games". X magic comes from the outside (port/packages).



Well I am fairly good with Linux CLI but I have no idea about BSD yet. I will really appreciate if you could tell/give link where I can learn commands to install basic stuff.

After that I will definately return to the community.


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## vermaden (Jan 13, 2011)

asifnaz said:
			
		

> I will really appreciate if you could tell/give link where I can learn commands to install basic stuff.



Here mate, everything in one place, chapter after chapter: http://freebsd.org/handbook


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## asifnaz (Jan 13, 2011)

vermaden said:
			
		

> Here mate, everything in one place, chapter after chapter: http://freebsd.org/handbook



Thank you. But this information is too much for a starter. I just need to know how to install very basic stuff like X-windows etc. I will take care rest of the stuff when I am in GUI.


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## vermaden (Jan 13, 2011)

There is whole chapter dedicated to X11, including installing it: http://freebsd.org/handbook/x-install.html


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## asifnaz (Jan 13, 2011)

vermaden said:
			
		

> There is whole chapter dedicated to X11, including installing it: http://freebsd.org/handbook/x-install.html



I will look over it and ask here if get some problems .


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## hopspitfire (Jan 13, 2011)

I would recommend avoiding firefox and using Epiphany for much better stability in your DE.


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## graudeejs (Jan 13, 2011)

hopspitfire said:
			
		

> I would recommend avoiding firefox and using Epiphany for much better stability in your DE.



Why not to recommend lynx....?
Epiphany is a toy, that use Firefox in core (geko engine). What's the point in using it anyway?


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## vermaden (Jan 13, 2011)

Better use *Midori* instead of *Epiphany/Firefox *(or generally Gecko engine browsers), but *Midori *is in deep developing progress and sometimes not stable, but its the first browser I would use if I would not have *Opera*.


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## piggy (Jan 13, 2011)

vermaden said:
			
		

> Better use *Midori* instead of *Epiphany/Firefox *(or generally Gecko engine browsers), but *Midori *is in deep developing progress and sometimes not stable, but its the first browser I would use if I would not have *Opera*.


Ok, I know, Firefox 3.6.13 and 3.6 in general is not da best Firefox around, then it pretty much run ok on any of my environments. So I'm just asking, why, oh why, not on my Freebsd and also PCBSD boxes? Even in PCBSD sometimes is sluggish, it stops on load, it do not support java. Whats wrong with Firefox 3.6.x and the BSD world? I do run Opera and sometimes the Chrome port, even better compared to Firefox, even if not completely stable, IMHO.


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## vermaden (Jan 13, 2011)

@piggy

I have used Firefox for long time ... till I 'met' Opera, then I 'met' the browser by big 'B' and I do not use any other browser, I also have Firefox installed just in case, for example works better with Exchange OWA mail interface, but for REAL 'browsing the net' Opera is just great.

I have tried various extension, mouse gestures extensions and so, and I must say that they all suck, same to Chrome if it comes to gestures.

Opera introduced extensions in 11.x and guess what, I did not even bothered to check them, because everything is there already 

There was time when Firefox was better for some purposes, like for example because it has Firebug, but now as Opera has Dragonfly, its pointless to use Firefox only for that reason.


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## graudeejs (Jan 13, 2011)

vermaden said:
			
		

> There was time when Firefox was better for some purposes, like for example because it has Firebug, but now as Opera has Dragonfly, its pointless to use Firefox only for that reason.



When you turn off JavaScript Firefox Firebug still works, while Operas Dragonfly obey to fact that JavaScript is disabled (thus doesn't work)

Proper UserScript and UserCSS is very nice feature that FireFox lacks


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## DutchDaemon (Jan 13, 2011)

Ok, this wasn't a very impressive topic to begin with, but it's going off a cliff now. Browser discussions! Again? 

Dropping this in Off-Topic.


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## Pushrod (Jan 13, 2011)

Another approach is to use Microsoft Windows and run just about any browser you want.


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## asifnaz (Jan 14, 2011)

Pushrod said:
			
		

> Another approach is to use Microsoft Windows and run just about any browser you want.



That is the last thing I am going to do . I am looking for a stable "OS" not a piece of junk .

search the link if you don't understand what I am talking about 


http://www.hallikainen.org/windoze/


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## Pushrod (Jan 14, 2011)

Hilarious. Any chance it was made in Windows?


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## kpedersen (Jan 14, 2011)

Use xxxterm 

http://opensource.conformal.com/wiki/XXXTerm

It is made by some of the OpenBSD devs. It uses webkit-gtk (in FreeBSD ports).

What is quite cool is that it works just like vi.

 google.com <-- Navigates to google
:q <-- Exits

It also has a cool feature like (elinks) where if you press 'f' it labels each hyperlink with a number so you can use mouseless browsing.

When I get some time, I plan to make a port. It is a little bit faffy to get it compiled


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## sossego (Jan 15, 2011)

It takes a little work to set up a desktop environment.
1) Set up Xorg.
2) Edit /etc/rc.conf.
3) Add a desktop environment through the ports collection.
4) Adjust kernel parameters in /boot/loader.conf.
5) Setup permissions.
6) Adjust the security.


Add to that a few other options and you have your desktop.


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## graudeejs (Jan 15, 2011)

kpedersen said:
			
		

> Use xxxterm
> 
> http://opensource.conformal.com/wiki/XXXTerm
> 
> ...



Screen-shot would be nice

Never mind, I made port
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=154025


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## sossego (Jan 15, 2011)

I can also vouch for xxxterm. It was suggested to me on Daemonforums for use on my Sun Blade 1000.
No luck in getting it to work in Debian. The response time is much quicker than a lot of browsers.


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## graudeejs (Jan 15, 2011)

It coredumps when I make ~/.xxxterm.conf


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## asifnaz (Jan 15, 2011)

sossego said:
			
		

> It takes a little work to set up a desktop environment.
> 1) Set up Xorg.
> 2) Edit /etc/rc.conf.
> 3) Add a desktop environment through the ports collection.
> ...



I can take care of all the required work (I have experience from Linux ) . But I will require some serious help from BSD community . I hope the community don't minds spoon-feeding 1st timers .


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## gkontos (Jan 15, 2011)

asifnaz said:
			
		

> I can take care of all the required work (I have experience from Linux ) . But I will require some serious help from BSD community . I hope the community don't minds spoon-feeding 1st timers .


If you have previous experience from Linux then it will be easier for you. Just go through the manual. You will be surprised on how accurate, precise it is. And don;t worry about the community, it is very friendly.


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## sossego (Jan 15, 2011)

killasmurf86 said:
			
		

> It coredumps when I make ~/.xxxterm.conf



Quick advice because I am not running my OpenBSD install or a graphical FreeBSD install.
Try setting up a small vm and put OpenBSD on it. Setup ports and then install xxxterm from www. 
Look for the conf file in /usr/share/examples/xxxterm 
You can ask kpederson or I later if we've had any luck on running the application in FreeBSD.


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## vermaden (Jan 15, 2011)

kpedersen said:
			
		

> Use xxxterm


Does not compile under FreeBSD (util.h: no such file or directory)

I would stick to *Midori*, which works great and is in ports/packages.


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## sossego (Jan 15, 2011)

http://ftp2.kr.freebsd.org/macports/release/base/src/registry2.0/util.h

http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=11137

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/url.cgi?ports/lang/libutils/pkg-descr

http://www.google.com/bsd?hl=en&q="util.h"+freebsd&btnG=Search


Now it can be found.


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## graudeejs (Jan 15, 2011)

sossego said:
			
		

> Quick advice because I am not running my OpenBSD install or a graphical FreeBSD install.
> Try setting up a small vm and put OpenBSD on it. Setup ports and then install xxxterm from www.
> Look for the conf file in /usr/share/examples/xxxterm
> You can ask kpederson or I later if we've had any luck on running the application in FreeBSD.


Sample conf file comes with tar
Fact is it breaks even if content of conf file is

```
#
```
lol




			
				vermaden said:
			
		

> Does not compile under FreeBSD (util.h: no such file or directory)
> 
> I would stick to *Midori*, which works great and is in ports/packages.


You can use my port 
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=154025


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## kpedersen (Jan 16, 2011)

killasmurf86 said:
			
		

> You can use my port



Damn, beat me to it 

I haven't actually tried with the config file lol, I just pass in a couple of parameters for the small modifications I need. I will give it a try shortly.

Also, another one very similar to xxxterm is vimprobable (http://www.vimprobable.org). This one admittedly seems a little more polished (and compiles more easily on freebsd). Plus some of the source was burrowed by xxxterm. Overall I prefer vimprobable, but the xxxterm download manager is quite awesome!

Note: Neither of these require firefox, I think vimperator is the name of the firefox addon.


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## sossego (Jan 16, 2011)

Papa Smurf always says, "Read the man pages."


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## purgatori (Jan 16, 2011)

kpedersen said:
			
		

> Damn, beat me to it
> 
> I haven't actually tried with the config file lol, I just pass in a couple of parameters for the small modifications I need. I will give it a try shortly.
> 
> ...



They both sound pretty good, but their dependency upon/use of webkit-gtk is a big black mark against them from my perspective. Not only am I not a big fan of webkit, but I have not been able to get the port to build on either FreeBSD 8.0, or 8.1. It must be because of all the nasty things I've said about it since its inception.


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## vermaden (Jan 16, 2011)

killasmurf86 said:
			
		

> You can use my port
> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=154025



Thanks mate, works like a charm


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## sossego (Jan 16, 2011)

KIllasmurf86: Please give the project maintainers credit and list that in the ports description. 
Let it be known that it is a port of an OpenBSD project to the FreeBSD system. Contact those people after, showing them this and ask for help. I am certain that they would be willing to help you.


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## graudeejs (Jan 16, 2011)

sossego said:
			
		

> KIllasmurf86: Please give the project maintainers credit and list that in the ports description.
> Let it be known that it is a port of an OpenBSD project to the FreeBSD system. Contact those people after, showing them this and ask for help. I am certain that they would be willing to help you.



I don't see any relation between xxxterm and OpenBSD on xxxterm homepages (nor OpenBSD homepage).
As for credits?
Ports usually doesn't mention who developed software. Instead there is reference to homepage WWW.


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## sossego (Jan 16, 2011)

Have you asked them for help with the xxxterm.conf problem or any other obstacle?
Have you joined their forum and worked openly with them to build it?



purgatori: Where does the build break?
On what architecture?
Which version of ports? The recent one? A previous release?

Try rebuilding it and look for each break. You may need to cd into a subdirectory 
and try making a build first. If it conflicts with another port or if a dependency isn't working,
then you need to let others know.
The port built fine for me on the Quicksilver. I had to reinstall the system, add the recent ports tree,
and then it built properly.


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## graudeejs (Jan 16, 2011)

http://opensource.conformal.com/flyspray/index.php?do=details&task_id=46&project=5


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## sossego (Jan 16, 2011)

Okay.
I'm trying a source build first on the quicksilver. I have no working X, so I won't know
when things won't render.
I'll let you know how it turns out.


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## sossego (Jan 16, 2011)

+1 
The port builds on the quicksilver.


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## sossego (Jan 16, 2011)

Yay! I'm there!
XXX-_Porno_-term on the quicksilver.
Booyah!


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## graudeejs (Jan 17, 2011)

vermaden said:
			
		

> Thanks mate, works like a charm



Update:
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=154089
This will fix critical bug in my port and update to latest version that builds


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## vermaden (Jan 17, 2011)

killasmurf86 said:
			
		

> Update:
> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=154089
> This will fix critical bug in my port and update to latest version that builds



Thanks for update mate, also I tried to build latest 1.2xx snapshot on FreeBSD, but I see that its not 'my' fault: 
_"+#LIB_DEPENDS=   gnutls.40:${PORTSDIR}/security/gnutls # NEEDED for v1.2xx, which currently doesn't build"_


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## graudeejs (Jan 17, 2011)

vermaden said:
			
		

> Thanks for update mate, also I tried to build latest 1.2xx snapshot on FreeBSD, but I see that its not 'my' fault:
> _"+#LIB_DEPENDS=   gnutls.40:${PORTSDIR}/security/gnutls # NEEDED for v1.2xx, which currently doesn't build"_



v1.2xx needs patching
I made some ugly Makefile patch and submitted it upstream
If you want to try it

Checkout source

```
$ export CVSROOT=anoncvs@opensource.conformal.com:/anoncvs/xxxterm
$ cvs co xxxterm
```

apply this patch

```
diff -ur xxxterm.bak/freebsd/Makefile xxxterm/freebsd/Makefile
--- xxxterm.bak/freebsd/Makefile	2011-01-17 18:18:27.000000000 +0200
+++ xxxterm/freebsd/Makefile	2011-01-17 19:09:49.000000000 +0200
@@ -2,7 +2,7 @@
 
 LIBS= gtk+-2.0 webkit-1.0 libsoup-2.4
 
-LDADD= -llibutil
+LDADD= -lutil
 GTK_CFLAGS!= pkg-config --cflags $(LIBS)
 GTK_LDFLAGS!= pkg-config --libs $(LIBS)
 CFLAGS+= $(GTK_CFLAGS) -Wall -pthread
@@ -13,18 +13,20 @@
 LIBDIR?= $(PREFIX)/lib
 MANDIR?= $(PREFIX)/share/man
 
-CC?= gcc
+CC?= cc
 
-all: javascript.h xxxterm
+all: ../javascript.h xxxterm
 
-javascript.h: ../js-merge-helper.pl ../hinting.js
+../javascript.h: ../js-merge-helper.pl ../hinting.js
 	perl ../js-merge-helper.pl ../hinting.js \
-		../input-focus.js > javascript.h
+		../input-focus.js > ../javascript.h
 
-xxxterm.o: javascript.h
+xxxterm.o: ../xxxterm.o
 
-xxxterm: ../xxxterm.o freebsd.o
-	$(CC) $(LDFLAGS) -o $@ $+ $(LDADD)
+../xxxterm.o: ../javascript.h
+
+xxxterm: xxxterm.o freebsd.o
+	$(CC) $(LDFLAGS) -o $@ *.o $+ $(LDADD)
 
 install: all
 	install -m 755 -d $(DESTDIR)$(BINDIR)
Only in xxxterm: javascript.h
```
and then cd to freebsd directory, form there run make.


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