# Non-Linux OSes hardware support, a sad story



## badbrain (May 19, 2019)

Like the title, it's sad. I have to abandon FreeBSD only because I no longer have access to the internet cable, having to use wifi with an old desktop PC and my wifi dongle doesn't supported by FreeBSD. Indeed not supported by any OSes other than Windows and Linux. Very silly but true. I researched for many days and ended up given up. They sold many cheap dongles, but none supported by the BSDs because it's too new. If I want to continue using FreeBSD, I have to search for very old ones. And I found Wifi speed on the BSDs just very poor because lack of properly driver support. I just gave up. My country is just not the US.

Other BSDs even worse. And OpenIndiana even can't boot on my Core 2 duo, it's just silently hangs.

Linux is the cheapest option for me. I don't want to go back to Windows 7. If I want to use the BSDs, I have to invest even more. I just found, the more widely supported a products, the cheaper it is to use it. That's evenly right for smartphones. So, bye.


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## kpedersen (May 19, 2019)

You need to buy the correct hardware for the OS you want to run. Not the other way round.

For example, no-one complains that a WiFi adaptor doesn't work with macOS (and FreeBSD has *much* more support). Instead an Apple user will simply buy one that does work!

If not, just run FreeBSD in Windows Hyper-V. Think of it as a proprietary hardware abstraction layer.


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## Spartrekus (May 19, 2019)

badbrain said:


> Like the title, it's sad. I have to abandon FreeBSD only because I no longer have access to the internet cable, having to use wifi with an old desktop PC and my wifi dongle doesn't supported by FreeBSD. Indeed not supported by any OSes other than Windows and Linux. Very silly but true. I researched for many days and ended up given up. They sold many cheap dongles, but none supported by the BSDs because it's too new. If I want to continue using FreeBSD, I have to search for very old ones. And I found Wifi speed on the BSDs just very poor because lack of properly driver support. I just gave up. My country is just not the US.
> 
> Other BSDs even worse. And OpenIndiana even can't boot on my Core 2 duo, it's just silently hangs.
> 
> Linux is the cheapest option for me. I don't want to go back to Windows 7. If I want to use the BSDs, I have to invest even more. I just found, the more widely supported a products, the cheaper it is to use it. That's evenly right for smartphones. So, bye.



it is working on today freebsd: 
*Belkin Surf N300 Micro WLAN USB-Adapter*


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## Phishfry (May 19, 2019)

Look at it this way. A operating system is nothing more than a tool.
You need to use the tool that fulfills your task.


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## malavon (May 19, 2019)

Drivers are written by people. One can always look at the source code for the Linux driver and use that knowledge to write a driver for FreeBSD.
Especially USB stuff shouldn't be too difficult compared to discrete PCI/PCIe hardware.

Anyway, enjoy Linux or whatever other OS you decide to use.


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## hitest (May 19, 2019)

kpedersen said:


> You need to buy the correct hardware for the OS you want to run. Not the other way round.



Agreed.  This is a good resource.  Read before you buy.

FreeBSD 12.0-RELEASE Hardware Notes


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## Deleted member 9563 (May 19, 2019)

Hmm. I felt the same way as badbrain this last week. I don't know if this is in the manual (any manual), but there really should be a red letter warning on the cover which says:

*WARNING:
 COMPUTERS ARE FRUSTRATING*​


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## neel (May 19, 2019)

kpedersen said:


> You need to buy the correct hardware for the OS you want to run. Not the other way round.



+1.

However, there are exceptions. If you bought a $1500 laptop that doesn't work well with FreeBSD, say a Razer Blade or a Microsoft Surface model, then economics work in favor of abandoning *BSD (unless you are a kernel programmer and expect to port *BSD to a not-well-supported laptop like a Razer/Surface device).

But for a Wi-Fi adapter, next time you should look for what chipset it runs before buying. Don't just buy anything because it's a good deal on Amazon/eBay/AliExpress/etc. If you are looking for one, search with names like "Realtek" or "Ralink". That's how I got a compatible Wi-Fi dongle on eBay.


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## trev (May 20, 2019)

If you're happy with a Core 2 Duo, then a secondhand late-2009 Apple Mac mini has supported WiFi built-in as does my 2007 Mac mini (both running FreeBSD 12.0).


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## PMc (May 20, 2019)

WiFi adapters of that age one might find at the flea market also.


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## Lamia (May 20, 2019)

neel said:


> +1.
> 
> However, there are exceptions. If you bought a $1500 laptop that doesn't work well with FreeBSD, say a Razer Blade or a Microsoft Surface model, then economics work in favor of abandoning *BSD (unless you are a kernel programmer and expect to port *BSD to a not-well-supported laptop like a Razer/Surface device).
> 
> But for a Wi-Fi adapter, next time you should look for what chipset it runs before buying. Don't just buy anything because it's a good deal on Amazon/eBay/AliExpress/etc. If you are looking for one, search with names like "Realtek" or "Ralink". That's how I got a compatible Wi-Fi dongle on eBay.


Zyxel is another name to look out for..


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## zirias@ (May 20, 2019)

Great, we have the next troll thread by the same person and a lot of people falling for it.

Simple as that, anyone actually wanting to have a problem solved will simply ask and/or file bug reports.


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## badbrain (May 20, 2019)

Zirias said:


> Great, we have the next troll thread by the same person and a lot of people falling for it.
> 
> Simple as that, anyone actually wanting to have a problem solved will simply ask and/or file bug reports.


Hater gonna hate. I know you hate me so I'm just ignore you.


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## badbrain (May 20, 2019)

trev said:


> If you're happy with a Core 2 Duo, then a secondhand late-2009 Apple Mac mini has supported WiFi built-in as does my 2007 Mac mini (both running FreeBSD 12.0).





PMc said:


> WiFi adapters of that age one might find at the flea market also.


No. It's another computer. My pc now is an intel g2030. It doesn't have any built-in wireless card so I have to use usb dongle. As I said above, I don't live on the US. Second hand pc here mostly old Thinkpad laptop. I have never own or used any laptop, only desktop up to now.


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## badbrain (May 20, 2019)

neel said:


> +1.
> 
> However, there are exceptions. If you bought a $1500 laptop that doesn't work well with FreeBSD, say a Razer Blade or a Microsoft Surface model, then economics work in favor of abandoning *BSD (unless you are a kernel programmer and expect to port *BSD to a not-well-supported laptop like a Razer/Surface device).
> 
> But for a Wi-Fi adapter, next time you should look for what chipset it runs before buying. Don't just buy anything because it's a good deal on Amazon/eBay/AliExpress/etc. If you are looking for one, search with names like "Realtek" or "Ralink". That's how I got a compatible Wi-Fi dongle on eBay.


It's a Ralink MT7601 as lsusb show. Many names other suggested is not available here. And I'm a noob, I don't know how to file a bug report or using mailing lists.


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## badbrain (May 20, 2019)

kpedersen said:


> If not, just run FreeBSD in Windows Hyper-V. Think of it as a proprietary hardware abstraction layer.


Indeed what I means when I said Linux is my cheapest option. If I want to use this scheme I will need to upgrade to a Ryzen 2200g with 4 cores and buy 8gb dram3 for the FreeBSD guest (2 cores, 4gb ram) run smoothly. Cost more than just staying with Linux and abandon FreeBSD.


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## kpedersen (May 20, 2019)

badbrain said:


> If I want to use this scheme I will need to upgrade to a Ryzen 2200g with 4 cores and buy 8gb dram3 for the FreeBSD guest (2 cores, 4gb ram) run smoothly. Cost more than just staying with Linux and abandon FreeBSD.



You can happily get away with an Intel Core 2 Duo and 4 gigs running on 32-bit Windows XP and Microsoft's free VirtualPC:








						Chapter 23. Virtualization
					

Virtualization software allows multiple operating systems to run simultaneously on the same computer




					www.freebsd.org
				




This is the spec of one of my laptops (some crappy acer) that did not play well with native FreeBSD but as a guest OS it was actually pretty nice. No matter how convenient FreeBSD jails are, a single click button "take snapshot" is really useful during the heat of development 

Windows XP works well:
1) It is lighter than all other operating systems of that era.
2) 32-bits is all you need with 4 gigs. Remember, 64-bit operating systems are not faster, they can run slower due to pointer size / cache misses.
3) 100% secure when offline. Either disable ethernet access on the host (and only allow FreeBSD through) or set up a firewall (I.e Sygate Firewall) and block everything apart from VirtualPC

You can also run FreeBSD in a VM such as VirtualBox on Linux but the desktop environments are much less efficient than Windows XP. You will be wasting resources; better spent within FreeBSD doing the stuff you actually want to be doing 



neel said:


> However, there are exceptions. If you bought a $1500 laptop that doesn't work well with FreeBSD, say a Razer Blade or a Microsoft Surface model, then economics work in favor of abandoning *BSD (unless you are a kernel programmer and expect to port *BSD to a not-well-supported laptop like a Razer/Surface device).



True; but at the same time, Linux is no walk in the park with these awkward kinds of "non-standard" hardware either. I would either sell it (most likely because I find gamer / consumer laptops too flimsy and breakable for proper use) or the Virtual machine route as mentioned above (Just with a more modern Windows). That way I can ensure driver compatibility using the one OS that it was (narrow-minded) manufactured to run with. Then in around 5 years when the newest version of Windows no-longer supports it; FreeBSD will probably be the best bet anyway. Hardware compatibility basically solves itself (with a lot effort on behalf of the many contributors to FreeBSD)


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## drhowarddrfine (May 20, 2019)

Last I looked, a wifi adapter that works with FreeBSD is readily available for $9 US new. I don't understand the issue. I've run FreeBSD on old and new laptops including my workstation for years.


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## kpedersen (May 20, 2019)

drhowarddrfine said:


> Last I looked, a wifi adapter that works with FreeBSD is readily available for $9 US new. I don't understand the issue. I've run FreeBSD on old and new laptops including my workstation for years.



Yes, I think you must be really unlucky to get a wifi adapter that doesn't work on FreeBSD these days. At worst you need to mess about a little with installing firmware from ports / packages.

But if in doubt, go to a Raspberry Pi website and just get one of these. It almost guarantees FreeBSD compatibility because we often share the same driver work.








						Raspberry Pi USB Accessories
					

Your Raspberry Pi 4 comes equipped with no less than 4 USB ports for adding storage, peripherals and other devices. At The Pi Hut, we offer a great range of quality USB add-ons for your Raspberry Pi. For game control, we stock a selection of Raspberry Pi USB gamepads for use with retro gaming...




					thepihut.com


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## badbrain (May 20, 2019)

kpedersen said:


> You can happily get away with an Intel Core 2 Duo and 4 gigs running on 32-bit Windows XP and Microsoft's free VirtualPC:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's very untrue. FreeBSD and any other OSes except FreeDOS require VMX support from the processor. And even more with that limited resource I would rather rent a VPS offers FreeBSD because it's too slow to be usable. Your suggestion with my hardware specs is unpractical. I want a full desktop not only CLI. Only NetBSD, with this hack I could use it on Virtualbox on Linux with text mode:
*vboxsdl --norawr0 --startvm NetBSD

It's the reason why I respect NetBSD. When everyone abandoned me, only it be with me.

And I have to give up on Windows 7 because updating more and more difficult. MS caused this. With latest Chrome you will find SSL certificate errors (https connection not safe, no affect if you adjust date time like previous time). And I don't want to be bad guy anymore, I will not use cracked softwares any longer.*


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## SirDice (May 20, 2019)

Why don't you simply get a cheap wireless access-point and set it up as a wireless->wired bridge?


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## badbrain (May 20, 2019)

SirDice said:


> Why don't you get a cheap wireless access-point and set it up as a wireless->wired bridge?


If I know how to do this. You're overestimated me.


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## SirDice (May 20, 2019)

Just get a Linksys WAP300N or something similar. The WAP connects to the wireless network. The ethernet ports are then usable for devices that don't have wifi, it's just a plain ethernet at that point. I have one in my bedroom as my TV's wifi only supports 2.4GHz and has really dodgy reception. The TV and media-players are now hooked up to the WAP300N with ethernet, the WAP in turn is connected to my wifi network with 5GHz (much better reception and less crowded).


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## kpedersen (May 20, 2019)

badbrain said:


> It's very untrue. FreeBSD and any other OSes except FreeDOS require VMX support from the processor.



The Core 2 Duo is enough for that. It has Intel VT-x. Virtualization isn't just for gamer PCs or servers. Remember a lot of development tools also use it for emulators etc.









						Product Specifications
					

quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.




					ark.intel.com
				




What I mean is that pretty much any laptop or PC you can buy today (even budget range) has some sort of virtualisation support. Just remember to enable it in the bios. Yes to run bigger tools like server grade Hyper-V you need (pointlessly?) SLAT and other things. VirtualBox is generally always workable though.

Or check out something like the PQI Airpen (Similar to SirDice's suggestion)





						PQI Air Pen Express Wireless Router : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories
					

Buy



					www.amazon.co.uk
				




The USB is just for power, it really just converts a WiFi network into standard ethernet. I use this for my Solaris 10 workstation.

Where there's a will, there's a way!


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## shkhln (May 20, 2019)

badbrain said:


> P/s: please ban me.



Keep the posts, though.


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## badbrain (May 20, 2019)

shkhln said:


> Keep the posts, though.


Tks for reminded me. Too careless, I deleted it soon enough, he he


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## shkhln (May 20, 2019)

badbrain said:


> Tks for reminded me.



You're welcome.


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## Phishfry (May 20, 2019)

badbrain said:


> My country is just not the US.


I totally appreciate where you are coming from. In many countries $10 is alot of money.
So I feel bad that you can't afford to buy new hardware to use FreeBSD.
I get it. So use the best tool you can find.
You will find that FreeBSD USB wireless is terrible with only 802.11G on some popular sticks.
Plus only one channel and very tiny antenna.
They are useful for around 7 meters depending on competing AP channel signals.
I would consider them last resort.

What I would like to see is a donation system for people not in the US/EU that need hardware.
How much stuff gets 'recycled' that is still usable elsewhere. Instead smashed for tiny bits of gold.

To me Core2Duo is the lowest I would go for an embedded machine. I retired all my DDR1 rigs.


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## kpedersen (May 20, 2019)

Phishfry said:


> How much stuff gets 'recycled' that is still usable elsewhere. Instead smashed for tiny bits of gold.



I also imagine it is within hardware companies best interests to reduce the amount of "old" hardware in circulation so that everyone has to buy new.
So they probably dismantle it all on purpose so people cannot access perfectly good stuff any more.

I like to think we are sending this stuff off to 3rd world countries to teach people about tech to improve their lives but in reality business and money takes priority and they get nothing


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## Deleted member 9563 (May 20, 2019)

kpedersen said:


> I like to think we are sending this stuff off to 3rd world countries to teach people about tech to improve their lives but in reality business and money takes priority and they get nothing


I think they are even worse off than we are in North America. People are not educated to treat or use computers as tools. They only want fashionable stuff - _that _is the priority.


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## badbrain (May 20, 2019)

Don't take it too far. I'm totally possible to afford that $10 or even more. I'm not that poor. What I lack is knowledge and the fact is there're so much products to choose, most of them too new (and not supported) because we're just next to China, the world's factory. Price is also affordable here despite there're so many type of taxes. Don't waste effort and keep it to help your own country first. Don't let your kind heart being abused by corrupted people and leading to nowhere and help no one.


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## badbrain (May 20, 2019)

It's OK to recycling old but still usable hardware and send it to help 3rd world children access to technology. But send to the right place and to the right people and made sure you could verify it. New but cheap hardware, thanks to China, now more widely available and affordable. Made sure if they really need it before you started that donation system.


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## badbrain (May 20, 2019)

shkhln said:


> You're welcome.


Help me close the mess I caused. I'll not spam anymore and be good boy. Please 

Mod. Please close this thread.


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## trev (May 21, 2019)

I use a bunch of these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Min...eater-Adapter-Extender-QJY99/32826070622.html to provide wireless to Mac minis that have WiFi adapters which are not supported by FreeBSD and also to add wireless to my old laser printer. USB is connected to the computer/printer for power, Ethernet port is connected to the computer/printer for WiFi. The pocket router is connected to the WiFi network as an access point.


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## rufwoof (May 27, 2019)

I 'trick' I've used in the past is if you have a phone that you can tether to using a USB/micro-usb cable link and the phone can wireless connect to your router ... then sorted.


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## recluce (May 28, 2019)

badbrain said:


> Like the title, it's sad. I have to abandon FreeBSD only because I no longer have access to the internet cable, having to use wifi with an old desktop PC and my wifi dongle doesn't supported by FreeBSD.



Extremely useless whining and completely pointless. The guy is using a desktop PC, so here is the recipe to solve the issue:

1. Take a look at the compatibility list and find a couple of compatible USB dongles you like
2. Buy the dongle new or used, I guess $10 to $20 should do it.
3. Insert new dongle and use Wi-Fi. Takes 2 minutes, much quicker than installing a new OS.
4. Spare us the lament.


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