# Wayland screenshots



## Alain De Vos (Aug 7, 2021)

Post your wayland screenshots and or configs.
A bit "boring" , sway+wayland+mate-panel+strawberry-player,


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## a6h (Aug 8, 2021)

One of my friends -- a long time Arch (recently Artix) user, has been struggling with the dilemma of adopting Wayland in his Bash-written Linux life or to migrate to one of the BSDs and start over.


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## kpedersen (Aug 8, 2021)

This thread might be a bit limited for a few (50+?) years. 

Raw compositors are like re-writing incomplete X11 servers so there remains very few of them. They also look and function identically to the X11 Window Managers they are cloning so they might as well be in the standard screenshots thread?


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## Alain De Vos (Aug 8, 2021)

Most people don't use wayland, and if they do most use KDE.
Note, I don't use stacking layout, or "hikari".  I don't resize or place Windows. 
The tabbed layout is all i need, and I find it really productive.
There are not many "bars". One is swaybar, another one is waybar, a third one is sfwbar.


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## kpedersen (Aug 8, 2021)

Alain De Vos said:


> Note, I don't use stacking layout, or "hikari".  I don't resize or place Windows.
> The tabbed layout is all i need, and I find it really productive.
> There are not many "bars". One is swaybar, another one is waybar, a third one is sfwbar.


I am a big fan of tiling window managers. However I always found i3 to be the least efficient one. You have to manually tell it to toggle vert or horiz tile mode or you just get really narrow unusable rows or columns. I don't really want to have to think about that when working.

But I suppose with Wayland, that will be the only option for a long time. A bit painful to see quite frankly. However I suppose there are some guys who actively chose i3 from all the others on X11 so those few are probably fine. I am not sure if you were among them?


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## Alain De Vos (Aug 8, 2021)

Previously i was an xfce4 and lxqt user. With qt5ct and lxqt you have nice windows.
Now, what i do i start sway , i press mod-w once for tabbed layout, and that's it. All windows have some layout.
I have not figured out to have a bar with tabs to the left of the screen instead of the default top of the screen.


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## kpedersen (Aug 8, 2021)

Alain De Vos said:


> Now, what i do i start sway , i press mod-w once for tabbed layout, and that's it. All windows have some layout.


Hopefully you like the tabs because you can't hide them. My 1024x768 laptop can't spare this kind of gluttony 

You can go into classic tiles but they don't provide a master / side area so you just end up with those unusably narrow sections.

You can fullscreen one window but then you can't interact or toggle between others until you specifically "unfullscreen" the previous (it also hides Chrome's address bar and other weirdness).

Obviously i3 and sway are liked by some guys. I just find them strange. They offer all the "modes" of a tiling WM but I personally find that all of them are slightly lacking in one way or another for my workflow. I just find there are more effective tiling WMs (for X11 of course. There are practically none for Wayland which must be scary. All eggs in one basket and all )

(Anyways, apologies, I don't want to derail the thread talking about limitations of i3 and clones).


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## Alain De Vos (Aug 8, 2021)

I practice you only look at only Window at a time unless you are at mission control for rocket launching.
At this one window can always be maximized.
Sometimes, but not often you like to look at two windows for a diff or something, but therefore I have two screens.
For coding & executing you can also have two windows.
But two is a small number


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## Alain De Vos (Aug 10, 2021)

Did anyone tried waybar instead of swaybar. It shows nothing for me. Just a blue empty bar ...


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## astyle (Aug 11, 2021)

I think that having concrete examples of other DE's successfully running Wayland will help Wayland gain some steam on FreeBSD. I personally plan to stick to Plasma Wayland, and get it to upgrade properly (still a goal for me).


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## shiorid (Aug 19, 2021)




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## Alain De Vos (Aug 23, 2021)

Shiorid can you share your config ?
Here when i do "river", it's not starting ...


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## shiorid (Aug 27, 2021)

Alain De Vos said:


> Shiorid can you share your config ?
> Here when i do "river", it's not starting ...


Of course.
Both are shell scripts, just remove the .txt extension.


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## teo (Aug 28, 2021)

shiorid said:


> Of course.
> Both are shell scripts, just remove the .txt extension.


Why do you remove the .txt extension ?


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## Alain De Vos (Aug 28, 2021)

Shiroid, I tried your river config but it ends for me with :

```
info: initializing server
error(wlroots): [libseat] [libseat/backend/seatd.c:78] Could not connect to socket /var/run/seatd.sock: No such file or directory
info(wlroots): [libseat] [libseat/libseat.c:74] Backend 'seatd' failed to open seat, skipping
error(wlroots): [libseat] [libseat/backend/consolekit2.c:530] Could not get session: Unable to lookup session information for process '48839'
info(wlroots): [libseat] [libseat/libseat.c:74] Backend 'consolekit2' failed to open seat, skipping
error(wlroots): [libseat] [libseat/backend/seatd.c:588] Built-in seatd instance requires root privileges
info(wlroots): [libseat] [libseat/libseat.c:74] Backend 'builtin' failed to open seat, skipping
error(wlroots): [libseat] [libseat/libseat.c:77] No backend was able to open a seat
error(wlroots): [backend/session/session.c:84] Unable to create seat: Function not implemented
error(wlroots): [backend/session/session.c:218] Failed to load session backend
error(wlroots): [backend/backend.c:353] Failed to start a DRM session
error: BackendCreateFailed
```
Does it has something to do with vulkan i don't know ?
This is also strange : "Built-in seatd instance requires root privileges"


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## shiorid (Aug 29, 2021)

Alain De Vos said:


> Shiroid, I tried your river config but it ends for me with :
> 
> ```
> info: initializing server
> ...


Do you have the seatd service running?


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## Alain De Vos (Aug 29, 2021)

After "service seatd onestart" , river starts good.


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## shiorid (Aug 29, 2021)

Alain De Vos said:


> After "service seatd onestart" , river starts good.


Seatd is kind of the `de facto' seat management service. It's simple and won't mess with your environment like ConsoleKit2 does (not a bad thing tho, it's very useful for servers like PulseAudio, which I don't use).
If you want a functional Wayland session, you'll need seatd and dbus running.


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## astyle (Aug 29, 2021)

shiorid said:


> Seatd is kind of the `de facto' seat management service. It's simple and won't mess with your environment like ConsoleKit2 does (not a bad thing tho, it's very useful for servers like PulseAudio, which I don't use).
> If you want a functional Wayland session, you'll need seatd and dbus running.


Hmmm? I have an older (From June) Plasma Wayland session running (Plasma 5.21.5, KF5 5.82.0), and I just checked - I don't have a seatd service running... Did seatd somehow become important to having a functional Wayland session since June? For Wayland to gain any steam and traction, I'd think it should be possible to at least replicate somebody else's setup and have it work consistently.


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## kpedersen (Aug 29, 2021)

astyle said:


> For Wayland to gain any steam and traction, I'd think it should be possible to at least replicate somebody else's setup and have it work consistently.


Unfortunately I feel that currently Wayland is very much in Linux territory which means that consistency is not going to happen for a long time (if ever).

What is the lightest Wayland compositor you can find? They are still fairly massive but perhaps by really simplifying, it will give you a fighting chance at deterministic behavior for a few months.


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## Alain De Vos (Aug 29, 2021)

I agree, Wayland is usable and working, but far from being "stable".


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## Alain De Vos (Aug 30, 2021)

Note Shiroid, i found out i can start river within sway. Which is kind of cool.


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## Beastie7 (Aug 30, 2021)

Combining the compositor and window manager is the most idiotic thing you can do. Even in macOS, Quartz and Finder are separate entities. Wayland won’t go anywhere.

Id like to see a modern X11 implementation with X.org compatibility. The network isn’t going anywhere, so X11 is still a good protocol to utilize.


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## free-and-bsd (Aug 30, 2021)

Alain De Vos said:


> Most people don't use wayland, and if they do most use KDE.
> Note, I don't use stacking layout, or "hikari".  I don't resize or place Windows.
> The tabbed layout is all i need, and I find it really productive.
> There are not many "bars". One is swaybar, another one is waybar, a third one is sfwbar.


I used Wayland in Ubuntu (where it's the default), looks make no difference from the old thing.


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## Vull (Aug 30, 2021)

free-and-bsd said:


> I used Wayland in Ubuntu (where it's the default), looks make no difference from the old thing.


Which desktop has Wayland in Ubuntu? I have MATE desktop installed on Ubuntu 20.04:
	
	



```
root@ubuntu20:~# uname -a
Linux ubuntu20 5.11.0-27-generic #29~20.04.1-Ubuntu SMP Wed Aug 11 15:58:17 UTC 2021 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
root@ubuntu20:~# lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID:    Ubuntu
Description:    Ubuntu 20.04.3 LTS
Release:    20.04
Codename:    focal
root@ubuntu20:~# top -n 1 | grep -i wayland
root@ubuntu20:~# top -n 1 | grep -i xorg
   1211 root      20   0 1203380 113864  77744 S   6.2   1.6   0:07.04 Xorg
```

Edited to add: Answered my own question:

"Ubuntu ships Wayland as default in Ubuntu 17.10 (Artful Aardvark).[80] Ubuntu reverted to X.Org for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, as Wayland still has issues with screen sharing and remote desktop applications, and does not recover as well from window manager crashes.[81][82] Ubuntu ships Wayland by default in 21.04.[83]"

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server_protocol)#Desktop_Linux_distributions


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## free-and-bsd (Aug 30, 2021)

Vull said:


> Which desktop has Wayland in Ubuntu? I have MATE desktop installed on Ubuntu 20.04:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep. And I used the default DE, which is kinda GNOME3... or is it Unity? I don't know, I like it anyway. Mean, prefer it over KDE.
But the point is, the underlying thing is Wayland.
But there's one more thing. For most apps, I guess, they use Xorg-translation layer or something. Because I also used FVWM2 there, and it won't run on Wayland, you understand. But with that layer it runs all right.
EDIT: just checked in my bhyve Ubuntu (Live-ISO). It's Xorg, no Wayland.
Am I surprised? Can't say I am


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## Vull (Aug 30, 2021)

free-and-bsd said:


> Yep. And I used the default DE, which is kinda GNOME3... or is it Unity? I don't know, I like it anyway. Mean, prefer it over KDE.
> But the point is, the underlying thing is Wayland.
> But there's one more thing. For most apps, I guess, they use Xorg-translation layer or something. Because I also used FVWM2 there, and it won't run on Wayland, you understand. But with that layer it runs all right.


Thanks for bring this to my attention. I'm curious enough now to attempt the upgrade to 21.04 even though it is not yet an LTS version. I've never had much luck with Wayland before, and mainly just play around with Ubuntu out of curiosity anyway.


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## free-and-bsd (Aug 30, 2021)

Vull said:


> Thanks for bring this to my attention. I'm curious enough now to attempt the upgrade to 21.04 even though it is not yet an LTS version. I've never had much luck with Wayland before, and mainly just play around with Ubuntu out of curiosity anyway.


Here you go:


> For developers and innovators, Ubuntu 21.04 delivers *Wayland* and *Flutter* for smoother graphics and clean, beautiful, design-led cross-platform development.


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## free-and-bsd (Aug 30, 2021)

We don't yet have an Ubuntu port, do we?   
Anyway, one can make this more of a FreeBSD thing by running it in bhyve...
Which is, actually, the most proper way of running any non-BSD OS on a modern computer...


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## Vull (Aug 30, 2021)

free-and-bsd said:


> We don't yet have an Ubuntu port, do we?
> Anyway, one can make this more of a FreeBSD thing by running it in bhyve...
> Which is, actually, the most proper way of running any non-BSD OS on a modern computer...


Shan't be spending much time on this. My interest in byhve is presently non-existent, interest in Wayland and Ubuntu, only peripheral. FreeBSD has long been my preferred OS for most things I do. I'm retired but have some old web application software I still support, on bare-metal installations only, of FreeBSD, Debian, Ubuntu, and Linux Mint, mainly just for my own amusement. It's the primary focus of my continued interest in computers. Well, that plus youtube videos and a few other media streams I enjoy.


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## free-and-bsd (Aug 30, 2021)

Ok, Ubuntu 21.04 Live CD does NOT run Wayland. Perhaps, during the installation you're offered...


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## Vull (Aug 30, 2021)

free-and-bsd said:


> Ok, Ubuntu 21.04 Live CD does NOT run Wayland. Perhaps, during the installation you're offered...


Not running Live CD, rather, upgrading my existing 20.04 LTS test install, which I can easily redo later at my leisure.

"... Ubuntu 21.04 with native Microsoft Active Directory integration, *Wayland graphics by default*..." ~ https://ubuntu.com/blog/ubuntu-21-04-is-here

Edited to add: ha well the upgrade finished but it's still using Xorg. Might try again later with a fresh install, but starting to lose interest, and may very likely wait until it goes to an LTS version. Honestly don't have much confidence in the future of either Wayland or Ubuntu, and, as Linuxes go, tend to prefer Debian, or even Mint, which strangely outperforms Ubuntu in most areas, in my estimation, and this in spite of being a derivative thereof. But then again, even Debian has been slipping over the past few years-- so-- long live FreeBSD...

ETA 2: Just realized, duh, that "Wayland graphics by default" implies the Gnome3 desktop-- which is the Ubuntu default DE-- duh--and that's a deal-killer as far as I'm concerned. I'll be sticking with MATE for the foreseeable future, and leaving the doublespeak to their PR departments, where it, too, is the default...


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## shiorid (Aug 31, 2021)

Alain De Vos said:


> Note Shiroid, i found out i can start river within sway. Which is kind of cool.


You can "nest" wayland compositors. It's pretty cool


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## astyle (Aug 31, 2021)

shiorid said:


> You can "nest" wayland compositors. It's pretty cool


As long as you don't lose track of what's where


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## hardworkingnewbie (Aug 31, 2021)

For me Wayland is just another of these things with the big promise to "change the world for better", which never gets finished, is stuck in development like forever (~13 years by now) and therefore never gets relevant traction. Just like Btrfs in the Linux kernel as "ZFS killer." Some people might still believe that, the rest just uses ZFS instead since ages.

At best it's a nice proof of concept, but that's then already all about it.


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## hardworkingnewbie (Sep 3, 2021)

Well out of curiosity I've watched some talks about Wayland, and it gives me still some mixed feelings. On the positive side it tries to resolve some problems which are really there. Most and foremost having to rely still on X11, and that X11 is not exactly the best environment to really draw nice windows without having some nasty artifacts now and then. Also X11 is quite the heavy beast, and well not the most efficient things, baroque, ugly, whatever. 

Personally I found this talk about libinput, which has some fundamental diagrams of X11 and Wayland in it quite enlightening:





_View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HllUoT_WE7Y_


On the other side so under Wayland there's now only two things left: the Compositor, which is basically doing all screen drawings plus window management, and its applications. So something like window manager plus X11 server in one package.

Since every compositor is different this means that stuff, which are doable in Compositor A might not be doable in B and vice versa. This is why for input devices libinput was created, to handle all input devices. But still this can be something which might bite some programmers now and then. 

The other problem are dedicated GPUs. AMD and Intel do use GBM as technology to talk to the GPUs, while Nvidia uses EGL. So if somebody wants to use the proprietary drivers of AMD or Nvidia he's got to make sure first the compositor of choice uses that technology. If not supported most people will probably then switch to another compositor with the required support.


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## kpedersen (Sep 3, 2021)

hardworkingnewbie said:


> Since every compositor is different this means that stuff, which are doable in Compositor A might not be doable in B and vice versa. This is why for input devices libinput was created, to handle all input devices. But still this can be something which might bite some programmers now and then.


I think from the outcome of the talks, your view on it is pretty much spot on. This part in particular I feel there could be a good solution.

A single compositor that everyone uses. Anyone doing their own should be seen as odd or niche / hobbyist (like writing your own Xserver).


This compositor is pretty much blank in terms of looks and user-functionality but provides every feature (Xwayland, waypipe,  EGL hookup, etc).


A proper shim library (perhaps looking like libX11 or libXCB would be convenent for backwards compatibility but not 100% necessary) that everyone uses in a standardised and common way to provide the user-facing functionality (so basically the smaller window manager part ontop of the standard compositor base)
At the moment we are leaning towards this. Most projects use wl_roots (which is almost like that standard compositor). However underlying toolkits are not using it (it doesn't provide client functionality so much). Gtk, Qt and SDL2 as the main ones are very ad-hoc, thus non-standard, duplicated work etc.

My worry is that as terrible as it sounds, I don't think modern developers (including interests, funding, ability) have the discipline to pull it off. They are a scattered bunch and something like this probably needs to be developed by a commercial entity. Commercial entities these days are also not quite what they once were. They only care about cloud and cheap monetization ventures. Everyone is in too much of a rush to do something actually impressive and useful


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## astyle (Sep 3, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> I think from the outcome of the talks, your view on it is pretty much spot on. This part in particular I feel there could be a good solution.
> 
> A single compositor that everyone uses. Anyone doing their own should be seen as odd or niche / hobbyist (like writing your own Xserver).
> 
> ...


FWIW, Xorg started life as X Window System back in 1984 (v. X1 was released back then), and it was developed at MIT, before being spun off as XFree and then as Xorg. X11R6.5.1 was only publicly released in 2000. Wayland seems to be taking just as long to gain traction.


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## kpedersen (Sep 3, 2021)

astyle said:


> FWIW, Xorg started life as X Window System back in 1984 (v. X1 was released back then), and it was developed at MIT, before being spun off as XFree and then as Xorg. X11R6.5.1 was only publicly released in 2000. Wayland seems to be taking just as long to gain traction.


Indeed, it came from academia where they could take a step back and approach it from a potentially more creative standpoint rather than the majorities usecase (these days is playing games, reading email, web browsing). They also considered integration and how it could be utilised by existing institutions.

However, the very early days is kind of where Wayland is now. Where X11 really took off was (pre-Xorg) when it was adopted by a number of companies and standardised together. Check out the initial copyright comment of this file:

https://sourceforge.net/p/cdesktopenv/code/ci/master/tree/cde/lib/DtTerm/Term/Term.c

You can see the kinds of stakeholders that X11 technology had (not just CDE, these are all part of the OpenGroup that pushed Motif, Xt and things).

I don't think IT companies are able to work with one another these days. They are too interested in pushing their own agendas and locking in users with the least amount of actual effort. Open-source is possibly the only solution we have left but it is also simply too unorganised for what is needed.


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## scottro (Sep 3, 2021)

On a recent Ubuntu install, when you log in, you can choose Gnome on Wayland. (The opposite of Fedora which runs Gnome on Wayland by default but you can choose Gnome on X).


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## rorgoroth (Sep 14, 2021)

Just seen this: https://github.com/johanmalm/labwc

It aims to be openbox version for wayland, looks very good. I've not used openbox in probably 10 years or more but have good memories from it when I used CrunchBang Linux.


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## drhowarddrfine (Sep 14, 2021)

First time I bothered to look at this thread. Isn't this like asking for a screenshot of sh in the console as if sh is different looking than zsh in the console?


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## astyle (Sep 14, 2021)

drhowarddrfine said:


> First time I bothered to look at this thread. Isn't this like asking for a screenshot of sh in the console as if sh is different looking than zsh in the console?


I disagree, the screenshots of Wayland are a proof that it's working, somebody did get it to work, that it is on the way to becoming a drop-in replacement for Xorg. Evidence of working Wayland instances are like a way for Wayland movement to gather steam.


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## Vull (Sep 14, 2021)

I see 2 actual screenshots out of 43 posts so far. Are these "pure" Wayland or Xwayland?


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## kpedersen (Sep 14, 2021)

Vull said:


> I see 2 actual screenshots out of 43 posts so far.


To be fair, there are only three feasible Wayland compositors at this point in time so we do need to pad this thread out with noise to make up for it


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## Beastie7 (Sep 14, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> To be fair, there are only three feasible Wayland compositors at this point in time so we do need to pad this thread out with noise to make up for it



Just wait for systemd-wayland-linuxd. It's going to be a shit show.


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## Vull (Sep 14, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> To be fair, there are only three feasible Wayland compositors at this point in time so we do need to pad this thread out with noise to make up for it


Okay then




_View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dF9OLZKSC5k_


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## drhowarddrfine (Sep 14, 2021)

astyle said:


> I disagree, the screenshots of Wayland are a proof that it's working, somebody did get it to work, that it is on the way to becoming a drop-in replacement for Xorg. Evidence of working Wayland instances are like a way for Wayland movement to gather steam.


Or you can just say so. I'd believe them.


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## Alain De Vos (Sep 15, 2021)

Vull said:


> I see 2 actual screenshots out of 43 posts so far. Are these "pure" Wayland or Xwayland?


How can I know the difference ?

Note there are at least  3 functional window managers : sway,river,labwc. I find sway nested within labwc interesting.
Note : labwc has no bar.


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## kpedersen (Sep 15, 2021)

Alain De Vos said:


> there are at least 3 functional window managers [...] river, labwc


Possibly don't use it for anything important. From its website:

"_Note: river is currently early in development. Expect breaking changes and missing features
[...]
To enable experimental Xwayland support pass the -Dxwayland option as well."_

And it seems labwc doesn't support fullscreen yet. It is basically on par with TWM 

Also note that they are *not* window managers. They are entire compositors which is equivalent to 1/5 the work of an Xserver. They are very large project scopes for individual developers so I can't confidently say I have much trust in them to succeed. But good luck to them. i3 and emulations like Sway are fairly poor tiling environments (even the tiny DWM has more heuristics) so it will be good to have alternatives.


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## Alain De Vos (Sep 15, 2021)

It would be nice if i could have a "bar" in labwc.


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## kpedersen (Sep 15, 2021)

Alain De Vos said:


> It would be nice if i could have a "bar" in labwc.


Apparently two GUI programs communicating is "a security problem" in Wayland.


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## rorgoroth (Sep 15, 2021)

Alain De Vos said:


> It would be nice if i could have a "bar" in labwc.


To be fair, from wat I remember openbox didn't have one either, I remember using tint2.

Anyway from https://arewewaylandyet.com/ :

Status bar: Hybridbar, nwg-panel, Waybar, Yambar
I've only used waybar, not sure if the others are available/work on freebsd.
On my play system I've settled with Sway+Waybar+Fuzzel


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## Alain De Vos (Sep 15, 2021)

For labwc,

mate-panel works when i nest into sway. Otherwise it does not.
waybar shows nothing
swaybar show nothing.
nwg-menu does not work
nwg-bar does not work
Must test yambar & hybridbar


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## astyle (Sep 15, 2021)

Alain De Vos said:


> How can I know the difference ?
> 
> Note there are at least  3 functional window managers : sway,river,labwc. I find sway nested within labwc interesting.
> Note : labwc has no bar.


in Xterm, type:

```
echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
```
If it's Wayland, the code above will return `wayland`

Including that in the screenshot will go a long way to describing a screenshot that would otherwise be identical to what can be produced with Xorg.


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## Alain De Vos (Sep 15, 2021)

For labwc & sway XDG_SESSION_TYPE returns wayland


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## Alain De Vos (Sep 15, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> Possibly don't use it for anything important. From its website:
> 
> "_Note: river is currently early in development. Expect breaking changes and missing features
> [...]
> ...



sway within labwc or labwc within sway is fullscreen enough for me.


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## Vull (Sep 15, 2021)

Alain De Vos said:


> How can I know the difference ?
> 
> Note there are at least  3 functional window managers : sway,river,labwc. I find sway nested within labwc interesting.
> Note : labwc has no bar.


Good question, and I'm not really knowledgeable enough on the subject to provide a good answer. One way that worked on Ubuntu 21.04 was to simply run `ps -ef | grep -i wayland`, whereupon I found "Xwayland" in the output.

Did quite a bit of reading on the subject last week, but didn't keep good bookmarks. Here are a few I just happened to leave open in Firefox tabs:






						Are we Wayland yet?
					

Mostly...




					arewewaylandyet.com
				









						Wayland - Debian Wiki
					






					wiki.debian.org
				












						Wayland (protocol) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




Last week I burned about 6-8 hours on a little Wayland adventure. First I upgraded my Ubuntu 20.04 with Mate DE to 21.04, with the naive notion in my head that I would get "Wayland by default" as part of the package. No such luck, so, after some reading on the Ubuntu and Debian sites, I installed Ubuntu 21.04 with Gnome3 desktop. Went on a similar adventure with Debian and KDE before losing interest. All of this is outside of my main focus... if I can even claim to have any focus left, since I'm retired now. I'll probably stick with Mate, which, as far as I know, has no Wayland support whatsoever, anywhere.

I think Ubuntu is leading Debian down the primrose path, ruining most of what I ever liked about Debian in the process, but that's way off topic. More to the point, I suppose, Wayland seems to be a fine distraction for people and software institutions with too much time on their hands and money to waste. I don't see the need for Wayland, and, by the time if and when it ever reaches a point where it can stand on its own without using X as a crutch, it will be just as big and bloated as X ever was. However, like its friend and co-conspirator systemd, it will be less modular and more monolithic. JMHO, and I'm just an old dinosaur who probably won't live long enough to see the outcome anyway.


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## Alain De Vos (Sep 15, 2021)

One never knows Vull.


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## Vull (Sep 15, 2021)

True enough


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## kpedersen (Sep 15, 2021)

Alain De Vos said:


> sway within labwc. It is fullscreen enough for me.


So in labwc things like Firefox F12 (for fullscreen) or xpdf / LibreOffice fullscreen presentations work?

That said, it isn't a dealbreaker. Programs have slowly been breaking themselves for Motif WM fullscreen for years.


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## memreflect (Sep 16, 2021)

kpedersen said:


> i3 and emulations like Sway are fairly poor tiling environments (even the tiny DWM has more heuristics) so it will be good to have alternatives.


I'm curious about the reasoning behind that statement.  What makes them poor in your opinion?


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## Alain De Vos (Sep 16, 2021)

when you use labwc (stacking) within sway (tabbed/tiling), you have the best of both worlds.


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## shiorid (Sep 17, 2021)

Vull said:


> I see 2 actual screenshots out of 43 posts so far. Are these "pure" Wayland or Xwayland?


It's "pure" Wayland. I don't have Xwayand or X.org on my main system, besides some jails running Debian


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## sidetone (Sep 19, 2021)

Virtual category for Wayland:
`psearch -c wayland`


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## hardworkingnewbie (Oct 22, 2021)

Also interesting stuff: Wayland on Windows. https://github.com/microsoft/wslg

Microsoft put it into their WSL subsystem along X11 and PulseAudio.


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## astyle (Oct 22, 2021)

hardworkingnewbie said:


> Also interesting stuff: Wayland on Windows. https://github.com/microsoft/wslg
> 
> Microsoft put it into their WSL subsystem along X11 and PulseAudio.


This is in fact interesting... using a WSL install on win11 (win10 not supported) to slurp a KDE window out of a VM...


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## qiu3344 (Nov 7, 2021)

My humble sway setup (gruvbox theme):



Terminal: st
Bar: default sway bar
Notifications: mako
Text editor: vis


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