# An operating system (OS) is an interface between hardware and user



## topher (Jan 1, 2010)

*How to automount cd's dvd's thumbdrives*

The handbook has instructions for editing system files for enabling a non-root user to mount a device in a command line interface. 
Typing "su" and entering a password isn't that much extra effort when mounting a device, considering a device must be located with "ls /dev | grep da/acd" then mounted with "mount" command  at a mount point owned by the user.  
I guess what I am saying is what is this obsession with typing everything in a command line to make it happen? I have a KDE 4.3, 8.0-RELEASE installation. When I put a cd or dvd in my drive the Device Notifier (installed on my panel by default) pops up a window with a "Devices Recently Plugged in" list and a label for that optical disc in that list. When I click on that label, dolphin opens with that same label in the "Places" sidepane. So far, so good. 
Why do I get an error when I click on that same label in the dolphin side pane? Why can't I just view the contents of that optical disk when clicking on the same label in the dolphin side panel?   
I have edited  dvefs.conf, sysctl.conf, rc.conf, fstab, PolicyKit.conf. and rebooted enough! What is the problem with having a system that is ready to use after installation. Is it to school us on how it all works, that makes it necessary to edited 6 or 7 sytem files just to mount a optical disk upon insertion? Is it just a tease for the Device notifier to recognize that a disk has been inserted when there is no way of reading it without opening a terminal every time?
I honestly don't get it. Who is the target demographic for this operating system?


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## graudeejs (Jan 1, 2010)

topher said:
			
		

> I honestly don't get it. Who is the target demographic for this operating system?


Us....

We have no idea what kind of problem you have, because you haven't provided any error, no config files etc.... 
It can be everything.....


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## Speedy (Jan 1, 2010)

KDE is something in it's own. The problem you are having has very likely nothing to do with underlying OS. I had KDE in my wife's box. I got sick and tired of it when I tried to switch to new KDE 4.x. I just "upgraded" it to XFCE and all the problems are gone.


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## vivek (Jan 1, 2010)

topher said:
			
		

> I honestly don't get it. Who is the target demographic for this operating system?



Originally, it was for servers in data center. But, now it is suitable for desktop usage too as most open source software works under FreeBSD including X, OO, FF and much more. I don't edit all file just runs su - and type the commands. It is for smart people who wants to take control of their computer including software.


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## Alt (Jan 1, 2010)

> An operating system (OS) is an interface between hardware and user


What is GUI (graphical user interface) then? Its PART of OS ??

I better say that Operating system its framework which gives API for other software to work on current hardware. Your Dolphin can mount CD and dont think which cd is it and how its connected. I dont think what going to happen on BIOS or hardware level, when i do `mount /dev/acd0 /mnt/cdrom` - OS gives me abstraction layer, so its 'interface', not window or icon manager.


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## Beastie (Jan 1, 2010)

topher said:
			
		

> I guess what I am saying is what is this obsession with typing everything in a command line to make it happen?


I edit /etc/devfs.conf for device ownership and permissions (4 lines), create a /etc/devfs.rules for USB and enable it in /etc/rc.conf, and finally enable user mounting in /etc/sysctl.conf (1 line).
I don't use HAL and automounting. I have mount/unmount entries for all types of media in my fvwm menu so I only have to click these and it mounts the disk and opens a file browser automatically. Very simple and easy. Works perfectly well and I never had any problem.
I guess you could do the same with any WM/DE if you disable auto-mounting tools.




			
				topher said:
			
		

> What is the problem with having a system that is ready to use after installation.


1. FreeBSD let's you configure your system as you want it.
2. Enabling user mounting by default is not a good idea security-wise, especially for servers -- the core business of FreeBSD.
3. It may not work with all WM/DE, which are BTW third-party applications not related to FreeBSD in any way.
4. Just like the current situation doesn't satisfy you, what you propose won't satisfy everyone (many of us).




			
				topher said:
			
		

> there is no way of reading it without opening a terminal every time?


Leave the terminal emulator open 24/7. 




			
				topher said:
			
		

> Who is the target demographic for this operating system?


The main target? Servers, definitely.
Another target? All who like to start from the ground up and setup and configure everything exactly as they like it.


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## Speedy (Jan 1, 2010)

One might say OS is the kernel. CLI is definitely an useful interface, often the only one. GUI is useful for desktops indeed.
But lets stop splitting hair.
Automounting is available in several levels. Kernel automount makes using remote NFS volumes convenient, for example. 
If you are using a fully-featured desktop environment then HAL & Co does it for you. Don't blame your OS if it does not work to your liking.
For instance, in XFCE Thunar in daemon mode does automounting, HAL must be enabled. There is also a very easy to use plugin which allows to mount/umount just by a mouse click, no HAL needed.
I never figured out how it works in KDE. I'm not interested in it, either. HAL as a project is discontinued, too.


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## Beastie (Jan 1, 2010)

Speedy said:
			
		

> There is also a very easy to use plugin which allows to mount/umount just by a mouse click, no HAL needed.


That's what I do... without any plugin.


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## oliverh (Jan 1, 2010)

vivek said:
			
		

> Originally, it was for servers in data center. But, now it is suitable for desktop usage too as most open source software works under FreeBSD including X, OO, FF and much more. I don't edit all file just runs su - and type the commands. It is for smart people who wants to take control of their computer including software.



Well, originally it was an operating systems for scientific workstations and servers as UNIX per se. The so-called "Desktop operating system" is marketing-foo from Apple & Microsoft, nothing to worry about.


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## Speedy (Jan 1, 2010)

Beastie said:
			
		

> That's what I do... without any plugin.


 This was just an example, XFCE specific.
In fact, I use OpenBox and do exactly what you do.


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## topher (Jan 1, 2010)

I have tried PCBSD. From its name, I assume PCBSD targets Personal Computer users. PCBSD uses KDE4 as the default desktop and automounts anything that gets inserted.  PCBSD is based on FreeBSD, so I thought that I could install FreeBSD and configure it to do the same. 
I am not adverse to editing system files. My other OS is Arch with openbox as the desktop. I also use a terminal in Arch to gain super user authorization for updating and whatnot. I was born in 1947. Men of my age don't type with more than one finger.   My first computer was a Commodore 128. I bought a 5 1/4 inch floppy of GEOS (Graphical Environment Operating System) and a 2 button mouse and never looked back. 
I know automounting with the soon to be depreciated hal is possible with FreeBSD. I just can't seem to find any documentation on it.  I prefer FreeBSD to PCBSD. I'd like to be able to configure my OS the way I like it.  I have actually been able to automount USB devices by adding a PROC entry to fstab and editing PolicyKit.conf to allow me to mount removable devices. I'd like to be able to do the same for optical drives. If I insert an audio cd into my computer, I don't think I should have to then give my computerinstructions  to access that audio cd.


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## topher (Jan 1, 2010)

Alt said:
			
		

> What is GUI (graphical user interface) then? Its PART of OS ??
> 
> I better say that Operating system its framework which gives API for other software to work on current hardware. Your Dolphin can mount CD and dont think which cd is it and how its connected. I dont think what going to happen on BIOS or hardware level, when i do `mount /dev/acd0 /mnt/cdrom` - OS gives me abstraction layer, so its 'interface', not window or icon manager.



http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS349&q=operating+system&btnG=Google+Search&aq=o&oq=&aqi=


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## Speedy (Jan 1, 2010)

> Men of my age don't type with more than one finger.


Right, here's where autocompletion becomes handy. TAB in bash and ^D for root. 
Regarding KDE, it's a bastard. I for one have no regard for a DE which does not read system conf files. (I learned new KDE ignores xorg.conf when it's present, do not know what else, I kicked it from my household.) :\


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## oliverh (Jan 1, 2010)

topher said:
			
		

> http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS349&q=operating+system&btnG=Google+Search&aq=o&oq=&aqi=



Well you've got your 'interface' it's called FreeBSD, an UNIX derivative. Now it's up to you to establish the connection with the interface.

Or to give you a short answer to your initial question:

>What is the problem with having a system that is ready to use after installation. Is it to school us on how it all works, that makes it necessary to edited 6 or 7 sytem files just to mount a optical disk upon insertion?


No! It is to please a variety of users. You can _build_ almost anything you like with FreeBSD. But _you_ have to do it, if you want the ease of use go PCBSD, if you wan't something different choose maybe some Linux-distro. There are enough possibilities in the world of FOSS.


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## topher (Jan 1, 2010)

Unfortunately KDE is where the bulk of new development in FreeBSD seems to be right now. I don't like it either, but I'd rather be able to have access to KDE's apps than run a WM that is better suited to Linux than FreeBSD.


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## topher (Jan 1, 2010)

I think I'm begining to understand the lack of documention for automounting with hal in FreeBSD. Nobody wants to but me! This would also explain the total absence of any actual help in the replies to my post. So I guess I'm on my own.
I boot 4 OS's on my computer: FreeBSD, Arch, OpenSolaris and Haiku. I can automount to my hearts content with 3 of these. I want to make that all of them.  If I am successful, I will post  how I did it, that is, if anyone's interested.


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## Speedy (Jan 1, 2010)

You can have KDE apps without KDE. Some supporting libraries will be pulled in of course. Don't know what bulk development you are talking about. KDE is not FreeBSD. I's getting ported to FreeBSD, yes. But it's still not FreeBSD.


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## topher (Jan 1, 2010)

Speedy said:
			
		

> You can have KDE apps without KDE. Some supporting libraries will be pulled in of course. Don't know what bulk development you are talking about. KDE is not FreeBSD. I's getting ported to FreeBSD, yes. But it's still not FreeBSD.



Its not Linux or OpenSolaris either. So I guess I'm missing the point, besides that you hate KDE and love FreeBSD. The bulk development I'm referring to is the number of new KDE apps available in the FreeBSD ports, is larger than say the number of new GNOMEapps.


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## Speedy (Jan 1, 2010)

Well, KDE is a stand-alone project. Not sure, but it may run even on MS Windows.
There are lots of GUI apps that just require GTK or QT. Not Gnome or KDE.


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## Dru (Jan 1, 2010)

Geez...what is it with people installing FreeBSD, and griping today.

Works great here, I guess my reply would be GFY.


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## topher (Jan 1, 2010)

Dru said:
			
		

> Geez...what is it with people installing FreeBSD, and griping today.
> 
> Works great here, I guess my reply would be GFY.



Thank you for your reply. What does "GFY" mean?


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## Dru (Jan 1, 2010)

Good Fresh Yogurt


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## topher (Jan 1, 2010)

Dru said:
			
		

> Good Fresh Yogurt


It sounds like you've had to explain this acronym before. Do you often reply to threads just to tell members to "GFY"?


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## Speedy (Jan 1, 2010)

Good For You	
Government Fiscal Year	
Go Find Yourself (polite form)	
Graphitic Filament Yarn


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## DutchDaemon (Jan 1, 2010)

Play nice everyone, or I'll close this thread and you can all go FOAD. Ok?
(that's Fly Off And Disco)


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## DutchDaemon (Jan 2, 2010)

Can we agree it's not you, and simply move on? In different directions?


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## chalbersma (Jan 2, 2010)

Oh Snap!

But seriously if you're looking for a KDE + FreeBSD experience that's centered for the desktop PC-BSD is what you're looking for.

FreeBSD is for people who want or need to be able to do anything with their system and don't mind putting in a little mental stretching to get things to work just like they like them.  That being said, it's my desktop system.


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## topher (Jan 2, 2010)

DutchDaemon said:
			
		

> Can we agree it's not you, and simply move on? In different directions?



Sorry about my last post. I thought it was in the Multimedia thread. 

Yes and with my sincere apologies for posting my rant here.


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## DutchDaemon (Jan 2, 2010)

It's not 'my forum', it belongs to and serves the FreeBSD community in a constructive way. And I echo chalbersma's words. You will have to put in some effort and climb a learning curve. If you want everything handed to you on a platter, I guess it neeeds a Kubuntu ISO burnt on it.


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## topher (Jan 2, 2010)

My other OS is Arch. I don't need anything handed to me. As far as a learning curve for me to climb is concerned I've been coding since 1975. "Your" forum has yet to serve me in a constructive way. In the best case, I've had the Handbook read to me. In the worst case I've told to "GF" myself . 
I am now mounting optical disks without opening a terminal. When I have finished tweaking this method for automounting, I will post it in this forum as a "Howto" so it can serve the community in a constructive way.


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## DutchDaemon (Jan 2, 2010)

Thank you for volunteering to make a HowTo. 

As far as I can see you came to FreeBSD with the wrong expectations, and I can see attempts by people to rectifiy your views, e.g. about KDE being an integral part of FreeBSD (or the other way around), whereas they are totally separate things, and will always be. _You_ will have to perform the integration.

FreeBSD is a _base OS_, with everything else _added_ to it, which is where _you_ come in. You don't come in pushing buttons and moving sliders, you actually put the buttons and sliders in _yourself_. And you can do that in a few dozen different ways, none of which are prescribed, holy, or 'the only way'. Some find that distressing, others enjoy the sense of total freedom this gives them. You decide. Unfortunately, that also means responsibility, as is the case with any freedom. 

It requires a certain mindset to work with FreeBSD, and it requires the occasional person wandering in and complaining about everything, to totally readjust their expectations, or move on. There is no middle ground. There's no real point in making remarks about KDE or ArchLinux (FreeBSD is neither, and it does not aspire to be), and how FreeBSD 'fails'. Your _expectations_ fail. Adjust your expectations or your choice of OS.

You will have to configure a lot yourself. You will need to use the CLI a lot. You will have to alter ports, configuration files, and options. You may use one, two, or fifteen desktop environments and window managers, all at the same time. Or not a single one. Your choice, your responsibility. The OS is there, and it works.

That's exactly why a majority of its users use it: _they_ run the OS and everything on top of it, the OS doesn't run _them_, obscuring everything behind a pretty GUI that makes _everyone_ 'an average user' in the long run.

This is not a sermon, this is how I see FreeBSD. And it is also why I think you feel you're not being helped. But you are. Tough love may be more constructive than you think. We've had quite a few people round here who needed a reality check and a major expectation readjustment. Most of them now love FreeBSD. You will too. (I won't kid you: some people left, disgusted, dismayed or disappointed; I even had to ban one for constantly demanding help with turning FreeBSD into something it is not, and never will be; those cases are rare)

Good luck.

P.S. I merged the two separate threads.
P.P.S. I don't approve of GFY-style replies, but I don't mind a healthy dose of RTFM, as documentation is one of FreeBSD's strongest points


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## sixtydoses (Jan 2, 2010)

Nice one, Dutch. Well said.


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## topher (Jan 2, 2010)

http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=9944

From the Arch Linux wiki:
Arch provides a minimal environment upon installation, (no GUI), compiled for i686/x86-64 architectures. Arch is lightweight, flexible, simple and aims to be very UNIX-like. Its design philosophy and implementation make it easy to extend and mold into whatever kind of system you're building- from a minimalist console machine to the most grandiose and feature rich desktop environments available. Rather than tearing out unneeded and unwanted packages, Arch offers the power user the ability to build up from a minimal foundation without any defaults chosen for them. It is the user who decides what Arch Linux will be.

Sound familiar?


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## jjthomas (Jan 2, 2010)

> Who is the target demographic for this operating system?
I didnâ€™t know it had one.  I find FreeBSD easier then the first PC I built from a kit in 1978.  It is not a simple as XP.  

I find that FreeBSD is not a throw in a disk and boot OS.  It requires planning, configuring, tuning, etc.  I remember my first Linux installation and and my first kernel rebuild, I sweated bullets.  I just installed FreeBSD on two computers and right after the installation completed, I changed and compiled a new kernel.  Iâ€™ve spent the next couple weeks installing ports.  I just found portmaster, it rocks!!!

Iâ€™ve burnt an image of the FreeBSD handbook into my monitor screen.  Iâ€™ve been able to fine 90% of my solutions going through the handbook.  The rest was either google or just figuring it out myself.

FreeBSD is not for everyone, it isnâ€™t for everything.  I still have a DAW based on Vista, Falcon4  runs on the same computer but under XP.  I have Slackware with GSB running on my laptop for kmail. (That may become a FreeBSD computer shortly)

As far as current standards go, it kinda stands out on it own.  Itâ€™s not Linux, itâ€™s not Windows.  Itâ€™s just FreeBSD with what you configure it for.  In my case I will have a server with jails for setting a web site, and testing; the other computer will be a Multimedia workstation.  The Multimedia stuff may, or may not, work out.  If it does not, Iâ€™ll be doing something under Linux.  That does not mean that BSD sucks, it just means that I found something more suited for what I need.

-JJ


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## topher (Jan 2, 2010)

Also from the Arch Linux wiki:
FreeBSD 
Both Arch and FreeBSD offer software which can be obtained using binaries or compiled using 'ports' systems. Both share a very similar init system. FreeBSD boasts that it is more of a system designed as a whole, compared to GNU/Linux distros, with each application 'ported' over to FreeBSD and made sure to work in the process. Both use /etc/rc.conf as a main configuration file. The FreeBSD license is generally more protective of the coder, compared to the GPL, which in contrast favors protection of the code itself. Arch is released under the GPL. In FreeBSD, like Arch, decisions are delegated to you, the power user. This may be the most interesting comparison to Arch since it goes head-to-head in package modernity and has a somewhat sizable, smart, active, no-nonsense community. Both systems share many similarities and FreeBSD users will generally feel quite comfortable with most aspects of Arch.


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## DutchDaemon (Jan 2, 2010)

However sparse, terse, spartan or old-skool Gentoo or Arch may be or try to become, they are _not_ a unified, centrally developed and maintained  operating system, they are an external kernel with GNU and other GPL tools added on in an attempt to make them into some whole. They are not FreeBSD. Every attempt at comparison or drawing parallels will stand in the way of you becoming versed in FreeBSD's unified, co-developed kernel/userland world. We can go on and on about this, but unless you embrace and learn FreeBSD as an entirely separate operating system in its own right instead of as a 'Linux-like distro which should basically do the same things in the same way', you will bump your head over and over again. The FreeBSD kernel is not (and is not like) the Linux kernel. FreeBSD's userland is not (and for the most part is not like) GNU's tools and utilities. The designs and philosophies show vast differences. There are more people who said "Yeah, but if I do <this> in Linux, it works, but not in FreeBSD .." than I care to shake a stick at. See the sticky in General, especially this link. Slightly dated, but the best rundown of the fundamental differences out there. I'll step off here; have to make these posts way too often


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## Dru (Jan 2, 2010)

topher said:
			
		

> It sounds like you've had to explain this acronym before. Do you often reply to threads just to tell members to "GFY"?



Not typically, but when someone is arrogant enough to try and tell a OS forum what an OS should be, complain about stuff they dont understand, then after they start go get a handle of a little bit of it, they act like theyre going to write some superior how to, to explain it to all the simple minded people who originally didnt even know what an OS is supposed to be, I only find it fitting.

Twice now this thread has caught me when I wake up, which probably isnt the best time for me to post, as Im generally not a morning person, but its disgusting, and if you spent as much time studying, compared to complaining, referencing other OS's, or just telling everyone as you think it should be, you would probably be even further along.

I came from an all Windows background myself, and have been using FreeBSD since I joined, it works great here, and Ive been a GUI tard for many years, atleast you have some experience of Linux's behind you, though not the same, I would expect you to be more use to actually having to use a CLI.


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## topher (Jan 2, 2010)

Dru said:
			
		

> Not typically, but when someone is arrogant enough to try and tell a OS forum what an OS should be, complain about stuff they dont understand, then after they start go get a handle of a little bit of it, they act like theyre going to write some superior how to, to explain it to all the simple minded people who originally didnt even know what an OS is supposed to be, I only find it fitting.



I think one of the purposes of this forum is to help other members. When I asked for help I was rebuked. I could have been a lot more humble about it, I admit, and I deserved a hostile reaction. 
When I figured out how to fix my own problem and said that I would post it in the howto section, I was thanked by the Moderator for volunteering to do so. So I did. I hope it helps arrogant psuedo-superior people like myself who don't know how to ask for help without making everyone feel bad about it. I hope it also helps the "simple-minded" who don't know what an OS is even though they have already installed FreeBSD and configured it to use runlevel 5.
My references to my other OS, Arch were intended to show that I am on board with the whole "configure it yourself" thing, not to suggest that I know how to use FreeBSD because I already know how to use Arch. 
I have to say that I'm feeling a lot of anger here, I think some of it directed at other "outsiders" from other OS's and forums and some of it, deservedly, at me. I would like to thank everyone who has responded, though, like DutchDaemon said "Tough love may be more constructive than you think"
In closing, I apologize for souring anyone's morning, wasting anyone's time, and hope remain an active member.


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## Dru (Jan 2, 2010)

topher, I apologize also. I probably did come off a bit harsh.


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## DutchDaemon (Jan 3, 2010)

Group hug.

Closed.


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