# Stable and Testing Releases for FreeBSD?



## Spartrekus (Jul 15, 2019)

Hello,

One possible good thing of Linux is that there are for instance Stable, Testing and Unstable, which allows the user to pick up his flavor.
The stable is older but it is tested, and it might work, likely.

There are many bugs:
11.x does not boot for all machines.
12.x is regularly broken and it is not booting on all notebooks.
13.x does not boot either and it is likely to be more broken than 12.x

This can be discussed it if it is really a good thing. I personally think that it can help users to have their system working.
Once you wipe off, the PC - fresh reinstall it, then you can discover bugs or issues during the course of the time.

Example, no X11 on FreeBSD 12.0, because of a Bug occuring.








						X - no screens found - error
					

Hi, I'm new to FreeBSD.  I have been searching the forum, and googled, but haven't found an answer to this question.  I have a HP EliteBook 850, 14" screen.  Installing Xorg seems a bit tricky.  I have installed Xorg, dbus (and enabled it in /etc/rc.conf), a windowmanager (dwm) and edited my...




					forums.freebsd.org
				




The important thing is to rely on nothing - maybe just the terminal, to have the system running.
Luckily there is the base that runs well.

However during the course of time, kernel.txz can be modified and after some time, you can get an issue with your hardware.
Sometimes there are even bugs occurring on PKG.

This is normal and expected.

So let's discuss if you like flavor : stable and testing.

Yours sincerely


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## SirDice (Jul 15, 2019)

Ports have nothing to do with the version of the OS, all versions use the exact same ports tree. 



Spartrekus said:


> Example, no X11 on FreeBSD 12.0, because of a Bug occuring.


Funny, I have a fully functional 12.0 with Xorg running. The issue you are referring to actually has nothing to with your argument, it's just a failure to configure things properly.

Why is FreeBSD not (more) like ....


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## malavon (Jul 15, 2019)

SirDice said:


> Funny, I have a fully functional 12.0 with Xorg running. The issue you are referring to actually has nothing to with your argument, it's just a failure to configure things properly.


I'll back SirDice's statement just for the sake of debunking what I'd call continuous slander. Been running 12.0 since release, never had any issues with X.org or anything else for that matter (except for a few ports that no longer compiled).
Typing this on Firefox, running under Plasma 5 and X.org.
Then again, I'm actually using FreeBSD and loving it instead of trying to paint it in a bad light to dissuade new users from trying it...


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## drhowarddrfine (Jul 15, 2019)

Spartrekus said:


> One possible good thing of Linux is that there are for instance Stable, Testing and Unstable


So exactly the same thing as FreeBSD.

Another garbage thread Spartrekus .


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## SirDice (Jul 15, 2019)

Spartrekus said:


> One possible good thing of Linux is that there are for instance Stable, Testing and Unstable, which allows the user to pick up his flavor.


We have -RELEASE (stable), -STABLE (testing) and -CURRENT (unstable; development).


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## Spartrekus (Jul 15, 2019)

SirDice said:


> We have -RELEASE (stable), -STABLE (testing) and -CURRENT (unstable; development).



Thank you for your reminder.

I know the existence of the three versions, aka. https://www.freebsd.org/where.html
You can close the thread if you want, since there are those 3.

Actually, I think that there are users with difficulties running their system, even if RELEASE STABLE AND CURRENT are there.
The thing is actually since Testing can change and it has constantly changing packages, during the time, regularly, it could make it rather unstable.
That's why today STABLE can work but tomorrow it might be broken like this. It happens.
As it is called Testing - testing is good, because it can break anytime.

It is actually not easy to make it stable because of all great number of different machines / hardware's.

Today stable (testing) has no X, occurring do to some possibilities maybe or not whatever bug. You can call it with another better wording, to match the reported user issue. That's reality.

Actually, after testing it on several types of notebooks and hardwares,  why not that it could be called:

oldstable    11.x  (limited hardware support - might not work on all hardware's)
stable         12.x  (today's hardware support)
testing        13.x


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## SirDice (Jul 15, 2019)

Spartrekus said:


> Actually, I think that there are users with difficulties running their system, even if RELEASE STABLE AND CURRENT are there.


Most of the time those issues are caused by new users not realizing they need to configure things before they'll work. 



Spartrekus said:


> Today stable (testing) has no X,


Wrong.


```
dice@williscorto:~ % uname -a
FreeBSD williscorto.dicelan.home 12.0-STABLE FreeBSD 12.0-STABLE r349289 GENERIC  amd64
dice@williscorto:~ % ps -ax | grep X
  934  -  S      146:19.06 /usr/local/bin/X -nolisten tcp vt09 -auth /var/run/slim.auth (Xorg)
47785  0  S+       0:00.00 grep X
```



Spartrekus said:


> occurring do to some possibilities maybe or not whatever bug.


Not understanding how things work or having the wrong expectations is not a bug.


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## Lamia (Jul 15, 2019)

I'm not sure you just expect Xorg to work out of the blue on installing it. You may need a login manager like Slim just as you will need a desktop manager. 

Xorg works on FreeBSD 12 like any other versions regardless of being stable, release or current. You're having trouble with building or installing the package on your choice branch. 

And for the three branches, they are self-explanatory and good as they are.


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## SirDice (Jul 15, 2019)

If you're looking for a FreeBSD with an out-of-the-box GUI I would suggest having a look at TrueOS or GhostBSD. 

On FreeBSD expect that nothing is installed by default and _everything_ needs to be configured.


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## shkhln (Jul 15, 2019)

There is apparently some issue with xf86-video-vesa and libpciaccess 0.14.



SirDice said:


> I would suggest having a look at TrueOS or GhostBSD.



Now I want to see Spartrekus troll their place… Might be entertaining.


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## SirDice (Jul 15, 2019)

shkhln said:


> There is apparently some issue with xf86-video-vesa and libpciaccess 0.14.


I haven't bumped into that. But that's probably because I don't use the vesa(4) driver anywhere.


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## Spartrekus (Jul 15, 2019)

shkhln said:


> There is apparently some issue with xf86-video-vesa and libpciaccess 0.14.
> 
> 
> 
> Now I want to see Spartrekus troll their place… Might be entertaining.



Stability of FreeBSD is serious stuff really. Because there are quite similar questions and issues, it was necessary to start a discussion about stability and releases. Even if 1-2 users have issues with less advanced configuration.

We care about issues of others here.

Since _vesa_ or (alt...) there it is important that it could work. I dont matter much of X11, but this thread is dedicated to new FreeBSD users - whiling to discover and to use FreeBSD.


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## SirDice (Jul 15, 2019)

You're forgetting a minor, but important, detail. This issue is with a *third party application*. As such it has nothing to do with the stability of FreeBSD itself. 

FreeBSD is not a Red Hat, Canonical or similar company. Those companies actually have dozens, if not hundreds, of developers doing nothing but back-porting fixes into their distribution. FreeBSD doesn't have those. What we do have is the exact same source as was written by the original developer(s) and that code is used pretty much verbatim.


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## JLAIP (Jul 17, 2019)

Just want to report that Spartrekus's pkg12x.tar.gz *DID* fix the "no screens found" issue on the Inspiron 8100. It is once again running X and xfce (I just need to get an nvidia driver installed to enable higher resolutions and the laptop will be back to where it was before this "no screens found" issue began last week).


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## Spartrekus (Jul 17, 2019)

SirDice said:


> Funny, I have a fully functional 12.0 with Xorg running. The issue you are referring to actually has nothing to with your argument, it's just a failure to configure things properly.


I understand that it is a lot of work to keep all those architectures for 11.x + 12.x testing + 13.x dev. + virtual machines, ...+ + + +  --... ... 
Maybe to have only stable and testing. 

It seems that there are users, as stated just above, with issues and a broken 12.x testing.

It would be great if there would be at least one "stable" release that works (a single partition with both efi or legacy support + x11 + twm or even just xfce maybe).
We need only one not-broken that works.

I cannot make a tarball with bug fixes very often or every week.

thank you for understanding.

Feel free to discuss.


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## JLAIP (Jul 17, 2019)

SirDice said:


> Not understanding how things work or having the wrong expectations is not a bug.



SirDice, with all respect, when an OS, which has been working fine for several months on unchanged hardware, suddenly stops working, I think you've got to consider the POSSIBILITY that there could be a problem with the OS (or one of the components packaged with it).

I'd be the first to admit that my Unix skills, today, are limited (and yours are obviously extensive....my compliments!), so I cannot say you're wrong. However, I have been installing FreeBSD for 20+ years on many PCs--laptops, desktops and servers--and while I may lack advanced BSD development/administrator skills, I do know how to perform a standard install and I know when an install--that I have performed multiple times on the same laptop--has produced a different result. This "no screens found" error is one of those cases. And to automatically dismiss a problem being reported by multiple users as "pilot error" is, I believe, a mistake....especially, when another forum member is able to produce a functional workaround within a day.

Again, in the end, you may very well be proven correct. But, until then, I think it only fair to be open-minded to other possibilities.


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## drhowarddrfine (Jul 17, 2019)

JLAIP Spartrekus is a well-known troll who, after something over a year over constant posting about things he should have learned on day one, apparently has not crossed the line of getting banned while irritating the hell out of the rest of us as he runs his threads as long as he can while agreeing with people who try to help and, then, arguing points to keep his threads alive.

That he irritates most of us should be good enough to ban him. It's the reason I try to ignore any thread he starts or posts in and one of the reasons he degrades this forum overall. I'm getting the impression and the hope that he is reaching the limits of the mods patience.


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## shkhln (Jul 17, 2019)

JLAIP said:


> And to automatically dismiss a problem being reported by multiple users as "pilot error" is, I believe, a mistake....especially, when another forum member is able to produce a functional workaround within a day.



The thread started by severino was indeed about a simple configuration error. Then it was hijacked by meine, you and especially Spartrekus, who is fixed on proving that his issue is caused by xproto package and ignores any attempts to point him in the right direction.


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## ralphbsz (Jul 17, 2019)

JLAIP said:


> SirDice, with all respect, when an OS, which has been working fine for several months on unchanged hardware, suddenly stops working, I think you've got to consider the POSSIBILITY that there could be a problem with the OS (or one of the components packaged with it).



Do you have any evidence that the OS stopped working?

From your posts in the "no screens found" thread, I can see that on your machine one of the X / GUI / windowing packages failed. But those are packages, not the OS. The OS is what you get in the base. And I have not yet seen evidence that any part of base has failed in 12.x yet, in particular not in 12-RELEASE.

There are lots of packages that don't work, or that are "go-stay-go" (that's Hawaiian pidgin for "work intermittently"). If that annoys you, take it up with the maintainer of the package that is giving you trouble. But please don't generalize it to "the OS".
Let me repeat myself to be 110% clear: In the case of FreeBSD, X windows or a GUI is not part of the base OS.


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## JLAIP (Jul 17, 2019)

ralphbsz said:


> From your posts in the "no screens found" thread, I can see that on your machine one of the X / GUI / windowing packages failed. But those are packages, not the OS.



ralphbsz, you make a valid point, but I am aware of this. Here's my original comment: "I think you've got to consider the POSSIBILITY that there could be a problem with the OS *(or one of the components packaged with it)*."

My goal in returning to the forum after a dozen or so years is not to complain, it's to get a problem solved that appeared out-of-nowhere on a laptop that's been running xfce on 12 for several months without any issues. It's irrelevant to me which part of the FreeBSD package is the cause of the "no screens found" error, I just want to get the problem fixed. And considering that nothing changed in the hardware -and- that Spartrekus's pkg12x mostly fixed the problem (it appears to eliminate the error until installation of ANY of the recommended GeForce4 440 Go nvidia video drivers that came with the Dec 2018 RELEASE of 12), that tells me the source of the problem lies somewhere within the 12 iso. But I could be wrong.

Re Spartrekus: I don't know the guy other than from the help (and fix, which he volunteered the time to do) he's provided. I'm just being honest (not looking to argue), it seems wrong to to criticize another member for: 1) offering help; and 2) providing a fix when nothing else worked. But, again, I don't know the guy, so I could be wrong.


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## JLAIP (Jul 17, 2019)

drhowarddrfine said:


> JLAIP Spartrekus is a well-known troll who, after something over a year over constant posting about things he should have learned on day one, apparently has not crossed the line of getting banned while irritating the hell out of the rest of us as he runs his threads as long as he can while agreeing with people who try to help and, then, arguing points to keep his threads alive.
> That he irritates most of us should be good enough to ban him. It's the reason I try to ignore any thread he starts or posts in and one of the reasons he degrades this forum overall. I'm getting the impression and the hope that he is reaching the limits of the mods patience.



Again, I don't know Spartrekus, so you may very well be right. However, he may also be a guy who simply thinks-outside-the-box and swims against [popular] current when he thinks he sees something that others don't. I've been there myself. Again, because I don't know any of you, I'm just posing an possible alternative, not criticizing anyone.


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## shkhln (Jul 17, 2019)

JLAIP, are you being obtuse on purpose? Your (and Spartrekus) issue has already been reported as PR 239065, which also has very clear and concise workaround instructions.


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## JLAIP (Jul 17, 2019)

shkhln said:


> The thread started by severino was indeed about a simple configuration error. Then it was hijacked by meine, you and especially Spartrekus, who is fixed on proving that his issue is caused by xproto package and ignores any attempts to point him in the right direction.



Can you suggest a fix for the "no screens found" error I'm suddenly getting on my laptop?
I spent a number of days and many hours trying every "SOLVED" solution I could find here and elsewhere. And, so far, the only thing that actually worked, even if only until an NVidia driver's installed, came from Spartrekus (who, being quite the "troll", has further offered to mod his mod for me).


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## SirDice (Jul 17, 2019)

JLAIP said:


> However, he may also be a guy who simply thinks-outside-the-box and swims against [popular] current when he thinks he sees something that others don't.


In this case it's the Dunning-Kruger effect unfortunately.


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## JLAIP (Jul 17, 2019)

shkhln said:


> JLAIP, are you being obtuse on a purpose? Your (and Spartrekus) issue has already been reported as PR 239065, which also has very clear and concise workaround instructions.



I've been through PR 239065 and nothing there helped. Is there something specific mentioned there that will fix the "no screens found" error that suddenly occurred on my Inspiron 8100 laptop that's been running X, xfce and 12 for several months without any issues? If that's too "obtuse", I guess I'm outta luck then.


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## JLAIP (Jul 17, 2019)

SirDice said:


> In this case it's the Dunning-Kruger effect unfortunately.



You're probably right, but the guy demonstrating the Dunning-Kruger effect has also come up with a fix (that worked) for me. Power to the crackpots.


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## shkhln (Jul 17, 2019)

JLAIP said:


> I've been through PR 239065 and nothing there helped. Is there something specific mentioned there



Per https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=239065#c2:

```
cd /usr/ports/devel/libpciaccess
svn update -r438045
make clean
make reinstall
```

Don't even try to claim this is somehow obscure or difficult.


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## JLAIP (Jul 17, 2019)

shkhln said:


> Per https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=239065#c2:
> 
> ```
> cd /usr/ports/devel/libpciaccess
> ...



Didn't work.


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## SirDice (Jul 17, 2019)

JLAIP said:


> Didn't work.


I know you're new to this and that's fine, but we need a bit more information than "it doesn't work". What didn't work? Checking out the revision? Building the port? Or does Xorg still fail? Remember, we can't see what you did. Or what's on your screen. We're good but we're not clairvoyant.


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## JLAIP (Jul 17, 2019)

SirDice said:


> I know you're new to this and that's fine, but we need a bit more information than "it doesn't work". What didn't work? Checking out the revision? Building the port? Or does Xorg still fail? Remember, we can't see what you did. Or what's on your screen. We're good but we're not clairvoyant.



Fair enough.
I've described the specific issue, the hardware, what I did/tried along with requested files and screenshots *here*.
If there's anything further you need/want in an effort to solve this issue, just ask.


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## SirDice (Jul 17, 2019)

JLAIP said:


> I've described the specific issue, the hardware, what I did/tried along with requested files and screenshots *here*.
> If there's anything further you need/want in an effort to solve this issue, just ask.


Excellent. Lets all continue this issue there too. 

I'm going to close this thread. It has gotten wildly off course and has nothing to do with the thread topic any more.


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