# Is there any brand in the hardware market that has free certification to install FreeBSD and free software?



## teo (Aug 2, 2020)

Is there a brand in the hardware market that is freely certified to install FreeBSD and the system you want? Today, laptops are a mobile working tool.


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## ralphbsz (Aug 2, 2020)

Explain what you mean by "certified". Explain what you mean by "install". And what does "and the system you want" mean? 
I would think that nearly any mainstream x86 laptop today would be able to install FreeBSD and use it in CLI mode. Support fo GUI features (including things like trackpads and sleep/resume/...) can be iffy.

I know of very few systems that are certified to install FreeBSD and come pre-installed: iXsystems sells servers and storage appliances with FreeBSD or a derivative such as FreeNAS, the major cloud providers (Amazon, Google, Microsoft) will rent you a virtual machine that comes installed with FreeBSD, and there are a few smaller hosting providers that do. In the laptop market, I'm no aware of any.


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## mark_j (Aug 2, 2020)

teo said:


> Is there a brand in the hardware market that is freely certified to install FreeBSD and the system you want? Today, laptops are a mobile working tool.


No. Though I think you have a point & it would be fine if the foundation selected a partner laptop manufacturer who has full hardware support by Freebsd, hopefully enjoining them to help with device support. Linux has it (sort of by the fsf, anyway).
To your point the closest I've got is Lenovo and yet there's still issues/compromises.


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## ralphbsz (Aug 2, 2020)

mark_j said:


> Though I think you have a point & it would be fine if the foundation selected a partner laptop manufacturer who has full hardware support by Freebsd, ...


It would be nice. For example, you can buy laptops with Linux pre-installed from both Lenovo and Dell (and I presume many smaller companies too), and that includes support: if something breaks (like you do an official update of the OS and X doesn't display correctly), you call them on the phone, and can expect some help. (Yes, I know support is not great in general, but at least it's something).

But consider this: Linux is a tiny share of the desktop market (probably around 1...2%), and FreeBSD is at least one or two orders of magnitude below that. If for example Lenovo started offering laptops with FreeBSD pre-installed and supported, they would probably sell hundreds of them (please look at the internet meme "there are dozens of us", it's funny). That's definitely not worth the effort for them; it would take many months to set this up, create the part numbers, write the playbooks for support, do all the legal work to get the licenses squared away, train support people, and so on. At a profit of maybe $10...100 per laptop, this is a ridiculous proposition.



> hopefully enjoining them to help with device support.


Warning: This is about english style, not content: The verb "to enjoin" is usually used in legal speak, in the sense of "to force someone to do something using an injunction". To enjoin someone has become quite a nasty thing to do. I don't think you mean that. What would be good if the FreeBSD foundation joined the vendor to help with device support, and there I agree with you.

Here is something that could work, if the FreeBSD foundation were interested in furthering desktop use: select a reference hardware platform (for example Lenovo model ABC or Dell model XYZ), publicize that on the web site, and work just a tiny bit with the vendor (for example making sure that the model number is written correctly, and link to the correct page where one an order that specific hardware from the vendor). This would requires only minimal work on the part of the vendor, and it might already help a little bit.


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## mark_j (Aug 3, 2020)

There is more than one meaning of enjoin. I used it as intended.


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## teo (Aug 3, 2020)

ralphbsz said:


> It would be nice. For example, you can buy laptops with Linux pre-installed from both Lenovo and Dell (and I presume many smaller companies too), and that includes support: if something breaks (like you do an official update of the OS and X doesn't display correctly), you call them on the phone, and can expect some help. (Yes, I know support is not great in general, but at least it's something).
> 
> But consider this: Linux is a tiny share of the desktop market (probably around 1...2%), and FreeBSD is at least one or two orders of magnitude below that. If for example Lenovo started offering laptops with FreeBSD pre-installed and supported, they would probably sell hundreds of them (please look at the internet meme "there are dozens of us", it's funny).




The "certifiability" of the hardware depends on the producers themselves, on opening their patents!! precisely now when Microsoft wants to corner Linux.

Is the certification for equipment of Linux real or is it a "fool's errand" to attract potential customers? Usually they sell them with Windows pre-installed, someone from marketing decides to look for a different customer niche, they take that same equipment, they install Ubuntu, Fedora or whatever and. Voilá! certified for Linux.


For example, from Lenovo what I've heard is that if you break a hardware component in some models you can't replace it with another component, only the ones sold by Lenovo. They have chips in them that don't allow you to put other brands. In a forum there were users who complained about that. On a software level I understand that Lenovo is asking for certification and someone is giving it to them or not.


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