# Systemd license plate



## ralphbsz (Nov 15, 2019)

This morning, on the way to work, I saw a car with a California vanity license plate that read SYSTEMD. For privacy reasons, I won't tell you what exact kind of car, or exactly when and where, but it was a reasonably nice car (not pretentious or outrageous, no Ferrari or Bentley, but also no beat-up Corolla), and in a reasonably nice residential area (neither Atherton or Piedmont, but also not the Tenderloin).

It's possible that it has nothing to do with the Linux daemon of that name, but is some other computer-related word. For example, I've seen a Tesla with a license plate that read ENOFUEL, which is funny.


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## Deleted member 30996 (Nov 15, 2019)

I saw a vehicle today with UNIX-like license plates but using due discretion cannot disclose details of the driver, distribution, device driven or Daemon depicted.


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## Cthulhux (Nov 15, 2019)

I wonder if the car crashed already.


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## xtremae (Nov 16, 2019)

ralphbsz said:


> For privacy reasons, I won't tell you what exact kind of car, or exactly when and where


You are doing the right thing! Disclosing this man's whereabouts might put his life in grave danger.


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## tedbell (Nov 16, 2019)

Cthulhux said:


> I wonder if the car crashed already.



*badum ching*


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## Crivens (Nov 16, 2019)

... or it does strange things the driver did not anticipate.


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## gpw928 (Nov 16, 2019)

...and takes over all electronic functions located in the garage and the house.


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## Crivens (Nov 16, 2019)

Noone knows what it will do next, or in what order - but boy it does it faaaast.


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## tedbell (Nov 16, 2019)

Keeps crashing because stop jobs take 1m30seconds.


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## gpw928 (Nov 16, 2019)

Looks like it's coming to a real crunch time for Debian.  The future of Devuan is on the line, right now, as the continued support for sysvinit gets increasingly difficult.

For me, Ted Ts'o cut through:





> Yep, and this is the "embrace, extend, and extinguish" phenomenom of systemd which caused so much fear and loathing.  Lennart is the Ballmer of the Linux infrastructure world.


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## gpw928 (Dec 9, 2019)

Voting has opened at the Debian project on the future of init systems and systemd.


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## Crivens (Dec 9, 2019)

I kind of miss the "dump it and clean up" option, but heck - this looks like a good mud wrestling setup.


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## chrbr (Dec 9, 2019)

It is a little bit of "divide and conquer". The options are

eat sh**
eat sh** with a cherry on top
eat sh** with an apple on top
and so on. With enough options of 2...SOME-NUMBER. No one will ask why to eat sh** one just likes strawberries. And they are not so many. At the end the flies will win.


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## cynwulf (Dec 10, 2019)

As ever with that "project", there are too many options which involve eating "sh**" and too few which don't...

"F" is so obviously being positioned to win, that it's not even funny...


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## Vadim_Mkk (Dec 19, 2019)

In attached file - how  systemd begun to intruding  to Linux wordl in "Alien" style.
Oh coarse, for servers and desktop very critical boot time of BlueTouth driver 
How RH and Canonical broke through the knee all users by force shoving them against their systemd  - It's reminds  me  about the persistent captain - robot from the "Alien-1" movie - Allien (systemd)  by any means must be delivered (installed)  to the Earth (Linux) 
Ralphbsz, may be saw the car of Lennart Poettering?
I think that person how a cockroach will survive anywhere, even in  IBM...


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## Vadim_Mkk (Dec 19, 2019)

I discouraged  violent tolerance to systemd 


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> ...


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## ralphbsz (Dec 19, 2019)

Vadim_Mkk said:


> Ralphbsz, may be saw the car of Lennart Poettering?


I don't know where he lives. I suspect (without evidence pro or con) that he does not live in Silicon Valley (where I am), because I would likely have heard about him or run into him. So this is a little bit unlikely.

By the way, to be 100% clear, I don't hate Linux (I use it all the time, both at work and at home), I don't even hate systemd (having set up a service for it once, and keeping maintaining it, I can see its upsides, but also its downsides, which in my mind outweigh it). I prefer using FreeBSD where I have a choice, but that doesn't mean that Linux is bad or evil. I really like the way Ted Ts'o described the situation in the post that was quoted above, and I highly respect his opinions, detailed knowledge, and level headedness. I think this quote from him sums up the situation nicely:


> And unless we are willing to force package maintainers to drop packages or to do the work to add the backwards compatibility, which I think very much goes against the Debian ethos, especially given the extent of systemd's "embrace and extend" strategy, I don't think we have a choice but acknowledge reality and accept that some packages may simply be incompatible with alternative init systems.
> 
> This doesn't make me terribly happy, but there are a lot of things don't make me happy about our world today.  The current occupant in the US White House, for example.  However, not facing reality isn't really going to help the situation.


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## CraigHB (Dec 20, 2019)

Those systemd jokes you guys made crack me up.  Anyway they're going to do what they're going to do.  Fortunately FreeBSD gives me a choice.  I've had to choke down so much garbage with the corporate products I use I'm certainly not going to do it with open source.  Since I'm just a hobbyist user I don't have to. 

Linux has tried so hard to be a Windows replacement all these years they're finally getting what they want with all the garbage that comes with it (mainly corporate influence making corporate decisions).


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## Crivens (Dec 20, 2019)

Yes, makes you wonder wether windows is as "complex" as it is because of planning, incompetence or if that kind of comes with the terrain...


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## CraigHB (Dec 20, 2019)

To me it's kind of like lawyer speak or doctor speak.  I honestly think they make that stuff as complicated as possible to justify their jobs.


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## ralphbsz (Dec 20, 2019)

It comes with the terrain. If you write software that has to do many thing (be all things to all people), it will end up complex. Ultimately, I think of it from a software engineering point of view in the good old waterfall method: if the requirements are voluminous, the design and solution will be voluminous too. Simple software exists, and solves simple problem. An operating system that can be used over a wide range of applications is not a simple problem.

Now, does that mean that systemd is well engineering, structured sensibly, implemented with good craftsmanship, and thought through? Hell no. Lennart is not even capable of doing something like "software engineering", much less planning or structuring. He's a hacker (which is a compliment for a particularly good programmer). Unfortunately, this productivity is high enough, and his interaction abusive enough, that his badly designed artifact is taking over the Linux world.


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## CraigHB (Dec 21, 2019)

I still see a lot of needless complexity in many products.  Speaking from a user's perspective I think a good engineer can accomplish complex tasks in a clear and logical way.  More often you see needless complexity in products which translates to bad engineering in my mind.

I think engineering in general has taken a turn for the worse in recent decades.  It's become so cost oriented that things are driven to be done in the cheapest way rather than the best way.  It's pretty frustrating to see things go downhill like that.  I blame it on the bean counters and competition from foreign markets.  If someone sets the bar lower everyone has to do the same to compete and the bar just keeps getting set lower.

Of course open source free software doesn't have to compete and it's the best opportunity to see good engineering.  Though in this case it's mostly volunteer work so it's a matter of time rather than money.  When the corporations get involved then the money thing comes into play.  Linux is heavily subsidized by corporate interest now so I think that's where it's going.  Hopefully FreeBSD can avoid that kind of thing.


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## ralphbsz (Dec 22, 2019)

CraigHB said:


> Of course open source free software doesn't have to compete and it's the best opportunity to see good engineering.  Though in this case it's mostly volunteer work so it's a matter of time rather than money.


Nearly all open source developers in the Linux world (and many other open source products) are employed by corporations, such as RedHat, IBM, Intel, Google, Oracle, and so on. Most of the open source code is NOT written by amateur volunteers, and is done for corporations that are interested in money.

For example, Lennart is employed by Red Hat (now a part of IBM), and as far as I know has been for several years. I don't want to speculate what Red Hat's or IBM's interest in systemd is.


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## Vadim_Mkk (Jan 10, 2020)

Debian Voting Information / 2019 /
General Resolution: Init systems and systemd -




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						General Resolution: Init systems and systemd
					





					www.debian.org
				



The winners
 Option 2 "B: Systemd but we support exploring alternatives"
Votes decide  doesnt't put all eggs in  the one basket


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