# Laptop recommendation for FreeBSD



## mefizto (Jun 10, 2010)

Greetings all,

I was wondering if someone could recommend a 14-15 inch laptop for indented install of FreeBSD 8.0-8.1.  The primary use will be:

1. Word processing and text editing.
2. CAD, I am currently using AutoCAD (2D graphics is sufficient at least for now). But I may switch to 3D in the future - Solidworks? so please take this into account when considering processor and graphics card.
3. Internet applications - web-surfing, e-mail.
4. Movie replay - HD, connection to external display required.
5. No games.

Because I spent most of the time doing word-processing and CAD drawing, the quality of the screen, preferably 16:10 aspect ratio, is very important, as is the quality of the keyboard; I would also prefer a separate numeric keys if possible.

But most important is compatibility with FreeBSD.

Kindest regards,

M


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## zeiz (Jun 10, 2010)

IMO Lenovo is the best. Best experience.
Bad experience: Sony VAIO.


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## mefizto (Jun 10, 2010)

Dear zeiz,

thank you for the reply.  Any particular model?

Kindest regards,

M


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## zeiz (Jun 10, 2010)

Up to you and your pocket I would choose with Nvidia video and not Intel wifi but ... it depends... this is "forever question". Take a look at this:
http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=12896&highlight=laptop+freebsd
and you may want to search more this forum - many threads.
There is another very good forum: http://www.daemonforums.org/index.php
There are also Lenovo forums.


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## wblock@ (Jun 11, 2010)

I avoid nVidia video due to the lack of open programming information and a good open driver.
Acer notebooks have surprised me with their quality, Toshiba with terrible ACPI implementations.

With any recent notebook you are likely to run into proprietary hardware that may not have FreeBSD drivers.  http://laptop.bsdgroup.de/freebsd/ has FreeBSD information for a lot of notebooks.

If you're planning on dual-booting with Windows anyway, consider running FreeBSD in VirtualBox and letting Windows be the host.


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## dennylin93 (Jun 11, 2010)

wblock said:
			
		

> If you're planning on dual-booting with Windows anyway, consider running FreeBSD in VirtualBox and letting Windows be the host.



How about the other way around?


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## wblock@ (Jun 11, 2010)

dennylin93 said:
			
		

> How about the other way around?



If you have FreeBSD native drivers, a native install is nice.  But a lot of laptops come with proprietary hardware that doesn't have native FreeBSD drivers: card readers, wireless, even Ethernet.

By running FreeBSD as a VM on Windows, the Windows drivers for all the proprietary hardware work transparently.

The downside is you still have Windows, with all the antivirus, antispyware, patch Tuesday and other continuous updating and security concerns.  Not as big a deal if the plan was to dual-boot anyway.


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## zeiz (Jun 11, 2010)

The question was BSD laptop rather than winlaptop to run somehow FreeBSD on it cherishing own windoholism.


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## wblock@ (Jun 11, 2010)

zeiz said:
			
		

> The question was BSD laptop rather than winlaptop to run somehow FreeBSD on it cherishing own windoholism.



"If you want to join the People's Front Of FreeBSD, you have to really hate Windows."
"I do!"
"Oh yeah, how much?"
"A lot!"

Sorry, didn't realize it was a test of ideological purity.  Maybe we could call it a Proprietary Hardware Compatibility Layer(TM).

If you've got to have Windows for AutoCAD or Solidworks (and I think you do), you could also let it give you proprietary hardware drivers, suspend, and better battery life than FreeBSD.  Or you could put Windows in a VM, where you'll still have all the headaches of Windows but few of the already-scarce benefits.  Depends on your objective.


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## mefizto (Jun 11, 2010)

Greetings all,

thank you all for the well meant suggestions.  Regarding the OS, zeiz is correct, I would like to use FreeBSD as the OS, with as much hardware as possible supported, hence my inquiry.  

From the application side, I need only Word and AutoCAD, both of them I have confirmed to work sufficiently well (for my purposes) under Wine.

Kindest regards,

M


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## mefizto (Jun 11, 2010)

Dear wblock,

your moniker is just like a command in AutoCAD .

I have had recently several major problems with XP on the laptop despite all the precautions you have enumerated.  And since I have run FreeBSD on desktop for some years, I thought that it may be possible to do so on a laptop also.  Consequently, I do not see this as a matter of ideology, but rather an attempt to avoid the headaches you mentioned.

Kindest regards,

M


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## zeiz (Jun 11, 2010)

wblock said:
			
		

> Sorry, didn't realize it was a test of ideological purity.


Come on...take it easy, I didn't mean that deep. Unfortunately if we work we need to communicate with winworld that is much greater...so far thus we are forced to use Windows.
I am just against "windoze dependence" aka "all my world depend on MS Windows" aka tobacco addiction: I want to quit but I just cannot, that's what I called "windoholism". 
I used to reinstall Windows every month, do I have to reinstall it again along with vbox/vmware and then FreeBSD itself?
I do have Windows on dual boot (NIC disabled) and I do have it in vbox where it runs just perfectly (like a beast in the cage) So I do use Windows but not does Windows use me


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## wblock@ (Jun 11, 2010)

mefizto said:
			
		

> Dear wblock,
> 
> your moniker is just like a command in AutoCAD .



I was first, though.:\



> I have had recently several major problems with XP on the laptop despite all the precautions you have enumerated.  And since I have run FreeBSD on desktop for some years, I thought that it may be possible to do so on a laptop also.  Consequently, I do not see this as a matter of ideology, but rather an attempt to avoid the headaches you mentioned.



Understood, and I saw your post as entirely practical.  Going back to that, I would suggest going the other way around: find a laptop you like and then use the net to check it for FreeBSD driver compatibility.

Display and keyboard are the two things you're really stuck with on a laptop, which is why I tell people to go look at the local office store.  After that...

Best case: it's all supported.
Second best case: the hardware you care about is supported.

Wireless and Ethernet are often problem areas.  There's NDIS to use crappy wireless cards, or they can be replaced, sometimes easily.  Ethernet might not matter to you, but if it does there are USB and PC/Express card options.

Video can be a big deal, and if you're not already familiar with the Radeon/nVidia driver issues, now would be a good time.  The future of Intel video on FreeBSD is not clear right now, so might be best to avoid those.  They're not very fast compared to the others, anyway.

Other stuff--depends on what matters to you.  Card readers?  Maybe you don't care.  Same for power management or suspend; if you use it like a desktop, no big deal.


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## mefizto (Jun 13, 2010)

Dear wblock,

thank you for the reply.  The laptop will be used primarily for the (business related) tasks indicated, so I do not need (functionality of) ports like camera, card reader, and the like.  Power management is an issue, but since I am not going to buy i7 or anything like that, I do not see that as a show-stopper.

However, since it will be used for CAD, and for DVD replay, the video is important.  I am confused about the Radeon/nVidia driver issues. I have used both manufacturers' card in my desktop and had no problems.  Could you point me to the right direction, please?

Kindest regards,

M


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## zeiz (Jun 13, 2010)

http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=14678
and many others. Simply search this forum for "radeon".
Search for "nvidia" brings notably less problem posts.


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## mefizto (Jun 13, 2010)

Thank you zeiz.

M


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## wblock@ (Jun 13, 2010)

mefizto said:
			
		

> However, since it will be used for CAD, and for DVD replay, the video is important.  I am confused about the Radeon/nVidia driver issues. I have used both manufacturers' card in my desktop and had no problems.  Could you point me to the right direction, please?



nVidia has not released programming information for their cards.  Instead, they released a binary blob driver.  Some see this as an advantage, a supported driver from the manfacturer.  But it leaves you at the mercy of the vendor.  If you want to run a version of an operating system they don't support, well... you can't.  If the driver doesn't support some feature you need, you have to convince the vendor to add it.

There is an open driver for nVidia, but it's very limited by the authors having to reverse-engineer it.

AMD/ATI, Intel, and others have released programming information for their video cards, allowing the creation of open source drivers.  Because the information is available, those drivers can be updated and maintained and ported, without having to depend on the vendor's good will or interest in a platform.

There are advantages and disadvantages either way, but it's important to know about the situation before you buy.


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## kpedersen (Jun 13, 2010)

wblock said:
			
		

> The future of Intel video on FreeBSD is not clear right now, so might be best to avoid those.  They're not very fast compared to the others, anyway.



!!?

Is something bad going to happen with regards to intel/freebsd gfx support?

Intel cards seem to be the only ones that actually work well so far.

Unfortunately vesa doesn't seem to support widescreen so I am heavily reliant on these damn things.


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## wblock@ (Jun 13, 2010)

kpedersen said:
			
		

> !!?
> 
> Is something bad going to happen with regards to intel/freebsd gfx support?



The latest version of the Intel drivers want KMS, where the (Linux) kernel sets the graphics modes.  FreeBSD doesn't have KMS at present.  I don't know if anyone is working on that.



> Intel cards seem to be the only ones that actually work well so far.



I've had equal success with Intel and Radeon in notebooks and netbooks; FreeBSD8, xorg-7.4 and 7.5, four Radeon, two Intel, they all worked.  Haven't tried the newest Intel Poulsbo or Radeon 4200 yet.



> Unfortunately vesa doesn't seem to support widescreen so I am heavily reliant on these damn things.



vesa came out long before widescreen.  It's more of a last resort than anything else.


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## zeiz (Jun 13, 2010)

kpedersen said:
			
		

> Unfortunately vesa doesn't seem to support widescreen so I am heavily reliant on these damn things.


Approx. 2 years ago I tried newborn 8-CURRENT with wide screen SyncMaster 2253bw (1680x1050). I have onboard nvidia chip (GeForce 8200) and "nv" driver doesn't work with it. At that time NVidia didn't support -CURRENT and I had no choice but use "vesa" and insert Option  *modeline* .... in Section "Monitor" (xorg.conf) then everything worked excellent without fancy visual effects though.
To get modeline data *gtf* utility could be used:

```
$ gtf 1680 1050 60
   # 1680x1050 @ 60.00 Hz (GTF) hsync: 65.22 kHz; pclk: 147.14 MHz
  Modeline "1680x1050_60.00"  147.14  1680 1784 1968 2256  1050 1051 1054 1087  -HSync +Vsync
```
Nowadays NVidia runs on 9-CURRENT problem free on both i386 and amd64(beta but runs great with all the fancy visual effects).
Vesa is also much better now and works out of box with no modeline required anymore though it still may be useful in case of some special monitor.


> Intel cards seem to be the only ones that actually work well so far


I have Intel's video on wife's laptop: most poor video ever seen though I don't have more experience with Intel video besides heeelp!!! threads on this forum


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## kpedersen (Jun 13, 2010)

kpedersen said:
			
		

> Intel cards seem to be the only ones that actually work well so far.



Ok, perhaps I should substitute "well" with "generally more easily" 

Every modeline utility I have used so far simply states that my "monitor returned no data" but I will give *gtf* a go!

cheers


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## wblock@ (Jun 15, 2010)

kpedersen said:
			
		

> Ok, perhaps I should substitute "well" with "generally more easily"
> 
> Every modeline utility I have used so far simply states that my "monitor returned no data" but I will give *gtf* a go!



Wait--do you actually need modelines?  Newer xorg mostly shouldn't.  Set resolution in the xorg.conf Screen section, Display subsection with Modes and/or Virtual.

If you need to force a particular refresh rate, set that as the only VertRefresh in the Monitor section.  LCDs mostly prefer 60 Hz.


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## kpedersen (Jun 21, 2010)

FreeBSD 8.0-Release seemingly needs modelines to be added for the vesa driver to work with a widescreen display (although I have yet to even get that working)

Since upgrading from 8.0-RELEASE to 8.1-BETA, I no longer need to manually add a vertrefresh or horizsync to get my proper resolution (on my non-widescreen thinkpad t42) with vesa.

When using drivers other than vesa, I never seem to need to add vertrefresh, horizsync, modelines (or anything else). It is only when these drivers have trouble and I resort to vesa, that I have these problems.


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## kdemidofff (Jun 24, 2010)

Bad experience: Asus EEE


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