# Pleasant Fonts



## hruodr (Mar 25, 2022)

I just put in firefox the following:

Serif: Adobe Times
Sans-serif: Adobe Helvetica
Monospace: Adobe Courier

Just so, try and error, and not tried to the end.
It is not advertisement for Adobe, but my eyes are now considerably relaxed.

Very important was also to disable antialiased fonts, see:









						How to disable antialiasing fonts?
					

I have Mozilla Firefox 93.0 and I do not want the antialiasing fonts. How to disable it? Thanks!




					forums.freebsd.org
				




What is your experience with fonts?


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## tuxador (Mar 25, 2022)

I like plasma 5 default fonts for display:
Noto Sans - noto Serif- hack
For Emacs it's adobe source code
For print (latex and *LuaMetaTex*) *libertinus* is my favourite font family (formerly Linux Libertine and Linux Biolinum) .
When I have trouble with printing such fonts I convert my text to adobe Garamond pro and Avenir Next (sans font).


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## hruodr (Mar 25, 2022)

tuxador said:


> For Emacs it's adobe source code



I have in Emacs with X11 the default and it is nice:



> name (opened by): -adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--17-120-100-100-m-100-iso8859-1
> full name: -adobe-courier-medium-r-normal--17-120-100-100-m-100-iso8859-1
> size: 17
> height: 15
> ...



See:



			https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Fonts.html
		




			EmacsWiki: Set Fonts


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## drhowarddrfine (Mar 25, 2022)

How are you getting Adobe fonts on your system?

Talking about pleasant fonts is like asking, "What's your favorite color?".


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## hruodr (Mar 25, 2022)

drhowarddrfine said:


> How are you getting Adobe fonts on your system?



Firefox offers them on "settings". Emacs has adobe courier on default. You can try `xfontsel`.

I am not an expert on fonts. Perhaps a theme for the forum.



drhowarddrfine said:


> Talking about pleasant fonts is like asking, "What's your favorite color?".



Definitively *no*. Or in part yes. Would you work on a text editor with red fonts and green background?

As an issue of aesthetics there is a lot of subjectivity, but there is sure objective criteria of what is pleasant.

Most fonts, the blurr anti-aliased fonts, are an insult for my eyes. They are by far much worse than the old German fonts (Fraktur, Schwabacher, Gothic), then with the later at least you get accustomed after reading an amout of text, with the former you get extremely tired after reading a little of text.


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## drhowarddrfine (Mar 25, 2022)

Color has nothing to do with font selection. And you can find all kinds of fonts that don't anti-alias. But then you are left with a selection of fonts that you may like and I don't which, as I said, now all boils down to personal preference.

I'm waiting for this thread to degenerate into a long list of personal preference suggestions for fonts.


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## shkhln (Mar 25, 2022)

More hot takes? Grayscale anti-aliasing doesn't make anything particularly blurry. What you want is a high PPI display in combination with adequate room lighting and proper brightness/contrast settings.


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## hruodr (Mar 25, 2022)

shkhln said:


> What you want is a high PPI display


No, I like my display, it worked till now. It is Windows that demands always more expensive hardware.



drhowarddrfine said:


> I'm waiting for this thread to degenerate into a long list of personal preference suggestions for fonts.



I hope no. I hope people understand the problem. It is a real problem. And the intention of my posting was 
to propose a possible solution.


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## shkhln (Mar 25, 2022)

Hey, I'm not a window.


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## hruodr (Mar 25, 2022)

tuxador said:


> I like plasma 5 default fonts for display:
> Noto Sans - noto Serif- hack


Chromium does not offer adobe, but these noto.

Noto are horrible, perhaps because I disabled antialiased.

Chromium has as standard DejaVU: serif, sans, sans mono.

Wikipedia looks good / mediocre. Google search horrible. Other pages also horrible.

Perhaps the difference is due to the size, but perhaps the horrible pages select own fonts,
I do not know how to disable that (firefox offer to disable it and use only the customized fonts).

An I have now Idea why firefox, chromium and xfontsel offer different sets of fonts.


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## mer (Mar 25, 2022)

One thing this thread and others like it point out a couple of important things to me:
Fonts are very personal.  What I like you may hate; that's ok.
Your specific environment monitor, lighting, your age all feed into "the best font".


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## drhowarddrfine (Mar 25, 2022)

"Blurred" fonts are anti-aliased fonts and they are made that way on purpose. It's not a problem. It's an intentional design by the creator. If they don't present well to you then you need to make another choice.  an intentional


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## hruodr (Mar 25, 2022)

mer said:


> Fonts are very personal. What I like you may hate; that's ok.


No, mer. I insist there is something objective. Of course it may depend on the environment: display resolution,
anti-aliasing disabled, etc.

But if fonts appear in parts very dark as were bold, in parts not so dark, and that is what I described as
horrible above, then it is something objective that it is not OK.

Fact: with FreeBSD you do not get anymore a pleasant X11 out of the box for any computer and display.

And perhaps there are people that are not so sensible to these problems.


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## hruodr (Mar 25, 2022)

drhowarddrfine said:


> "Blurred" fonts are anti-aliased fonts and they are made that way on purpose. It's not a problem. It's an intentional design by the creator. If they don't present well to you then you need to make another choice. an intentional


You can google for: anti-aliased strain. You will see that it is not only for me a problem. A real problem. Well,
a problem on purpose. As I said, an insult to my eyes.


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## mer (Mar 25, 2022)

hruodr said:


> No, mer. I insist there is something objective.


If one is limited to "good or bad" fonts.  Within that there are can be a range of different fonts, then personal preference comes in.  Droid Sans vs DejaVu Sans vs Noto Sans.  Objectively I consider them all to be good based on my definition of good:  readable at the sizes I need on the equipment I use.  But I think Noto is better than Droid;  I don't hate Droid, but there may be some people that do.

That's all I was saying.

I think we'd all probably agree that objectively, Comic Sans is a bad font, regardless of equipment.


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## hruodr (Mar 26, 2022)

drhowarddrfine said:


> How are you getting Adobe fonts on your system?


Good question.

Chrome does not offer adobe fonts, no times, no helvetica, no courier.

It seems it takes fonts from /usr/local/share/fonts. There you find times, helvetica and courier
under the subdirectories 100dpi, 75dpi, but compressed.

From where do get `firefox` the fonts? Perhaps `firefox` reads compressed files, but chromium not?

The answer seems to be yes, try: `fc-list | grep Adobe | less`


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## grahamperrin@ (Mar 26, 2022)

grahamperrin said:


> … the troublesome `font-family` is:
> 
> *Helvetica*
> …





grahamperrin said:


> … This morning I *removed* the 70-yes-bitmaps.conf symbolic link from /usr/local/etc/fonts/conf.d, `reboot -r`, things remain good, touch wood.
> 
> FreeBSD Forums and e.g. <https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/pull/590> appear OK when site fonts are allowed ☑





hruodr said:


> … Sans-serif: Adobe Helvetica … What is your experience with fonts?



If I _prefer_ Adobe Helvetica in Firefox, then it becomes necessary to recreate the symlink. 


```
% file /usr/local/etc/fonts/conf.d/70-no-bitmaps.conf 
/usr/local/etc/fonts/conf.d/70-no-bitmaps.conf: symbolic link to ../conf.avail/70-no-bitmaps.conf
%
```

I prefer the Firefox defaults, and sanserif for proportional.


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## hruodr (Mar 26, 2022)

grahamperrin said:


> If I _prefer_ Adobe Helvetica in Firefox, then it becomes necessary to recreate the symlink.


I have the simlink. Firefox is OK. The problem is chromium.


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## grahamperrin@ (Mar 27, 2022)

hruodr said:


> chromium.



FYI <https://old.reddit.com/r/chrome/comments/6fbeh4/-/i29dyw7/>


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## drhowarddrfine (Mar 27, 2022)

I won't read back over all this but want to point out, again, that Helvetica, and probably others listed above, are not free fonts and not installed on systems or browsers by default so might not even be available.


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## VladiBG (Mar 27, 2022)

FreshPorts -- x11-fonts/webfonts: TrueType core fonts for the Web
					

This is a collection of high quality and free to use TrueType fonts created by Monotype and Microsoft Typography.  It consists of the following families:        Times New Roman, Courier New, Georgia, Trebuchet MS, Comic       Sans MS Arial, Arial Black, Verdana, Andale Mono, Impact...




					www.freshports.org


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## grahamperrin@ (Mar 27, 2022)

VladiBG said:


> <https://www.freshports.org/x11-fonts/webfonts/>



Nice, however there's no Helvetica in the collection: 



Spoiler: pkg info --list x11-fonts/webfonts





```
% pkg info --list x11-fonts/webfonts
webfonts-0.30_14:
        /usr/local/share/doc/webfonts/LICENSE
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/andalemo.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/arial.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/arialbd.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/arialbi.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/ariali.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/ariblk.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/comic.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/comicbd.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/cour.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/courbd.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/courbi.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/couri.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/georgia.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/georgiab.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/georgiai.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/georgiaz.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/impact.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/times.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/timesbd.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/timesbi.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/timesi.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/trebuc.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/trebucbd.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/trebucbi.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/trebucit.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/verdana.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/verdanab.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/verdanai.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/verdanaz.ttf
        /usr/local/share/fonts/webfonts/webdings.ttf
        /usr/local/share/licenses/webfonts-0.30_14/EULA
        /usr/local/share/licenses/webfonts-0.30_14/LICENSE
        /usr/local/share/licenses/webfonts-0.30_14/catalog.mk
%
```






hruodr said:


> …
> 
> Serif: Adobe Times
> Sans-serif: Adobe Helvetica
> ...




```
% pkg info -x adobe
font-adobe-100dpi-1.0.3_4
font-adobe-75dpi-1.0.3_4
font-adobe-utopia-100dpi-1.0.4_4
font-adobe-utopia-75dpi-1.0.4_4
font-adobe-utopia-type1-1.0.4_4
%
```

`pkg info --list font-adobe-100dpi` <https://dpaste.com/HRNFDBT4J>


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## hruodr (Mar 27, 2022)

drhowarddrfine said:


> I won't read back over all this but want to point out, again, that Helvetica, and probably others listed above, are not free fonts and not installed on systems or browsers by default so might not even be available.



For license look at the file here:



			https://github.com/freedesktop/xorg-font-adobe-75dpi/blob/master/helvB24.bdf
		


Or perhaps just on /usr/local/share/fonts/75dpi and 100dpi


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## grahamperrin@ (Mar 27, 2022)

hruodr said:


> … Or perhaps just on /usr/local/share/fonts/75dpi and 100dpi



From the paste in my previous post:

/usr/local/share/licenses/font-adobe-100dpi-1.0.3_4/LICENSE
/usr/local/share/licenses/font-adobe-100dpi-1.0.3_4/MIT


```
% cat /usr/local/share/licenses/font-adobe-100dpi-1.0.3_4/LICENSE
This package has a single license: MIT (MIT license / X11 license).
% cat /usr/local/share/licenses/font-adobe-100dpi-1.0.3_4/MIT
Copyright 1984-1989, 1994 Adobe Systems Incorporated.
Copyright 1988, 1994 Digital Equipment Corporation.

Adobe is a trademark of Adobe Systems Incorporated which may be
registered in certain jurisdictions.
Permission to use these trademarks is hereby granted only in
association with the images described in this file.

Permission to use, copy, modify, distribute and sell this software
and its documentation for any purpose and without fee is hereby
granted, provided that the above copyright notices appear in all
copies and that both those copyright notices and this permission
notice appear in supporting documentation, and that the names of
Adobe Systems and Digital Equipment Corporation not be used in
advertising or publicity pertaining to distribution of the software
without specific, written prior permission.  Adobe Systems and
Digital Equipment Corporation make no representations about the
suitability of this software for any purpose.  It is provided "as
is" without express or implied warranty.
%
```


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## Profighost (Mar 27, 2022)

Yeah, Adobe fonts are really nice.
They are a very good first choice if you quickly want select readable fonts without putting much effort in this topic.
I use the courier style for the shell and Vim.
Particulary for the use with a texteditor I only chose fonts where every character can be easily, clearly and undoubtfuly be distinguished from others.
Especially for coding I have no use for fonts where you need always a second closer look to not mix up O and 0, I and l, the brackets or so...
But of course there are many, many other very good fonts. There are also many websites, where you can buy additional fonts (or even get free ones), and maybe a couple of bucks could bring your favorite font on the screen; this just as a hint for you don't need to stick with the ones given by ports or pkg, which already provide way more than enough for the daily use (hard to imagine not find a very good usable one within them.)
As far as I grappled with this topic I daresay FreeBSD and X combined are capable to implement nearly all types of standard font formats - so it's just a question of requirement and effort to chose your perfect fonts. (And how to implement which, where... -> The handbook dedicates this topic not for no reason.)



hruodr said:


> Perhaps a theme for the forum.


_*...LARGE topic. *_

I doubt it would be a good idea to start a discussion about it as a forum's thread, because not every font is suitable for every purpose - which font would be usable _for you_ for what needs....
It also depends on the monitor (pixelshape and space) and the resolution you're using, your position and distance to the screen, if you's wearing glasses... also your monitor's contrast settings make a difference for the viewability/readability of videos/text/...

Besides that there is much more potential for collisions of personal tastes as about proficieny about what it's really all about in the end:
*typesetting, readability of texts*

You may start with fixed size and truetype fonts, which are not the only two categories you only need to distinguish fonts within the aspect of pure technical usage (terminal vs. desktop.)
You're also not done with distinguishing serif from sans-serif fonts. I'll bet at the latest then an emotional argument starts, because most today's users distinguish serif as "old fashioned = yuk!" and sans-serif as "cool, modern = must do", not aware of the fact that the serifs are created to increase readability of large texts, and sans-serif fonts are ment for headlines or narrow column's texts. (Just because anything is done a billion times wrong doesn't make it right.)
Somebody who's reading much is aware of reading longer textes set in sans-serif fonts is way more weary, tidying as reading the same in serif fonts.
Anybody saying "no, that's not true!" is not proving the opposite, but not reading much, really. 

Typesetting including fonts is a real craftmanship developed over centuries, almost destroyed in less than 25 years by wordprocessors (MS Word, LibreOffice Writer, etc).
The user's very first attention and too much attendant effort while working with it is used up into typesetting instead of concentrating on writing the text first and format it _afterwards_, thus lowering both productivity and quality of either.
Plus: MS Word and LibreOffice Writer etc. overstrain users with typesetting possibilties such as hundreds of fonts, sizes, colors.... nobody needs, nobody wants to see.
(Not every writer thinks about his readers. But writing a text for nobody to read is pointless.)
Plus: MS Word and LibreOffice Writer etc. are not even capable of producing a single barely usable typesetting anyhow.
Plus: Most users don't know shit about typesetting at all, but being forced to do it as the very first task at all, even without a single character written yet and without being told anything about typesetting at all... 
Thus ending up in the armageddon of typesetting we observe today.
There actually are publishers not ashamed of themselves trying to sell books written completely in sans-serif without justified margins... un-freakin..!!1!!eleven!!!

...and not a few will disagree while not actually being even aware of what I'm talking about or where the actual problem really is... 

Tip:
You may find Allin Cottrell's essay "Word Processors: Stupid and Inefficient" as pdf if you duckduckgoing4it.
It's really readable and very revealing.

For those who did not recognized it:
I emphasize what hroudr presumably initially ment to say:
"It's a good idea not to stick with the preconfigured fonts but to chose a good readable font, increasing the readability of text."


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## grahamperrin@ (Mar 27, 2022)

From Which Font Should I Use On My Kindle? (2016-07-22): 



> … The quick answer may sound like a lot of setup for an obvious answer:
> 
> *You should use whichever font you want to read at whichever size you prefer.* …
> 
> I learned a lot along the way, including why most e-books don’t have an optimal font, what we lose when a book is translated to digital, why you shouldn’t feel bad for reading in Helvetica …



From Neue to Now: How Helvetica evolved for the 21st century | Monotype.


Adobe Helvetica, regular (Adobe foundry)

Helvetica Now Display, Black (Mono foundry)

Helvetica Now | Monotype.


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## hruodr (Mar 27, 2022)

Of course esthetics plays a role. Compare these old German fonts:









						Fraktur - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				












						Schwabacher - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				












						Textura – Wikipedia
					






					de.wikipedia.org
				




What do you prefer when reading a long text? I prefer the first one, Fraktur, perhaps there is a good
reason that it was the most used one of the three. Schwabacher does not look bad at first, but it makes
me tired. There are TeX fonts for these three:






						CTAN: /tex-archive/fonts/gothic
					






					ctan.org
				




But my problem now is more technical: with my low resolution monitor almost all fonts look horrible.


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## grahamperrin@ (Mar 28, 2022)

hruodr said:


> … What do you prefer when reading a long text? …


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## hruodr (Mar 28, 2022)

Well, the representation in Libreoffice that I see in your text is not completely right, for example the space
between letters. These details play a role on how pleasant is to read. My problem with Schwabacher are
the proportions, they are more quadratic. It is very difficult to find a font that one likes, but in most cases one
gets used, there is no other alternative.


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## grahamperrin@ (Mar 28, 2022)

hruodr said:


> … the space between letters. …



In which application might the spacing appear better? 

I guess it's /usr/local/share/fonts/google-fonts/UnifrakturMaguntia-Book.ttf from x11-fonts/google-fonts.


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## hruodr (Mar 28, 2022)

grahamperrin said:


> In which application might the spacing appear better?


As I remember, the TeX fonts were very good in the details. It is not only spacing, also ligatures an such things.

By the way, the handwriting (Kurrentschrift) is very interesting. Since it does not have these round forms,
but almost only up and down angular forms, it is better for writing faster:









						Kurrent - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## grahamperrin@ (Mar 28, 2022)

(I have no practical use for this … just curious.)


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## hruodr (Mar 28, 2022)

grahamperrin said:


> (I have no practical use for this … just curious.)


I mean the fonts I linked. After installing and running tex on the text. I have no idea what TexWorks do.


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