# Is Microsoft just using its power



## cliedo (Nov 22, 2008)

In Vista when I chose to enable the msn it had an agreement to the 
I agree button that I cannot use any other messenger that is in violation of the contract to the .net network how many others have read that contract?


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## james89 (Nov 22, 2008)

More importantly, who actually follows it?


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## Maledictus (Nov 22, 2008)

Ok, this is the Off-Topic section, but this is really too far off imo.


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## graudeejs (Nov 22, 2008)

how far is to far?
spam is to far.

i haven't read any of MS licences (like i have choice anyway)
besides i user *nix for over 2 years now


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## rliegh (Nov 22, 2008)

james89 said:
			
		

> More importantly, who actually follows it?



More importantly than that -can they actually take you to court over it?


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## cliedo (Nov 22, 2008)

I should have made it more clearer, I am sorry lol, I was thinking about msn 
live messenger, Ive used amsn in the past and use kopete from time to time
but when I read the terms of use license and agreement that was what was written


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## hitest (Nov 24, 2008)

cliedo said:
			
		

> I should have made it more clearer, I am sorry lol, I was thinking about msn
> live messenger, Ive used amsn in the past and use kopete from time to time
> but when I read the terms of use license and agreement that was what was written



Very interesting indeed!  That does sound like typical behaviour from M$, to try to lock-in the end user into their proprietary model.  I've been windows free at home for several years now and happily use xchat on ##freebsd. :beergrin


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## Eponasoft (Nov 27, 2008)

The license only applies if you actually install their software. If you install an alternate program and have never seen their license, you never agreed to their license and therefore are not bound to its conditions. However, even if you agreed to their license and then broke the agreement by using a non-MS product, they would still have to enforce the license, and for that, they will have to drag you into court. I know not any courts who would waste their time with such a frivolous case, and the likelyhood of it being tossed out is great. This is typical Microsoft bully tactic that doesn't actually work in the real world, but the way they write it is adequate enough to scare the average Joe.


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## glaon (Nov 27, 2008)

> i haven't read any of MS licences


And you are happy man - after reading license for win2k my head 	almost exploded!


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## dap (Nov 27, 2008)

According to Andrew Tanenbaum's book "Modern operating systems 2nd edition" the GPL is longer than Windows 2000's license, so... :e


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## graudeejs (Nov 27, 2008)

all those licenses are created by mad ppl.
you fell asleep as soon as you realize how long it is (after reading less than half page)


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## biglaughing (Dec 11, 2008)

MS go hell


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## Coplen (Dec 13, 2008)

rliegh said:
			
		

> More importantly than that -can they actually take you to court over it?



They have money, and companies do the craziest things so it's possible, but probably unlikely.


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## Brandybuck (Dec 13, 2008)

Be realistic about this. Microsoft can't even stop people from using pirated copies of Windows. They're not going to sue people for using WinAmp! Even if they wanted to, they know they would lose the first time they ran across someone not willing to back down.

Don't pretend Microsoft has more power than it has. You have a choice, you are in complete control of your own life. If you don't like Microsoft, don't use their software. It's that simple. Use FreeBSD. Or Linux. Or Mac OSX.


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## DutchDaemon (Dec 14, 2008)

I usually had a Windows XP PC and a FreeBSD server around the house. Now there are two FreeBSD servers and a FreeBSD laptop. I don't hate Microsoft (i.e. I'm not a Linux user), it's just that it has no added value for me any longer. I still wake up every morning.


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## cliedo (Dec 18, 2008)

I have a wife who uses windows, so I have to know how to correct any mistakes which can creep up. I just went through a win98 computer just 
to brush up lol I still eat and sleep fbsd lol  though I still have  to be in real life, I still had the original keycode was amazing just for chits an 
grins


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## zspider (Feb 26, 2013)

I have one Windows 7 laptop, if Microsoft hasn't regained it's sanity by Windows 9, then I'm done, and I won't likely be replacing it with another Windows machine. I don't play too many games anymore, guess I'm just getting old.

I noticed the terms of service for MSN stating that no third party clients were allowed, but nothing has ever happened except that Microsoft quietly updates the protocol to break compatibility. Skype has actually forced people to remove support from their clients, Microsoft now wants to move everyone to Skype and I don't plan on partaking in that.


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## throAU (Feb 27, 2013)

It's their server network, funded by ads served by their client.

So, no, IMHO they are well within their rights to dictate no third party clients.

I doubt they'd sue - they'd just disconnect/disable your account at worst for violation of the EULA.


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## Crivens (Feb 27, 2013)

There are a number of countries where they can not do a damned thing about that.
These shrink-wrap licences, which you only can see _after_ buying the product, are not enforcable here where I live. They simply are not part of the original contract and Microsoft would not want any court near a case where the chances are that they reveive an official "put this licence where...".

That said, it is often interesting to read their writings, and I still have the EULA for hotmail stored somewhere. They had it changed after some heat coming their way, so it may be a document of time.


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## zspider (Feb 28, 2013)

throAU said:
			
		

> It's their server network, funded by ads served by their client.
> 
> So, no, IMHO they are well within their rights to dictate no third party clients.
> 
> I doubt they'd sue - they'd just disconnect/disable your account at worst for violation of the EULA.



And we're well within our rights to not use it, you see I have this little rule, no more proprietary communications clients, which is why I switched to RetroShare and brought over my important contacts. Special thanks to glocke for porting it to FreeBSD.


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## throAU (Feb 28, 2013)

zspider said:
			
		

> ...I have this little rule, no more proprietary communications clients, which is why I switched to RetroShare and brought over my important contacts.



That's kind of irrelevant as to what clients Microsoft allow to connect to Microsoft's network.



			
				Crivens said:
			
		

> There are a number of countries where they can not do a damned thing about that.
> These shrink-wrap licences, which you only can see _after_ buying the product, are not enforcable here where I live.




1.  You didn't buy windows live messenger, or an account for it
2.  They don't need to enforce the EULA even.  They can just disconnect clients from their network as they see fit.  You have no *entitlement *to use their service what so ever.


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## Crivens (Feb 28, 2013)

throAU said:
			
		

> 1.  You didn't buy windows live messenger, or an account for it
> 2.  They don't need to enforce the EULA even.  They can just disconnect clients from their network as they see fit.  You have no *entitlement *to use their service what so ever.



Well, this is going into legal space, where the rules of logic can be warped or suspended. <play x-files title music>

This depends on where I got the copy of said messenger from. When it comes as part of a legitimate Windows-CD, I can buy it. Even if it is only some add-on. I have bought it because it contains that messenger, and I want to use it. When they _then_, after the purchase, try to change the contract (I bought that thing without that restriction), that restriction is void. I did not see it before purchase, I cannot return that product since I already installed and launched it once. Trying to block me using my legally bought SW can bring them into breaking that first contract of purchase, which would entitle me to a refund and compensation for damages/time/efford. A landsh.. lawyer would now say that "this is going to be one interesting case", which is their lingo for "I'll order my new sports car, and you will be the one paying it." 

This is not only for that messenger, but for almost any EULA pushed into your face while installing something. It has already been ruled that these are presented too late, and thus are not binding. Now imagine a Windows-DVD where the complete EULA is printed out and attached at the outside of the case so you can read it all before shelling out the money. And that would only protect them at these sales, not with the pre-installed systems where you would have to have the chance to read each&every EULA for all the added tools.

Bottom line, should this end in court, it would possibly take ages to decide and make some lawyers rich. Much easier to steer clear of them.


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## sossego (Feb 28, 2013)

Crivens said:
			
		

> Much easier to steer clear of them.


Most people would just run over the lawyer and call it a day.


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## drhowarddrfine (Feb 28, 2013)

throAU said:
			
		

> That's kind of irrelevant as to what clients Microsoft allow to connect to Microsoft's network.


I don't understand what elephants have to do with this? Is PETA involved?


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## Crivens (Feb 28, 2013)

I don't think People Eating Tasty Animals has anything to do with this.
BTW, /me is vegetarian 

But here we have some other nugget concerning terms of service...


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## throAU (Mar 1, 2013)

Crivens said:
			
		

> This depends on where I got the copy of said messenger from. When it comes as part of a legitimate Windows-CD, I can buy it.



Yup.

And if you use the actual product you bought, plus its free security/whatever updates, it works   Also, for what it's worth, messenger was not shipped with either Vista or 7, unsure on XP, but XP is out of support for consumer stuff already anyway.  "Windows live" messenger wasn't available in the XP days anyway, so essentially there is no way that you bought it.

Microsoft supporting third party clients on their network = not in any way ever going to happen.  If it works, it works, but Microsoft are not going to support it, and legally you've got no grounds to cry about it.


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