# FreeBSD is too much a a headache for me...



## whaletosh (Mar 8, 2016)

Notice I said for me, nor state that FreeBSD "sucks"

I have tried in vain to get a functional installation of some version of FreeBSD. I have tried FreeBSD, PCBSD, Dragonfly, Midnight, NetBSD, and GhostBSD. I am perfectly capable and willing to use the command line, as I have been doing since my first Commodore 64 computer. I have several years of experience with Linux, OS X, and iRix.

Here is what I want to do:

Install FreeBSD amd64, or a variant of it with a graphical interface.

I tried FreeBSD 10.2, which installed and booted fine. But when I tried to follow the instructions for getting X installed things just didn't work, as in the system would just complain about not being able to find the repository for the pkg(8); even if I tried the port form the local source. Strike one.

I tried PCBSD, which looked like it was installing fine. But when I plugged in my USB wireless adapter the system got broke. It crashed and upon boot up it would hang when trying to initialize the network adapters. Removing the USB wireless adapter with the computer power off made things worse. Strike 2

I tried Dragonfly. I was able to get it installed and configured to have a graphical interface, ONCE. Upon rebooting it stayed at the cli and refused to launch the GUI. Strike 3

I tried NetBSD. It installed, but complained about not being able to find repositories, and missing files. Strike 4

I tried Midnight, same as NetBSD. Strike 5

Finally, I installed GhostBSD with XFCE. It installed and worked great. Until I used Octopkg to install Kicad. All of a sudden, several programs wouldn't launch because of an our dated SQLite. Octopkg would not launch from the menu or a terminal, even with the root account. Running pkg from a CLI only resulted in complaints about missing files and not being able to find repositories. Strike 6

I realize that this is a forum about FreeBSD, and that the other variants have their own forums.  But the common thread amongst all these problems is that what should be a simple, straight forward process isn't. As I stated I can use a CLI to get things installed and running. But only if the instructions in the handbook actually work. If the handbook for FreeBSD states to install Xorg:

```
# cd /usr/ports/x11/xorg
# make install clean
```

OR

`# pkg install xorg`

I cut and pasted the lines into  a shell as root, not including the # of course, and the installation failed almost immediately because of missing files and inability to fetch the files because the repository URL couldn't be resolved. I could understand this I was trying to install an old release, but this happened with FreeBSD 10.2 on a blank hard drive

All of the other attempts were made with new partition tables and partitions, including the boot sector being overwritten.


I also realize that the people who support FreeBSD and the other variants get paid very little if anything for their efforts. Most of them have real jobs, families, friends, other hobbies, etc. So, I can't really complain.

Usually, post like this get responses suggesting to read this or learn that. That the poster should search the forums and internet for solutions (which I did). To install this or configure that. This is precisely  my point; this is too much hassle for me. I wanted to try FreeBSD because I wanted more security than Linux. A brand new installation shouldn't need that much work just get it up and running. I have installed OS X and Linux literally hundreds of times. None of them have been this much work (not that OS X is much of a challenge to get installed).

Thanks for letting vent, I really hoped FreeBSD was going to work out. I know it has for many people, I am just not one of them.


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## cpm@ (Mar 9, 2016)

Hi,

Can you provide us more information related to your issue(s) on FreeBSD? Also we'll need some screen outputs to help you


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## yukiteruamano (Mar 9, 2016)

whaletosh said:


> Install FreeBSD amd64, or a variant of it with a graphical interface.
> 
> I tried FreeBSD 10.2, which installed and booted fine. But when I tried to follow the instructions for getting X installed things just didn't work, as in the system would just complain about not being able to find the repository for the pkg(8); even if I tried the port form the local source. Strike one.



Hi, I'm a newbie in FreeBSD too, I have only two months using FreeBSD 10.2 and use XFCE for my daily tasks and unless that I'm an alien, install FreeBSD for me was not more difficult to install Debian on my machine (using netinstall+apt). If you had some detail to complete the task , it will be mostly a problem for hardware support or failures following the installation process.



whaletosh said:


> I tried PCBSD, which looked like it was installing fine. But when I plugged in my USB wireless adapter the system got broke. It crashed and upon boot up it would hang when trying to initialize the network adapters. Removing the USB wireless adapter with the computer power off made things worse. Strike 2



I don't know PCBSD, but is a derivative from FreeBSD, and  for your experiencies, maybe thats errors are related to a problem with your hardware support. 

¿Are you checked that your hardware is full supported by FreeBSD 10?



whaletosh said:


> I tried Dragonfly. I was able to get it installed and configured to have a graphical interface, ONCE. Upon rebooting it stayed at the cli and refused to launch the GUI. Strike 3
> 
> I tried NetBSD. It installed, but complained about not being able to find repositories, and missing files. Strike 4
> 
> I tried Midnight, same as NetBSD. Strike 5



Sorry, but I smell a pure error of layer 7.



whaletosh said:


> Finally, I installed GhostBSD with XFCE. It installed and worked great. Until I used Octopkg to install Kicad. All of a sudden, several programs wouldn't launch because of an our dated SQLite. Octopkg would not launch from the menu or a terminal, even with the root account. Running pkg from a CLI only resulted in complaints about missing files and not being able to find repositories. Strike 6



I don't know the stability for GhostBSD.



whaletosh said:


> I realize that this is a forum about FreeBSD, and that the other variants have their own forums.  But the common thread amongst all these problems is that what should be a simple, straight forward process isn't. As I stated I can use a CLI to get things installed and running. But only if the instructions in the handbook actually work. If the handbook for FreeBSD states to install Xorg:
> 
> ```
> # cd /usr/ports/x11/xorg
> ...



Have you tried to have an Internet connection? Solving problems of Internet addresses related to the correct network configuration you use, whether wireless or cable. Check that issue first.

In my case, using

`# pkg install xorg`

and not problems. 




whaletosh said:


> All of the other attempts were made with new partition tables and partitions, including the boot sector being overwritten.
> 
> I also realize that the people who support FreeBSD and the other variants get paid very little if anything for their efforts. Most of them have real jobs, families, friends, other hobbies, etc. So, I can't really complain.
> 
> ...



That pay is a reality that is also repeated in Linux, many employees are paid little or nothing, is not a rare thing, but that has not stopped the development and evolution of these systems, since the motivations for contributing they are many and different.


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## drhowarddrfine (Mar 9, 2016)

I don't understand the point of this post. Is this a confessional of his shortcomings? His second attempt, and especially his third, have nothing to do with installing FreeBSD so are off topic here. That people install FreeBSD coming from Linux and Windows and come here to talk about it almost every day shows this is a non-issue. 

whaletosh FreeBSD is a professional operating system for professionals and serious amateurs. Obviously it's not for you.


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## SirDice (Mar 9, 2016)

whaletosh said:


> I tried FreeBSD 10.2, which installed and booted fine. But when I tried to follow the instructions for getting X installed things just didn't work, as in the system would just complain about not being able to find the repository for the pkg(8); even if I tried the port form the local source. Strike one.


This sounds like something as simple as using the wrong DNS settings.


> But the common thread amongst all these problems is that what should be a simple, straight forward process isn't.


No, I'm sorry but the common thread here is that you failed to configure basic networking. 


> I cut and pasted the lines into  a shell as root, not including the # of course, and the installation failed almost immediately because of missing files and inability to fetch the files because the repository URL couldn't be resolved.


Dude, you're going to let something as simple as a DNS setting prevent you from trying FreeBSD? If you really can't fix something as basic as this then I'm afraid I'd have to concur, FreeBSD is not for you.


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## ondra_knezour (Mar 9, 2016)

Somebody who installed OS hundred times should not be bitten by something as trivial as networking misconfiguration. However we can't say what may be the problem until you provide us with more information.

On side note - the DVD installation medium contains some precompiled packages including some desktop environment. If you have problems with installation over network but still want to try and feel the FreeBSD, you may start this way.


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## Dies_Irae (Mar 9, 2016)

whaletosh said:


> I am perfectly capable and willing to use the command line, [...] I have several years of experience with Linux, OS X, and iRix.


From what I have read, I can hardly believe it



whaletosh said:


> the common thread amongst all these problems is that what should be a simple, straight forward process isn't [...]
> I cut and pasted the lines into a shell as root [...]
> this is too much hassle for me [...]
> I wanted more security than Linux [...]
> A brand new installation shouldn't need that much work just get it up and running


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## Deleted member 9563 (Mar 9, 2016)

whaletosh said:


> Usually, post like this get responses suggesting to read this or learn that. That the poster should search the forums and internet for solutions (which I did). To install this or configure that. This is precisely my point; this is too much hassle for me.



Kudos for putting a lot of work into trying. I understand your frustration. It seems to me though that if you have lots of experience installing Linux then you would find very little difficulty here. It might have been easier for you if you had asked for some help at an earlier stage. It's probably just some little thing, perhaps a wrong assumption, which is causing your troubles.


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## Crivens (Mar 9, 2016)

Could it be that his DNS might well be fubared by the router he has? So it might not even be his fault. Some more investigation is certainly in  order. Rightout saying it's his own fault is, IMHO, a bit far fetched.


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## Maxnix (Mar 9, 2016)

whaletosh said:


> I have tried in vain to get a functional installation of some version of FreeBSD. I have tried FreeBSD, PCBSD, Dragonfly, Midnight, NetBSD, and GhostBSD.


Note that DragonflyBSD, MidnightBSD and NetBSD are different OSes from FreeBSD.

Both DragonflyBSD and MidnightBSD are forks, so even if they had something in common with FreeBSD originally, this now is not true anymore.
NetBSD shares its origin with FreeBSD (both descend from 386BSD), but now they are totally different.
So, for problems related to this OSes you should ask on their support channels to get help. They know their creatures better, and can support you better.


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## Oko (Mar 9, 2016)

Maxnix said:


> Note that DragonflyBSD, MidnightBSD and NetBSD are different OSes from FreeBSD.
> 
> Both DragonflyBSD and MidnightBSD are forks, so even if they had something in common with FreeBSD originally, this now is not true anymore.
> NetBSD shares its origin with FreeBSD (both descend from 386BSD), but now they are totally different.
> So, for problems related to this OSes you should ask on their support channels to get help. They know their creatures better, and can support you better.



There is nothing wrong with DragonFlyBSD

```
dfly# uname -a
DragonFly dfly.bagdala2.net 4.4-RELEASE DragonFly v4.4.2-RELEASE #3: Sun Feb 14 21:46:21 EST 2016  root@www.shiningsilence.com:/usr/obj/home/justin/release/4_4/sys/X86_64_GENERIC  x86_64
dfly# 

dfly# ifconfig
re0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
  options=1b<RXCSUM,TXCSUM,VLAN_MTU,VLAN_HWTAGGING>
  inet6 fe80::baae:edff:fe3c:ce35%re0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1
  inet 192.168.3.2 netmask 0xffffff00 broadcast 192.168.3.255
  ether b8:ae:ed:3c:ce:35
  media: Ethernet autoselect (1000baseT <full-duplex>)
  status: active
faith0: flags=8002<BROADCAST,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
lo0: flags=8049<UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST> mtu 16384
  options=3<RXCSUM,TXCSUM>
  inet 127.0.0.1 netmask 0xff000000
  inet6 ::1 prefixlen 128
  inet6 fe80::1%lo0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x3
ppp0: flags=8010<POINTOPOINT,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
sl0: flags=c010<POINTOPOINT,LINK2,MULTICAST> mtu 552
```


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## whaletosh (Mar 9, 2016)

Quoting the first and last lines of my post

"Notice I said for me, nor state that FreeBSD "sucks""
"Thanks for letting vent, I really hoped FreeBSD was going to work out. I know it has for many people, I am just not one of them."

I was trying to state that I was in no way knocking FreeBSD, or the the developers and users of it. I have seen many forums where a poster starts out by being insulting of the software. I am just frustrated at what I thought was going to be an easy installation, as stated on the About FreeBSD page; "Easy to install FreeBSD can be installed from a variety of media including CD-ROM, DVD, or directly over the network using FTP or NFS. All you need are these directions." I followed the instruction on installations exactly. 


"Is this a confessional of his shortcomings?" To a certain degree, yes. I really have installed various operating system, hundreds of times. This includes several times using a cli net install of Linux. I had a lot of learning and frustration when teaching myself the innards of Linux. I guess my shortcoming in this instance is failing to realize there might a greater learning curve than I expected to install FreeBSD. I guess I assumed that my experience Linux would have prepared me better than it did.  I am probably getting a little lazy as well. 


"whaletosh FreeBSD is a professional operating system for professionals and serious amateurs. Obviously it's not for you." Exactly, which is what I thought I stated at the end of my post. I am probably getting a little lazy as well.

I also stated that the developers ad maintainers of FreeBSD work very hard for little or nothing for compensation. This is true for most of the Linux world as well. I was trying to acknowledge all that hard work. I am grateful there are people out there that make it possible for me to use Windows when only absolutely necessary, eg. my USB oscilloscope which only runs under Windows.  

I know that the network configuration is the most likely the problem. I am installing this at my work place during my lunch hour and breaks; our firewall could be to blame. I can't check that as I don't work in the IT department. Most likely the network card is not configured properly, despite setting it correctly during the installation process. But if I can't get the system booted then I can't correct the configuration, one of those chicken/egg scenarios. I could use the live-cd to boot and fix the configuration on the hard disk, but reinstalling is easier. If had the system already up and running using the Live CD would make more sense.

The point of my post was to vent, which I stated.  I thought I made it clear that I wasn't criticizing FreeBSD or anybody connected with it. FreeBSD has a great reputation. It is just not working  FOR ME as easily as I hoped. I can understand attacking a new user who starts off by criticizing FreeBSD. Did I ever once state that FreeBSD is a crappy operating system? Did I ever once state that FreeBSD doesn't work well for anybody? Did I ever state that I expected  the FreeBSD community to spoon feed me the information needed or solve the problems for me? In fact I never asked for help at all. I didn't expect to be attacked, as I was simply stating MY opinion about MY experience with trying to get a BSD system installed. 

For those of you that actually gave some advice, thank you. Here are the specifics of my hardware:

Dell Precision T3500 workstation. The mobo is Intel based with quad core Xeon proccessor, 12 GByte of RAM, a 150 GByte hard drive with Windows 7 on it, a 250 GByte hard drive which is the target drive for the BSD system. The boot loader for the BSD instillation gets installed on the 250 Gbyte hard drive, leaving the boat loader for Windows 7 untouched. I can change the boot disk simply by pressing F12 at start up. The e-net is a Broadcom built into the mobo. I had my reasons for tying a USB wifi adapter, but will leave it out of the equation in the future. The video card is an AMD/ATI Radeon. There isn't anything in the system that is exotic or a no name knock off. 

I am installing from the DVD. I am going to make another attempt. Maybe things will go better the second time around. If they don't then I can return to Linux and make it as secure as I can and still be able to reasonably use it.


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## Crivens (Mar 9, 2016)

... i smell a squid being in the way. Direct network access is most likely not possible. You may as well ask the IT department. If they are worth a tiny bit, they by now already know of your attempts and problems. If they will admit that, is another question.


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## SirDice (Mar 9, 2016)

whaletosh said:


> I know that the network configuration is the most likely the problem. I am installing this at my work place during my lunch hour and breaks; our firewall could be to blame. I can't check that as I don't work in the IT department. Most likely the network card is not configured properly, despite setting it correctly during the installation process. But if I can't get the system booted then I can't correct the configuration, one of those chicken/egg scenarios.


Not having a working network should not prevent FreeBSD from booting. You only mentioned not being able to install ports and packages on FreeBSD. You didn't mention you were unable to boot it in the first place. If you can't boot you obviously can't change settings. But if it does boot it should be fairly easy to diagnose the network. It shouldn't be a reason to reinstall in any case.


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## Maxnix (Mar 9, 2016)

Oko said:


> There is nothing wrong with DragonFlyBSD
> 
> ```
> dfly# uname -a
> ...



Yeah, surely there is nothing wrong. 
I was referring to the fact that DragonFlyBSD internals are different from FreeBSD's ones, being DragonFly born to give FreeBSD 4.x a different direction from the one token for FreeBSD 5.

So even if the GUI problem stated by OP could be a Xorg or DE related problem, asking on DragonFly channels can be more useful.


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## Deleted member 9563 (Mar 9, 2016)

whaletosh said:


> I guess my shortcoming in this instance is failing to realize there might a greater learning curve than I expected to install FreeBSD.


The thing is that it is not hard to install FreeBSD. You are wrong about that. At least for someone who has installed Linux before, there is not a great learning curve. You seem to be stuck on something which has nothing to do with FreeBSD. If you asked for help (and you still can) you are quite capable of getting any of the BSDs to work. My suggestion is that you try to overcome what seems to be a mental block and move on to asking for help. I'm sure you can do it.


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## ronaldlees (Mar 9, 2016)

Nowadays, when people say they have Linux background, that may mean they've installed a recent Ubuntu.  That gives them the same level as my grandma, who can do the Ubuntu install more readily than Windows.  Kidding.

FreeBSD is not hard to install, but it's definitely not a Ubuntu style set-up, especially if the OP is using off-the-track video hardware ...


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## chrbr (Mar 9, 2016)

About 15 years ago the saying was

```
Even a chicken can install Debian. Just keep picking <Enter> all the time.
```
I have experienced this on FreeBSD, too when trying ZFS-on-root on a spare PC with ECC RAM I got from a colleague . Nothing exciting, it just worked. No new playground. For my use case it is perfect for backup. 

Configuration with a difficult hardware can be different story. This includes X. Therefore proceed step by step. Then each step you take is a success.


Crivens said:


> You may as well ask the IT department. If they are worth a tiny bit, they by now already know of your attempts and problems.


Crivens is right. Can you try it from home? In best case with a spare ancient PC or a spare disk in the current PC. Then you might have more time and everything is under your control. And take some time.


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## whaletosh (Mar 9, 2016)

OK, OK, the problem was related to the network connection. For some unexplained reason it is working today. I have FreeBSD installed, xorg installed and running fine, and Xfce4 installed and running. There are still some kinks to work out in the Xfce4 installation, such as when going to the log out screen, logging out is the only option the rest are dimmed out such as shutdown and reboot.  The main stumbling block for me is after I installed xdm and configured the system to use it's gui login I can't log in. I type my user name and password, the screen goes blank for a second, then goes back to the xdm login screen. I am certain that there must be something wrong in my ~/.xsession or ~./xinitrc files. I was able start Xfce4 at the CLI with `startx` before the installation of XDM. I was able to reboot, go into single user mode, remount the / filesystem as writable, and use vi(1) to edit the rc.conf and ttys files in /etc. Now I am back to starting with a CLI login and can start Xfce4 again from the CLI with `startx`.

At this point I could use some help:

Figuring out why the the XDM GUI login doesn't work. It is the most pressing issue.

My ~./xinitrc file:


```
exec /usr/local/bin/startxfce4  --with-ck-launch
```


My ~./.xsession file:


```
#!bin/sh
exec /usr/bin/startxfce4  --with-ck-launch
```

Both files are set as executable.

I know I need to make some adjustments in the /etc/rc.conf and /etc/ttys files. In the rc.conf file I added "xdm enable="YES", which is currently commented out.  In the ttys file I changed the line "ttyv8 "usr/local/bin/xdm  --nodaemon" xterm off secure" to "ytyv8 "usr/local/bin/xdm  --nodaemon" xterm on secure" ; but changed it back.


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## drhowarddrfine (Mar 9, 2016)

whaletosh Now you are off topic in the off topic forum. If you want technical answers, ask your question in the appropriate subforum.


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## tobik@ (Mar 9, 2016)

whaletosh said:


> My ~./xinitrc file:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


The path to `startxfce4` in ~/.xsession is wrong.


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## tankist02 (Mar 9, 2016)

My personal favorite site to help configure FreeBSD desktop is Cooltrainer guide. Though later FreeBSD versions may not require to run X -configure. Recent xorg can auto-configure itself.


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## yukiteruamano (Mar 10, 2016)

I use .xinitrc without login manager (XDM or SLIM), only use startx(1) command and run.

Only put in .xinitrc this line:


```
exec /usr/local/bin/startxfce4 --with-ck-launch
```


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## jrm@ (Mar 10, 2016)

If you run X via startx, someone who walks up to your desk and manages to kill your X session or switch to virtual terminals gets a shell with your account logged in.  Starting X via XDM (or whatever login manager you prefer) prevents this.

whaletosh, have you looked at the XDM configuration files in /usr/local/lib/X11/xdm?  xdm(1) is long, but well documented.


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## sidetone (Mar 10, 2016)

I wrote this... http://freebsdwiki.net/index.php/Desktop,_light_setup#XDM


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## protocelt (Mar 10, 2016)

jrm said:


> If you run X via startx, someone who walks up to your desk and manages to kill your X session or switch to virtual terminals gets a shell with your account logged in. Starting X via XDM (or whatever login manager you prefer) prevents this.


 You could also instead use security/vlock as another option.


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## fnoyanisi (Mar 10, 2016)

x11/slim is yet another login manager you may want to use.

You might have already checked it, but FreeBSD Handbook is most of the times the only thing you would need to get your system up and running.


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## Crivens (Mar 10, 2016)

whaletosh said:


> OK, OK, the problem was related to the network connection.


Hmm, let's say I have a fiver here saying that at least one of your admins has been reading this thread? Any takers?


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## UnixRocks (Mar 10, 2016)

jrm said:


> If you run X via startx, someone who walks up to your desk and manages to kill your X session or switch to virtual terminals gets a shell with your account logged in.


I do not like *DM login screens. I use `startxfce4 && exit`. No shell when X exits.

Added later: Correction, I use `startxfce4;exit`. I used to use the && but realized that only works if X exits cleanly.


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## yukiteruamano (Mar 11, 2016)

jrm, nobody in my house uses FreeBSD or Linux, nobody know work in a terminal, they love Windows. In my work, I use a DM.


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## Crivens (Mar 11, 2016)

UnixRocks said:


> I do not like *DM login screens. I use `startxfce4 && exit`. No shell when X exits.
> 
> Added later: Correction, I use `startxfce4;exit`. I used to use the && but realized that only works if X exits cleanly.


How about going to the VT and use Ctrl-Z? Bingo, there is your shell. And I can even put it back in place when I'm done with my evil.


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## tobik@ (Mar 11, 2016)

Better use `startxfce4 & ; exit` which exits the shell immediately.


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## Maxnix (Mar 11, 2016)

UnixRocks,


UnixRocks said:


> I do not like *DM login screens. I use `startxfce4 && exit`. No shell when X exits.
> 
> Added later: Correction, I use `startxfce4;exit`. I used to use the && but realized that only works if X exits cleanly.



That's because "&&" stands for the boolean AND operator.  Instead ";" acts like a "separator" of commands, regardless of the previous exit status.

tobik,


tobik said:


> Better use `startxfce4 & ; exit` which exits the shell immediately.


shouldn't him use `[B]nohup[/B] startxfce4 & ; exit` instead? If I try doing a thing like that without nohup my shell complains about "still running" jobs.


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## tobik@ (Mar 11, 2016)

Maxnix said:


> shouldn't him use `[B]nohup[/B] startxfce4 & ; exit` instead? If I try doing a thing like that without nohup my shell complains about "still running" jobs.


This probably depends on you shell. I only tried it with csh(1).


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## UnixRocks (Mar 11, 2016)

Crivens said:


> How about going to the VT and use Ctrl-Z? Bingo, there is your shell. And I can even put it back in place when I'm done with my evil.


Ah! *Good* point. I reckon I will be incorporating some of these other good ideas as to how better to handle that. Looks like some experimentation is in order.


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## Beast13 (May 4, 2017)

Dies_Irae said:


> From what I have read, I can hardly believe it



LOL !


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## Deleted member 9563 (May 4, 2017)

yukiteruamano said:


> nobody in my house uses FreeBSD or Linux, nobody know work in a terminal, they love Windows. In my work, I use a DM.



Too bad.


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